Am I going to take the loss?
dib
Posts: 311 ✭
I bought a coin for $150 on ebay, and I never got the package. The problem is that USPS marked it as "Delivered", but they admitted to me that they had lost the package. They told me they marked it as "Delivered" because I also had a different package get delivered the same day, and they made a technical error that said both packages were delivered. (Something like that, the lady was having a very hard time explaining the weird situation to me).
I opened a case on ebay (The seller didn't do anything wrong, but it needs to be the seller who takes responsibility for the USPS problem, not the buyer). He didn't insure the package, but he can be the one who tries to file a claim again the USPS or whatever he wants to do. The seller won't budge on refunding me, so ebay is going to get involved sometime soon.
I asked the post office to change the tracking info to say something else other than "Delivered" because it was never delivered. The lady said she didn't know how, but would figure it out.... but as of now it still says "Delivered". I'm going to call back today and try to find someone working there who knows how to change the tracking info.
I've had a terribly unlucky last week, and this situation was the least stressful out of my other problems. I don't feel my luck will be changing this week, so I'll be surprised if I don't take a loss on this one.
I opened a case on ebay (The seller didn't do anything wrong, but it needs to be the seller who takes responsibility for the USPS problem, not the buyer). He didn't insure the package, but he can be the one who tries to file a claim again the USPS or whatever he wants to do. The seller won't budge on refunding me, so ebay is going to get involved sometime soon.
I asked the post office to change the tracking info to say something else other than "Delivered" because it was never delivered. The lady said she didn't know how, but would figure it out.... but as of now it still says "Delivered". I'm going to call back today and try to find someone working there who knows how to change the tracking info.
I've had a terribly unlucky last week, and this situation was the least stressful out of my other problems. I don't feel my luck will be changing this week, so I'll be surprised if I don't take a loss on this one.
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I'm going to ask for 50% refund, but that's just because I feel bad for the seller. If I wanted to fight it for the full value I'd probably eventually win (and so could you) but for a package of relatively little value I'm not going to bother.
In your case, if it shows delivered I think you are out of luck. eBay/PayPal rely on what they can see online in the tracking history.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
If the USPS records the package as delivered, that is the event eBay recognizes.
It's not a perfect system, but those are the rules.
<< <i>If I were the seller (I'm not) and the package were marked as "delivered" I would refuse to make any refund... >>
Sometimes you don't have a choice
<< <i>What I'm not understanding is how it can be scanned Delivered if the package with bar code are not in hand to be scanned. >>
I think it means they scanned it but they lost it or delivered to a different address. Either a mistake where they delivered to the wrong address or they took a shortcut and scanned it before actual delivery. I think you're at the mercy of whoever got it either keeping it or returning it.
I had a signature confirmation package that marked delivered and I never received it. Unfortunately, I signed the signature waiver when delivering any letter/package to my mail box.
Who will trust me in this world that I never received this package......
Latin American Collection
No judgment on the OP, but imagine if the seller posted the same type of message claiming the buyer was delivered the coin according to USPS and now wants a refund for a coin that he/she claims was not delivered. Would the comments on the board be empathetic to the buyer or seller?
BTW ... you left off one option ... eBay refunds your money but does not take it away from the seller. I can see that being an option for lower value items where eBay believes the item was lost and decides to hold neither party financially liable in order to maintain good relationships. Okay ... that may be a fantasy, but it sounded good!
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Buyer claims he received an empty package, and the item weighed about 2 pounds, shipped in a priority mail small flat rate box.
Since I had another one, I asked the buyer if he wanted it, and he said yes.
I asked for pictures of the packaging, as my experience has been, if the package is empty, the post office will tag it en route. He buyer stated he could not take pictures.
After the second item was shipped, he emailed and stated he did not want the second item after all, and even denied asking for it.
He opened a case for non delivery. I sent the entire message train to ebay.
They had him return the original package. It was intact, but had a nice slit (razor blade) along a seam, and then taped over with a similar but different tape than I use.
He did not want the second item, and ebay sent him a mailer to return it.
Ebay then refunded his money, but did not take any money from my account. It appears ebay ate the cost on the item, which was about $45.
My ebay rating is +2800, his was +700, and he had left positive feedback on 35+ items in the last 3 months.
Related to this, I am on good terms with the person who normally delivers my mail. Cold water on hot days, etc. He will tag packages with post office labels showing defects, that he deems "odd", like underweight, empty, something protruding, or appears to have been opened, or he can hear the sound of something broken inside, etc. This has REALLY helped for the very few issues I have had on received packages. Almost every problem was due to poor packaging on the part of the sender.
