<< <i>i vaugely remember the "reverend" jerry fallwell suing penthouse magazine for defamation over an article about fallwell's relationship with his mother... if something is damaging, it cant be laughable as well >>
That would depend on who it is laughable to. Like Mr Eureka says, most who are active in the hobby know Legend's reputation and would question this ripoff report. To many on this chatroom, the assertions were indeed laughable. However, to those who are more on the periphery, they may be all they need to not do business with Legend.
If I asserted to the FBI that you didn't pay your nanny tax, those who know you may think it laughable since you don't have a nanny. But those vetting you for that Cabinet level position may say it's just not worth the fight since the assertion was a matter of public record. So something can indeed be laughable from one perspective, but damaging from another.
It's not a bad joke- if anyone at Legend could prove that these comments or actions cost the form a substantial amount of money, whichever punk that did this could be held liable in a civil court, and would have to cough up staggering amounts in punitive damages.
That might be difficult considering there has been no shortage of Legend Market updates consistently stating since 2008 that Legend has been having record shows and monthly sales in even the worst of the market doldrums. Frankly, I've just been blown away by the consistent stream of positive news. So instead of consistent new monthly and annual sales records they would have had even bigger records? One might be able to argue that the publicity has boosted sales and directed more people towards them than might have occurred otherwise. I could see some liability if they weren't having banner years, year after year. What other major retailers (besides Heritage) are growing volume and profits over the past 4 years? And we can't include some of the bigger firms that might be doing this by mergers and acquistions (ie basic survival).
Can you elaborate on this: "That would depend on whether or not decisions made in late 2012 as a result of this posting affect 2012, 2013 and 2014's profits wouldn't you think?"
I would think that decisions made by existing customers would only be relevant if affirmatively expressed in depositions as they relate to the ripoffreport.com postings, and that decisions made by potential customers would be regarded as irrelevant.
<< <i>Can you elaborate on this: "That would depend on whether or not decisions made in late 2012 as a result of this posting affect 2012, 2013 and 2014's profits wouldn't you think?"
I would think that decisions made by existing customers would only be relevant if affirmatively expressed in depositions as they relate to the ripoffreport.com postings, and that decisions made by potential customers would be regarded as irrelevant. >>
<< <i>No need for the snarky comments. Some of us know Laura and care about this cowardly act directed toward her.
Dang! Once again, I'm too late to add a snarky comment.
Seriously, this whole situation is more amusing than anything else. Regardless of what was said by the alleged cyber-bully, Legend's reputation was never really damaged. >>
I disagree. When you deal with billionaires and multi millionaires, the slightest hint of impropriety can be hugely damaging. >>
I think what he was referring to was that people generally rely on references. Someone hiding behind anonymity is generally not considered accurate or honest. If I were ever fortunate enough to transact in the 6+ figures, I would rely on personal references over a one-time anonymous slander on a perfect record. This does not address the issue of impersonation, identity theft is very common but illegal and unethical so I would say pursue that as the legal matter however since I have no legal background I will refrain from providing more than an opinion.
That would depend on whether or not decisions made in late 2012 as a result of this posting affect 2012, 2013 and 2014's profits wouldn't you think?
I would agree. And because of that, I might want to limit entries like this, though you can't advertise your product as well by stating sales are down.
This is why we are so bullish: Legend has pending sales of $1,100,000.00 for the first 5 days of 2013 so far! That is unheard of.
Legend may eventually find their performance coming back towards that of other major retailers. And that would more than likely be related to market supply/demand rather than a lone cyber bully. Let's face it, the 2012 RC market was hugely affected by gold and silver's continuing choppy and weak performance. They've been correcting since 2011. So I don't think one can even use 2012 as a marker year when the primary driver behind the rare coin market of the past 10 yrs was on vacation. My gut feel is that 2013 and probably 2014 will end up being no better than 2012's Rare Coin market. Therefore I disagree with Legend's bullish stance on 2013. There will of course be times when prices are rallying for a few months.....and failing for a few months as well.
Seriously, this whole situation is more amusing than anything else. Regardless of what was said by the alleged cyber-bully, Legend's reputation was never really damaged. >>
I disagree. When you deal with billionaires and multi millionaires, the slightest hint of impropriety can be hugely damaging.
My limited experience with billionaires is that they're smart enough to see through the BS. Then again, even if I'm right, there are a lot of rich people in this world, and there may be many exceptions to the rule.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>No need for the snarky comments. Some of us know Laura and care about this cowardly act directed toward her.
Dang! Once again, I'm too late to add a snarky comment.
Seriously, this whole situation is more amusing than anything else. Regardless of what was said by the alleged cyber-bully, Legend's reputation was never really damaged. >>
I disagree. When you deal with billionaires and multi millionaires, the slightest hint of impropriety can be hugely damaging. >>
Sounds like you are playing it up for the courtroom drama. File a lawsuit and wait and read what the countersuit is going to comeback saying. It is all fluff and BS. A lot of millionaires and billionaires did not make it without stepping on some toes along the way.
