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2012 SF Giants discussion: NL West Champs

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    WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The elite ace pitcher Tim was in the past is all that, in the past. He was great before but this is now and right now he's a train wreck. >>



    It sounds like you're pretty much done with Lincecum.

    If you were the Giants GM, how would you handle the situation? Demote him to the bullpen? Cut him from the team? Trade him for "____"? >>



    Send him down to the minors for a "rehab" stint where his mechanics and attitude can be studied in detail without pressure. Some have suggested his troubles may be due to lack of mental focus. That could be fixed if he's willing to work on it.

    If he improves then great. If his performance worsens then I would place him on waivers and see what kind of offers other teams are willing to put on the table. This year's woes notwithstanding I don't think he really wants to re-sign with the Giants unless they grossly overpay. I thought the same thing with Matt Cain but he re-signed so that proves I really don't know what they're all thinking.
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    WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    I'll admit this is a strange year for traditionally elite pitchers. Other than Lincecum, Roy Halladay, Josh Johnson and a few others haven't been as dominant as they've been. Even C.C. Sabathia seems a bit off. He's got the ERA but Cliff Lee doesn't even have a win yet this year.

    As for the Marlins, what's the deal with Heath Bell? In the Giants series it looked like he couldn't close a bathroom door much less a ball game.
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    Lincecum and Heath Bell are the most shocking "penthouse to outhouse" pitchers this year.

    However, the Marlins are 17-4 in games where Bell pitches, believe it or not. Guillen seems to know when the pull the plug on him at just the right moment and put someone else out there.
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    So, I guess a fairly real question is, when Panda gets back, who goes?

    Based on how he's behaving, I'd almost think that it might be in the Giants interests to wave Aubrey Huff. He's played with body language in the past few days that make it seem like he's not really interested in playing.

    However, the management would have to deal with the fact that releasing a 2010 hero who's slumping and who's working through psychiatric problems will possibly have a negative effect on the fans. Will they lean more towards the "best for the team" side of things, or the "you cold blooded jerks!" side of things.


    Fans already hated Rowand and Tejada when they got released, so there was no public outcry after that move. Huff has equity with the fan-base due to his role in the 2010 season and his likable personality.


    If they want to go the easy route, they might demote Pill or find some way to DL Huff.

    Belt's getting playing time and he's showing signs of development, so I'd be sort of surprised if they demoted him again.
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    WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    The common sense decision would be to DFA Huff. I don't think the issue is with fan sentiment. I believe the fans have already had enough of his futility for the last 1 1/2 seasons and wouldn't mind seeing him go. If the team let him go late last year fans would've felt differently. Belt has been struggling but most think he will eventually develop. The only obstacle is whether ownership can stomach eating up Huff's salary for this year.

    Perhaps it's Burriss that gets the boot and Arias moves to 2B.

    I've always thought Pill could be viable trade bait for a team that needs infield depth. Maybe that's the plan.

    By the way I was shocked they won yesterday especially with Zito pitching. An otherwise mediocre team, Arizona has the tendency to turn into a team of supermen when they play the Giants.
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    Timmy's still not himself, but his statline looks better: 7 ip, 4 hits, 2 runs (1 earned), 6 so, but those 5 walks are evidence that all is not right.

    image Goldschmidt!
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    ddfamfddfamf Posts: 507 ✭✭
    That Melky trade has been awesome for us in KCimage
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    My wife surprised me this morning with tickets to today's game. image We manage 1 game a year together, but didn't make it out to one last year (we did Fan Fest instead).

    The last 3 games we've seen happened to be Matt Cain games, and he's 3-0 in those 3 games. image
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    2012 SF Giants discussion: 6/3 - Sandoval in big trouble?

    Panda the rapist?

    So, Sandoval's in trouble for getting it on with a drunk chick who claims she was too drunk to give consent. There have been rumors of Pablo's uncontrollable libido for a few years now, but this goes from "boys will be boys" to something much darker.
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    57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭
    Panda has issues, had issues, may continue to have issues.

    Not looking good for him.
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    Boch had a meeting with Sandoval to tell him that the team is not pleased with his current physical condition and his off-the-field distractions.

