<< <i> I remember the last time 1988-1992 product was used as an investment. I just have to believe there are just TONS of this stuff sitting around. Mark >>
There's a lot out there -- but a lot of boxes already busted and more people holding on to their unopened boxes. You can get it in quantity but have to work harder to do so, and people evidently aren't selling cases of it like they used to.
The prices are going up because of this -- good news for some and not for others.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
<< <i> I remember the last time 1988-1992 product was used as an investment. I just have to believe there are just TONS of this stuff sitting around. Mark >>
There's a lot out there -- but a lot of boxes already busted and more people holding on to their unopened boxes. You can get it in quantity but have to work harder to do so, and people evidently aren't selling cases of it like they used to.
The prices are going up because of this -- good news for some and not for others. >>
I agree with what you are saying. I just have this weird feeling people are going to start buying up 88 Donruss or 90 Score wax cases to hold for 5 years and pay for their kids college.
<< <i>I agree with what you are saying. I just have this weird feeling people are going to start buying up 88 Donruss or 90 Score wax cases to hold for 5 years and pay for their kids college.
Mark >>
If I could find any known investment that tracks with college tuition increases -- I could quit my current job. LOL
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
1970-75 Completely dry and classic (any single box will generate interest from multiple sources and will sell for a high price) 1976-80 In the investment phase (there are some cases, and boxes in the hands of collectors but many don't need the money or don't have any inclination to sell). Therefore, it will take substantial price appreciation for these to circulate. Using BBCE as the market indicator. The supply is vastly smaller than we thought (you rarely see boxes for sale now let alone cases). It will take some time for people to come to grips with this because many of us were used to being able to buy these at our leisure. Highly underappreciated in regards to value and scarcity. 1980-85 These are perhaps where the 70s were 5 years ago. You can still find what you want, but it is becoming more difficult each year. Early 80s are becoming more like the 70s than they are late 80s. 1985-90 They printed so much...who knows?
The most important aspect to unopened that people often overlook is the conversion rate. 90% of what you open in the 1970s is entirely useless for grading purposes as the centering was poor. Some years like 1979 and 1977 had poor stock so the corners don't hold - even in pristine vending. In the 80s certain years (especially 1981 Topps and DonRuss) look more like 70s than they do more recent runs. The later 1980s have such a high conversion rate it is hard for me to see value here other than for collectors who grade purely for the fun of it. This has been a very enjoyable thread and fun to investigate further.
1970-75 Completely dry and classic (any single box will generate interest from multiple sources and will sell for a high price) 1976-80 In the investment phase (there are some cases, and boxes in the hands of collectors but many don't need the money or don't have any inclination to sell). Therefore, it will take substantial price appreciation for these to circulate. Using BBCE as the market indicator. The supply is vastly smaller than we thought (you rarely see boxes for sale now let alone cases). It will take some time for people to come to grips with this because many of us were used to being able to buy these at our leisure. Highly underappreciated in regards to value and scarcity. 1980-85 These are perhaps where the 70s were 5 years ago. You can still find what you want, but it is becoming more difficult each year. Early 80s are becoming more like the 70s than they are late 80s. 1985-90 They printed so much...who knows?
The most important aspect to unopened that people often overlook is the conversion rate. 90% of what you open in the 1970s is entirely useless for grading purposes as the centering was poor. Some years like 1979 and 1977 had poor stock so the corners don't hold - even in pristine vending. In the 80s certain years (especially 1981 Topps and DonRuss) look more like 70s than they do more recent runs. The later 1980s have such a high conversion rate it is hard for me to see value here other than for collectors who grade purely for the fun of it. This has been a very enjoyable thread and fun to investigate further. >>
I have been collecting 80's wax boxes for the past year now, and even in that time I am seeing rising prices. I am fortunate I got what I did at the price, but yes, some of it is getting steeper. Its not entirely difficult to get, but more thought needs to be weighed into it. Topps 86 is perhaps the underdog of the 80's IMO, but will probably surprise more people in the long run. I also have been searching for more limited type of pack types. I have been finding Jumbo packs, which I think replaced the Grocery Rack Packs from 1987-1991 with 100 cards in each pack. They also have a special All-Star Rookie card not available in the normal rack packs. These seem extremely hard to get in box form, although I see packs going for about $3.00 each. Also 1991 has 3 different pack variations for their standard 15-card packs. Grocery packs are hard to get throughout the 80's as well, although I see 1982 and 1983 more than any other year. I was able to get a pack of 84 and 85 and a handful of 86. But they are hardly common (although rare might be the right word either).
