2012 SF Giants discussion: NL West Champs

WTCG · May 11, 2012 6:33PM

<< Well, win or loose, the current Giants front office drafts well. The worse the year, the better the pick.

So, the Freddy Sanchez story has the org looking to see if they can convert him into a 3rd baseman for the short term.

Outside of converting a shortstop prospect, there's no real organizational depth at 2nd.

Think they'll deal for a long-term solution at 2nd before the season's over? >>

It doesn't matter if the front office drafts well. Sabean has that habit of trading good prospects for over-the-hill veterans. The one veteran he did trade for last year, Carlos Beltran, is tearing it up in St. Louis. He's produced more on offense than the entire Giants outfield. Not re-signing him was a huge mistake.

Remember last year when the front office thought getting Posey and Sanchez back would solve the offense problems? Posey's back and so far he hasn't been the gamechanger everyone expected. Sanchez? I think his career is a big question mark. If he ever comes back he'll probably play at most three games out of ten. Are there any decent 2nd basemen who may become available this year or at the end of the year?

Brandon Crawford needs to go. Seems like he makes at least one error every game and couldn't hit lefty pitching if his life depended on it.

digicat · May 12, 2012 1:37AM

<< Sabean has that habit of trading good prospects for over-the-hill veterans. >>

I don't think he's done that enough to call it a habit. Who are the prospects, besides Wheeler, who we let slip by?

<< Remember last year when the front office thought getting Posey and Sanchez back would solve the offense problems? >>

Posey stopped hitting when Pablo went down. Sanchez is a lost cause. His future is probably as a DH somewhere in the AL.

Giants gambled on Freddy, and it didn't pan out. Giants need to make a move at 2nd.

digicat · May 12, 2012 1:27PM

Giants need to find a way to put Matt Cain in the lineup every day...

digicat · May 13, 2012 4:22AM

Well, looks like the Giants want to test the theory that they have no depth at 2nd in the farm. Today they've called up Charlie Culberson from AAA.

Culberson was a supplemental pick out of High School in the 1st round of the 2007 draft.

When I said the Giants draft well, this draft kinda proves me otherwise. The Giants had 6 picks in the 1st round of that draft, 1 regular pick, 2 compensation picks, and 3 supplemental picks. Their first pick was MadBum, so they get an A+ there. Their 2nd pick was Tim Alderson, who was flipped for Freddy Sanchez. Freddy helped win a World Series, but he's spent the rest of the time injured. Alderson's not a prospect anymore and still hasn't cracked the majors.
Their 3rd pick was outfielder Wendell Fairley, who has yet to get out of AA. He's a .261/.345/.332 hitter in 5 seasons of AA and lower ball.
The 4th pick was infielder Nick Noonan, who's .262/.318/.371 in his time in the Giants farm system. Currently at AAA.
5th was catcher Jackson Williams, who's .209/.305/.308 in the minors. No bat, but his defense is good. He's in AAA now, and always gets a spring training invite. I guess he's Chris Stewart w/o MLB experience or something.
Culberson was the 6th pick. He's a .263/.314/.383 hitter through his tour of the farm, and was batting .284/.320/.496 in Fresno so far this season. He's a strikeout machine though. In his 6 years in the minors, he's walked 132 times and struck out 461 times.

Anyways, Gillaspie was sent down to make room for Culberson, so I think Arias has won the job until Panda comes back.

Also, Affeldt was activated and Blackley was DFA'ed.

2007 Donruss Elite Extra Edition Aspirations #/100 AU

WTCG · May 13, 2012 2:06PM

Good to see the sucking has subsided for the last two days. On a day I figured the Giants would get massacred their bats finally show a little life.

How about the SS position? It seems like a Brandon Crawford error is a daily occurrence and he could barely hit water if he jumped into a swimming pool. Is he the long term answer to that position or should something else be done?

WTCG · May 13, 2012 2:10PM

<< Who are the prospects, besides Wheeler, who we let slip by?