    Boch also told Sandoval in no uncertain terms that he'll need to play "Joaquin Arias" style defense at 3rd if he wants to start, and that they don't need another 1st baseman.

    All this DL time seems to get Sandoval's attention moving towards other stuff, like food, fun, and females. He needs to harness some of that enthusiasm and direct it towards being the best baseball player he can be, even while he's not on the field.
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    WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    The offense sucked during the Cubs series but wins are wins. This is a good time to make up some ground on the Dodgers, particularly with Kemp out.

    The rest of the pitching rotation (including Zito) was superb during the sweep. Let's see if Lincecum can maintain that standard.
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    WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Let's see if Lincecum can maintain that standard. >>



    After watching the second inning tonight it's established that that's wishful thinking.

    Then in all the subsequent innings he looks great. It's that one bad inning again.
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭


    << <i>Then in all the subsequent innings he looks great. It's that one bad inning again. >>



    It's always that 1 inning. That keeps making me wonder if it's something mental as opposed to physical (injury, diminished stuff).

    Still, as Yogi Berra once said: "Baseball is 90% mental, the other half is physical."


    They can't put Steve Edlefsen on a plane to Fresno fast enough for me. Get that guy out of there!

    But, who's going to take his place?

    Brad Penny's being readied to come up as a reliever, but he's still a ways away.

    On the 40 man right now, we've got:
    Danny Otero RHP: getting lit up in AAA.
    Hector Correa RHP: getting lit up in A+.
    Eric Hacker RHP: emergency starter having a fine AAA season.

    George Kontos RHP: 22 games, 30.2 ip of relief. 1.76 era, 1.011 whip. 3.57 so/bb ratio.

    Kontos came over from the Yankees in the Chris Stewart trade before the season started.

    I think we'll be seeing him soon.


    I was curious to see where Heath Hembree was with his development. He's struggling. He's given up 13 runs in his past 9.1 ip (9 hits, 7 walks). He's going to find himself on a plane to AA Richmond at this rate.
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    2012 SF Giants discussion: 6/5 - Lincecum's consistent 1 inning Yips

    June 5 = 4 run 2nd, 6-5 loss (6 ip)
    May 30 = x
    May 25 = 5 run 6th, 7-6 loss (5.2 ip)
    May 20 = 4 run 4th, 6-2 loss (4 ip)
    May 15 = x
    May 9 = 4 run 4th, 6-2 loss (5 ip)
    May 4 = 3 run 1st, 6-4 loss (5 ip)
    April 28 = x
    April 23 = x
    April 16 = 4 run 1st, 5-2 loss (6 ip)
    April 11 = 6 earned in 2.1 ip, 17-8 loss (2.1 ip)
    April 6 = 3 run 1st, 5-4 loss (5.1 ip)

    The "x" signify games where there was no 1 inning of note. In 7 out of 12 starts, he's been sunk by the 1 "big inning". In the other innings, he'll pitch in and out of jams, or just plain dominate.
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    CubbyCubby Posts: 2,096
    Timmy is on one of my fantasy teams. I am concerned about his BB rate. At least last nite he only walked one, and had 1.0 WHIP.


    BTW: Cubby=Cub Fan
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    bkingbking Posts: 3,095 ✭✭


    << <i>Boch had a meeting with Sandoval to tell him that the team is not pleased with his current physical condition and his off-the-field distractions.

    Boch also told Sandoval in no uncertain terms that he'll need to play "Joaquin Arias" style defense at 3rd if he wants to start, and that they don't need another 1st baseman.

    All this DL time seems to get Sandoval's attention moving towards other stuff, like food, fun, and females. He needs to harness some of that enthusiasm and direct it towards being the best baseball player he can be, even while he's not on the field. >>



    Holy crap!! Spider Arias is playing 3B for you guys?? Texas let him go, not even letting him keep the UIF job, because he could barely make the throws from 2B.
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭


    << <i>Holy crap!! Spider Arias is playing 3B for you guys?? Texas let him go, not even letting him keep the UIF job, because he could barely make the throws from 2B. >>



    I read that he had some nagging injuries back with the Rangers, but he's all better now. He's making amazing laser-guided throws across the diamond on a routine basis now. He can barely hit, but his defense has been unbelievably good!