Other types of packs I have noticed are blister rack packs from Donruss in 1987. I dont think Donruss created rack packs in box form, did they? I never see a box for 1984 Donruss or anything like that. 1980 Topps rack packs are probably the hardest thing to find in box form right now. I am not in the market just yet, but I will cross that bridge at some point.
I honestly never even thought that 80s unopened product would ever become tough to find in my lifetime. I remember a decade ago buying 80 Topps wax boxes for $200 and 81 Topps wax boxes for $50..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Just playing devil's advocate, is there any chance that BBCE holds back inventory to give the impression that product is tougher to locate? Or is this the elephant in the room?
<< <i>Just playing devil's advocate, is there any chance that BBCE holds back inventory to give the impression that product is tougher to locate? Or is this the elephant in the room? >>
I am sure Steve does hold back some material. Just think, it probably wouldn't be a great idea to go to the National with little to no inventory. Now, does he have the inventory that Fritsch does or had and control the market by only slipping a little at a time.....I don't believe so.
With that being said, anything pre 81 is just tough to find. A lot of the guys that have been buying for years has seen it drying up from other sources as well.
ok so what what do all think what boxes are really selling for from late 70s to early 80s in legit unsearched form? I would say that 1977 bb boxes would be at 1200, 1978bb at 850.00, 1979 bb at 600.00 1980 bb at 500.oo, 1981 bb at 125.00,1982 at 155.00,1983bb at 150 ..these are all topps wax boxes. Do you think on the avg it is more than that?
I guess it's possible that some sellers are holding on to later 1980s cases, but in general I've noticed a lot of this product getting harder to find by the case on eBAY lately. Single boxes are still pretty easy to come by but the prices are up.
It's inevitable that late 1980s unopened are going to become harder to find as time goes on, but it does seem to be accelerating more lately than you'd expect. I really believe that this is being driven by graded cards. When you can sell a single 30-50 dollar graded card on BAY from an $8 wax box then there is little downside risk to buying 1980s junk wax boxes in quantity, keeping the good stuff and discarding the rest.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
<< <i>ok so what what do all think what boxes are really selling for from late 70s to early 80s in legit unsearched form? I would say that 1977 bb boxes would be at 1200, 1978bb at 850.00, 1979 bb at 600.00 1980 bb at 500.oo, 1981 bb at 125.00,1982 at 155.00,1983bb at 150 ..these are all topps wax boxes. Do you think on the avg it is more than that? >>
I think you've put fair numbers out there. I believe on 70's wax the market is easily showing another 10% above your base and who knows where it will be in a few more months The question is how to set a price for 1977 when I haven't seen a box for sale in months. 1978 currently has a couple being auctioned on ebay and it will be interesting to see where they end up. The '79 box Paul linked to above is now at $620 with more than 3 1/2 days to go. I guess the point is that there seems to be no stability which probably won't change as long as you have an ever increasing number of buyers chasing an ever dwindling supply of product.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming 'WOW What a Ride!' Mark Frost
I see the guy selling the '79 wax box also has 36 '79 wrappers for sale. It scares the cr@p out of me how many late 70's wrappers are being sold and they are getting a pretty high price. It seem inevitable that these wrappers will all wind up with cards in them again at some point. Buying ungraded wax on eBay is way too risky these days.
<< <i>Steve must be setting things aside for the National.
What's a decent price for a 1978 cello? He's got two, one with Ryan on top and the other with Stargell. >>
The price on those two cellos is fair, but the corners on the Ryan RB are poking through which is probably why no one has jumped on it yet. The Stargell looks good, but I would verify that it has no issues before purchasing as sometimes it is hard to tell in a scan.
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting: Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>Steve must be setting things aside for the National.
What's a decent price for a 1978 cello? He's got two, one with Ryan on top and the other with Stargell. >>
The price on those two cellos is fair, but the corners on the Ryan RB are poking through which is probably why no one has jumped on it yet. The Stargell looks good, but I would verify that it has no issues before purchasing as sometimes it is hard to tell in a scan. >>
The reason I'm not interested is that it looks like the pack Stuauto sold in February. After the Munson pack incident, I'm not touching anything from him. I'm also thinking that might be the reason for the low price. You guys can make up your own mind whether these are the same packs:
<< <i>Steve must be setting things aside for the National.
