Poor poor inherited coin collections from Coin Vault/HSN/ACTV/etc.
guitarwes
Posts: 9,299 ✭✭✭
I know it's been discussed here before, but I absolutely hate walking in to a coin collection appraisal and seeing suitcases full of stuff bought from Coin Vault/HSN/etc or these magazine marketed SHQ/Prez bucks album & wood boxed sets. Makes me sick for the person who got suckered into spending a bunch of their hard earned $$$ thinking this was an "investment" and sick for the heirs that are hopeful of their parents multi-thousand dollar coin collection (accumulation) to make big bucks.
This happened to me last night. There were stacks and stacks of invoices from the TV rippers and each one I read made me a little more nauseous. The fast talkers and tactics make it really easy for a new collector (especially a non-computer savvy newbie) to get sucked in to their schemes. Mix that with living alone, lonliness, credit cards, and a non-local family that doesn't know anything about coins and you have a recipe for a really bad deal.
Just one example and I'll hush.......$1599 for 20 different AU/BU Morgans with an 1884-CC Morgan and extra Peace Dollar thrown in. These are these TV washed "commercial AU/BU" coins in the Coin Vault Coin Safe container.
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Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
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Eric
The "Cameo King" is a spokesman!
Purchased 2 products hoping for a deal!
Nada!
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My collection of rare gold, type and more for sale.
<< <i>...(at least they are worth some silver), perhaps they would be sucked into something even more financially devastating. >>
Like the 3 rolls of G/VG post-1900 V-nickels that were sold to him for $139 + shipping?
Sick I tell ya.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
It was an awesome feeling to cherry pick them. All in all, we nailed approx 400 coins in less than an hour...
Even their CSR flipped out and was confused on why they were showing "none available" as she indicated they were just offered that morning...
The buyers must accept the lion's share of the blame for not taking the time to find out the true values of the coins.
It certainly is simple enough - even buying a Coin Values magazine or the monthly Coin World at a news stand would give these people at least an inkling of the true values.
Ditto for the suckers who sell their gold/silver etc to those hotel buyers.
One need not be a cynic to realize that there are bad people in the world who stand ready and willing to fleece a chump.
Ignorance is no excuse.
I look at this and begin to lose faith in humanity...then I see buyers and I lose the rest of my faith.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>
<< <i>...(at least they are worth some silver), perhaps they would be sucked into something even more financially devastating. >>
Like the 3 rolls of G/VG post-1900 V-nickels that were sold to him for $139 + shipping?
Sick I tell ya. >>
what a terrible way to get burned like that
I guess the main thing that really bothers me about it (other than the fact they got reamed out without vaseline) is the fact that you almost always come across looking like the bad guy telling them their stuff is worth 1/2 or less than what they paid for it. Even when I explain how the hucksters are, some are understanding, some aren't by any means.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>What I am about to say may sound cruel and insensitive, and I certainly do not condone the coin hucksters' activities, but there are and will always be slick people around to take advantage of incompetent and uninformed folks. It's human nature. If the poor soul were not blowing money on cleaned Morgans (at least they are worth some silver), perhaps they would be sucked into something even more financially devastating. >>
I agree. and this happens with most things in life not just isolated incidents for coin collectors.
I see it every day in the construction/remodeling biz. Homeowners are taken advantage by unscrupulous contractors.
They take them for hundred.......perhaps many thousands of dollars.