Posey stopped hitting when Pablo went down. Sanchez is a lost cause. His future is probably as a DH somewhere in the AL.

Giants gambled on Freddy, and it didn't pan out. Giants need to make a move at 2nd. >>

I was thinking of Alderson. I guess that wasn't a raw deal because Alderson hasn't panned out. When Lincecum was in the farm system wasn't he nearly traded for some old codger?

The Freddy Sanchez deal wasn't a total loss. He was great in 2010 and that alone is worth something. I think his career is in real jeopardy at this time.

digicat · May 13, 2012 2:10PM

<< How about the SS position? It seems like a Brandon Crawford error is a daily occurrence and he could barely hit water if he jumped into a swimming pool. Is he the long term answer to that position or should something else be done? >>

My prediction is that when Panda comes back, Crawford goes to Fresno and Arias takes over SS.

Crawford's one of those weird guys who'll make all the hard plays, but boot the easy ones. I don't understand it.

digicat · May 13, 2012 4:32PM

<< I was thinking of Alderson. I guess that wasn't a raw deal because Alderson hasn't panned out. When Lincecum was in the farm system wasn't he nearly traded for some old codger? >>

There was a RUMOR that the Giants were interested in Alex Rios from the Jays a long time ago. Sabean asked the Jays what their asking price was, and they were told Rios would cost either Lincecum or Cain. Giants brass hung up the phone after that. So, it wasn't anything the Giants ever considered.

The only trade that really ended up hurting due to the impact players we lost was the Pierzynski trade.

Giants coughed up top prospect Francisco Liriano, reliver Joe Nathan, and minor league pitcher Boof Bonser to get A.J.

A.J. hit .272/.319/.410 in his one season as a Giant, and lead the NL in grounding into double plays. He then flipped off the Bay Area and went to the White Sox and won a World Series the next year.

Liriano has battled injuries for his whole career, but turned out a few nice seasons.

Nathan had just put together a pretty nice relief pitcher season and became an All Star closer for the Twins.

Giants struggled at closer for 4 seasons after that before Brian Wilson emerged.

Of course, one could always argue that this trade helped set up the 06, 07, and 08 drafts where we picked Lincecum, Bumgraner, and Posey.

digicat · May 14, 2012 10:02AM

<< The Freddy Sanchez deal wasn't a total loss. He was great in 2010 and that alone is worth something. I think his career is in real jeopardy at this time. >>

It's being reported that Freddy Sanchez is "at the point where he can't do anything" and is getting further MRI's done. He's got the money, he's got a batting title, he's got a ring, and he has a wife and small children at home. There's no reason for him to torture himself further to try and get on the field.

If Culberson isn't a major leaguer, I think the Giants will push hard to trade for a real 2nd baseman before the deadline. The 2013 FA market looks sorta bleak. I just hope the Giants don't over-spend.

WTCG · May 14, 2012 11:08AM

<< If Culberson isn't a major leaguer, I think the Giants will push hard to trade for a real 2nd baseman before the deadline. The 2013 FA market looks sorta bleak. I just hope the Giants don't over-spend. >>

Which 2nd basemen would possibly be available this year or be available in FA at the end of the year and what might the Giants have to offer in a trade?

digicat · May 15, 2012 5:33PM

This .500 baseball sucks. Not good enough to advance, and not bad enough to get a top-flight draft pick. Mediocrity personified.

WTCG · May 16, 2012 3:10PM

Here's about every loss and this season in a nutshell: Errors + bad defense + no clutch hitting = Losing.

When other teams are down by two runs it's a close game. When the Giants are down by two runs the game's over.

digicat · May 16, 2012 4:05PM

The Giants offence consists of exactly 3 major league hitters right now: Melky, Pagan, and Posey. Blanco might be something too.

It's also annoying when bullpen cashes in all the inherited runners on the first batter.

digicat · May 18, 2012 5:26AM

So, current rumors have:

1) Giants made an offer to Melvin Mora, to come off his couch at home and suit up
2) Giants are looking at Orlando Hudson.

