<< <i>Its not only the coins. You watch the crummy jewelry sold on HSN and if you believe the ticker at the bottom of the screen, people are buying that junk every other second, too. >>
There's a really funny South Park episode concerning crummy jewelry on HSN. I'm not a South Park fan, but it had me chuckling. >>
<< <i>The CoinVault...meh. Not too long ago me and the boys wiped out their entire stock of a particular item. It was an awesome feeling to cherry pick them. All in all, we nailed approx 400 coins in less than an hour... Even their CSR flipped out and was confused on why they were showing "none available" as she indicated they were just offered that morning... >>
Overpricing happens in every area of the market whether it is auto sales or furniture, etc. It is the name of the game to get the most out of a deal as you can and up to the buyer to seek out the best deal. If they are lazy and do not do it then that is a choice they make. I think the US Mint is overpricing a lot of it's stuff but I do not hear that many rants about how sick someone is about it. It is only a moral issue to me if the pricing is out of line during a crisis or emergency when people have no choices.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
I agree that people ultimately are responsible for how they choose to spend their disposable income. I also agree that it's really easy to not terribly difficult to educate yourself about coins- the internet is wildly available these days, and the resources plentiful.
However, just remember: these companies that rip people off tremendously aren't exactly doing the hobby (as a whole) much of a favor. People who realize they've been ripped off will always have a bad thing or two to say about the activity that ripped them off. I'm not saying that numismatics is truly represented by those commercial scammers, but to the general public, they're quicker to make an impression than the honest dealers you have to search for.
I'm not necessarily calling for "coin regulation" (no quicker way to ruin a hobby), but I'd be interested in participating with others in the coin community to do some collective action against these scammers in a constructive way. Just not sure what that constructive way would be.
I'm certainly not going to defend any of the TV programs, but have always been curious about something. When Coin vault or telemarketers or cash for gold charge too much they are constantly called dirt bags, ripoff artists etc. But when dealers or ebay sellers or someone held in high regard charges a fortune for something....... I see all too often folks on here say they can charge anything they want, it's their business, and it's up to the buyer to pass or play. I just don't get it.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
<< <i>I'm certainly not going to defend any of the TV programs, but have always been curious about something. When Coin vault or telemarketers or cash for gold charge too much they are constantly called dirt bags, ripoff artists etc. But when dealers or ebay sellers or someone held in high regard charges a fortune for something....... I see all too often folks on here say they can charge anything they want, it's their business, and it's up to the buyer to pass or play. I just don't get it. >>
I draw the line when someone blatantly lies about or even misrepresents the market value of the certain coin. For example, New York Mint will offer deals like $129.99 for a raw common date Morgan in AU condition, and then have the audacity to say that the coin sells for $249.99 elsewhere. Then there are the marketing claims you know are loaded. For example, a lot of these commercial coin dealers will say "silver has increased 10x from 1991 to 2006... imagine what our silver can do for you in 15 years!" Yeah... and what about the drops in silver? In my opinion, anyway, this stuff isn't ethical. Morals are relative, I guess... I think it's A-OK for a dealer to say "Well, I'd pay ____ for it" or "I'll sell it to you for _____" as long as he or she isn't saying "Oh, your coin's only worth (some lowball number) elsewhere" or "You should buy this coin for investment, it *can* sell for (some absurd amount) later."
The other day I went in to a pawn shop that opened up in the city, and I saw a guy selling a beat up, problem-filled 1921 Morgan dollar dollar for $49.99. I asked him what his best price was, and after looking at the coin for a bit, he said "$45." I wasn't going to buy it at that price, of course, but at that moment, I didn't think much of it. I was a bit turned off when he looked at me and said "I know silver is low now... but believe me, it'll skyrocket very soon!"