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    bkingbking Posts: 3,095 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Holy crap!! Spider Arias is playing 3B for you guys?? Texas let him go, not even letting him keep the UIF job, because he could barely make the throws from 2B. >>



    I read that he had some nagging injuries back with the Rangers, but he's all better now. He's making amazing laser-guided throws across the diamond on a routine basis now. He can barely hit, but his defense has been unbelievably good! >>



    He had a major shoulder injury with Texas, so I guess he may finally be back to full health. At the end of the day though, he's just another over-hyped NYY farm hand that didn't pan out.
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭


    << <i>He had a major shoulder injury with Texas, so I guess he may finally be back to full health. At the end of the day though, he's just another over-hyped NYY farm hand that didn't pan out. >>



    What did the Rangers scouts see in him that made them pass on Robinson Cano as the 2nd piece in the Soriano & "X" for A-Rod trade?
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    bkingbking Posts: 3,095 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>He had a major shoulder injury with Texas, so I guess he may finally be back to full health. At the end of the day though, he's just another over-hyped NYY farm hand that didn't pan out. >>



    What did the Rangers scouts see in him that made them pass on Robinson Cano as the 2nd piece in the Soriano & "X" for A-Rod trade? >>



    Runor has it the Yankees either "hid" Cano or made a jersey switch, but I think the reality is that they just viewed Arias as more valuable due to him playing SS. Of course, hurting his shoulder pretty well killed that. Big mistake.
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    CollectorAtWorkCollectorAtWork Posts: 859 ✭✭✭


    << <i>... At the end of the day though, he's just another over-hyped NYY farm hand that didn't pan out. >>



    I think the Giants are ecstatic with Melky Cabrera, another over-hyped NYY farm hand that the Yanks thought wouldn't pan out. He's practically saved the Giants offense although no question Blanco and Pagan have played important roles also.
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    WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    Granted I don't watch the Padres often but in this last series they looked a lot better than a 19-39 team.

    Now with Blanco playing well and Theriot on fire, Posey solid, Melky and Pagan staying hot, the Giants finally have a lineup that strikes a little fear into opposing pitchers. When Panda comes back, who becomes the odd man out? Burriss? Arias, Huff or somebody else?
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭


    << <i>Now with Blanco playing well and Theriot on fire, Posey solid, Melky and Pagan staying hot, the Giants finally have a lineup that strikes a little fear into opposing pitchers. When Panda comes back, who becomes the odd man out? Burriss? Arias, Huff or somebody else? >>



    Boch says that Theriot is the starting 2nd baseman until he proves otherwise.

    When Panda gets back, I think they'll go one of 2 directions:

    a) Option Pill or Belt
    b) Wave Huff

    With Huff, Pill, and Belt, you have too many first baseman, especially since Posey plays there sometimes and Panda may not be a 3rd baseman in his present physical condition.

    The right move would be to say so-long to Huff, but I just don't see them doing that. I see poor Brandon Belt getting booted back to Fresno, and that sucks. However, it might suck less than being stuck in a 3 man platoon where he's sitting on the bench most of the time.
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    However, I do find it weird and unusual that given the frequent use of the bullpen and the recent fact of Casilla and Romo being hurt, Shane Loux hasn't seen action since May 25th, almost 2 weeks ago. Steve Edlefsen has seen action in 3 games during that time, and two of those 3 were disasterous (turning a 1 run deficit into a 3 run deficit in one, and surrendering a walk-off HR in the most recent).
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    Well, the Rangers are in town, and Posey and Melky are both sitting tonight.

    Regardless of what happens in this series... this still happened:

    image
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    WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    Double post
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    WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Well, the Rangers are in town, and Posey and Melky are both sitting tonight. >>



    Melky was pulled before the game was done yesterday and now he's sitting out tonight. Any word on what may be up with him? >>



    CSNBA just said he has a sore hamstring and could sit out tomorrow also.
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    WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    If I went to tonight's game like I was originally planning to I would want my money back. Tonight's team performance was absolutely horrible.

    In other news Brett Pill was optioned to make room for Panda.

