OK...read the NJ pleading and it appears to be a well drafted complaint for Copyright Infringement and False Designation (both federal question claims), and Libel per se (or defamation per se). Law firm is Blank, Rome, and they are big and very good. The complaint is straightforward and simple. I don't intend to post the complaint but if you pm me, I'll see if I can forward.
The other referenced complaint is from federal court in Arizona against what appears to be the owners or operators of the Ripoff Report. These claims are similar to the first two claims (federal question claims) in the NJ suit. But the Arizona suit is a little trickier. Operators of websites and such hosting sites typically defend their actions on a number of grounds which amount to something like...this is a hosting service and we aren't responsible for content. Those defenses often work on defamation claims, which is probably why no defamation claim has been made. But this is a copyright infringement claim, so it remains to be seen whether this Arizona complaint will withstand scrutiny. My own view is that I hope it does.
I wonder if there is a UDAP claim in there somewhere -- attorneys fees and treble damages. The claim protects consumers, so that may be a hurdle, but there may be case law on that.
Yep! Thought the name sounded familiar. I had a bad experience with the perp back in 2009.
I am glad that Legend is playing hard-ball with this guy. There must be repercussions for anonymous, malicious behavior that could cause financial harm to any person or organization. What he (allegedly) did was not funny in the least bit. Makes me sick. Everyone here should stop and think how they would feel if the same thing happened to them.
Legend, best of luck with your lawsuit! I hope the positive results get posted (all names included) in Coin World and Numismatic News, as well as all other hobby publications.
I am glad that Legend is playing hard-ball with this guy. There must be repercussions for anonymous, malicious behavior that could cause financial harm to any person or organization. What he (allegedly) did was not funny in the least bit. Makes me sick. Everyone here should stop and think how they would feel if the same thing happened to them.
Legend, best of luck with your lawsuit! I hope the positive results get posted (all names included) in Coin World and Numismatic News, as well as all other hobby publications. >>
When we were dealing with him, I believe he was in Minn., or some State nearby.
He was buying error coins from us, but he kept on changing his mind, returning coins, etc. - not worth all the hassle he was putting us thru.
We finally just stopped playing with him.
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
To us West Coasters, if it's East of the Rockies, it's the same...
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
This litigation has interested me from the start. I'm certainly not a lawyer but it sure seems an open and shut case insofar as libel is concerned. As far as defamation goes however, that might be considerably harder to establish. Laura/Legend would have to show tangible proof that they lost business, and that said loss was solely based on this ripoff report posting... and frankly I don't see that happening. Maybe I'm wrong.. but let's be honest...it's highly doubtful they lost any business from this whatsoever. Upscale clients by and large aren't viewers of a low end site like Ripoff Report and even if they did see that posting, a) wouldn't put much if any stock in it in the first place to be sure and b)if they had any concerns, have the capabilities to verify or disprove the claims therein very quickly.
In short I understand Laura wanting to nip this in the bud but frankly I don't see this having damaged her or Legend...if anything it's had the opposite effect. The only winners here are going to be the lawyers involved.
To us West Coasters, if it's East of the Rockies, it's the same... >>
Watch it, Fred! I'm from Michigan!
Minnesota is on the other side of the Missipasippi River, where it's a lot colder!!!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Maybe I missed it but why did he have such animosity toward Laura?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I don't think any dealer or collector would like to be subject to this.
I can see Legend losing out on a lot of first sales in the 4 figure range and lifetime sales in the 5 figure range per lost customer when collectors run across this.
I don't think any dealer or collector would like to be subject to this.
I can see Legend losing out on a lot of first sales in the 4 figure range and lifetime sales in the 5 figure range per lost customer when collectors run across this. >>
I agree 100% although I'm not sure that it can be removed by Paul. I think if it can be removed at all it would have to be from the company who owns the site. Also, anytime I hear the claims of racketeering and money laundering, combined with a location in New Jersey…I automatically think trouble. Paul should have to come out of pocket for his alleged actions and the www.ripoffreport.com slander should be erased or updated by the owners of the site explaining the truth of this matter.
Funny now your make accusations because I don't agree with you. I could care less about the situation. Not every one has to agree with a multimillionaire coin dealer who is banned from posting on this forum. I think she is a genus by using this to market her company
<< <i>Funny now your make accusations because I don't agree with you. I could care less about the situation. Not every one has to agree with a multimillionaire coin dealer who is banned from posting on this forum. I think she is a genus by using this to market her company >>
If you are a nobody with nothing, then RipOff report wouldn't bother you.