Oh! The pain!!!

bking · May 18, 2012 5:30AM

<< 
Of course, one could always argue that this trade helped set up the 06, 07, and 08 drafts where we picked Lincecum, Bumgraner, and Posey. >>

Well, yeah. There is that....

WTCG · May 18, 2012 5:37AM

<< So, current rumors have:

1) Giants made an offer to Melvin Mora, to come off his couch at home and suit up
2) Giants are looking at Orlando Hudson.

Oh! The pain!!! >>

I almost did a spittake when I heard about Orlando Hudson. What's worse than an infielder hitting around .210? An over the hill infielder hitting .210. Giants don't need an infielder who can't hit. Plenty of those on the roster already.

digicat · May 18, 2012 7:58AM

Jason Stark reports hearing from other baseball execs that the Giants are putting out feelers for a "legit corner outfield bopper".

I've heard SD's Carlos Quentin's name (recovering from knee surgery) mentioned. The Cubs are always open to parting with Alfonso Soriano as long as someone takes his contract too ($18mil /year through 2014).

The Red Sox have this guy named Cody Ross who's batting .262/.338/.500 with 7 homers and 27 rbi. He could probably help the Giants....

digicat · May 18, 2012 4:16PM

That was a scary game today. I'd be content to not see Steve Edlefson pitch for the Giants anymore this year.

Giants signed RHP Brad Penny to a minor league deal today too. He's running through extended-spring-training in AZ and then Fresno, but is expected to be called up as soon as he's ready. So, Edlefson's days are numbered.

However, I'm not sure how much Penny has left. He began the season in Japan, but asked to be released after 1 game where he got blasted.

How'd he do in that 1 game?
3.1 ip, 7 hits, 3 walks, 1 strikeout, and 6 runs (4 earned).

I also missed this a few days ago: Surkamp experienced a "setback" in his rehab, and now Tommy John surgery is on the table. That could also be another reason why they're nabbing a pitcher: rotation depth.

digicat · May 19, 2012 3:57PM

Well, the bad rumors seem to be past us. Hudson signed with the White Sox, and the Giants are denying ever making Melvin Mora an offer.

It seems like Brandon Crawford's figured something out, and he's thriving as the #2 hitter. He's hitting .300 over his last 10 games.

I like what I'm seeing from Vogelsong. This was his 4th start in a row where he's pitched 7 or more, and given up 1 earned run or less. He's 2-1 in those 4 starts.

digicat · May 20, 2012 9:27AM

Timmy's entering Jonathan Sanchez land: strong first time through the order, then falls apart.

Is it fatigue? Declining stuff? What gives?

digicat · May 20, 2012 9:34AM

Giants record behind it's starters:

Cain = 5-3
Bumgarner = 5-3
Zito = 5-3
Vogelsong = 4-3
Lincecum = 2-7
Hacker = 0-1

21-20

digicat · May 21, 2012 4:42PM

Not a lot of offence today, but one thing's for certain, you wouldn't be able to say this last year: Giants scored their runs on a 3 run homer by the catcher in the 1st, then a solo shot by the backup catcher in the 14th.

digicat · May 22, 2012 5:24AM

It's unusual and funny when a closer ends up with an AB...

OMG, he's throwing a baseball near me!

Barry Bonds swing

WTCG · May 22, 2012 5:36AM

<< It's unusual and funny when a closer ends up with an AB...

OMG, he's throwing a baseball near me!

Barry Bonds swing

>>

Remember his at-bat in Florida last year? At least he swung this time.

digicat · May 22, 2012 5:37AM

<< Remember his at-bat last in Florida last year? At least he swung this time. >>

If I remember correctly, he drew a walk. Heh.

digicat · May 22, 2012 4:26PM

Posey's 2 run shot

Wow, I love the loud BANG the score-board made when the ball hit it. That looked to be 50+ feet up from the field, in dead center.

