Silver Libertas Americana medal

cardinal · September 22, 2012 2:22PM

At the Philadelphia ANA I had the good fortune to pick up an original silver example of the Libertas Americana medal, and my good fortune extended when it crossed over to PCGS at the show.

Here is it, thanks to the photographic genius of TrueView:

I also found a (somewhat) related, but very peculiar "trial piece" on display at the show. I took a number of photos of it at the show, hoping that at least one would be decent:

A most peculiar item, but I have to say it piqued my curiousity, after having already seen a copy of the 1783 Hibernian Magazine article regarding the Libertas Americana medal, and the image published therein:

Did anyone else see the trial piece at the show? I have tried to identify the other stampings present on the piece. The upper left image looks to me to be very similar (though in mirror image) to the Franklin Natus Medal; the middle left seems to be Montagny's bust of Napoleon Bonaparte; and the lower left looks to me like the lion used on 1790's Sierre Leone Company coinage. I haven't a clue as to the other stampings. Any guesses??

--Cardinal
Libertas Americana Showcase

coinsarefun · September 22, 2012 2:40PM

Words escape me!!!!!
Just stunning and congratulations on one of the most beautifully designed medals ever designed......anywhere!!!

blu62vette · September 22, 2012 2:46PM

Wow, just wow.

morgansforever · September 22, 2012 3:07PM

A silver example in PR65 is in the $150k range right? Your pockets must be deep, good for you.
The only thing better than the silver is the gold, which 2 were struck I believe.
For the gold you'll need investors or a Buffet net worth to even think about it.
I would settle for a well worn copper example. Awesome piece of Americana.

cardinal · September 22, 2012 3:17PM

<< A silver example in PR65 is in the $150k range right? Your pockets must be deep, good for you.
>>

I once had a PR65 examples, but sold it long ago. I really like the new one I picked up, but it does have its share of handling marks that keep it from those ranks.

ianrussell · September 22, 2012 3:21PM

Cardinal - thank you for showing me the medal at the ANA. Phenomenal item.

PS. And congrats on the crossing. Probably added $10k in value.

- Ian

PCGSPhoto · September 22, 2012 3:27PM

I always have fun photographing these.

MidLifeCrisis · September 22, 2012 3:32PM

Excellent!

Swampboy · September 22, 2012 3:47PM

DUIGUY · September 22, 2012 4:08PM

Dem Foouckker's Aini't Cheap!!!

Zoins · September 22, 2012 4:14PM

<< Libertas American Showcase >>

Congrats on a great medal and registry set!

It's pretty cool to see Phil's photos for the various restrikes too!

coinsarefun · September 22, 2012 4:15PM

<< I always have fun photographing these. >>

Next time one comes across promise me to let me come down and watch

illini420 · September 22, 2012 4:27PM

WOW

stealer · September 22, 2012 4:43PM

<< I always have fun photographing these. >>

I would be scared of dropping it if I were the photographer

savoyspecial · September 22, 2012 4:53PM

I have but a small contribution to this awesome thread.....An electrotype I once owned:

Great post as always, Cardinal!

Justlooking · September 22, 2012 5:04PM

As good as it gets. Bravo!

Trime · September 22, 2012 6:08PM

Cardinal,
Great medl and terrific post. The news article and the trial piece adde extra value to the possession of the medal and add definition to a "True numismatist"

determined · September 22, 2012 6:21PM

Wow! Now that is Early American History in hand!

The info I found on the silver pieces is -

"The original pieces were struck in gold, silver and copper. The gold medals were presented to the King and Queen of France and were probably lost during the French Revolution. The silver pieces were presented to high dignitaries such as George Washington and the president of the Continental Congress. Copper pieces, went to lower level dignitaries, such as the members of the Continental Congress."

I wonder who was the original recipient of your silver medal?

And that there is an estimated 30 to 35 original silver medals known to exist. And 100 to 125 original copper medals known to exist.