What's a decent price for a 1978 cello? He's got two, one with Ryan on top and the other with Stargell. >>
The price on those two cellos is fair, but the corners on the Ryan RB are poking through which is probably why no one has jumped on it yet. The Stargell looks good, but I would verify that it has no issues before purchasing as sometimes it is hard to tell in a scan. >>
The reason I'm not interested is that it looks like the pack Stuauto sold in February. After the Munson pack incident, I'm not touching anything from him. I'm also thinking that might be the reason for the low price. You guys can make up your own mind whether these are the same packs: >>
I'm going with 'same pack'.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
Its the same packs. The cello wrapping falls exactly on all the same places as the one sold on ebay. If not, then what would be the odds that the cards have the same centering but different packs? I'm going with "its the same pack".
Lightningboy, where on BBCE do you see the pack that you almost purchased? I just looked but didn't see it?
<< <i>Staying out of the trouble on second thought as I still want to be allowed to participate here....
Let's just say I have been watching stuauto auctions of unopened closely....
aconte >>
I understand your concern but I don't see how any of this is critical at all of PSA - I'm thinking that it will actually add value to PSA slabbed material. Maybe I'm being naive - if so, thanks everyone, it's been real!
No doubt those two 1978 Ryan RB cellos are the same, but I've seen it numerous times with many sellers on eBay that sold both legit stuff and bad resealed packs. If anything, I would be more confident seeing that Steve has that pack listed on his website. BTW, the Ryan RB is normally on top of 1978 cellos for those keeping score at home.
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting: Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>No doubt those two 1978 Ryan RB cellos are the same, but I've seen it numerous times with many sellers on eBay that sold both legit stuff and bad resealed packs. If anything, I would be more confident seeing that Steve has that pack listed on his website. BTW, the Ryan RB is normally on top of 1978 cellos for those keeping score at home. >>
Hey Mike, I personally believe that the two pictures are of the same pack. Take a look at the fisheye on the 'N' in RYAN, the upper right cello damage, the lower left cello damage and how the writing on the cello matches up exactly. You can even see the same small white mark in the 'E' of GAMES. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the pack - you are right that the Ryan RB is a normal top card in '78 as is Stargell. All that I'm saying is that in my opinion the pack came from a source that I don't trust. -Doug
<< <i>No doubt those two 1978 Ryan RB cellos are the same, but I've seen it numerous times with many sellers on eBay that sold both legit stuff and bad resealed packs. If anything, I would be more confident seeing that Steve has that pack listed on his website. BTW, the Ryan RB is normally on top of 1978 cellos for those keeping score at home. >>
Hey Mike, I personally believe that the two pictures are of the same pack. Take a look at the fisheye on the 'N' in RYAN, the upper right cello damage, the lower left cello damage and how the writing on the cello matches up exactly. You can even see the same small white mark in the 'E' of GAMES. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the pack - you are right that the Ryan RB is a normal top card in '78 as is Stargell. All that I'm saying is that in my opinion the pack came from a source that I don't trust. -Doug >>
Doug, I agreed that they are definitely the same pack and also absolutely understand your warning regarding the source of this pack. My only point is that I've come across many sellers over the years that are completely clueless regarding unopened and are only looking for a quick flip. Sometimes they have bad stuff, sometimes they have good stuff. Caution is never a bad thing though.
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting: Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
Sorry Mike, I read your post wrong. I thought you said "I doubt those two packs are the same". I now see you said "No doubt those two packs are the same". My bad.... Doug
<< <i>Sorry Mike, I read your post wrong. I thought you said "I doubt those two packs are the same". I now see you said "No doubt those two packs are the same". My bad.... Doug >>
I figured that must have been it. If I thought they weren't the same pack, then I'd have to kick myself out of the unopened collector club.
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting: Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>Well, this has been a discouraging couple days on the thread. Putting the selling of box/wrapper/gum aside, I appreciate the lecture from those informing me that people collect and keep wrappers. I think I am able to discern the difference between that type of sale and what transpired. Also, if Dave's world is willing to post the sale of a 1952 High number empty case for 50K, obviously there is money to be made in keeping these things.
The most important, and only positive, aspect to this discussion is that there is the potential for self-policing in this hobby. This is the critical reason why high value autographs are now a thriving investment option (non sports ie. Presidents and dead famous people).