    If it's any consolation the Dodgers got no-no'd in Seattle.
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    2012 SF Giants discussion: 6/9 - Panda back, Pill sent down

    After getting skunked 5-0 at home with Posey and Melky sitting, the Giants decided to send down the struggling Brett Pill and re-activate Sandoval, who jacked 2 homers for Fresno Friday night.

    Sandoval was horrid in 2010 when he was dealing with weight problems and a messy divorce. I wonder how bad he'll suck now that he's dealing with weight problems AND rape allegations.

    Boch says he's starting at 3rd on Saturday, so that means Arias will become a utility infielder.

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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    In other news, the Giants finally sent Steve Edlifson back to Fresno and called up George Knotos, another righty reliever who's been doing pretty well in Fresno.

    When Boch put him in in the 9th during a 0-4 blowout loss, I figured that it was a white flag move, and even though Edlifson struggled, Boch was clearly of the mind "Game's over kid, here's a mop. You're done after you get 3 outs, or you get hurt."

    AAA reliever numbers mean squat in the majors, but it COULD mean that Kontos is coming up with some confidence.


    Melky's out for the series. Hopefully this doesn't turn into a DL thing. I've been a big Schierholtz fan, but man, when he slumps, he slumps. He's been getting owned by lefties this year, but he's hitting close to .300 vs righties.


    TX's Feldman is a walking disaster. After rejoining the rotation this year, in 5 games, he's 0-4 with an 8.20 era. He hasn't gotten out of the 5th inning yet this year.


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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    2012 SF Giants discussion: 6/11 - It takes 9 guys.

    Well, after getting shut out twice in SF this weekend in a Melk-less lineup, it's clear that it takes every single piece of this Giants puzzle to be working in full throttle for the team to function.

    As we saw this weekend, Schierholtz can't hold down Melky's spot in the lineup, and Panda's got work to do. There were a couple of key plays in yesteday's game that Arais would have made that Panda could not, and that made a difference. Maybe it'd only mean that the Giants got shutout 2-0 or something, but still.


    I wonder if they should experement with putting Panda deeper in the lineup for now until he gets used to MLB pitching again.

    Maybe:
    Blanco - Theriot - Melky - Posey - Angel - Panda - Belt - Crawford - pitcher?

    That line up keeps the core intact, and puts some thump in the 6th spot before Belt. If that means that teams pitch around Panda to get to Belt, then Belt will get stuff to hit.
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    WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    Last month when we thought Timmy couldn't get any worse, he's gotten worse in June. It's like he's channeled the spirit of Jonathan Sanchez. That last outing wasn't a 1-inning bump, save for a few bright specks it was a horrible performance.

    There is supposedly a rumor they're interested in Kevin Youkilis. The Dodgers are interested in Youkilis as well. Is this a team tactic to keep him away from L.A. or are the Giants legitimately interested in filling 1B with a proven veteran?
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭


    << <i>There is supposedly a rumor they're interested in Kevin Youkilis. The Dodgers are interested in Youkilis as well. Is this a team tactic to keep him away from L.A. or are the Giants legitimately interested in filling 1B with a proven veteran? >>



    The rumor's been around for a month, but the Giants have not shown the level of interest you'd expect from a very interested party.


    Hmm, Vlad Guerrero just got released by the Jays. I wonder if he can play 1st base?
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    Looks like Buster's shot ahead and is leading in the NL AS game voting for catchers. Melky's 4th on the OF, Panda's 2nd on 3b, and Belt (!?!?) is 4th for 1st baseman.
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    WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Looks like Buster's shot ahead and is leading in the NL AS game voting for catchers. Melky's 4th on the OF, Panda's 2nd on 3b, and Belt (!?!?) is 4th for 1st baseman. >>



    Just saw that for Belt. Maybe Bay Area fans are doing their part to stuff the ballot. Thought Pagan would be higher up.
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    Molina and Ruiz are both having fantastic seasons, but Buster's the clean-cut, all-American boy who's overcome adversity. I think he's getting "new shiny toy" points from around the country.


    I don't know who comes up with those ballots though. Freddy Sanchez is the only option for SF 2nd basemen, and Huff's listed as an Outfielder.
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    WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Molina and Ruiz are both having fantastic seasons, but Buster's the clean-cut, all-American boy who's overcome adversity. I think he's getting "new shiny toy" points from around the country.