Can you say any more about what that "trial piece" is? Size? And just what is it?

I've always wanted a Libertas Americana medal, (a singularly original aspiration I know), but they are now out of my budget.

LochNESS · September 22, 2012 8:26PM

To the OP: awesome, simply gorgeous. Thank you for sharing!!!

To Zoins...

<< 

<< Libertas American Showcase >>

>>

My jaw is on the floor

The silver proof is my favorite.

CaptHenway · September 22, 2012 10:21PM

THAT's Entertainment!

coinhunters · September 22, 2012 10:36PM

Both of those pieces are a spectacular addition to anyone's collection. Cheers to you !!

cardinal · September 23, 2012 12:34AM

<< Can you say any more about what that "trial piece" is? Size? And just what is it?
>>

The "trial piece" is approximately 72.5mm x 53.5mm. Using Photo Shop, and cutting out the portraits to compare them side by side, I find that the two portraits are essentially identical in size:

Adding to the intrigue of this piece is the connection with Benjamin Franklin. Franklin is clearly documented as having been responsible for the creation of the Libertas Americana medals. It is also documented that French medalist Augustin Dupre was part of that process. Dupre is also credited with the "Franklin Natus Medal," struck in 1786 as a tribute to Franklin's 80th birthday. Here is a comparison of the Natus medal with the stamping on the trial piece:

Cocoinut · September 23, 2012 1:12AM

Cardinal,

A fantastic example of a beautiful design!!!

Congratulations!

Jim

Baley · September 23, 2012 1:14AM

The trial piece is fascinating!

I've always thought the cap and pole looked like a "squeezed-in afterthought" with the wrong size (scale), angle, and appearance (simplified, stiff and gravity-defying)

The trial piece would explain this, as it looks like the cap and pole was literally added after the main flowing hair head, and in the space available between the other devices on the trial piece... like it was scratched or engraved in, rather than the method for the rest of the piece (is it cast?)

and then this "economy" was translated from the trial piece to the final medal, and on both of which, looks more like a shovel than a hat on a stick.

Wonderful medal, these comments in no way are meant to take away from its spectacularness, the trial piece might hold a key to understanding this feature, very cool

pursuitofliberty · September 23, 2012 1:37AM

Cardinal ... first ... Thank you so much for sharing your SPECTACULAR newp with us!!

When I first saw this last night I was speechless. Wow, just WOW!!!

Bailey, that is a VERY interesting observation. I hope it gains some legs in thought and input from some of the early specialists. I have long admired the design, but also ahve long thought the cap and pole looked out of place to an extent. An afterthought as you pose.

LindeDad · September 23, 2012 1:41AM

Thanks again for sharing your treasures.

Sonorandesertrat · September 23, 2012 2:55AM

"...the middle left seems to be Montagny's bust of Napoleon Bonaparte"

That is the first thing that occurred to me when I saw that image.

Didn't the original gold Libertas medals disappear during the French Revolution? The gold medals that I am aware of are 19th-century restrikes.

RYK · September 23, 2012 3:02AM

Awesome display and discussion. It's like an online museum!

Zoins · September 23, 2012 3:06AM

<< Didn't the original gold Libertas medals disappear during the French Revolution? >>

That's the theory I heard. I wouldn't be surprised if they were melted down at the time but it was be exciting if they were rediscovered.

<< The gold medals that I am aware of are 19th-century restrikes. >>

I'm aware of the 20th and 21st century restrikes. I'm curious to know more about the 19th century ones.

DorkGirl · September 23, 2012 3:11AM

Beautiful!

I recognize Ben, Napoleon, the Lion of Leone, but the water goddess/nymph (that is water coming from the jug, right?) eludes me, and the impression in the upper left hand corner is too faint to see.

Unknown · September 23, 2012 3:21AM

This content has been removed.