I vote that if it evers makes it to a courtroom and the clown shows ( ops i hope i do not get sued) that it will be tossed when the lawyer or judge says that no reasonable person would ever take the comments as being true about Laura or Legend. On the other hand the lawyer for the accused may very well present some dirt.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>The lies and slander/defamation actually were laughable. You can email myself: lsperber@hotmail.com or my lawyer JReynolds@kwikalaw.com >>
I'm betting Mr. Reynolds, isn't thrilled with this disclosure. >>
Why would you make a bet you can't win?
The perpetrator's identity is known - all remedies [civil and criminal] are being pursued as we speak. >>
You know the name of the person and start a post but do not disclose anything other than bring all this back into print. Did your lawyer ask that you post this to try to up the damage award? Getting the judgement is easy, collecting is the hard part.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
Thank you for the posting, which is the first I had heard of it. It is terrible, and, criminal issues aside, it looks to be classic defamation per se. In many if not most jurisdictions, the law will presume damages when someone seeks to harm another in their business. The Ripoff Report that I found on a google search looks to fit that bill. One approach to stop these folks is to prosecute them criminally, if possible, and pursue them civilly. The civil component can be expensive. The other approach is to let it die a natural death ... and hope it goes away. This is less costly in the short term. However, it is a judgment call and stuff on the internet doesn't just disappear. Of course, one could also hire a company to assist in driving the defamatory comments out of visible range, but that is often not as simple as it sounds. Sorry to see this happen to a fine company.
One of my least favorite items from the sushi bar. >>
It is lunchtime now, i am no longer hungry
The countersuit filed by the guys/gals attorney will claim Laura started it by calling him a chat room weenie. Maybe the culprit will get life and the taxpayers can be on the hook for 40k a year plus court appointed attorneys.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>I think they will have a better chance of suing the ripoffreport site than the perp. I still cant believe the FBI would be involved in this. >>
It might not be the real FBI, it might be the local FBI (FREDS Best Investigactions) of Harlem NY. The real FBI may be busy on more pressing maters although the guy/gal should not have posted what they did about Laura/Legend.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
With all due respect, I hope you're enjoying your little amusing comments. We'll see how funny you think it is when someone messes with YOUR livelyhood.
Read the original link and this was a weasely thing to do. I think the author and probably that website are in for a rough ride, as this can be construed as an attempt at interfering in interstate commerce, harrassment, as well as slander. This could be the reason the Feds are involved.
Whatever they thought they were doing, it was a dumb move.
<< <i>With all due respect, I hope you're enjoying your little amusing comments. We'll see how funny you think it is when someone messes with YOUR livelihood. >>
After several months of intense investigation, we would like to announce that Laura Sperber has filed a lawsuit against Paul Elwell from Mattawan, Michigan alleging that Elwell is responsible for a false and defamatory “report” about Laura that was posted anonymously on the website, ripoffreport.com. We are confident that our legal team will prevail in the proceedings. Attached is a copy of Sperber’s complaint against Elwell that was filed in the United States District Court, District of New Jersey.
(I have not attached the lawsuit as I cannot host it - I do have a copy here on file)
Interesting development - hope it doesn't take years to resolve. Thanks for the update.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
Sorry to hear about your problems...no matter what having to deal with court issues and lawyers is a massive waste of time and money. I'm sure you'd rather be worrying about you next purchase or sale.
<< <i>No need for the snarky comments. Some of us know Laura and care about this cowardly act directed toward her.
Dang! Once again, I'm too late to add a snarky comment.
Seriously, this whole situation is more amusing than anything else. Regardless of what was said by the alleged cyber-bully, Legend's reputation was never really damaged. >>
I disagree. When you deal with billionaires and multi millionaires, the slightest hint of impropriety can be hugely damaging. >>
Sounds like you are playing it up for the courtroom drama. File a lawsuit and wait and read what the countersuit is going to comeback saying. It is all fluff and BS. A lot of millionaires and billionaires did not make it without stepping on some toes along the way.
I vote that if it evers makes it to a courtroom and the clown shows ( ops i hope i do not get sued) that it will be tossed when the lawyer or judge says that no reasonable person would ever take the comments as being true about Laura or Legend. On the other hand the lawyer for the accused may very well present some dirt. >>
there are some people in society who would rather not go near someone than have their good name mixed up with them.
Good for her. From what I know of that Ripoff report, and having tried internet defamation cases, I believe that if she can prove that the defendant posted the comments, she will be mostly there. The law vigorously defends an individual's right of free speech, but when a person damages another in his or her business, utilizing false information, the law also allows for damages, even presumes damages in many jurisdiction, and also allows for exemplary or punitive damages if the offender acted with malice. There are undoubtedly many other nuances in the case, but from the outside looking in, it appeared to be something that needed to be done.