<< <i>BTW ... you left off one option ... eBay refunds your money but does not take it away from the seller. I can see that being an option for lower value items where eBay believes the item was lost and decides to hold neither party financially liable in order to maintain good relationships. Okay ... that may be a fantasy, but it sounded good! >>
Not a fantasy...it has happened before. If you are able to obtain written documentations of what you posted regarding the PO making an error, that also might help. Otherwise, get the postal inspector involved.
I then left neutral feedback lauding the seller's item description and secure packaging but expressing disappointment at being abandoned. Seller had feedback removed successfully. The seller went on her merry way as if nothing happened despite neglecting the post-sale service that most retailers would provide.
The tracking had shown it as "delivered" starting on May 1st. Kept checking my PO Box and it was never there.
Asked the lady at the counter about it yesterday and she said that just because my tracking said delivered, their internal didn't, so it hadn't arrived. I said "could you look around and check to see if it is lying on a shelf back there somewhere and just hasn't been put in my box?"
When she took the time to look...lo and behold there it was!
She had no explaination for how it could have happened and said "good thing you asked..."
Got to love the PO...
QN
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Same thing happened to me.
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You might be screwed. Also, how can someone at USPS say they lost the package but they don't know how to change the system? Go down there and have them sign a letter saying they did not in fact deliver it. That whole story is also confusing.
Here is a whole bunch of stuff about this exact situation. eBay Community
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I know it sucks, it has happened to everyone here. You aren't unlucky, it is merely the statistical probabilities playing out.
Tyler
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>those who say this is the sellers problem please provide your ebay ID so I can add you to the blocked list, the seller should not be punished for negligence of the shipper no matter what ebay or anyone else believes. >>
It was not delivered.
The seller is not responsible. The USPS is responsible. They admitted they lost the package, but I don't know how they reimburse a package if it was not insured.
The seller would need to get involved to try to resolve the situation.
Box of 20
<< <i>The problem is that USPS marked it as "Delivered", but they admitted to me that they had lost the package. They told me they marked it as "Delivered" because I also had a different package get delivered the same day, and they made a technical error that said both packages were delivered. (Something like that, the lady was having a very hard time explaining the weird situation to me).
It was not delivered.
The seller is not responsible. The USPS is responsible. They admitted they lost the package, but I don't know how they reimburse a package if it was not insured.
The seller would need to get involved to try to resolve the situation. >>
Assuming the seller lives out of state, how do you propose he get's involved, other than being sympathetic? It's up to the buyer to raise holly he-l by talking to the post master or better yet, file a stolen item report with the Postal Inspector.
<< <i>The problem is that USPS marked it as "Delivered", but they admitted to me that they had lost the package. They told me they marked it as "Delivered" because I also had a different package get delivered the same day, and they made a technical error that said both packages were delivered. (Something like that, the lady was having a very hard time explaining the weird situation to me).
It was not delivered.
The seller is not responsible.The USPS is responsible. They admitted they lost the package, but I don't know how they reimburse a package if it was not insured.
The seller would need to get involved to try to resolve the situation. >>
The claimant/seller would need to get the PostMaster of the receiving PO to go to bat for them. Possibly by signing an affidavit of fault so that the seller could include it with his claim.
Doesn't seem to me that it would be too hard to "change" a delivery status in our technologically advanced society. If the USPS has admitted it wasn't delivered, then get a written statement from the Postmaster if you need to. Get it notarized if that helps. It's absurd to me that nothing can be done if they entered "delivered" by mistake.
I went through something similar back in November when the USPS said a $45 boxed part was delivered to me. It wasn't. Who knows what the temp driver on that Saturday did with the item. But they put it in the system as "delivered" so that was that. I made a stink with both the shipper and my C/C company. I was reimbursed. The part never did show up. Get a PO box (preferably in a different town) as it will ensure delivery and keep nosy people from seeing any numismatic items being delivered to your home.
Box of 20
<< <i>I had an incident where a lady bought an item, and I shipped it ... to the wrong address, why ? because she had moved and never updated her paypal info, so it was delivered to NY and she now lived in AZ. she filed an item not received claim as she believed I should refund her money because she never got the item. people have become complacent with the entitlement mentality. if the shipper loses it how can you (with a clear conscience) put the blame on the seller ? or is that a matter of integrity ? >>
In this case the shipper/USPS sells insurance to indemnify themselves against negligence/loss/theft/etc. If the seller fails to avail themself of the service, the onus of loss is on them. As we have seen time and again insurance will not cover every situation.
That person is known to the post office.
It doesn't just get marked delivered out of thin air.
That person and therefore the post office is responsible in my mind.
Take names at the post office and threaten them with legal action.
Let them think you are a nut, in fact tell them that.
Best of luck.