Most people just don't realize how much things are marked up usually. Sure, the sellers tell you they aren't making any money but they're including the cost of a new yacht into their overhead. They're including the vast waste and mismanagement that causes higher prices and that special mark-up known as "what the market will bear". What they aren't including is the cost of the chemicals and equipment used to double the weight of frozen fish before you buy it.
Many items are marked up many fold before you ever see it. Check out the price farmers are actually getting for things like cocoa and compare it to a bottle of Hershey's Syrup. Look at the world sugar price compared to your next 4 lb bag (unless it's 3 1/2 lbs this week).
It's a shame that people are buying coins for far more than they are worth but we should keep this in perspective. Very few buy commodities for investment and people should know better than buying collectibles for investment. But their loss is no worse than it would be shopping at most grocery stores; it's merely unnecessary.
Say what you want about Coin Vault but I have purchased and returned things and have no problems on original charges or refunds. Now compare that to one non-televised dealer I sold coins to that sent me a check for $400 less than an agreed sales price and replied "sorry, his trader made a mistake on the quote" and he will try and get a good price for me on my next purchase to make up for it. This jades me more to the hobby than paying more than I might have otherwise paid if I did my research.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>Say what you want about Coin Vault but I have purchased and returned things and have no problems on original charges or refunds. Now compare that to one non-televised dealer I sold coins to that sent me a check for $400 less than an agreed sales price and replied "sorry, his trader made a mistake on the quote" and he will try and get a good price for me on my next purchase to make up for it. This jades me more to the hobby than paying more than I might have otherwise paid if I did my research. >>
Everything Coin Vault sells isn't at huge mark-ups. Indeed, they often sell things for little more than retail and at retail in quantity. On a few of their proprietary items the prices are close to "good". This isn't to defend them but to place much of the fault on the buyer. The next time your thawed fish float in a bowl of their own "water" just remember you made a bigger mistake than the average coin vault shopper.
The "hucksters" also are prevalent in the TV gem stone business. The B&M I was standing in had a young lady buzzed in responding to the ads of "We buy Gold & Silver!" She handed him a woman's ring, he took out his loupe and looked it over and while he was inspecting the ring she asked him how much she could get for her gemstone ring?
He looked at her dead in the eye and said $85
She had this astonished disbelief look in her eye and explained to him that she paid $1395 for that tanzanite ring! He explained to her that the tanzanite stone had been 'heat enhanced' and not a natural stone and that the setting was only 10k gold.
She left the store looking down at her ring in disbelief, that apparently she had been duped.
Having never ordered anything from the Coin Vault, I don't know if they sell any of this polished material in fancy looking holders that is not good from the beginning and has no future in the coin market. Even a rare coin that has been polished can get no more than a "yes, but ..." grade.
I do know that they sometimes sell some of this gold or platinum plated stuff. That is junk, and will never amount to anything. I've read that a quantity of Fort Vancouver commemorative half dollars were sold by the issuing committee. Despite the fact that those pieces are "as issued" they are considered to be "damaged" and cannot get a clean grade.
I remember hearing years ago one of television barkers pushing the newest issue of State Quarters with gold plating on them as an "investment." That's just pure hokum, and no one here should be defending that.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>Having never ordered anything from the Coin Vault, I don't know if they sell any of this polished material in fancy looking holders that is not good from the beginning and has no future in the coin market. Even a rare coin that has been polished can get no more than a "yes, but ..." grade.
I do know that they sometimes sell some of this gold or platinum plated stuff. That is junk, and will never amount to anything. I've read that a quantity of Fort Vancouver commemorative half dollars were sold by the issuing committee. Despite the fact that those pieces are "as issued" they are considered to be "damaged" and cannot get a clean grade.