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<< <i>I guess the main thing that really bothers me about it (other than the fact they got reamed out without vaseline) is the fact that you almost always come across looking like the bad guy telling them their stuff is worth 1/2 or less than what they paid for it. Even when I explain how the hucksters are, some are understanding, some aren't by any means. >>
If you received compensation for your assessment, you're good to go, goes with the territory. I've delivered bad coin value news for free, it ain't fun.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>Its not only the coins. You watch the crummy jewelry sold on HSN and if you believe the ticker at the bottom of the screen, people are buying that junk every other second, too. I agree that people have to take full responsibility for their decisions. Shucksters will be here forever. Twinkies and HO HO's are next on the block. >>
Twinkies! I live in Chicago. Did you hear the latest about the Twinkie? Some suckers will fall for this one as well. Like someone said earlier, It's in human nature to rip off and to be ripped off!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.<< <i>It is a shame, but like other posters have said, it is everywhere. People know the risks associated with cigarette smoking, and yet they keep doing it. I think that is a shame too. >>
Ain't it the truth!Maybe,if we tell the public that's it's good to smoke,maybe the'll stop.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.<< <i>I guess the main thing that really bothers me about it (other than the fact they got reamed out without vaseline) is the fact that you almost always come across looking like the bad guy telling them their stuff is worth 1/2 or less than what they paid for it. Even when I explain how the hucksters are, some are understanding, some aren't by any means. >>
I can see that, and then you have a percent of them that think YOU are the one out to steal there stuff.
I have had my share of dealers that have buried me in some coins, i do not really blame them that for that. I am self employeed and i am out to make a living. I am guilty of adding a grand or more to the bottom line on some customers if they rub me wrong while i am figuring out what the cost is going to be. I add to the bottom line when i have more work that i can do, i add to the bottom line if possible. When i get to feeling bad about it i will do something good for the elderly and it always comes back to bite me in the rear.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>Unfortunately it is just another brick in the wall, happens all too often with:
Stocks
Junk bonds
Real estate
antiques
collectibles
private loans
private investments
etc etc >>
Don't forget insurance and reverse mortgages (and other financial instruments).
Some people make horrible, self-destructing decisions for themselves every single day. If the worst thing people did was pay 2 or 3 times too much for a bunch of AU/BU Morgans, most would be happier, healthier, and wealthier.
As far as the heirs go, perhaps they should have taken greater interest in their loved ones before they passed away, and perhaps they would have all been better off.
(Wow, that was a very negative post! Sorry, guys.
Ban TV Coin Sellers?
Fine HSN? QVC?
Regulate the Coin Business?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Its not only the coins. You watch the crummy jewelry sold on HSN and if you believe the ticker at the bottom of the screen, people are buying that junk every other second, too. >>
There's a really funny South Park episode concerning crummy jewelry on HSN. I'm not a South Park fan, but it had me chuckling.
<< <i>
<< <i>Its not only the coins. You watch the crummy jewelry sold on HSN and if you believe the ticker at the bottom of the screen, people are buying that junk every other second, too. >>
There's a really funny South Park episode concerning crummy jewelry on HSN. I'm not a South Park fan, but it had me chuckling. >>
I remember that episode - it was spot on.
<< <i>I know it's been discussed here before, but I absolutely hate walking in to a coin collection appraisal and seeing suitcases full of stuff bought from Coin Vault/HSN/etc or these magazine marketed SHQ/Prez bucks album & wood boxed sets.
Seems to be the nature of much of the sales business. The goal is to get the customer to part with the maximum amount of money they can legally get away with. The trick is to do it without killing off your business in a short while. Of course when used car dealers do this they just pull up stakes and move to another side of town. It is mainly up to us to be informed and wise when dealing with them. Even the stinkers on tv can occasionally offer a decent deal.
<< <i>Unfortunately it is just another brick in the wall, happens all too often with:
Stocks
Junk bonds
Real estate
antiques
collectibles
private loans
private investments
etc etc >>
There's a whole other perspective to this:
shoes, purses, clothes, lattes
gadgets, boats, golf, aviation
Some folks spend more on each of those line items than all but the biggest customers of the TV coin shows spend. Do folks write on message boards about sad that is? Or how nice it is to be able to afford to buy some stuff or enjoy some hobbies and live a full life? If folks can stick to the hobby side for coins, all is well. The investment side is best left for sharpies like Realone, and those that choose to be dealers, and maybe 5% or 10% of collectors that have the skills and personality to compete in a hobby where the profits are mostly eaten up by the top 5% of the players.