IIRC in her last Hot Topics report she addressed this issue.
"<< UPDATE: the other issue, that knucklehead who thought he'd have some fun with us on that ill gotten extortionist web site-The Rip Off Report is awaiting a judges decision for his fate. He has been busted and caught red handed badly-and he knows it. Unfortunately, the legal system moves very slow on cases like this. He had offered to settle, but he meant so much harm to me, Legend, and my partners-NO WAY! ">>
RipOffReport.com is a site that allows anyone to post true or false allegations about anyone and companies. Once on the site, the review never goes away. It shows up high when you google that person or company. So this guy posts allegations against Sperber, then he posts as Laura herself on the site rebutting the allegations with her picture, she hires lawyers, finds out who it was, and sues. Once she wins, she can then petition google to remove the site from search results of her name.
<< <i>RipOffReport.com is a site that allows anyone to post true or false allegations about anyone and companies. Once on the site, the review never goes away. It shows up high when you google that person or company. So this guy posts allegations against Sperber, then he posts as Laura herself on the site rebutting the allegations with her picture, she hires lawyers, finds out who it was, and sues. Once she wins, she can then petition google to remove the site from search results of her name. >>
She also could have just done that arbitration thing, thrown $2k at it and made the report go away long ago (and still could have sued the guy for libel regardless). That way the report's gone and upon winning a suit she would still get the $2k back from this nimrod along with her pound of flesh (obviously the main goal here, let's be real) and any punitive damages the court sees fit to throw in for the libelous remarks. And yes, I understand the argument about the $2k being pseudo-extortion by Ripoff Report... but $2k now rather than racking up $$$$$ in legal fees to do the same thing (which I might add hasn't been done yet; the report's still viewable) seems a little more efficient to me ...if my primary goal is to remove the source of potential damage to my firm's reputation. Just saying.
<< <i>I'm not up on this story.. can someone give me a cliff note version? >>
I found this in the public record but the information is older (I think from June 2013) ... It's excepted below ...
Please note that this is an ongoing court case and nothing has been settled yet (apparently) ... so it's all just allegations at this point -- with a final court ruling still pending.
On September 24, 2012, an anonymous user posted about Plaintiff on the Ripoff Report website, www.ripoffreport.com, accusing her of having been indicted on charges of racketeering and money laundering. Plaintiff denies having ever been accused or convicted of any crimes.
Plaintiff alleges further that on October 3 and October 5, 2012, a user impersonating Plaintiff via Plaintiff's copyrighted photo replied to the above accusations with statements to the effect that Plaintiff had not "been convicted recently of any crimes" and would be "posting documents . . . showing that all criminal charges were settled via plea [bargain]."
Plaintiff objects to both the allegedly defamatory content of the statements and the use of her name and identity to suggest use, endorsement, or approval of the Ripoff Report website.
Plaintiff alleges that her own investigations have revealed Defendant to be responsible for both the original defamatory report and the subsequent replies impersonating Plaintiff.
Moving to the more difficult task of demonstrating that Defendant intentionally targeted the forum, Plaintiff provides evidence that Defendant voluntarily transacted twice with Plaintiff's business to purchase rare coins: once in August 2011 and again in September 2012. The latter transaction was canceled due to failure to receive payment, and, shortly thereafter, the first posting on Ripoff Report appeared. Plaintiff theorizes that the canceled transaction was the impetus for Defendant's ensuing conduct.
<< <i>Funny now your make accusations because I don't agree with you. I could care less about the situation. Not every one has to agree with a multimillionaire coin dealer who is banned from posting on this forum. I think she is a genus by using this to market her company >>
<< <i>Funny now your make accusations because I don't agree with you. I could care less about the situation. Not every one has to agree with a multimillionaire coin dealer who is banned from posting on this forum. I think she is a genus by using this to market her company >>
<< <i>Funny now your make accusations because I don't agree with you. I could care less about the situation. Not every one has to agree with a multimillionaire coin dealer who is banned from posting on this forum. I think she is a genus by using this to market her company >>
I want to ask a question but I do not really want to upset anyone...
Why would this person say something like this? Where did he come up with this? It is 100% made up? Have there EVER been rumors like this circulated? Is this something that is whispered about ? Has LS or Legend EVER been associated with what is being said?
