2012 SF Giants discussion: NL West Champs

digicat

40 man roster (via my rookie card collection)

The Rotation: Bumgarner, Lincecum, Cain (All Star), Zito, Vogelsong


The Infield: Posey (All Star C), Belt (1b), Scutaro (2b), Crawford (SS), Sandoval (All Star, 3b)


The Outfield: Blanco (LF), Pagan (CF), Pence (RF)


The Bullpen: Affeldt (L), Casilla (R), Kontos (R), Hesnley (R), Lopez (L), Loux (R), Machi (R),
Mijares (L), Mota (R), Otero (R), Penny (R), Petit (R), Romo (R), Runzler (L)




The Bench: Theriot (2b), Arias (IF), Sanchez (C), Peguero (OF), Whiteside (C), Pill (1b)
Huff (1b), Burriss (IF), Nady (OF), Christian (OF)




The 60 Day DL: Wilson (RHP), Surkamp (LHP), Sanchez (2b)


Minor Leagues: Adrianza (IF), Gillaspie (3b), Kieschnick (OF)


Restricted List: Villalona (1b, visa problems), Cabrera (All Star MVP, LF, 50 game PED suspension)

digicat

Glad to see the Giants lock Cain up for the next 6 years, but sort of sad to see a good defensive catcher like Chris Stewart get dumped. George Kontos looks like he might be a useful righty out of the pen, but we've got lots of those...

I'm pleasantly surprised to see them scrap the 8th place hitter backup-catchers (Stewart, Whiteside) and go with the young stud Hector Sanchez, who had a pretty hot bat during the winter and Spring Training. Hector's still young and raw in his catching ability, but he's a threat with the bat, and that could make the difference when they want to move Posey to 1st once and a while.

Gregor Blanco is probably going to be starting before the season is over.

I have a feeling that Zito's suckage is reaching critical mass, and the Giants may decide before the season is over that Zito's more valuable to the Giants when he's not one. Surkamp's going to get his break this year.

Brandon Belt is going to rake. Just wait.

The offense actually looks like they can do some damage this year, with a string of dangerous hitters from the 1st through the 6th spot.


Too bad Timmy wasn't himself today. Oh well. It's still early.

WTCG

I'm in Macau right now so I didn't see the game. I know the season just started but when your best pitcher gets rocked by a team that owned them the last half of last year you tend to feel that indigestion in your stomach right about now.

WTCG

Game two in the books and they're still getting owned by the D-Backs.

digicat

The irony: Giants have bats now, and they're thumping, but the starting pitching has been getting thumped harder.

Cain needs to stop the bleeding tomorrow.

digicat

Bleeding not stopped. This is weird. The Giants bats are lighting up the scoreboard, but the "elite" pitching is getting rocked hard. WTF?

WTCG

Swept by the D-Backs like a compact car in an Arizona flash flood. Never mind contending for first place, they can't stay out of the division basement.

Here's the new nickname for the starting rotation:
Stoner Barry Zito
Tall Barry Zito
Mega Millions Barry Zito
***TBA Barry Zito
Barry Zito

I kinda wanted to see Barry Zito pitch against Arizona: 3 innings, 11 earned runs would be a quality start for him.

Considering how things are going I don't think they will win one against Colorado.

digicat

The CO series is gonna be a slugfest on both sides. CO has no pitching, and SF's pitching hasn't shown up yet.

larryallen73

Off to a nice start this season.

digicat

<< <i>Off to a nice start this season. >>



They'll figure it out... I hope.

larryallen73

<< <i>

<< <i>Off to a nice start this season. >>



They'll figure it out... I hope. >>



I am sure they will. The first 3 or 4 games don't mean much. However, it would sure be fun if they went 0-162.

57loaded

it's a long season. hopefully they coughed up their hairball.

Chase plays differently now than when it heats up, or so i've been told.

regardless, a disappointing start.

Rowand: He was DFA'd last year---recently dropped my the Miami 'Rainbows'...he is still guaranteed his remaining contract year (this year) regardless of where he plays?

Zito less than two seasons and counting........................

WTCG

"The season is long" is the wrong way to justify poor play. Good news is the baseball season is long enough that mistakes can be corrected in time. In football an injury to one player or a losing streak can torpedo a season.

Remember when Aubrey Huff started off slow last year? Everybody kept saying "it's a long season, he'll snap out of it". It's already next season and he hasn't yet.

SanctionII

For those Giant fans who are nervous nellies, if the Giants continue to struggle, when (as in how many games into the season) do you start getting really worried that the season is lost?

Half way through April?, or May?; or June? or July? or August; or September?

I vote half way through July.

