Pay a premium for a coin with pretty color?

jphendren · February 14, 2013 12:41PM

Hello,

I collect Carson City silver coins, and found a very pretty 1877 CC dime. It has a very nice brown/blue tone to the obverse, it is much nicer than any other CC dime I have seen. The problem is the seller is asking around 30% over book for the grade due to the nice toning, and his price is firm. I would really love to own this piece, but hate to eat that much premium. I have to admit that the odds of finding another like this seems low. So, would you normally pay above book to get a coin that you really like? I checked ebay past auctions, and Heritage and similar coins (minus the toning) tend to run in the $205-230 range, the seller wants $295.

Jared

TomB · February 14, 2013 12:43PM

I pay up for nice coins and suggest to my clients to do the same. What "pay up" means from person-to-person will be different and what this dime looks like to someone else might be entirely different than what it looks like to you.

Barndog · February 14, 2013 12:47PM

Sixty five extra bucks? Slam dunk decision there

You love the coin and it is the best you have seen...

Buy before someone else does, right?

coinsarefun · February 14, 2013 12:52PM

IMO, that is an extremely small premium if it is very nicely toned.

You wouldn't want to hear what I pay for toning premiums

2ltdjorn · February 14, 2013 12:54PM

if you pay more than 5% back of bid then your are a fool...

In all seriousness if you like it buy it!

jphendren · February 14, 2013 12:58PM

Hopefully posting this doesn't break any rules. It is graded AU 58 by PCGS, I consider the toning to be very attractive, maybe others will not.

TomB · February 14, 2013 1:09PM

I'm in the "others may not" category. In general, I do not like partial fingerprints on my coins.

jphendren · February 14, 2013 1:13PM

Is that a fingerprint? I just thought it was mottled toning. The seller tags it as fabulous blue toning.

stman · February 14, 2013 1:14PM

If the image is accurate...... this is not the kind of coin I would step up for the toning. Matter fact, I would step down on this one.

magikbilly · February 14, 2013 1:18PM

That coin=nope (unless it flashes serious blue/colors in the glare which I doubt). Not attractive to many and remember, brown is the most common color on silver (esp a retone). BUT, for a real zinger, something unusual, good color etc., price guides and other sales mean little if anything. If this were the coin I imagined when reading the thread, the extra $ would be appropriate and/or irrelevant.
Is that really the best you have seen?

Best wishes,
Eric

jphendren · February 14, 2013 1:18PM

Okay, I'm a newbie, I'll pass on this one then. My wife will be happy LOL.

"Is that really the best you have seen? "

I think so, most are a dark brown or gray color, which I don't find that attractive. I really like blue toning, so thought this would be a neat piece. I purchased a brown looking 1877 CC quarter that looked brown in the ebay images, but to my surprise when it arrived, it flashes a blue and copper color when moved around in sunlight.

jphendren · February 14, 2013 1:24PM

This is typically what I see, which I find boring and not as interesting the coin I was asking about.

magikbilly · February 14, 2013 1:28PM

Hi again,

Maybe as a newbie spend 1/3 the cost of the dime on some books such as the First Edition of the PCGS Grading Guide. There is a LOT of information presented in an easy format - covers a lot of the spectrum. The first edition has color plates too - and a section on toning with an image something like your dime as well as the other toning patterns people like and dislike.
DLRC has a decent 73-S in PCGS MS64 with green bean for $500/make an offer. Keep looking still.

Eric

Edit to add: That dime you just posted looks lackluster and is also a coin I would pass on - I do not like the surfaces. The first one, even if totally original encrusted tone - that print will kill it for many.

Here is my favorite brown to blue flasher. Was advertised with the left image (and priced around there as well)! The other image was already online in a Goldberg catalog. I was happy with my purchase.

Wooly · February 14, 2013 1:40PM

If I were you I'd slow way down. Go to a show, go to reputable dealer web page with good pics, go to B&M. Look and handle as many coins as you can. Then, if and when one catches your eye, it will be a fantastic purchase. Don't rush it, you be glad in the end.

WTCG · February 14, 2013 2:10PM

Beautiful toning is worth a premium. The hard part is knowing what type of toning constitutes beautiful toning and what type of toning is worth a premium.

Barberian · February 14, 2013 2:52PM

I agree with others that you might benefit from going to a coin show and looking at a variety of toned seated dimes to develop a sense of what's out there and what s appealing to most collectors. However, if you really really like the coin then whats a few extra dollars for a coin that you will always enjoy looking at? When you find a coin that speaks to you with it's surfaces and toning, I coin that you have to own, don't be afraid to pay over book or sheet value for it. The coins that give me the most enjoyment are usually the ones I've paid well over book value. My biggest regrets in this hobby is when I don't recognize how much I like a coin, don't bid accordingly, and then suffer the pain of losing it.