Just wondering because it seems this person thinks he knows something... He seems very confident about it and it seems like a pretty fantastic story to just be made up out of the blue....
If anyone feels my wording is accusatory or alleging something please let me know so I can clean up the wording. I am not insinuating anything...
<< <i>I want to ask a question but I do not really want to upset anyone...
Why would this person say something like this? Where did he come up with this? It is 100% made up? Have there EVER been rumors like this circulated? Is this something that is whispered about ? Has LS or Legend EVER been associated with what is being said?
Just wondering because it seems this person thinks he knows something... He seems very confident about it and it seems like a pretty fantastic story to just be made up out of the blue....
If anyone feels my wording is accusatory or alleging something please let me know so I can clean up the wording. I am not insinuating anything...
JL >>
He's 100% incorrect. I have had several dealings with Paul Elwell myself. I wish I could say I never heard of him, but sadly that is not the case. Karma.... is all I can say.
<< <i>I want to ask a question but I do not really want to upset anyone...
Why would this person say something like this? Where did he come up with this? It is 100% made up? Have there EVER been rumors like this circulated? Is this something that is whispered about ? Has LS or Legend EVER been associated with what is being said?
Just wondering because it seems this person thinks he knows something... He seems very confident about it and it seems like a pretty fantastic story to just be made up out of the blue....
If anyone feels my wording is accusatory or alleging something please let me know so I can clean up the wording. I am not insinuating anything...
JL >>
Just the fact that you have to wonder such a thing is why there was no settlement...
<< <i>Paraphrasing Teddy Roosevelt: millions on defense, but not one penny on tribute. >>
A variation of that phrase was used on hard times tokens long before TR was born and referred to the Barbary pirates attacking American shipping. It is usually attributed to Thomas Jefferson.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Hey, JMO... Putting posts on the internet, hiding behind a keyboard.... Then pretending to be the person you are attacking, again, hiding.... The guy is a scumbag and deserves to get nailed! JMHO but the truth.
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Comments
The other referenced complaint is from federal court in Arizona against what appears to be the owners or operators of the Ripoff Report. These claims are similar to the first two claims (federal question claims) in the NJ suit. But the Arizona suit is a little trickier. Operators of websites and such hosting sites typically defend their actions on a number of grounds which amount to something like...this is a hosting service and we aren't responsible for content. Those defenses often work on defamation claims, which is probably why no defamation claim has been made. But this is a copyright infringement claim, so it remains to be seen whether this Arizona complaint will withstand scrutiny. My own view is that I hope it does.
Tom
.... remember when words were cheap and so were coins ? Times sure have changed, but the pen is still mightier than the sword.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
merse
I am glad that Legend is playing hard-ball with this guy. There must be repercussions for anonymous, malicious behavior that could cause financial harm to any person or organization. What he (allegedly) did was not funny in the least bit. Makes me sick. Everyone here should stop and think how they would feel if the same thing happened to them.
Legend, best of luck with your lawsuit! I hope the positive results get posted (all names included) in Coin World and Numismatic News, as well as all other hobby publications.
Edited first line to add "perp
<< <i>
I am glad that Legend is playing hard-ball with this guy. There must be repercussions for anonymous, malicious behavior that could cause financial harm to any person or organization. What he (allegedly) did was not funny in the least bit. Makes me sick. Everyone here should stop and think how they would feel if the same thing happened to them.
Legend, best of luck with your lawsuit! I hope the positive results get posted (all names included) in Coin World and Numismatic News, as well as all other hobby publications. >>
+1
Rob
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Successful Purchases from: Manorcourtman, Meltdown
I hope the perp gets his hide nailed to the wall.
Howland Wood winner 2005-2007
Candidate for the ANA Board of Governors 2013-2015
Here is a case where a couple that filed a report on Ripoff Report and ended up with a fine and a lower credit rating.
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
Court documents
Registry set
Erik
I believe he was in Minn., or some
State nearby.
He was buying error coins from us,
but he kept on changing his mind,
returning coins, etc. - not worth
all the hassle he was putting us thru.
We finally just stopped playing with him.
Latin American Collection
<< <i>He is in Mattawan Michigan. I have a home there and was shocked to see this small town listed next to his name. >>
thanks...this confirms that it's not the guy who was on Jay Leno...the guy from Boston with the same name
Erik
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
To us West Coasters, if it's
East of the Rockies, it's the
same...