WTCG

<< <i>For those Giant fans who are nervous nellies, if the Giants continue to struggle, when (as in how many games into the season) do you start getting really worried that the season is lost?

Half way through April?, or May?; or June? or July? or August; or September?

I vote half way through July. >>



Personally it's around early June but for most it's around the All-Star break or the trade deadline.

Of course it's all unpredictable. If you recall during the 2010 championship year the Giants were in third place and apparently out of post season play at the All-Star break. They played a lot better in the second half despite the August slump but what happened afterwards wouldn't have happened if the Padres didn't have their meltdown.

57loaded

<< <i>For those Giant fans who are nervous nellies, if the Giants continue to struggle, when (as in how many games into the season) do you start getting really worried that the season is lost?

Half way through April?, or May?; or June? or July? or August; or September?

I vote half way through July. >>




in 2010 before Posey....
in 2011 after Posey.....

2012 if Zito becomes a #3 starter

digicat

Oh, I see, we're in Bizarro World now. Lincecum, Cain, and Bumgarner all get shelled, but Barry Zito shuts out the Rockies in Coors Field.

WTCG

<< <i>Oh, I see, we're in Bizarro World now. Lincecum, Cain, and Bumgarner all get shelled, but Barry Zito shuts out the Rockies in Coors Field.

>>




You're right...Zito throws a complete game 4-hit shutout at Coors of all places. Are we in an alternate universe or something?

digicat

It's the complete-game shutout of 2012 as well!

arex

fwiw, Bumgarner went to South Caldwell which is a huge in-county rival to the school I coach football and wrestling at.

digicat

Not only does he throw shutouts, he also wears down opposing pitchers.

Zito's 11 pitch AB: base hit.

SanctionII

Only 158 games left in the regular season. Plenty of time for highs, lows, drama, snooze fests, hot streaks, cold spells, etc., etc.

My prediction on 4-10-2012 is that at the end of the season the Giants will have a record of 97 wins and 75 losses. They will make it to the postseason.

Anyone else want to offer up a prediction?

arex

<< <i>Only 158 games left in the regular season. Plenty of time for highs, lows, drama, snooze fests, hot streaks, cold spells, etc., etc.

My prediction on 4-10-2012 is that at the end of the season the Giants will have a record of 97 wins and 75 losses. They will make it to the postseason.

Anyone else want to offer up a prediction? >>


I just dont see the Giants having enough offense to win that many games. The arms are good, no doubt, but they need to be able to hit consistently, which I am not sure that they can.
I think they are a 90 win team, give or take 2 wins.

digicat

Buster's been scratched from tonight's game due to a bad case of shingles.

Better than a bad case of "broken leg."

Hopefully Hector can handle Timmy.

WTCG

Shingles? I've had those and it's no fun. Sorta like chicken pox for adults.

Are the Giants going to a 4-man rotation until Vogie comes back, or are there immediate plans for a fifth starter?

digicat

Vogelsong's scheduled to pitch in SF on Sunday vs the Pirates.

Otero will probably get sent down to make room for him.

SanctionII

A little off topic (the Giants on the field), but I thought I would toss it out here anyway.

I was listening to KNBR today and the host of the show was interviewing a Giants' big wig (LB I think). The topic of discussion was non baseball activities of the Giants. Since the club owns ATT Park (and given the sell out crowds will probably own it free and clear of a mortgage in the not to distant future) and since the club wants to be one of the more valuable franchises in MLB, able to compete with the likes of the Yankees, etc., the Giants are looking into property ownership and development around ATT Park. It was mentioned that the team has been working (silently, behind the scenes) with the City and the SF Port Authority for 4 years now on development plans for the waterfront area around the stadium. I have no doubt that the Giants' ownership and management will posture the club to where it increases its asset base, its yearly income, its ties to the city of SF and thus the overall value of the franchise in the years to come.

The best thing that the Giants have done over the past 20 years is get ATT Park built and move to that stadium from the Stick.

The Warriors will be looking to relocate to a new arena in the future. The A's long for the day when they can move to the South Bay into a new stadium down there. The Raiders (now that Al Davis has passed) will likely not be willing to remain long term tenants in Oakland.

Oakland and Alameda County can not get any love from their pro sports franchises. East Bay fans are going to have to resign themselves to watching games on TV or driving out of the East Bay to attend games.

digicat

Wow, Lincecum doesn't even make it out of the 3rd.

Final line for Timmy: 2.1 ip, 8 hits (4 xbh), 2 walks, 6 runs

WTF?

digicat

<< <i>Wow, Lincecum doesn't even make it out of the 3rd. Final line for Timmy: 2.1 ip, 8 hits (4 xbh), 2 walks, 6 runs WTF? >>



Timmy: "Sorry guys, I sucked today.. "
Giants offense: "Don't worry about it Tim. We'll just score 7 runs in the next inning to get you off the hook."