Elcontador · February 14, 2013 3:53PM

I have been collecting off and on since the 1960s.

1) Look at a lot of coins and decide what you want to collect and get an idea of what kind of money you would be comfortable spending. Don't even think about buying anything at this point.
2) Once you decide what you want to collect, you can ask people on this forum what book(s) should you have in your library. Buy and read these books. Don't even think about buying anything.
3) Now start looking at coins. See what you have learned from the books. Look at as many of the coins which interest you as possible. You will now start to put the knowledge of the books to use, re grading these coins, and deciding which coins are / are not nice for the grade, and why. If possible, try to attend a large show if one is near you. Try to make contacts - not people who want to sell you stuff, - people who want to make you a "smarter shopper."
4) Now, after seeing a fair number of coins and having a reasonable idea how to grade them (your contacts are valuable second set of eyes re a potential purchase), consider making a purchase or two.
5) By now, you have seen enough coins to get an idea of how a particular coin in a specific grade should look. You should also have an idea of what is considered attractive toning for what interests you.

I would not pay a toning premium unless said toning on the coin is universally accepted as being attractive. And I would never buy a coin with what I consider to be ugly toning. Many business strike type coins rarely have universally accepted attractive toning. Liberty Nickels, Barber Halves, and Liberty Standing Quarters come to mind.

And my most important rule of all - just because you have money to spend on coins does not mean you have to buy something, whether it be on the internet, a large show, etc.

magikbilly · February 14, 2013 4:02PM

<< <i>I have been collecting off and on since the 1960s.

1) Look at a lot of coins and decide what you want to collect and get an idea of what kind of money you would be comfortable spending. Don't even think about buying anything at this point.
2) Once you decide what you want to collect, you can ask people on this forum what book(s) should you have in your library. Buy and read these books. Don't even think about buying anything.
3) Now start looking at coins. See what you have learned from the books. Look at as many of the coins which interest you as possible. You will now start to put the knowledge of the books to use, re grading these coins, and deciding which coins are / are not nice for the grade, and why. If possible, try to attend a large show if one is near you. Try to make contacts - not people who want to sell you stuff, - people who want to make you a "smarter shopper."
4) Now, after seeing a fair number of coins and having a reasonable idea how to grade them (your contacts are valuable second set of eyes re a potential purchase), consider making a purchase or two.
5) By now, you have seen enough coins to get an idea of how a particular coin in a specific grade should look. You should also have an idea of what is considered attractive toning for what interests you.

I would not pay a toning premium unless said toning on the coin is universally accepted as being attractive. And I would never buy a coin with what I consider to be ugly toning. Many business strike type coins rarely have universally accepted attractive toning. Liberty Nickels, Barber Halves, and Liberty Standing Quarters come to mind.

And my most important rule of all - just because you have money to spend on coins does not mean you have to buy something, whether it be on the internet, a large show, etc. >>

This. Well, all of it. Sage advice. Take it I say

Eric

Steve27 · February 14, 2013 7:25PM

<< <i>Hopefully posting this doesn't break any rules. It is graded AU 58 by PCGS, I consider the toning to be very attractive, maybe others will not.

>>

That's called ugly toning; you should be able to buy that one below bid.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 14, 2013 9:10PM

If I LOVED, no price is enough to let go of the love. An object of desire is worth what one is willing to pay... and there is a lot of desire for TONED COINS.

"if" is the operative word. Love is the opposite of desire, in my book. One is free , the other enslaves. It's like ADDICTION compared to PASSION. I think too deep and that's why I normally edit my posts.
I don't know how people can speak two languages. I haven't mastered English, yet.

In other news, today I am 58. Post a premium quality coin ( toned coin ) and help me love again.

edited to add parenthesis, as opposed to antithesis.

mkman123 · February 15, 2013 12:20AM

Listen to Tom and others, you sometimes will need to pay up for a coin with pretty color........ask AB, he pays way over bid for monster morgans. Also coins don't have to have pretty color............it can just have nice surfaces, nice overall look, etc and it should cost more. Remember not all coins of the same grade look the same.....example, XF40, some are dipped, some are net graded, etc so 9 coins which have the grade of XF40 might not all look the same.