As far as defamation goes however, that might be considerably harder to establish.
Laura/Legend would have to show tangible proof that they lost business, and that said loss was solely based on this ripoff report posting... and frankly I don't see that happening.
Maybe I'm wrong.. but let's be honest...it's highly doubtful they lost any business from this whatsoever. Upscale clients by and large aren't viewers of a low end site like Ripoff Report and even if they did see that posting, a) wouldn't put much if any stock in it in the first place to be sure and b)if they had any concerns, have the capabilities to verify or disprove the claims therein very quickly.
In short I understand Laura wanting to nip this in the bud but frankly I don't see this having damaged her or Legend...if anything it's had the opposite effect.
The only winners here are going to be the lawyers involved.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Minn/Michigan
To us West Coasters, if it's
East of the Rockies, it's the
same... >>
Watch it, Fred! I'm from Michigan!
Minnesota is on the other side of the Missipasippi River, where it's a lot colder!!!
<< <i>I think the only thing damaged was her ego >>
Dude,
Are you ever going to not be so petty?
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I think the only thing damaged was her ego >>
Google her and this is what you get
#2 is the Ripoff Report. So I would say she has a gripe
I don't think any dealer or collector would like to be subject to this.
I can see Legend losing out on a lot of first sales in the 4 figure range and lifetime sales in the 5 figure range per lost customer when collectors run across this.
<< <i>Paul should own up and remove this IMO.
I don't think any dealer or collector would like to be subject to this.
I can see Legend losing out on a lot of first sales in the 4 figure range and lifetime sales in the 5 figure range per lost customer when collectors run across this. >>
I agree 100% although I'm not sure that it can be removed by Paul. I think if it can be removed at all it would have to be from the company who owns the site. Also, anytime I hear the claims of racketeering and money laundering, combined with a location in New Jersey…I automatically think trouble. Paul should have to come out of pocket for his alleged actions and the www.ripoffreport.com slander should be erased or updated by the owners of the site explaining the truth of this matter.
Erik
<< <i>Funny now your make accusations because I don't agree with you. I could care less about the situation. Not every one has to agree with a multimillionaire coin dealer who is banned from posting on this forum. I think she is a genus by using this to market her company >>
If you are a nobody with nothing, then RipOff report wouldn't bother you.
<< <i>I haven't seen any update since last August, however, both sides have made motions.
Court documents
Registry set >>
IIRC in her last Hot Topics report she addressed this issue.
"<< UPDATE: the other issue, that knucklehead who thought he'd have some fun with us on that ill gotten extortionist web site-The Rip Off Report is awaiting a judges decision for his fate. He has been busted and caught red handed badly-and he knows it. Unfortunately, the legal system moves very slow on cases like this. He had offered to settle, but he meant so much harm to me, Legend, and my partners-NO WAY! ">>
<< <i>RipOffReport.com is a site that allows anyone to post true or false allegations about anyone and companies. Once on the site, the review never goes away. It shows up high when you google that person or company. So this guy posts allegations against Sperber, then he posts as Laura herself on the site rebutting the allegations with her picture, she hires lawyers, finds out who it was, and sues. Once she wins, she can then petition google to remove the site from search results of her name. >>
She also could have just done that arbitration thing, thrown $2k at it and made the report go away long ago (and still could have sued the guy for libel regardless). That way the report's gone and upon winning a suit she would still get the $2k back from this nimrod along with her pound of flesh (obviously the main goal here, let's be real) and any punitive damages the court sees fit to throw in for the libelous remarks. And yes, I understand the argument about the $2k being pseudo-extortion by Ripoff Report... but $2k now rather than racking up $$$$$ in legal fees to do the same thing (which I might add hasn't been done yet; the report's still viewable) seems a little more efficient to me ...if my primary goal is to remove the source of potential damage to my firm's reputation. Just saying.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>I'm not up on this story.. can someone give me a cliff note version? >>
I found this in the public record but the information is older (I think from June 2013) ... It's excepted below ...
Please note that this is an ongoing court case and nothing has been settled yet (apparently) ... so it's all just allegations at this point -- with a final court ruling still pending.
On September 24, 2012, an anonymous user posted about Plaintiff on the Ripoff Report website, www.ripoffreport.com, accusing her of having been indicted on charges of racketeering and money laundering.
Plaintiff denies having ever been accused or convicted of any crimes.