<< <i>I know it's been discussed here before, but I absolutely hate walking in to a coin collection appraisal and seeing suitcases full of stuff bought from Coin Vault/HSN/etc or these magazine marketed SHQ/Prez bucks album & wood boxed sets. Makes me sick for the person who got suckered into spending a bunch of their hard earned $$$ thinking this was an "investment" and sick for the heirs that are hopeful of their parents multi-thousand dollar coin collection (accumulation) to make big bucks.
This happened to me last night. There were stacks and stacks of invoices from the TV rippers and each one I read made me a little more nauseous. The fast talkers and tactics make it really easy for a new collector (especially a non-computer savvy newbie) to get sucked in to their schemes. Mix that with living alone, lonliness, credit cards, and a non-local family that doesn't know anything about coins and you have a recipe for a really bad deal.
Just one example and I'll hush.......$1599 for 20 different AU/BU Morgans with an 1884-CC Morgan and extra Peace Dollar thrown in. These are these TV washed "commercial AU/BU" coins in the Coin Vault Coin Safe container. >>
EVERYTHING sold on TV has a 2X markup (or more), coins included.
What about the folks who inherit grandma's jewelry, thinking it is worth what she paid at a major retail jewelry store, only to find out the markup from true wholesale to retail on commercial jewelry is 5X to 10X ?
What about people who waste money on cigarettes, etc.
My point is, people waste money on lots of things (that is entirely their right), and many of those things are far worse than TV coins.
Very sad, and put's a very negative spin on this hobby.
<< <i>
<< <i>Ok. Folks have identified the end results now whats the solution?
Ban TV Coin Sellers?
Fine HSN? QVC?
Regulate the Coin Business? >>
education ( nonmandatory) and set free to self destruct >>
Ain't gonna happen because most folks will defend their "right" to be ignorant to the death!
The name is LEE!
The TV guys are all too happy to take advantage of it.
Yeah, there are worse things than buying Morgans for 3x melt, but the way the deal goes down is just extraordinarily distasteful.
Add that with the current environment of entitlement and it just gets worse. I'm talking about the idea that the public is somehow entitled to a guaranteed return on any investment vehicle. Most people will not admit feeling this way, but you see the concept leaking out into the culture every so often.
So the guys on the front lines like the OP who have to clean up the mess at liquidation time are in for lots of abuse.......
<< <i>The CoinVault...meh. Not too long ago me and the boys wiped out their entire stock of a particular item.
It was an awesome feeling to cherry pick them. All in all, we nailed approx 400 coins in less than an hour...
Even their CSR flipped out and was confused on why they were showing "none available" as she indicated they were just offered that morning...
What did you cherry pick?
1) Ask them if they are aware of the typical mark ups when buying coins from the sources in question.
2) Ask them if they have contacted the seller to ask them what they would pay to buy the merchandise back.
3) Tell them what you would charge for the same items. Even if you don't have them, you could probably get them.
4) Ask them what the primary reason was for buying the coins. If it was investment, tell them they went about it the wrong way
and tell them why.
5) When you arrive at a price, tell them what you expect to make and be honest.
6) Don't bad mouth the seller no matter how bad the situation. It never does any good and just inspires a lack of trust in you.
Just stick to the facts in a matter of fact way.
Many years ago I ran into these situations often (when I worked in a coin shop) though back then the culprits were different. These
days I seldom encounter it (in an office environment by appointment) because most people don't do enough research to find us when selling this stuff because they didn't
do research in the first place when buying it, and haven't changed. The local coin shop or local coin show is the easiest access point for the seller.
7) Don't be afraid to say you simply are not interested if your gut tells you it's the right business decision for whatever reason (s) but give suggestions
on how they might best liquidate the material. The sellers might appreciate it. Especially if you say "call this guy" he might be better suited to buy this material.