Posey's got 6 HRs in 6 games at Miller Park in his short career.

Posey, Melky, an Pagan are on fire right now. This is fun!

WTCG · May 22, 2012 5:16PM

<< Posey's 2 run shot

Wow, I love the loud BANG the score-board made when the ball hit it. That looked to be 50+ feet up from the field, in dead center.

Posey's got 6 HRs in 6 games at Miller Park in his short career.

Posey, Melky, an Pagan are on fire right now. This is fun! >>

On CNSBA they said that scoreboard shot was a 438-footer. Remember that ground-rule double Posey hit at AT&T the other day? That was a 410+ foot shot. At any other ballpark that would've been a goner.

Tonight Cain got a bit roughed up but he was able to pitch his way out of innings without too much damage. Finally the offense seems to be clicking a little better and the bullpen can hold its own.

Zito pitches tomorrow. How long has it been since fans have felt confident going into a game that Zito is scheduled to take the rubber?

digicat · May 22, 2012 5:26PM

<< On CNSBA they said that scoreboard shot was a 438-footer. >>

And it hit a point on the scoreboard that was 50+ feet in the air. MONSTER shot. That would have hit the scoreboard at AT&T on a dry day.

<< Tonight Cain got a bit roughed up but he was able to pitch his way out of innings without too much damage. >>

They're making up for all those times he got Cain'd in the past.

Still, this year...

0-1 runs allowed: 2-0, 1 nd
2-3 runs allowed: 0-2, 1 nd
4+ runs allowed: 2-0, 1 nd

digicat · May 23, 2012 3:51AM

<< How long has it been since fans have felt confident going into a game that Zito is scheduled to take the rubber? >>

Never. I expect Zito to get shelled every time.

On the flip side, I expect to see Lincecum sharpen it up and go out and deal.

As a write this, the Brewers have tagged Zito for 6 runs (4 unearned due to his and Craw's errors) in the bottom of the first. The opposing pitcher injured himself while hitting a 2 run double and is now out of the game.

Looks like the bullpens will take over this game.

WTCG · May 23, 2012 4:22AM

It's the third inning and the real Barry Zito has showed up.

It seems like a Crawford error is a daily ritual. This guy needs to shape up fast or be shipped off to Fresno permanently.

digicat · May 23, 2012 4:24AM

The real Zito showed up at first pitch.

8-3 now? Might get interesting.

digicat · May 23, 2012 6:50AM

Welp, 8-5. Another Zito disaster movie, staring Barry Zito as "Suck McSuckson" and Brandon Crawford as his trusty robot sidekick "E6."

digicat · May 23, 2012 10:17AM

Culberson's getting sent down and Theriot is getting activated off the DL. Theriot gives us an option not named "Burriss," who's making a case to get DFA'ed.

Once Panda gets back, Arias will move his slick glove and awakening bat to 2nd where he'll fill that hole.

Going down the positions:

CF = Pagan = Solid.
LF = Cabrera = All Star.
RF = Blanco, jury is still out.

3b = Sandoval = solid.
SS = Crawford, an elite glove plagued by rookie mistakes. He'll grow with experience.
2b = Arias, if he can keep the work up, he'll be fine.
1b = Pill / Belt / Huff:

C = Posey = All Star.

If the Giants wanted to go make the most out of an upgrade, the weakest spots on the team are 1st base, 2b, and SS. If Arias can keep doing what he's doing, then he can stay at 2b. SS and 1b both are manned by rookies/young players who have not proven that they can do anything. I'm a huge Brandon Belt fan, but even I think that maybe it's time for him go down to Fresno so he can slow it down and find his groove again.

Who's out there to be gotten though? There's not really anyone down on the farm who's screaming "pick me!" with their performance.

digicat · May 24, 2012 4:15AM

Hmm, a kid in Fresno is making some noise this season. Roger Kieschnick (OF) was drafted in the 3rd round of the 2008 draft (the Posey draft).