Some of the discussion around the 78 cellos on BBCE is over my head and I don't have the inside information. But should the takeaway be it is possible to pass resealed cellos by Steve? Even high profile cellos with stars on top? That would be very discouraging because I have limited all my unopened purchases to either BBCE, Dave's world, Kruk, or Sealed cases on EBAY (I am willing to buy low priced wax on occasion). Certainly anyone can make mistakes being human but is it getting too difficult to find fakes? >>
Kruk has warehouse humidity issues, I would be surprised if you would be happy with the packs if you were ripping. I've bought boxes and singles (modern at that) and the cards looked like they were baked in a sauna. >>
Thanks for the heads-up Vlad! BTW I believe I have only purchased the recent 1985DR racks (2 boxes) without gum so I should be safe...I also bought the 800ct 1977 Tommy John box (they have 3 others lol) - surprisingly, that is the last stinking card I need for my 77set.
So I just saw that the guy went to eBay Canada to sell that...it's so bush league. Doing his best to hide it from everyone. Ironically, the self-proclaimed "Mr. 1978 and 1979" sold a starter kit to a potential scammer to be able to scam another fellow 1978 collector. It's twisted in many ways..from hiding it off on the canadian eBay to biting the hand that feeds him, and the
As many of us continue to invest in unopened, incidents like this are a jolt to the market
The Clockwork Angel Collection...brought to you by Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Chase TheClockworkAngelCollection
Clockwork, you have to read up a few posts. This was already brought up.
"I linked the eBay.ca because that's the only way to see the "best offer" sale price. The sale was made in the open on eBay.com - not that it's any better! -Doug"
<< <i>Some of the discussion around the 78 cellos on BBCE is over my head and I don't have the inside information. But should the takeaway be it is possible to pass resealed cellos by Steve? Even high profile cellos with stars on top? That would be very discouraging because I have limited all my unopened purchases to either BBCE, Dave's world, Kruk, or Sealed cases on EBAY (I am willing to buy low priced wax on occasion). Certainly anyone can make mistakes being human but is it getting too difficult to find fakes? >>
That's already occured. While most people still consider Steve to be a/the subject matter expert on unopened, there was a very long thread late last year over at Net54 detailing how a seller (pepis) doctored some 70's cellos and got them slabbed at PSA. The "pack doctor" was the guy who started the thread and admitted to it. Apparently, the "authorities" got involved. I haven't been back to Net54 to see how that story was resolved. Perhaps none of it was true.
<< <i>Some of the discussion around the 78 cellos on BBCE is over my head and I don't have the inside information. But should the takeaway be it is possible to pass resealed cellos by Steve? Even high profile cellos with stars on top? That would be very discouraging because I have limited all my unopened purchases to either BBCE, Dave's world, Kruk, or Sealed cases on EBAY (I am willing to buy low priced wax on occasion). Certainly anyone can make mistakes being human but is it getting too difficult to find fakes? >>
That's already occured. While most people still consider Steve to be a/the subject matter expert on unopened, there was a very long thread late last year over at Net54 detailing how a seller (pepis) doctored some 70's cellos and got them slabbed at PSA. The "pack doctor" was the guy who started the thread and admitted to it. Apparently, the "authorities" got involved. I haven't been back to Net54 to see how that story was resolved. Perhaps none of it was true. >>
It would not have occurred to me to even attempt to sell something like this. Mostly cause I only collect what I can afford.
I would presume someone buying racks, cards, and boxes/cases totaling thousands of dollars wouldn't take the effort to list, sell, and ship something for a measly amount of money, but nothing really surprises me.
Maybe people should just stick to collecting things they can afford rather than financially extend themselves for "investments".
While it seems this topic of wrappers and gum being sold has stirred up emotions, and rightfully so, I think this should have been brought up in a new thread as it has nothing to do with BBCE and/or their inventory. It comes across as gossip in this thread rather than something meaningful to the hobby.
Way to hide it on eBay.ca and then not offer shipping to Canada.
Wow, a rendition to Canadian eBay. I guess the moral of this story is to send all your trimmed, recolored or otherwise messed with cards to Canada.
I can’t believe that people actually post things around here without actually taking a few seconds to read a few of the previous posts. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, they might get clued into what’s really going on.
<< <i>Oh, it was listed on the American eBay site, my bad. >>
yeah - at present the only way to see what an item actually sold for on a Best Offer transaction is to log in through ebay.ca. I'm sure that particular little loophole will be done away with soon. I believe it has already been removed from .au and others.