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
Note the 18 bids.
Now, IMO, folks the blow their money without doing their research on exactly what it is they are buying, should really know better.
Say.........are there extra charges for shipping something that actually is perishable?
Hopefully, these won;t get shipped in a bubble mailer~!
The name is LEE!
1) Was someone drinking while watching late night television ?
2) Is this really inherited or are you just saying that ?
Just kidding, but this is one example of WHY coin dealers drink. It's those Budweiser commercials
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I am not thrilled when i see rick tomzat or however you spell it when he is on the tube hyping his products but some customers love the guy. You have to make the call to them, they are not calling you first.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
The rest of the older stuff was a bunch of cleaned or polished circulated coins in fancy holders that little value above their face or melt value. There were cent and nickels in fancy holders that were worth no more than their face value. That was it.
There were state quarters in holders by year and mint. The coins inside were just run of the mill roll stuff that you could have plucked from circulation when they were issued. I can't imagine how much money this person paid for this stuff, but whatever it was, the true value was a small fraction of the prices paid.
<< <i>I have seen this many times... when I encountered it with people I knew, and tried to let them know they were being fleeced, they became angry. No matter how diplomatic the message is given, the reaction is never good. They then defend the product and tell you that 'you do not understand', even when you produce a Redbook - 'Well, that is wrong'....Lost a couple of friends over this..... Cheers, RickO >>
I had the same thing happen to me when I explained to a guy at my local coin club that the 1796 "silver dollar" he had bought off the Web for $200 was a Chinese counterfeit. The bust of off-cent like the well kinown 1795 variety. He just got mad and never came back to a club meeting.
<< <i>
<< <i>I have seen this many times... when I encountered it with people I knew, and tried to let them know they were being fleeced, they became angry. No matter how diplomatic the message is given, the reaction is never good. They then defend the product and tell you that 'you do not understand', even when you produce a Redbook - 'Well, that is wrong'....Lost a couple of friends over this..... Cheers, RickO >>
I had the same thing happen to me when I explained to a guy at my local coin club that the 1796 "silver dollar" he had bought off the Web for $200 was a Chinese counterfeit. The bust of off-cent like the well kinown 1795 variety. He just got mad and never came back to a club meeting. >>
This is probably a good thing.
Truth be told, places like that are why mainstream collectors are able to sell mint sets and modern rolls at all. They provide a market to dealers that allows them to sell the most common stuff that comes into their b&m.
<< <i>I know it's been discussed here before, but I absolutely hate walking in to a coin collection appraisal and seeing suitcases full of stuff bought from Coin Vault/HSN/etc or these magazine marketed SHQ/Prez bucks album & wood boxed sets. Makes me sick for the person who got suckered into spending a bunch of their hard earned $$$ thinking this was an "investment" and sick for the heirs that are hopeful of their parents multi-thousand dollar coin collection (accumulation) to make big bucks.
This happened to me last night. There were stacks and stacks of invoices from the TV rippers and each one I read made me a little more nauseous. The fast talkers and tactics make it really easy for a new collector (especially a non-computer savvy newbie) to get sucked in to their schemes. Mix that with living alone, lonliness, credit cards, and a non-local family that doesn't know anything about coins and you have a recipe for a really bad deal.
Just one example and I'll hush.......$1599 for 20 different AU/BU Morgans with an 1884-CC Morgan and extra Peace Dollar thrown in. These are these TV washed "commercial AU/BU" coins in the Coin Vault Coin Safe container. >>
I agree that this is not good.
But it could have been a lot worse.
This buyer could have spent all their money on cigarettes, booze, or whatever, and then the heirs would have ended up with nothing at all.
But basically, anything bought with heavy TV advertising behind it is generally going to be the most expensive.
This goes for coins as well as just about everything else including other types of collectibles and many necessities.