2009, he raked in San Jose, hitting 23 hr, 110 rbi, and batting .296/.345/.532. However, his he walked only 36 times, and struckout 130 times.
In 2010, his season was cut short by a back injury that required surgery. His recovery was slow, and carried over into the next season. In all, he played 186 games in 2010 and 2011, hitting 20 hr, driving in 88, and hitting .254/.307/.409, with 52 walks and 176 strikeouts. Late in the season, the Giants added him to the 40 man roster to protect him from the Rule 5 draft.

This season he began in Fresno, and is raking. 13 hr, 33 rbi, .333/.407/.656, and 23 walks to 52 strikeouts.

Scouting reports say that his outfield defense is above-average.

PCL power doesn't really translate to SF power though. Just look at past SF power hitting prospects like John Bowker, Todd Linden, and Damon Minor. They killed it in in the PCL, but flopped in SF.

Then again, Buster Posey did, but he's "The Chosen One."

Maybe we'll see this guy in SF at some point this year.

digicat · May 24, 2012 1:25PM

Nice to see the G-Men finally knock Anibal Sanchez around.

1-1 tie going into the 6th, 14-7 by the end of the game. CRAZY!

digicat · May 25, 2012 3:29AM

6 PA is a small sample size, but it's still fun to see it.

Sergio Romo vs Rickie Weeks:

6 plate appearances, 6 swinging strikeouts. 0 foul balls.

digicat · May 25, 2012 6:50AM

Well, 1 year after Posey's season ending injury, his numbers to start the season are impressive, but not quite 2010:

2011: 185 pa, 46 hits, 5 doubles, 4 HR, 21 RBI, 18 walks, 30 so. .284/.368/.389
2012: 161 pa, 44 hits, 8 doubles, 6 HR, 23 RBI, 15 walks, 30 so. .306/.373/.486

Behind the plate, he's a little rustier.

In 2011, he threw out 36% of the runners attempting to steal, this year he's gotten 22% of them. I don't know if that's just rust, or if it's something the injury took from him.

digicat · May 25, 2012 7:03AM

Apparently moving around the batting order has improved numbers for a few guys:

Crawford in the 2 hole: .278/.350/.361 vs .217/.265/.321.
Pagan batting 3rd: .444/.474/.644, vs .287/.352/.404 in the 2 hole

Pagan's also doing very well hitting 5th vs batting leadoff:
leadoff: .241/.261/.420
5th: .426/.472/.532

With Crawford doing better and Melky on fire, Posey's cranked it up too.

When Sandoval comes back, where do you put him to maximize the damage the lineup can do?

WTCG · May 25, 2012 8:10AM

Last night is was good to see them beat Anibal Sanchez for the first time ever. In his previous three starts he was 3-0 and completely owned the Giants. Hopefully they didn't score all the runs for their road trip all in one night.

Who do you have as potential all stars? I see Melky and Posey. How about the pitchers...MadBum, Cain or Vogelsong?

digicat · May 25, 2012 8:45AM

<< Who do you have as potential all stars? I see Melky and Posey. How about the pitchers...MadBum, Cain or Vogelsong? >>

I think Melky and Posey are worthy.

As for pitchers, I think Cain's the only lock, but Bum and Vogelsong are also having worthy seasons.

WTCG · May 25, 2012 11:23AM

More sucking from Lincecum. He came in to tonight's game with an ERA over 6 and since then it's actually gone up! Not good.

Maybe it's all a ploy to make Barry Zito look better in the eyes of fans or he's making himself cheaper when he's up for a new contract in two years.

digicat · May 25, 2012 11:42AM

<< Is it too late to trade him for anything worthwhile? >>

Giving up on him already? I'm glad you're not the GM.

I don't think he's totally busted, but there's something wrong that no one's figured out yet. I think they'll get it figured out at some point. The sooner the better though.

WTCG · May 25, 2012 11:54AM

<< 

<< Is it too late to trade him for anything worthwhile? >>

Giving up on him already? I'm glad you're not the GM.