WTCG

Seems like Timmy and Zito switched bodies. 6ER in 2.1IP is more traditionally a Zito type outing.

Good news for the Giants is it looks like they can score runs for a change. For the pitchers last year it was either throw a shutout or earn a loss. Tonight they've come back from 6 runs down. Last year it would've taken them at least 35 innings to score 6 runs.

digicat

The humidor broke.

digicat

Giants pitching broke.

WTCG

<< <i>A little off topic (the Giants on the field), but I thought I would toss it out here anyway.

I was listening to KNBR today and the host of the show was interviewing a Giants' big wig (LB I think). The topic of discussion was non baseball activities of the Giants. Since the club owns ATT Park (and given the sell out crowds will probably own it free and clear of a mortgage in the not to distant future) and since the club wants to be one of the more valuable franchises in MLB, able to compete with the likes of the Yankees, etc., the Giants are looking into property ownership and development around ATT Park. It was mentioned that the team has been working (silently, behind the scenes) with the City and the SF Port Authority for 4 years now on development plans for the waterfront area around the stadium. I have no doubt that the Giants' ownership and management will posture the club to where it increases its asset base, its yearly income, its ties to the city of SF and thus the overall value of the franchise in the years to come.

The best thing that the Giants have done over the past 20 years is get ATT Park built and move to that stadium from the Stick.

The Warriors will be looking to relocate to a new arena in the future. The A's long for the day when they can move to the South Bay into a new stadium down there. The Raiders (now that Al Davis has passed) will likely not be willing to remain long term tenants in Oakland.

Oakland and Alameda County can not get any love from their pro sports franchises. East Bay fans are going to have to resign themselves to watching games on TV or driving out of the East Bay to attend games. >>



That's the problem with the ownership: they're preoccupied with all that other stuff and more concerned about the bottom line than the core of the entire operation, the team's ability to win championships and attract talent to the roster. All that other stuff won't matter much if the team does not win. Except for the Chicago Cubs operation, winning is by far the best method for attracting fans and increasing revenue. A shopping promenade, kiddie playground and all that fringe stuff will not matter if the team does not win. Owners need to understand that very simple point.

MLB brass would be morons to not approve the A's move to San Jose. San Jose wants the team and getting any new facility built in Oakland is impossible. The A's want out of Oakland and apparently their fans don't care enough to attend their games. If the move to San Jose is denied I see the A's moving to Portland. The East Coast was recently mentioned as well.

I believe the Warriors lease at the Oracle Arena expires in 2017 so they'll be in Oakland for the time being. As long as the Raiders don't move out of the area entirely I sense a strong possibility they'll be playing future home games in Santa Clara. Considering the way the city of Oakland and Alameda County neglects their pro sports organizations I don't blame them for seeking out greener pastures.

SanctionII

Alameda County and the City of Oakland have demonstrated time and again that they do not value their pro sports franchises very much. I think it is inevitable that the A's, Raiders and probably the Warriors will leave Alameda County.

WTCG

One good game and four sucky ones. This is going to be a long 67-95 season with plenty of fighting for third place.

digicat

At least we can stop talking about the Giants missing offense.

WTCG

Now we can talk about how the #1 and #3 guys are making #5 guy money while they get lit up like Times Square. #5 guy had one good game but that doesn't erase the last five crappy seasons.

digicat

MadBum got it together, carrying a no-no into the 6th.

It's obvious that Wilson pitched hurt in the 9th, and I suspect that we'll be looking for a new closer very shortly, unless they go closer-by-committee.

We'll probably see Wilson hit the DL to make room for Vogelsong, so Danny Otero gets a few more weeks in SF. Unless they do something weird, like call someone up to be available out of the pen for this weekend's series, then DL someone else to make room for Vogelsong.

WTCG

Good news is out of the big three starters it's one solved, two to go. Bullpen looked horrible yesterday but better today.

Is that Hembree guy ready to be a closer now or do they think he isn't ready for the majors?

digicat

<< <i>Good news is out of the big three starters it's one solved, two to go. Bullpen looked horrible yesterday but better today. >>



Cain will deal tomorrow in SF. I'm only worried about Timmy, but I still think he'll figure it out.

Now it seems that Wilson is claiming to be fine. Apparently he jammed his ankle and it messed up up a bit during the 9th today, but he's telling everyone he's fine now. ??? I really hope Wilson isn't pulling a Nen.

digicat

I told you that Matt Cain would deal.