    I don't know who comes up with those ballots though. Freddy Sanchez is the only option for SF 2nd basemen, and Huff's listed as an Outfielder. >>



    True about Posey although with the East Coast bias factored in it evens out any sympathy advantage Posey might have because guys like Ruiz in particular get more coverage.

    Whomever gets listed as the Giants 2B won't make the all-star team.
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    Belt delivered today. I wonder if Pill getting sent down helped his confidence? I mean, no more rightly/lefty platoon. Huff's attracting flies, so Belt's the guy (unless they make a trade).


    I love Bum's stat line tonight:
    on the mound: W, 7.2, 1 earned, 12 so, 0 walks.
    at the plate: 1-3, 1 HR.

    I'll take this opportunity to show off my Bumgarner rookie card. image

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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    Sales of the bulk of my collection are going so well, that I can make a few additions to my SF Giants collection here and there, like this bad boy:

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    WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    Mr. Perfect!

    Tonight was one of the rare nights I got home in time to watch every single pitch from the first pitch and I'm glad I did tonight.

    By the way, did anybody else catch that guy with the jetpack/ aquapack hovering over McCovey Cove in the early innings? That thing was neat.
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    When Arias double-clutched the ball, I had a flash back to Juan Uribe dropping the grounder for an error during what turned out to be Jonathan Sanchez's no-hitter.

    But, with that arm of his, he made the throw. Dude's got a video game railgun for an arm.

    Pretty cool that on the day I got my Gold Refractor Cain rookie, he goes and does this. image
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    Awesome game.

    Had Arias bobbled that ball, he should have airmailed it into the stands behind first base to ensure an error and at least preserve the no hitter. Always gotta be thinking out there.
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    57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭
    to me it was more exciting than winning the WS, although i'd take a WS over a perfect game, any day..but after seeing his wife, i dunno

    BTW posting here instead posting on the other thread which is sacrilege (nothing against the OP, though) and also it's being...


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    perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,789 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ofcourse he had that perfect game while I am going against the guy who has him in our fantasy league...65 points YOWZER! image

    Congrats to SF fans!
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    2012 SF Giants discussion: 6/14 - Belt's confidence seems to have been called up from the minors.

    After hitting 0 homers, he's hit 3 bombs in the past 3 games. The first bounced into the water. The second was hit to dead center. The third was a splash hit.

    Huff apparently messed up his knee jumping over the dugout rail while celebrating Cain's perfecto, so I think we may be seeing Pill back up soon. I just hope Boch doesn't keep doing the platoon crap.
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    Brett Pill is still in Fresno, but Justin Christian is not, so it's a good chance that he's on his way to join the team in Seattle.

    Not a bad move. Christian's the best bat (not on the DL) in Fresno, he's fast, and he's a competent centerfielder.

    With the team coming together with the first consistent lineup in a long time, Christian provides a righty bat off the bench with some power and OBP potential. I wonder if they're thinking about DHing him in the Seattle series?

    No corresponding 40 man move is necessary, since they are only at 39 w/o Christian. Besides, even if they did need to make a move, they could easly 60-day Freddy Sanchez since it seems like he's never coming back.


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    WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    In Seattle I'm thinking Bochy will DH Posey or Panda at least one game each.

    I don't think Freddy Sanchy is coming back this year if ever. With Theriot playing the way he is right now the roster doesn't miss him as much as last year.
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭


    << <i>In Seattle I'm thinking Bochy will DH Posey or Panda at least one game each. >>



    Not tonight. They've put Christian in as DH.
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    digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    2012 SF Giants discussion: 6/15 - 3 out of 5 Giants starters look like All Stars.

    Cain, Bumgarner, and Vogelsong all look like legit All Stars so far this season.

    Cain: 8-2, 2.18 era, 0.85 whip (MLB lead), perfect game.
    Vogelsong: 6-2, 2.29 era, 1.16 whip
    Bumgarner: 8-4, 3.08 era, 1.12 whip


    However, I just don't see Tony LaRussa picking 3 Giants pitchers.
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