<< <i>Way to hide it on eBay.ca and then not offer shipping to Canada.
Wow, a rendition to Canadian eBay. I guess the moral of this story is to send all your trimmed, recolored or otherwise messed with cards to Canada.
I can’t believe that people actually post things around here without actually taking a few seconds to read a few of the previous posts. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, they might get clued into what’s really going on. >>
I agree for the most part, and that's my fault. I read a couple posts and just did not have the time or desire to go through every page of this thing. I also agree it's time to move on. Sorry for bringing it up again.
The Clockwork Angel Collection...brought to you by Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Chase TheClockworkAngelCollection
Back to a more enjoyable subject, I don't think we'll ever see the 80's stuff come close to what we're seeing with the 70's. I don't see much investment potential there personally. I think the biggest factor driving up the 70's stuff is PSA and the rapid ascension of high graded stars from this era. And that rapid ascension has occurred because of how extremely rare they are. There are more buyers than copies that exist. The "sell" with a 1978 box is the potentil of a PSA 10 Molitor for $5-6K or an Eddie Murray, etc etc. That won't happen with, say, 1986 topps baseball. PSA 10's will always be everywhere of any of the cards worth noting. There is nothing to pull out of that box that will be worth much of anything, but that's just an opinion
The Clockwork Angel Collection...brought to you by Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Chase TheClockworkAngelCollection
Comments
<< <i>
I remember the last time 1988-1992 product was used as an investment. I just have to believe there are just TONS of this stuff sitting around.
Mark >>
There's a lot out there -- but a lot of boxes already busted and more people holding on to their unopened boxes.
You can get it in quantity but have to work harder to do so, and people evidently aren't selling cases of it like they used to.
The prices are going up because of this -- good news for some and not for others.
DaveB in St.Louis
<< <i>
<< <i>
I remember the last time 1988-1992 product was used as an investment. I just have to believe there are just TONS of this stuff sitting around.
Mark >>
There's a lot out there -- but a lot of boxes already busted and more people holding on to their unopened boxes.
You can get it in quantity but have to work harder to do so, and people evidently aren't selling cases of it like they used to.
The prices are going up because of this -- good news for some and not for others. >>
I agree with what you are saying. I just have this weird feeling people are going to start buying up 88 Donruss or 90 Score wax cases to hold for 5 years and pay for their kids college.
Mark
T206 Set - 300/524
<< <i>I agree with what you are saying. I just have this weird feeling people are going to start buying up 88 Donruss or 90 Score wax cases to hold for 5 years and pay for their kids college.
Mark >>
If I could find any known investment that tracks with college tuition increases -- I could quit my current job. LOL
DaveB in St.Louis
1970-75 Completely dry and classic (any single box will generate interest from multiple sources and will sell for a high price)
1976-80 In the investment phase (there are some cases, and boxes in the hands of collectors but many don't need the money or don't have any inclination to sell). Therefore, it will take substantial price appreciation for these to circulate. Using BBCE as the market indicator. The supply is vastly smaller than we thought (you rarely see boxes for sale now let alone cases). It will take some time for people to come to grips with this because many of us were used to being able to buy these at our leisure. Highly underappreciated in regards to value and scarcity.
1980-85 These are perhaps where the 70s were 5 years ago. You can still find what you want, but it is becoming more difficult each year. Early 80s are becoming more like the 70s than they are late 80s.
1985-90 They printed so much...who knows?
The most important aspect to unopened that people often overlook is the conversion rate. 90% of what you open in the 1970s is entirely useless for grading purposes as the centering was poor. Some years like 1979 and 1977 had poor stock so the corners don't hold - even in pristine vending.
In the 80s certain years (especially 1981 Topps and DonRuss) look more like 70s than they do more recent runs. The later 1980s have such a high conversion rate it is hard for me to see value here other than for collectors who grade purely for the fun of it.
This has been a very enjoyable thread and fun to investigate further.
<< <i>Here is the current situation as I see it:
1970-75 Completely dry and classic (any single box will generate interest from multiple sources and will sell for a high price)
1976-80 In the investment phase (there are some cases, and boxes in the hands of collectors but many don't need the money or don't have any inclination to sell). Therefore, it will take substantial price appreciation for these to circulate. Using BBCE as the market indicator. The supply is vastly smaller than we thought (you rarely see boxes for sale now let alone cases). It will take some time for people to come to grips with this because many of us were used to being able to buy these at our leisure. Highly underappreciated in regards to value and scarcity.