LOL I know Paul Elwell. Hope you nail him down hard, though I think it's not a definite win. You definitely have a lot of work ahead of you. You gotta prove not only that he hurt you economically, but that there's a specific dollar amount he cost you.
Speaking of "specific numbers," let's hope he doesn't bring up the extra $3-4 million you spent bidding on that 1794 dollar, no? Might throw away the "economic cost" credibility
I completely support Laura and Legend in this, as I too have also had unpleasant dealings with Mr. Elwell. FYI, here are some of his past aliases he has used on the message boards: ProofCents, Coins911, CoinDogs
I know Legend and Laura are not into Moderns, but if a money judgment is entered against the defendant levy, execution and sale of the defendant's modern registry sets by Legend and Laura may appeal to them, if for no other reason than taking them from the defendant.
Comments
<< <i>i vaugely remember the "reverend" jerry fallwell suing penthouse magazine for defamation over an article about fallwell's relationship with his mother... if something is damaging, it cant be laughable as well >>
That would depend on who it is laughable to. Like Mr Eureka says, most who are active in the hobby know Legend's reputation and would question this ripoff report. To many on this chatroom, the assertions were indeed laughable. However, to those who are more on the periphery, they may be all they need to not do business with Legend.
If I asserted to the FBI that you didn't pay your nanny tax, those who know you may think it laughable since you don't have a nanny. But those vetting you for that Cabinet level position may say it's just not worth the fight since the assertion was a matter of public record. So something can indeed be laughable from one perspective, but damaging from another.
That might be difficult considering there has been no shortage of Legend Market updates consistently stating since 2008 that Legend has been having record shows and monthly sales in even the worst of the market doldrums. Frankly, I've just been blown away by the consistent stream of positive news. So instead of consistent new monthly and annual sales records they would have had even bigger records? One might be able to argue that the publicity has boosted sales and directed more people towards them than might have occurred otherwise. I could see some liability if they weren't having banner years, year after year. What other major retailers (besides Heritage) are growing volume and profits over the past 4 years? And we can't include some of the bigger firms that might be doing this by mergers and acquistions (ie basic survival).
<< <i>This ripoff report just recently occurred - what does that have to do with Market Reports in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and early 2012??? >>
That Legend's business model is essentially impervious to negative criticism, coin docs, and probably cyber bullies as well?
<< <i>
<< <i>This ripoff report just recently occurred - what does that have to do with Market Reports in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and early 2012??? >>
That Legend's business model is essentially impervious to negative criticism, coin docs, and probably cyber bullies as well? >>
That would depend on whether or not decisions made in late 2012 as a result of this posting affect 2012, 2013 and 2014's profits wouldn't you think?
I would think that decisions made by existing customers would only be relevant if affirmatively expressed in depositions as they relate to the ripoffreport.com postings, and that decisions made by potential customers would be regarded as irrelevant.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>Can you elaborate on this: "That would depend on whether or not decisions made in late 2012 as a result of this posting affect 2012, 2013 and 2014's profits wouldn't you think?"
I would think that decisions made by existing customers would only be relevant if affirmatively expressed in depositions as they relate to the ripoffreport.com postings, and that decisions made by potential customers would be regarded as irrelevant. >>
Seriously? I think you are very very wrong
<< <i>
<< <i>No need for the snarky comments. Some of us know Laura and care about this cowardly act directed toward her.
Dang! Once again, I'm too late to add a snarky comment.
Seriously, this whole situation is more amusing than anything else. Regardless of what was said by the alleged cyber-bully, Legend's reputation was never really damaged. >>
I disagree. When you deal with billionaires and multi millionaires, the slightest hint of impropriety can be hugely damaging. >>
I think what he was referring to was that people generally rely on references. Someone hiding behind anonymity is generally not considered accurate or honest. If I were ever fortunate enough to transact in the 6+ figures, I would rely on personal references over a one-time anonymous slander on a perfect record. This does not address the issue of impersonation, identity theft is very common but illegal and unethical so I would say pursue that as the legal matter however since I have no legal background I will refrain from providing more than an opinion.
I would agree. And because of that, I might want to limit entries like this, though you can't advertise your product as well by stating sales are down.
This is why we are so bullish: Legend has pending sales of $1,100,000.00 for the first 5 days of 2013 so far! That is unheard of.
Legend may eventually find their performance coming back towards that of other major retailers. And that would more than likely be related to market supply/demand
rather than a lone cyber bully. Let's face it, the 2012 RC market was hugely affected by gold and silver's continuing choppy and weak performance. They've been correcting since 2011.