I'll drive to the PO today and get some written evidence from them saying that they never delivered it, and are too incompetent to figure out how to change the tracking information.
I want to stay on relatively good terms with my PO because I have to go there fairly often. Haha I'm not sure that forcing them to write and sign a paper that says they lost my package and lied about it being delivered will go over too well... but it's either that or I take a $150 loss for their negligence.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>Seller had feedback removed successfully. The seller went on her merry way as if nothing happened despite neglecting the post-sale service that most retailers would provide. >>
Honestly I can't understand why anyone would consider this the sellers problem. With the number of scammers on ebay you have to be able to rely on something, and if PS/USPS says delivered I'd take their word for it over some unknown buyer on ebay. I don't know of any retailers that would do anything else. Who do you know that will try to track down a package that UPS says was delivered? What should they do, go to the UPS sorting facility and look through all the mail?
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<< <i>Your local postmaster has a supervisor too. Ensure you get their name and number if your the local branch is not helpful. Frankly, I can't even believe they did admit it was undelivered and the tracking is impossible too change. And this is 2015! >>
I'll make sure to do that also. The lady I talked to tried as hard as possible to never say the word "lost". She used phrases like "We can't seem to find the package", "We had a problem with this package", and "I keep hoping it turns up".
Your item is out there…. somewhere. The postal service screwed up. Pity we sellers must assume full responsibility with irresponsible agents/ glitches in the system, all in between us and our customer.
But that's the nature of the E-Beast
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Contact the Inspector Generals office it's their job in cases of theft or incompetence to solve the problem.
<< <i>
<< <i>Your local postmaster has a supervisor too. Ensure you get their name and number if your the local branch is not helpful. Frankly, I can't even believe they did admit it was undelivered and the tracking is impossible too change. And this is 2015! >>
I'll make sure to do that also. The lady I talked to tried as hard as possible to never say the word "lost". She used phrases like "We can't seem to find the package", "We had a problem with this package", and "I keep hoping it turns up". >>
It's not lost, it's not stolen, it's not missing. It's JUST NOT THERE!
<< <i>Just picked up a package from the PO yesterday...
The tracking had shown it as "delivered" starting on May 1st. Kept checking my PO Box and it was never there.
Asked the lady at the counter about it yesterday and she said that just because my tracking said delivered, their internal didn't, so it hadn't arrived. I said "could you look around and check to see if it is lying on a shelf back there somewhere and just hasn't been put in my box?"
When she took the time to look...lo and behold there it was!
She had no explaination for how it could have happened and said "good thing you asked..."
Got to love the PO...
QN >>
This happened to me so many times I finally closed my PO Box in disgust. A few times a package would show delivered and I would not even get a slip in the box telling me the parcel was there, other times I'd get the slip but the parcel was misplaced. Complaints to the local postmaster went ignored. Toward the end I would have to walk in with the tracking printed out, hand it to the clerk to prove it was in the building, then hope they could figure out where they had left the package.
What made matters worse is that I changed jobs last January, so the post office was no longer local to my office. I would arrange my entire commute around stopping at the PO to pick up packages that showed as delivered, only to leave empty handed. I am on currently a waiting list for a new box local to my house.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
I got home and checked out the tracking info on my computer, and it's not straight forward. The tracking info on the USPS website is exactly the same as before, but the tracking info on ebay has one more additional line of text. The ebay info still says it was delivered on April 30th, but 2 lines down it says "ARRIVAL AT UNIT" on May 11th. Not sure if that's enough evidence, but I hope it's enough for ebay to believe it's "more probable than not" that I never received the package.
They also asked what was in the package and how much it cost, so I told them it was a coin I bought for $150. Really was hoping they weren't going to ask me about it... whatever though.
I had a signature confirmation pink slip I gave to the clerk and she said "Didn't I just give these to you?" which of course she didn't.
But at least she remembered who she gave them do and went to their house and retrieved them.
Once I took a group of packages home and when I was opening them I saw this nice large $1 note. The digits on the PO box # were reversed.
When I took it back to the post office and showed her what was in it she asked "Why did you open it if it wasn't addressed to you?"
I felt like saying "because you put it in my PO box moron", but I left out the moron part.
Still at my Post Office it seems they can get the mail to the post office, but the box holders have to sort it out themselves.
Your package probably went to another PO box and they decided to keep it as a nice gift (from you, courtesy of the USPS)
<< <i>This could go either way... will be a tricky - and lengthy - path to travel. Good luck...Cheers, RickO >>
Begin with Postmaster. They WILL help.
I had a pkg of silver dollars lost and they were insured but the PO said they would need PROOF of the cost of EACH of the 1200 coins.
I explained how a coin shop worked but they got adamant.
Another call to my House Representative cured the problem immediately.