1980-85 These are perhaps where the 70s were 5 years ago. You can still find what you want, but it is becoming more difficult each year. Early 80s are becoming more like the 70s than they are late 80s.
1985-90 They printed so much...who knows?
The most important aspect to unopened that people often overlook is the conversion rate. 90% of what you open in the 1970s is entirely useless for grading purposes as the centering was poor. Some years like 1979 and 1977 had poor stock so the corners don't hold - even in pristine vending.
In the 80s certain years (especially 1981 Topps and DonRuss) look more like 70s than they do more recent runs. The later 1980s have such a high conversion rate it is hard for me to see value here other than for collectors who grade purely for the fun of it.
This has been a very enjoyable thread and fun to investigate further. >>
I agree 100%.
Mark
T206 Set - 300/524
Other types of packs I have noticed are blister rack packs from Donruss in 1987. I dont think Donruss created rack packs in box form, did they? I never see a box for 1984 Donruss or anything like that. 1980 Topps rack packs are probably the hardest thing to find in box form right now. I am not in the market just yet, but I will cross that bridge at some point.
DaveB in St.Louis
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Just playing devil's advocate, is there any chance that BBCE holds back inventory to give the impression that product is tougher to locate? Or is this the elephant in the room? >>
I am sure Steve does hold back some material. Just think, it probably wouldn't be a great idea to go to the National with little to no inventory. Now, does he have the inventory that Fritsch does or had and control the market by only slipping a little at a time.....I don't believe so.
With that being said, anything pre 81 is just tough to find. A lot of the guys that have been buying for years has seen it drying up from other sources as well.
Mark
T206 Set - 300/524
product getting harder to find by the case on eBAY lately. Single boxes are still pretty easy to come by but the
prices are up.
It's inevitable that late 1980s unopened are going to become harder to find as time goes on, but it does seem to
be accelerating more lately than you'd expect. I really believe that this is being driven by graded cards.
When you can sell a single 30-50 dollar graded card on BAY from an $8 wax box then there is little downside risk
to buying 1980s junk wax boxes in quantity, keeping the good stuff and discarding the rest.
DaveB in St.Louis
<< <i>ok so what what do all think what boxes are really selling for from late 70s to early 80s in legit unsearched form? I would say that 1977 bb boxes would be at 1200, 1978bb at 850.00, 1979 bb at 600.00 1980 bb at 500.oo, 1981 bb at 125.00,1982 at 155.00,1983bb at 150 ..these are all topps wax boxes. Do you think on the avg it is more than that? >>
I think you've put fair numbers out there. I believe on 70's wax the market is easily showing another 10% above your base and who knows where it will be in a few more months The question is how to set a price for 1977 when I haven't seen a box for sale in months. 1978 currently has a couple being auctioned on ebay and it will be interesting to see where they end up. The '79 box Paul linked to above is now at $620 with more than 3 1/2 days to go. I guess the point is that there seems to be no stability which probably won't change as long as you have an ever increasing number of buyers chasing an ever dwindling supply of product.
Doug
What's a decent price for a 1978 cello? He's got two, one with Ryan on top
and the other with Stargell.
DaveB in St.Louis
<< <i>when was the last time there were ZERO Topps Rack Cases on the site? oh my. >>
Looks like you are sitting on some gold Eric.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>Steve must be setting things aside for the National.
What's a decent price for a 1978 cello? He's got two, one with Ryan on top
and the other with Stargell. >>
The price on those two cellos is fair, but the corners on the Ryan RB are poking through which is probably why no one has jumped on it yet. The Stargell looks good, but I would verify that it has no issues before purchasing as sometimes it is hard to tell in a scan.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>
<< <i>Steve must be setting things aside for the National.
What's a decent price for a 1978 cello? He's got two, one with Ryan on top
and the other with Stargell. >>
The price on those two cellos is fair, but the corners on the Ryan RB are poking through which is probably why no one has jumped on it yet. The Stargell looks good, but I would verify that it has no issues before purchasing as sometimes it is hard to tell in a scan. >>
The reason I'm not interested is that it looks like the pack Stuauto sold in February. After the Munson pack incident, I'm not touching anything from him. I'm also thinking that might be the reason for the low price. You guys can make up your own mind whether these are the same packs:
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Steve must be setting things aside for the National.