So I don't think one can even use 2012 as a marker year when the primary driver behind the rare coin market of the past 10 yrs was on vacation. My gut feel is that 2013 and probably
2014 will end up being no better than 2012's Rare Coin market. Therefore I disagree with Legend's bullish stance on 2013. There will of course be times when prices are rallying for a
few months.....and failing for a few months as well.
<< <i>I'm looking forward to finding out who it was. >>
Very happy that the situation is moving in that direction. Good for Laura and for Legend.
Mike
I disagree. When you deal with billionaires and multi millionaires, the slightest hint of impropriety can be hugely damaging.
My limited experience with billionaires is that they're smart enough to see through the BS. Then again, even if I'm right, there are a lot of rich people in this world, and there may be many exceptions to the rule.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>
<< <i>No need for the snarky comments. Some of us know Laura and care about this cowardly act directed toward her.
Dang! Once again, I'm too late to add a snarky comment.
Seriously, this whole situation is more amusing than anything else. Regardless of what was said by the alleged cyber-bully, Legend's reputation was never really damaged. >>
I disagree. When you deal with billionaires and multi millionaires, the slightest hint of impropriety can be hugely damaging. >>
Sounds like you are playing it up for the courtroom drama. File a lawsuit and wait and read what the countersuit is going to comeback saying. It is all fluff and BS. A lot of millionaires and billionaires did not make it without stepping on some toes along the way.
I vote that if it evers makes it to a courtroom and the clown shows ( ops i hope i do not get sued) that it will be tossed when the lawyer or judge says that no reasonable person would ever take the comments as being true about Laura or Legend. On the other hand the lawyer for the accused may very well present some dirt.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The lies and slander/defamation actually were laughable. You can email myself: lsperber@hotmail.com or my lawyer JReynolds@kwikalaw.com >>
I'm betting Mr. Reynolds, isn't thrilled with this disclosure. >>
Why would you make a bet you can't win?
The perpetrator's identity is known - all remedies [civil and criminal] are being pursued as we speak. >>
You know the name of the person and start a post but do not disclose anything other than bring all this back into print. Did your lawyer ask that you post this to try to up the damage award? Getting the judgement is easy, collecting is the hard part.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Tom
Is it this from the ripoff report? Note the last item from what appears to be Legends attorney.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/laura-sperber-of-leg/computer-fraud/internet-internet-03130.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripoff_Report
<< <i>/eyeroll >>
One of my least favorite items from the sushi bar.
merse
Text
<< <i>
<< <i>/eyeroll >>
One of my least favorite items from the sushi bar. >>
It is lunchtime now, i am no longer hungry
The countersuit filed by the guys/gals attorney will claim Laura started it by calling him a chat room weenie. Maybe the culprit will get life and the taxpayers can be on the hook for 40k a year plus court appointed attorneys.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>I think they will have a better chance of suing the ripoffreport site than the perp. I still cant believe the FBI would be involved in this. >>
It might not be the real FBI, it might be the local FBI (FREDS Best Investigactions) of Harlem NY.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Whatever they thought they were doing, it was a dumb move.
I agree and sympathize with your comment
<< <i>With all due respect, I hope you're enjoying your little amusing comments. We'll see how funny you think it is when someone messes with YOUR livelihood. >>
I hope you nail the person to the wall.
(I have not attached the lawsuit as I cannot host it - I do have a copy here on file)
Latin American Collection
<< <i>Wow I live in Mattawan MI! >>
And is your name......
merse
merse
Thanks for the update.
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow I live in Mattawan MI! >>
And is your name...... >>
Not Paul Elwell.
Latin American Collection
Best of luck with it.
jom
Don
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>No need for the snarky comments. Some of us know Laura and care about this cowardly act directed toward her.
Dang! Once again, I'm too late to add a snarky comment.
Seriously, this whole situation is more amusing than anything else. Regardless of what was said by the alleged cyber-bully, Legend's reputation was never really damaged. >>
I disagree. When you deal with billionaires and multi millionaires, the slightest hint of impropriety can be hugely damaging. >>
Sounds like you are playing it up for the courtroom drama. File a lawsuit and wait and read what the countersuit is going to comeback saying. It is all fluff and BS. A lot of millionaires and billionaires did not make it without stepping on some toes along the way.
I vote that if it evers makes it to a courtroom and the clown shows ( ops i hope i do not get sued) that it will be tossed when the lawyer or judge says that no reasonable person would ever take the comments as being true about Laura or Legend. On the other hand the lawyer for the accused may very well present some dirt. >>
there are some people in society who would rather not go near someone than have their good name mixed up with them.
Tom
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
Speaking of "specific numbers," let's hope he doesn't bring up the extra $3-4 million you spent bidding on that 1794 dollar, no? Might throw away the "economic cost" credibility
Dolan
case docket info
https://thepennylady.com/
Good luck to L and L with the lawsuit.
I love this place