I remember hearing years ago one of television barkers pushing the newest issue of State Quarters with gold plating on them as an "investment." That's just pure hokum, and no one here should be defending that. >>
I'm really not defending them and I do believe the government should take them to task for the misrepresentation of some items they sell just as laws should be enforced against manufacturers who pump chemicals and water into fish. It seems now days if you make enough money off of something laws have little meaning. Some of the stuff these guys sell is at many multiples of "true" value and has no significant chance of ever improving. I don't thinmk selling a set of 10 gold plated states coins is illegal or even that their prices are necessarily outrageous. Usually they sell these for only about $20 which is pretty cheap considering their costs and overhead. If you want gold plated coins this is exactly the place to go. The problem is they don't tell the truth and will say almost any- thing to sucker otherwise reasonable people into buying them. They'll even suggest that you're getting a great deal on gold and try to gloss over the fact they are plated at all. They will suggest that such coins will be in great demand despite the fact that this is not histor- ically accurate since few collectors desire items that aren't pristine or used naturally.
Now days there's a lot of false advertising.
Frankly, I think the hotel buyers are far lower on the food chain than TV sales. If the gov- ernment ever starts enforcing the laws these should be the first shut down.
<< <i>I'm certainly not going to defend any of the TV programs, but have always been curious about something. When Coin vault or telemarketers or cash for gold charge too much they are constantly called dirt bags, ripoff artists etc. But when dealers or ebay sellers or someone held in high regard charges a fortune for something....... I see all too often folks on here say they can charge anything they want, it's their business, and it's up to the buyer to pass or play. I just don't get it. >>
I draw the line when someone blatantly lies about or even misrepresents the market value of the certain coin. For example, New York Mint will offer deals like $129.99 for a raw common date Morgan in AU condition, and then have the audacity to say that the coin sells for $249.99 elsewhere. Then there are the marketing claims you know are loaded. For example, a lot of these commercial coin dealers will say "silver has increased 10x from 1991 to 2006... imagine what our silver can do for you in 15 years!" Yeah... and what about the drops in silver? In my opinion, anyway, this stuff isn't ethical. Morals are relative, I guess... I think it's A-OK for a dealer to say "Well, I'd pay ____ for it" or "I'll sell it to you for _____" as long as he or she isn't saying "Oh, your coin's only worth (some lowball number) elsewhere" or "You should buy this coin for investment, it *can* sell for (some absurd amount) later."
The other day I went in to a pawn shop that opened up in the city, and I saw a guy selling a beat up, problem-filled 1921 Morgan dollar dollar for $49.99. I asked him what his best price was, and after looking at the coin for a bit, he said "$45." I wasn't going to buy it at that price, of course, but at that moment, I didn't think much of it. I was a bit turned off when he looked at me and said "I know silver is low now... but believe me, it'll skyrocket very soon!"
When? As soon as I pay for the Morgan? >>
I don't mean to laugh. Your last question just made me chuckle. Sorry The rest of the scenario is all too true.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Its not only the coins. You watch the crummy jewelry sold on HSN and if you believe the ticker at the bottom of the screen, people are buying that junk every other second, too. >>
There's a really funny South Park episode concerning crummy jewelry on HSN. I'm not a South Park fan, but it had me chuckling. >>
Watch it here free, episode 2 (Thank my daughter for knowing exactly which episode).
SMDH.
<< <i>The CoinVault...meh. Not too long ago me and the boys wiped out their entire stock of a particular item. It was an awesome feeling to cherry pick them. All in all, we nailed approx 400 coins in less than an hour... Even their CSR flipped out and was confused on why they were showing "none available" as she indicated they were just offered that morning... >>
I am curious, what was cherrypicked?
However, just remember: these companies that rip people off tremendously aren't exactly doing the hobby (as a whole) much of a favor. People who realize they've been ripped off will always have a bad thing or two to say about the activity that ripped them off. I'm not saying that numismatics is truly represented by those commercial scammers, but to the general public, they're quicker to make an impression than the honest dealers you have to search for.
I'm not necessarily calling for "coin regulation" (no quicker way to ruin a hobby), but I'd be interested in participating with others in the coin community to do some collective action against these scammers in a constructive way. Just not sure what that constructive way would be.