jphendren · February 15, 2013 12:21AM

Thanks for the advice guys. I have been into coins on and off since I was a kid back in the early 80's. I was born and raised in Nevada, and have always been a major Nevada/mining camp history buff. So I naturally gravitate to Carson City coins and their Virginia City ties. I was originally planning to do a 13 piece CC Morgan set in whatever grade I could afford, so I purchased Rusty Goe's book "The Mint on Carson Street." I've read that book, along with "Carson City Morgan Dollars: Featuring the Coins of the GSA Hoard." Both good books. Rusty Goe's book also steered me to thinking a nice CC silver and possibly later gold type set would be neat. I really like the seated coins as well as Morgan Dollars. I bought a couple of raw 1879 CC Morgans from the local coin shop, one "Perfect CC" in F12 grade, and the other a VAM 3 in around VF20. I've stared at these two coins till my eyes hurt, and believe I have a pretty good feel of what a F12 and VF20 should look like as far as details go. I've also discovered that even when certified by PCGS or NGC, that each grade covers a lot of ground as far as details and eye appeal go. Silver coins can have so many looks. I have to admit that for me buying off of the internet is not exciting, I prefer to go and "hunt" for coins, see what turns up at the local coin shop or coin show. A few weeks ago I picked up my first seated coin, an 1877 CC Seated Quarter in NGC VF25. I would like to collect nice high grade coins like some of you, but due to budget constraints and the high price points of CC coins will have to settle for nice F-VF grade coins for the most part. I definitely have a long way to go on my education of CC coins, so thanks for saving me from making that $295 mistake! The local coin dealer has given me quite a bit of the same advice as you have. He recommends sticking to one series and mastering it before moving on. He also recommended that I read every book on Morgan Dollars I could find before buying any coins from him. When doing a type set, how do you master every type of coin that the Carson City Mint struck? I will only need one dime, one quarter, etc...

Jared

ricko · February 15, 2013 2:15AM

One more opinion.....If I really liked and wanted a coin, I would pay a premium. That being said, I would never pay a premium for tarnish...that is my personal line in the sand. I just do not like tarnish, no matter what it looks like. That is different than 'crust'... that I accept. That specific coin would not be a candidate for my money. Cheers, RickO

RichieURich · February 15, 2013 2:26AM

<< <i>Beautiful toning is worth a premium. The hard part is knowing what type of toning constitutes beautiful toning and what type of toning is worth a premium. >>

I agree with WTCG. I wouldn't pay a premium for the toning on the 1877-CC dime shown by the OP.

I would, and did, pay a premium for this coin. And the buyer of it paid a premium also. Edit to add: 1841-O half PCGS MS-63 ex Eliasberg.

Unknown · February 15, 2013 2:42AM

This content has been removed.

GeorgeKellogg · February 15, 2013 2:51AM

Yes, I will (and have). This is routinely done in the marketplace for beautifully toned Morgan Dollars. Here is a non-Morgan that I purchased for a premium over the "catalog" price. For the record, the piece is in a PCGS AU55 old green holder (and has a gold CAC sticker). The photo is courtesy of Coin Rarities Online.

grip · February 15, 2013 3:28AM

Great advice from all the above.I consider this toning to be desirable.

jphendren · February 15, 2013 3:34AM

I found this on Heritage, it is the same coin that I was considering. It has much better images of the coin.

Heritage 1877 CC dime

Jared

Elcontador · February 15, 2013 4:00AM

Sorry. The reverse looks okay, but to me, the obverse of the coin is unacceptable. The fingerprint and the toning would make me not interested in it. This is not a difficult coin to find. You can do better.

spy88 · February 15, 2013 4:15AM

Personally, I don't see the tone you see (the picture?). Even tho you say there is brown/blue to it, I must agree with the others that think there are partial fingerprints on both sides.

Usually, it's very easy to tell the difference but sometimes, there will be honest patina toning and prints. The oil will do nothing but make the coin get fuglier and fuglier as time goes on.

grip · February 15, 2013 4:32AM

Maybe he has a problem perceiving color.

MFH · February 15, 2013 5:33AM

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but it seems an awful lot of good advice is being given here.
Everyone says keep looking. Remember, in a few years when the "bloom is off the rose" you'll be
looking to sell it... Looks like no one is buying, either.

BTW: GRIP & RICHUHRICH - where you found those coins must have been a well hidden secret.
Nice toys, boys.

thisnamztaken · February 15, 2013 8:18AM

<< <i>Great advice from all the above.I consider this toning to be desirable.

>>

Very nice toning there Grip, and the proof-like fields don't harm it either.

bolivarshagnasty · February 15, 2013 1:26PM

And in my opinion, this is another example of acceptable/desirable toning on a Barber halve. This would have been caused by a long term stint in an album of some kind.

Pay a premium for a coin with pretty color?

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