What's a decent price for a 1978 cello? He's got two, one with Ryan on top
and the other with Stargell. >>
The price on those two cellos is fair, but the corners on the Ryan RB are poking through which is probably why no one has jumped on it yet. The Stargell looks good, but I would verify that it has no issues before purchasing as sometimes it is hard to tell in a scan. >>
The reason I'm not interested is that it looks like the pack Stuauto sold in February. After the Munson pack incident, I'm not touching anything from him. I'm also thinking that might be the reason for the low price. You guys can make up your own mind whether these are the same packs:
I'm going with 'same pack'.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
Let's just say I have been watching stuauto auctions of unopened closely....
aconte
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
Lightningboy, where on BBCE do you see the pack that you almost purchased? I just looked but didn't see it?
"New items" at the bottom of the main menu will take you there.
DaveB in St.Louis
<< <i>Looks like both those packs are the same to me. >>
+1
The upper right corner has identical "crinkle" of the cello.
DaveB in St.Louis
<< <i>
<< <i>when was the last time there were ZERO Topps Rack Cases on the site? oh my. >>
Looks like you are sitting on some gold Eric.
LOLOL lets not get crazy
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
<< <i>Staying out of the trouble on second thought as I still want to be allowed to participate here....
Let's just say I have been watching stuauto auctions of unopened closely....
aconte >>
I understand your concern but I don't see how any of this is critical at all of PSA - I'm thinking that it will actually add value to PSA slabbed material. Maybe I'm being naive - if so, thanks everyone, it's been real!
Doug
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>No doubt those two 1978 Ryan RB cellos are the same, but I've seen it numerous times with many sellers on eBay that sold both legit stuff and bad resealed packs. If anything, I would be more confident seeing that Steve has that pack listed on his website. BTW, the Ryan RB is normally on top of 1978 cellos for those keeping score at home. >>
Hey Mike, I personally believe that the two pictures are of the same pack. Take a look at the fisheye on the 'N' in RYAN, the upper right cello damage, the lower left cello damage and how the writing on the cello matches up exactly. You can even see the same small white mark in the 'E' of GAMES. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the pack - you are right that the Ryan RB is a normal top card in '78 as is Stargell. All that I'm saying is that in my opinion the pack came from a source that I don't trust. -Doug
<< <i>
<< <i>No doubt those two 1978 Ryan RB cellos are the same, but I've seen it numerous times with many sellers on eBay that sold both legit stuff and bad resealed packs. If anything, I would be more confident seeing that Steve has that pack listed on his website. BTW, the Ryan RB is normally on top of 1978 cellos for those keeping score at home. >>
Hey Mike, I personally believe that the two pictures are of the same pack. Take a look at the fisheye on the 'N' in RYAN, the upper right cello damage, the lower left cello damage and how the writing on the cello matches up exactly. You can even see the same small white mark in the 'E' of GAMES. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the pack - you are right that the Ryan RB is a normal top card in '78 as is Stargell. All that I'm saying is that in my opinion the pack came from a source that I don't trust. -Doug >>
Doug, I agreed that they are definitely the same pack and also absolutely understand your warning regarding the source of this pack. My only point is that I've come across many sellers over the years that are completely clueless regarding unopened and are only looking for a quick flip. Sometimes they have bad stuff, sometimes they have good stuff. Caution is never a bad thing though.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>Sorry Mike, I read your post wrong. I thought you said "I doubt those two packs are the same". I now see you said "No doubt those two packs are the same". My bad.... Doug >>
I figured that must have been it. If I thought they weren't the same pack, then I'd have to kick myself out of the unopened collector club.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, this has been a discouraging couple days on the thread. Putting the selling of box/wrapper/gum aside, I appreciate the lecture from those informing me that people collect and keep wrappers. I think I am able to discern the difference between that type of sale and what transpired. Also, if Dave's world is willing to post the sale of a 1952 High number empty case for 50K, obviously there is money to be made in keeping these things.
The most important, and only positive, aspect to this discussion is that there is the potential for self-policing in this hobby. This is the critical reason why high value autographs are now a thriving investment option (non sports ie. Presidents and dead famous people).