Edited to correct a misspelling.
Interests:
Pre-Jump Grade Project
Toned Commemoratives
I see all too often folks on here say they can charge anything they want, it's their business, and it's up to the buyer to pass or play. I just don't get it.
<< <i>I'm certainly not going to defend any of the TV programs, but have always been curious about something. When Coin vault or telemarketers or cash for gold charge too much they are constantly called dirt bags, ripoff artists etc. But when dealers or ebay sellers or someone held in high regard charges a fortune for something.......
I see all too often folks on here say they can charge anything they want, it's their business, and it's up to the buyer to pass or play. I just don't get it.
I draw the line when someone blatantly lies about or even misrepresents the market value of the certain coin. For example, New York Mint will offer deals like $129.99 for a raw common date Morgan in AU condition, and then have the audacity to say that the coin sells for $249.99 elsewhere. Then there are the marketing claims you know are loaded. For example, a lot of these commercial coin dealers will say "silver has increased 10x from 1991 to 2006... imagine what our silver can do for you in 15 years!" Yeah... and what about the drops in silver?
In my opinion, anyway, this stuff isn't ethical. Morals are relative, I guess... I think it's A-OK for a dealer to say "Well, I'd pay ____ for it" or "I'll sell it to you for _____" as long as he or she isn't saying "Oh, your coin's only worth (some lowball number) elsewhere" or "You should buy this coin for investment, it *can* sell for (some absurd amount) later."
The other day I went in to a pawn shop that opened up in the city, and I saw a guy selling a beat up, problem-filled 1921 Morgan dollar dollar for $49.99. I asked him what his best price was, and after looking at the coin for a bit, he said "$45." I wasn't going to buy it at that price, of course, but at that moment, I didn't think much of it. I was a bit turned off when he looked at me and said "I know silver is low now... but believe me, it'll skyrocket very soon!"
When? As soon as I pay for the Morgan?
Interests:
Pre-Jump Grade Project
Toned Commemoratives
tell you they aren't making any money but they're including the cost of a new yacht into
their overhead. They're including the vast waste and mismanagement that causes higher
prices and that special mark-up known as "what the market will bear". What they aren't
including is the cost of the chemicals and equipment used to double the weight of frozen
fish before you buy it.
Many items are marked up many fold before you ever see it. Check out the price farmers
are actually getting for things like cocoa and compare it to a bottle of Hershey's Syrup. Look
at the world sugar price compared to your next 4 lb bag (unless it's 3 1/2 lbs this week).
It's a shame that people are buying coins for far more than they are worth but we should
keep this in perspective. Very few buy commodities for investment and people should know
better than buying collectibles for investment. But their loss is no worse than it would be
shopping at most grocery stores; it's merely unnecessary.
<< <i>Say what you want about Coin Vault but I have purchased and returned things and have no problems on original charges or refunds. Now compare that to one non-televised dealer I sold coins to that sent me a check for $400 less than an agreed sales price and replied "sorry, his trader made a mistake on the quote" and he will try and get a good price for me on my next purchase to make up for it. This jades me more to the hobby than paying more than I might have otherwise paid if I did my research. >>
Everything Coin Vault sells isn't at huge mark-ups. Indeed, they often sell things for little
more than retail and at retail in quantity. On a few of their proprietary items the prices are
close to "good". This isn't to defend them but to place much of the fault on the buyer. The
next time your thawed fish float in a bowl of their own "water" just remember you made a
bigger mistake than the average coin vault shopper.
He looked at her dead in the eye and said $85
She had this astonished disbelief look in her eye and explained to him that she paid $1395 for that tanzanite ring!
He explained to her that the tanzanite stone had been 'heat enhanced' and not a natural stone and that the setting was only 10k gold.