SHUTOUT, 1 hit, 0 walks, 11 strikeouts. It's ironic that the opposing pitcher was the only Pirate to get a hit.

WTCG

<< <i>Cain will deal tomorrow in SF. I'm only worried about Timmy, but I still think he'll figure it out. >>



You called it. An eyelash from a no-no.

digicat

Wilson out with structural damage in his trowing elbow. Facing Tommy John surgery.

He's been having elbow issues since the 2010 season. I guess Wilson's elbow was the price to pay for 2010.


It'll be the 2nd time he's had it. The first was back in college in 2003, which is one of the reasons why he fell to the 24th round in the draft in 2003.

Well, his contract is only through the end of this year, but he has 1 year of arbitration left. I wonder if the Giants will non-tender him at the end of the season, or offer him arb?


Well, either way, Brian Wilson has earned a plaque on the SF Giants Wall of Fame outside AT&T Park.

7 years, 3.21 era, 171 saves, 3 All-Star apperances.
He ranks 3rd all-time on the Giants "Saves" leaderboard (behind Nen and Beck)


Giants have a pretty solid (and expensive) bullpen, so if they go Closer-By-Committee, or whatever, I think it'll be fine.

digicat

It's early, but while I'm happy Zito isn't sucking yet, I'm not optimistic that he'll keep it up.

In just about every year with the Giants, he's had a small cluster of games in a row where he pitched well, but he inevitably returned to being a wreck.

digicat

Wow, the Giants decided not to goof around with MadBum. They locked him up through 2019! (5 year extension plus 2 club options) That buys up all of his Arb years plus his 1st year of FA, and the two club options eat two of his FA years. WOW.

The 5 year part is worth $35 mil, but I haven't seen anything about the options yet.

The Giants did a deal similar to this with Matt Cain when he was 22, except that it was a 4 year/1 option. 3 years in, they extended his contract for another 3 years.

Awesome deal for the Giants. I think it'll pay off huge.


Giants did a similar deal with Matt Cain when he was young, as well as with Noah Lowry.

WTCG

The Brian Wilson injury and necessary surgery doesn't surprise me. I guess it feels better to know he's been off because of an injury as opposed to being perfectly healthy and sucking.

This is the first I've heard about the MadBum deal. Smart move and of the starting rotation he has the best future upside. However, is it smarter to buy out a player's control/ arbitration years all at once or should teams sign them to multiple short term contracts instead? Is arbitration a viable option?

digicat

<< <i>This is the first I've heard about the MadBum deal. Smart move and of the starting rotation he has the best future upside. However, is it smarter to buy out a player's control/ arbitration years all at once or should teams sign them to multiple short term contracts instead? Is arbitration a viable option? >>



The problem with multiple short contracts, or going to Arb, is that if a player is good (e.g. Lincecum), then the price goes up fast as the skills increase. The Giants are gambling that Bumgarner will keep getting better and better. If he does, then this is one heck of a bargan for the Giants, as they'll be underpaying for MadBum's arm.

If he blows out his arm like Noah Lowry or sucks like Zito, then it's not a good deal, but not a franchise crippling deal.

WTCG

Lincecum getting lit up like a Christmas tree again.

Okay he's calmed down a bit since the 1st inning but with Halladay pitching runs are hard to come by. Seems like every time Halladay gets into a jam he finds a way to work out of them with minimum damage.

digicat

Tim's at a point in his career where his velocity is not there for him. Great pitchers make adjustments. Halladay hardly topped 90 tonight, but he can mix and match a selection of pitches to keep hitters off balance.

After getting shelled, he started mixing in his slider, and ended up retiring the last 2 batters in the 1st, and the next 8 in a row after that.

Timmy's got the tools, he just needs to start using them. He's not going to blow 97 mph fastballs past people anymore.

I think something clicked tonight. After 6 batters and 4 runs in the 1st, he made his adjustment and matched Halladay. Ultimately, we'll see with Sunday's start in NY.

I'm worried about Melky though. If you saw the replays, he jammed his hand into the catcher's foot on his slide home in Friday's game in the first. When he got up, he was shaking his hand a bit.

He got another hit that day, but since that game: 0-12.

digicat

The Matt Cain vs Cliff Lee pitching duel tonight was was probably the most intense pitching duel I've ever seen!

Matt Cain: 9 ip, 0 runs, 2 hits, 1 walk, 4 strikeous, 91 pitches.
Cliff Lee: 10 ip, 0 runs, 7 hits, 0 walks, 7 strikeouts, 102 pitches.

Neither guy got the decision. Wow.

57loaded

Gone are the days of a 25yr old vs a 42yr old going almost through the 16th pitching shutouts.