Sonorandesertrat · September 23, 2012 3:51AM

Zoins,
I don't know the details regarding early restrikes. However, I recall seeing a mention of a gold Libertas Americana medal in a late 19th-century auction catalog. Unfortunately, I cannot remember which sale it was in. I assume that the medal was gold, rather than merely gold-plated.

Coinosaurus · September 23, 2012 4:31AM

Thanks for posting. I heard at the show about this piece but never had time to go look at it. And congrats on the purchase of the silver strike.

Zoins · September 23, 2012 6:25AM

<< Zoins,
I don't know the details regarding early restrikes. However, I recall seeing a mention of a gold Libertas Americana medal in a late 19th-century auction catalog. Unfortunately, I cannot remember which sale it was in. I assume that the medal was gold, rather than merely gold-plated. >>

Very interesting Sonorandesertrat. I'd love to see a 19th century gold restrike. I wonder if those were minted and, if so, are still in existence.

Eagleguy · September 23, 2012 6:48AM

JH

Matrix1980 · September 23, 2012 7:31AM

WOW!!! Awesome coin!!! Enjoy your national treasure!!!

Justacommeman · September 23, 2012 7:36AM

I knew opening this thread would be a treat. Just wow...............MJ

SeattleSlammer · September 23, 2012 8:49AM

Takes the

!

Rayman311 · September 23, 2012 10:44AM

Stunning! Congratulations on your good fortune!

jmski52 · September 23, 2012 11:16AM

WOW!!! Awesome coin!!! Enjoy your national treasure!!!

My sentiments exactly.

coindeuce · September 23, 2012 11:29AM

This thread is one of the very few here that give me butterflies in my stomach when I see what is presented for sharing.

Merci beaucoup!

Augustin · February 22, 2021 3:06PM

seems to be a part of Dupre's medal "Canal de Picardie" (1785)

MsMorrisine · February 22, 2021 3:15PM

great find

ricko · February 23, 2021 8:28AM

That trial piece would be an incredible piece of material to have... represents so many images that eventually made it to a coin. Cheers, RickO

BillJones · February 23, 2021 9:09AM

Here is my humble example in bronze.

When I started my Cometia Americana set of medals circa 1980, a dealer had a silver Libertas Americana medal for sale at the Bay State Show in Boston for $5 to $6 thousand. I don't remember exactly, but it was beyond my ability to pay at the time.

Crypto · February 23, 2021 10:51AM

While @BillJones may be humble, his coins almost never are. I would like to just reiterate how much your first hand anecdotes of the hobby though the years add to this board and you knowledge is clearly represented in the quality of your collection. Thank you

cardinal · February 23, 2021 5:10PM

@Augustin said:

seems to be a part of Dupre's medal "Canal de Picardie" (1785)

Thanks Augustin! I never thought that I would see the that element on a medal. Kudos and thanks to you!

Augustin · February 24, 2021 12:52AM

@cardinal said:

@Augustin said:

seems to be a part of Dupre's medal "Canal de Picardie" (1785)

Thanks Augustin! I never thought that I would see the that element on a medal. Kudos and thanks to you!

it seems that it is in relief but I am wary of optical illusions. Can you confirm?

cardinal · February 24, 2021 11:29AM

@Augustin said:

@cardinal said:

@Augustin said:

seems to be a part of Dupre's medal "Canal de Picardie" (1785)

Thanks Augustin! I never thought that I would see the that element on a medal. Kudos and thanks to you!

it seems that it is in relief but I am wary of optical illusions. Can you confirm?

Yes, that piece is all in relief, except for the Montangy signature.

scubafuel · February 24, 2021 11:56AM

Hi @cardinal , how about the liberty cap and pole? They look engraved but it may be tricking my eye.

cardinal · February 24, 2021 12:15PM

@scubafuel said:
Hi @cardinal , how about the liberty cap and pole? They look engraved but it may be tricking my eye.

The entirety of the piece is all in relief, with just the Montangy signature engraved.

Silver Libertas Americana medal

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