I don't think he's totally busted, but there's something wrong that no one's figured out yet. I think they'll get it figured out at some point. The sooner the better though. >>

He's had bad streaks in the past but this time it feels different. Don't know if others see this but he looks labored and worn out. He's had all season to figure things out and for the most part he seems to be regressing further as the season goes on. Because of what he's done in the past he's getting a free pass from fans but this can't go on. If he was making 2011 Jonathan Sanchez money that would be one thing but he is the highest paid (and highest profile) player on the team.

Maybe the Giants not signing him long term last spring was a blessing in disguise. The money set aside could now go towards the MelkMan fund.

As for the rest of the team, Brandon Crawford is hitting better (which isn't saying much) but his defense gives me the willies and I'm not sold on him. Brandon Belt? Although watching him play has me believing so, I keep wanting to believe that he isn't a bust.

Good thing the Melky and Pagan transactions panned out. Imagine the team without those two right now.

digicat · May 25, 2012 12:39PM

<< Don't know if others see this but he looks labored and worn out. >>

That would be awesome if it's just a conditioning issue. That can be fixed.

The kid is a string bean, and he lost 20 lbs over the off-season. That weight probably came out of the wrong places.

But I'm not an athletic trainer, so WTF do I know.

digicat · May 25, 2012 1:05PM

On the bright side, he was getting 93 and 94 on his fastball today. His command was off though, and that cost him.

Command is either mental or mechanical. It's kinda hard to imagine that a guy with 2 Cy Young Awards and a WS ring in his first 4 years in MLB would suddenly get the yips though, but he's hanging sliders and throwing curve balls that stay up.

I still think he'll figure it out, but it's disheartening to watch the process.

Who knows? Maybe he wants one of those ESPN "Cy Yuck" Awards to put on his mantle?

WTCG · May 25, 2012 2:00PM

<< It's kinda hard to imagine that a guy with 2 Cy Young Awards and a WS ring in his first 4 years in MLB would suddenly get the yips though >>

Barry Zito. A Cy Young recepient and an overall elite pitcher in his early years with Oakland then signs a monster free agent deal then...

Hope he doesn't have a case of the Steve Blass syndrome. It happened to Dontrelle Willis so you never know.

digicat · May 25, 2012 3:48PM

Zito, Willis, Blass, and even Saberhagen don't really compare here.

Timmy's in a class by himself. He had 4 consecutive elite seasons, then suddenly turned into a different guy.

WTCG · May 25, 2012 4:57PM

The elite ace pitcher Tim was in the past is all that, in the past. He was great before but this is now and right now he's a train wreck. In tonight's game after he gives up a near grand slam you knew something bad was going to happen and it did. The opposing teams know that and they pounce.

The coaches have to do something proactive to get him back to form. They've tried to let himself work it out but obviously that hasn't worked.

In the past years fans have looked forward to the days he pitched. Now when he takes the hill fans have one eye closed waiting for the moment he derails and crashes like a tanker truck down a cliff.

WTCG · May 25, 2012 5:11PM

On the subject of Miami, what's the deal with that Giancarlo Stanton guy? Is it just against the Giants that he looks like the best hitter in baseball? Seems like half his home runs are off the Giants and he hits a tape measure shot in every game he plays them.

As (approximately) quoted from a buddy of mine: "You'd think the Giants pitchers would discuss strategy on how to pitch to the guy. Whole thing reminds me of the YouTube clip with that goat that licks an electric fence and gets zapped every time but the goat keeps doing it. It's like the Giants pitchers are the goat and Stanton is the electric fence". Kinda sums it up I think.

digicat · May 26, 2012 2:52AM

<< The elite ace pitcher Tim was in the past is all that, in the past. He was great before but this is now and right now he's a train wreck. >>

It sounds like you're pretty much done with Lincecum.

If you were the Giants GM, how would you handle the situation? Demote him to the bullpen? Cut him from the team? Trade him for "____"?

2012 SF Giants discussion: NL West Champs

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