She left the store looking down at her ring in disbelief, that apparently she had been duped.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
I do know that they sometimes sell some of this gold or platinum plated stuff. That is junk, and will never amount to anything. I've read that a quantity of Fort Vancouver commemorative half dollars were sold by the issuing committee. Despite the fact that those pieces are "as issued" they are considered to be "damaged" and cannot get a clean grade.
I remember hearing years ago one of television barkers pushing the newest issue of State Quarters with gold plating on them as an "investment." That's just pure hokum, and no one here should be defending that.
<< <i>Having never ordered anything from the Coin Vault, I don't know if they sell any of this polished material in fancy looking holders that is not good from the beginning and has no future in the coin market. Even a rare coin that has been polished can get no more than a "yes, but ..." grade.
I do know that they sometimes sell some of this gold or platinum plated stuff. That is junk, and will never amount to anything. I've read that a quantity of Fort Vancouver commemorative half dollars were sold by the issuing committee. Despite the fact that those pieces are "as issued" they are considered to be "damaged" and cannot get a clean grade.
I remember hearing years ago one of television barkers pushing the newest issue of State Quarters with gold plating on them as an "investment." That's just pure hokum, and no one here should be defending that. >>
I'm really not defending them and I do believe the government should take them to
task for the misrepresentation of some items they sell just as laws should be enforced
against manufacturers who pump chemicals and water into fish. It seems now days if
you make enough money off of something laws have little meaning. Some of the stuff
these guys sell is at many multiples of "true" value and has no significant chance of ever
improving. I don't thinmk selling a set of 10 gold plated states coins is illegal or even that
their prices are necessarily outrageous. Usually they sell these for only about $20 which
is pretty cheap considering their costs and overhead. If you want gold plated coins this
is exactly the place to go. The problem is they don't tell the truth and will say almost any-
thing to sucker otherwise reasonable people into buying them. They'll even suggest that
you're getting a great deal on gold and try to gloss over the fact they are plated at all. They
will suggest that such coins will be in great demand despite the fact that this is not histor-
ically accurate since few collectors desire items that aren't pristine or used naturally.
Now days there's a lot of false advertising.
Frankly, I think the hotel buyers are far lower on the food chain than TV sales. If the gov-
ernment ever starts enforcing the laws these should be the first shut down.
8 Reales Madness Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm certainly not going to defend any of the TV programs, but have always been curious about something. When Coin vault or telemarketers or cash for gold charge too much they are constantly called dirt bags, ripoff artists etc. But when dealers or ebay sellers or someone held in high regard charges a fortune for something.......
I see all too often folks on here say they can charge anything they want, it's their business, and it's up to the buyer to pass or play. I just don't get it.
I draw the line when someone blatantly lies about or even misrepresents the market value of the certain coin. For example, New York Mint will offer deals like $129.99 for a raw common date Morgan in AU condition, and then have the audacity to say that the coin sells for $249.99 elsewhere. Then there are the marketing claims you know are loaded. For example, a lot of these commercial coin dealers will say "silver has increased 10x from 1991 to 2006... imagine what our silver can do for you in 15 years!" Yeah... and what about the drops in silver?
In my opinion, anyway, this stuff isn't ethical. Morals are relative, I guess... I think it's A-OK for a dealer to say "Well, I'd pay ____ for it" or "I'll sell it to you for _____" as long as he or she isn't saying "Oh, your coin's only worth (some lowball number) elsewhere" or "You should buy this coin for investment, it *can* sell for (some absurd amount) later."
The other day I went in to a pawn shop that opened up in the city, and I saw a guy selling a beat up, problem-filled 1921 Morgan dollar dollar for $49.99. I asked him what his best price was, and after looking at the coin for a bit, he said "$45." I wasn't going to buy it at that price, of course, but at that moment, I didn't think much of it. I was a bit turned off when he looked at me and said "I know silver is low now... but believe me, it'll skyrocket very soon!"
When? As soon as I pay for the Morgan? >>
I don't mean to laugh. Your last question just made me chuckle. Sorry