Some of the discussion around the 78 cellos on BBCE is over my head and I don't have the inside information. But should the takeaway be it is possible to pass resealed cellos by Steve? Even high profile cellos with stars on top? That would be very discouraging because I have limited all my unopened purchases to either BBCE, Dave's world, Kruk, or Sealed cases on EBAY (I am willing to buy low priced wax on occasion). Certainly anyone can make mistakes being human but is it getting too difficult to find fakes? >>
Kruk has warehouse humidity issues, I would be surprised if you would be happy with the packs if you were ripping. I've bought boxes and singles (modern at that) and the cards looked like they were baked in a sauna. >>
Thanks for the heads-up Vlad! BTW I believe I have only purchased the recent 1985DR racks (2 boxes) without gum so I should be safe...I also bought the 800ct 1977 Tommy John box (they have 3 others lol) - surprisingly, that is the last stinking card I need for my 77set.
As many of us continue to invest in unopened, incidents like this are a jolt to the market
TheClockworkAngelCollection
"I linked the eBay.ca because that's the only way to see the "best offer" sale price. The sale was made in the open on eBay.com - not that it's any better! -Doug"
<< <i>Some of the discussion around the 78 cellos on BBCE is over my head and I don't have the inside information. But should the takeaway be it is possible to pass resealed cellos by Steve? Even high profile cellos with stars on top? That would be very discouraging because I have limited all my unopened purchases to either BBCE, Dave's world, Kruk, or Sealed cases on EBAY (I am willing to buy low priced wax on occasion). Certainly anyone can make mistakes being human but is it getting too difficult to find fakes? >>
That's already occured. While most people still consider Steve to be a/the subject matter expert on unopened, there was a very long thread late last year over at Net54 detailing how a seller (pepis) doctored some 70's cellos and got them slabbed at PSA. The "pack doctor" was the guy who started the thread and admitted to it. Apparently, the "authorities" got involved. I haven't been back to Net54 to see how that story was resolved. Perhaps none of it was true.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
<< <i>
<< <i>Some of the discussion around the 78 cellos on BBCE is over my head and I don't have the inside information. But should the takeaway be it is possible to pass resealed cellos by Steve? Even high profile cellos with stars on top? That would be very discouraging because I have limited all my unopened purchases to either BBCE, Dave's world, Kruk, or Sealed cases on EBAY (I am willing to buy low priced wax on occasion). Certainly anyone can make mistakes being human but is it getting too difficult to find fakes? >>
That's already occured. While most people still consider Steve to be a/the subject matter expert on unopened, there was a very long thread late last year over at Net54 detailing how a seller (pepis) doctored some 70's cellos and got them slabbed at PSA. The "pack doctor" was the guy who started the thread and admitted to it. Apparently, the "authorities" got involved. I haven't been back to Net54 to see how that story was resolved. Perhaps none of it was true. >>
Thanks McAdams
I would presume someone buying racks, cards, and boxes/cases totaling thousands of dollars wouldn't take the effort to list, sell, and ship something for a measly amount of money, but nothing really surprises me.
Maybe people should just stick to collecting things they can afford rather than financially extend themselves for "investments".
And then other random wrappers from 1978 and 1979
<< <i>
edit: actual prices realized:
$100
$110
$110
$36
$80
$48
Bobby, please make sure VCP reflects these gum sales.
wouldn't that need to gum from the VGP website?
Wow, a rendition to Canadian eBay. I guess the moral of this story is to send all your trimmed, recolored or otherwise messed with cards to Canada.
Wow, a rendition to Canadian eBay. I guess the moral of this story is to send all your trimmed, recolored or otherwise messed with cards to Canada.
I can’t believe that people actually post things around here without actually taking a few seconds to read a few of the previous posts. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, they might get clued into what’s really going on.
<< <i>Oh, it was listed on the American eBay site, my bad. >>
yeah - at present the only way to see what an item actually sold for on a Best Offer transaction is to log in through ebay.ca. I'm sure that particular little loophole will be done away with soon. I believe it has already been removed from .au and others.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>Way to hide it on eBay.ca and then not offer shipping to Canada.
Wow, a rendition to Canadian eBay. I guess the moral of this story is to send all your trimmed, recolored or otherwise messed with cards to Canada.
I can’t believe that people actually post things around here without actually taking a few seconds to read a few of the previous posts. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, they might get clued into what’s really going on. >>
I agree for the most part, and that's my fault. I read a couple posts and just did not have the time or desire to go through every page of this thing. I also agree it's time to move on. Sorry for bringing it up again.
TheClockworkAngelCollection
TheClockworkAngelCollection