Plaintiff alleges further that on October 3 and October 5, 2012, a user impersonating Plaintiff via Plaintiff's copyrighted photo replied to the above accusations with statements to the effect that Plaintiff had not "been convicted recently of any crimes" and would be "posting documents . . . showing that all criminal charges were settled via plea [bargain]."
Plaintiff objects to both the allegedly defamatory content of the statements and the use of her name and identity to suggest use, endorsement, or approval of the Ripoff Report website.
Plaintiff alleges that her own investigations have revealed Defendant to be responsible for both the original defamatory report and the subsequent replies impersonating Plaintiff.
Moving to the more difficult task of demonstrating that Defendant intentionally targeted the forum, Plaintiff provides evidence that Defendant voluntarily transacted twice with Plaintiff's business to purchase rare coins: once in August 2011 and again in September 2012. The latter transaction was canceled due to failure to receive payment, and, shortly thereafter, the first posting on Ripoff Report appeared. Plaintiff theorizes that the canceled transaction was the impetus for Defendant's ensuing conduct.
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
<< <i>Funny now your make accusations because I don't agree with you. I could care less about the situation. Not every one has to agree with a multimillionaire coin dealer who is banned from posting on this forum. I think she is a genus by using this to market her company >>
Wow - channeling your inner Laura?
<< <i>
<< <i>Funny now your make accusations because I don't agree with you. I could care less about the situation. Not every one has to agree with a multimillionaire coin dealer who is banned from posting on this forum. I think she is a genus by using this to market her company >>
Wow - channeling your inner Laura? >>
Hilarious
Latin American Collection
<< <i> I think she is a genus by using this to market her company >>
Wow, I knew she was important, but now she's apparently an entire group of species unto herself!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Funny now your make accusations because I don't agree with you. I could care less about the situation. Not every one has to agree with a multimillionaire coin dealer who is banned from posting on this forum. I think she is a genus by using this to market her company >>
Wow - channeling your inner Laura? >>
Hilarious >>
Why would this person say something like this? Where did he come up with this? It is 100% made up? Have there EVER been rumors like this circulated? Is this something that is whispered about ? Has LS or Legend EVER been associated with what is being said?
Just wondering because it seems this person thinks he knows something... He seems very confident about it and it seems like a pretty fantastic story to just be made up out of the blue....
If anyone feels my wording is accusatory or alleging something please let me know so I can clean up the wording. I am not insinuating anything...
JL
Maybe not insinuating, but probing with wonder.
I'll let the lawsuit speak for itself.
read this thread, it's not too long.
The nice thing about not settling..... the judgment and awards are always public record.
<< <i>I want to ask a question but I do not really want to upset anyone...
Why would this person say something like this? Where did he come up with this? It is 100% made up? Have there EVER been rumors like this circulated? Is this something that is whispered about ? Has LS or Legend EVER been associated with what is being said?
Just wondering because it seems this person thinks he knows something... He seems very confident about it and it seems like a pretty fantastic story to just be made up out of the blue....
If anyone feels my wording is accusatory or alleging something please let me know so I can clean up the wording. I am not insinuating anything...
JL >>
He's 100% incorrect. I have had several dealings with Paul Elwell myself. I wish I could say I never heard of him, but sadly that is not the case. Karma.... is all I can say.
<< <i>I want to ask a question but I do not really want to upset anyone...
Why would this person say something like this? Where did he come up with this? It is 100% made up? Have there EVER been rumors like this circulated? Is this something that is whispered about ? Has LS or Legend EVER been associated with what is being said?
Just wondering because it seems this person thinks he knows something... He seems very confident about it and it seems like a pretty fantastic story to just be made up out of the blue....
If anyone feels my wording is accusatory or alleging something please let me know so I can clean up the wording. I am not insinuating anything...
JL >>
Just the fact that you have to wonder such a thing is why there was no settlement...
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>Paraphrasing Teddy Roosevelt: millions on defense, but not one penny on tribute. >>
Teddy was fighting the Barbary pirates?
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>Paraphrasing Teddy Roosevelt: millions on defense, but not one penny on tribute. >>
A variation of that phrase was used on hard times tokens long before TR was born and referred to the Barbary pirates attacking American shipping. It is usually attributed to Thomas Jefferson.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Putting posts on the internet, hiding behind a keyboard....
Then pretending to be the person you are attacking, again, hiding....
The guy is a scumbag and deserves to get nailed!
JMHO but the truth.