1882-CC $20 Liberty.......real or counterfeit.
DoubleEagle59
Posts: 8,345 ✭✭✭✭✭
The coin looks genuine to me.
Does xf45 seem reasonable?
Anyone think it's a fake?
Also, what's going on with the rim at 4:00...some damage or perhaps just a photography shadow effect.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
1
Comments
Looks fine to me.
Maybe more XF40 but at that level it’s splitting hairs and no reverse shot.
I don’t see anything on the rim at 4 which concerns me
Latin American Collection
It looks real me, but the grade is more than maxed out at EF-40. The wear and minor rim issues take it below the EF-45 level. An EF-45 should have decent eye appeal, and this one doesn't have it.
Man what a scarce date: should grade
I am taken that its the p mint
HA!!...I wish!
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Not trying to jack your post but funny you post this. I just bought this one late yesterday for my counterfeit book and looks pretty good for a counterfeit. Yours looks ok to me.
Hoard the keys.
Looking at the reverse, I would downgrade my estimate from 40 to 35 and hope that 'dent' by the Eagle's head does not give it a details grade. Cheers, RickO
You'd think mine should pass after seeing this one..........
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Liberty looks like she was in a knife fight.
Latin American Collection
Sorry, but those marks on the cheek and hair take that coin out of the EF-45 category.
I don't like it. Fake is my take. CC font is off and little casting bubbles where I circled.
bob
How difficult would have it been to just list this as a 1882-cc to start the thread... ?
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Don't see how that one got holdered. I would have thought the damage was too extreme.
I have not seen a CAST counterfeit $20 Liberty EVER and I've been looking at counterfeits for a very long time.
I'm AU on the OP's coin. Not even close to an XF as far as the amount of detail remaining. If you wish to price it as an XF that's fine.
I agree that this is genuine. When I first opened this thread and only viewed the obverse, I knew it was a CC.
No way this is fake.
Not very difficult.........my mistake.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
what about the edge gold metal overlap, lower right bottom?
AU...really?
Latin American Collection
I had shown my 1875 CC Twenty Gold on these boards several months ago and it was shot down by some as counterfeit but was graded AU55 by ATS. Get it graded, looks good to me at 40, 45 on a good day.
Well, just Love coins, period.
XF45 and appears authentic, congrats
45 is not unreasonable.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Absolutely! The obverse image in the OP is a "technical" AU all-day-long! There are coins with this amount of rub on the high points graded 61 or 62 all over the place. Now if you wish to net grade it down to 45 due to the planchet streaks fine. Ricko's coin has been downgraded from AU-50 to XF due to the cheek! The fact that both these coins are scarce also lowers their "technical grade." Remember, just my opinion but I'll be glad to discuss it.
I will say this as I lived through it. In the 1970's and 80's the OP's coin was an XF. Those days are long gone.
@BillJones is respected around here so I'll quote him: "It looks real me, but the grade is more than maxed out at EF-40. The wear and minor rim issues take it below the EF-45 level. An EF-45 should have decent eye appeal, and this one doesn't have it."
I disagree, IMHO, anyone (that's anyone and I welcome all the really big fish to chime in as all of us will benefit from the lesson on commercial grading they will give me
) who thinks this coin is even close to XF-40 is NUTS!!
First: "The wear and minor rim issues take it below the EF-45 level." Bill is NET grading. A CIRCULATED coin does not go down in grade with minor rim issues! Circulated coins go down in grade by LOSS OF DESIGN DETAIL DUE TO ABRASIVE WEAR ONLY. Anything else is net grading in order to place a VALUE on a coin. The brown planchet flaws lower the eye-appeal - NOT THE AMOUNT OF WEAR. Since the eye appeal is lowered the coin is not as desirable and not WORTH AS MUCH as the same coin without them. We'll all agree with that.
Unfortunately, the coin looks cleaned to death (continuous hairlines). Nevertheless, the hair braided high points are virtually completely intact with separated hair strands. You will not find that on an XF coin.
Ok insider, I'm with you as far as actual wear, but what about the deep scratches?
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Good eyes! I magnified the image and there is a major scratch under the neck and over the date. Scratches do not lower the grade, they lower the value. The dark brown streaks are planchet flaws. You can see the dark copper-black color especially inside the part that touches the "8." It looks like some fool dug into the streak. His tool may have slipped causing the scratch at the base of the meck.
Sorry, Insider, I have to disagree with that one. If the scratches didn't lower then grade then there would be a very large number of MS-67, 68 or whatever highest grade can be for Morgan Dollars. Marks determine the grades on most truly Mint State coins, if they are bod enough, they result in a "no grade."
I can not see how scratches would NOT affect grade, though agree with the value being affected naturally. All else being equal, a coin with a scratch I can not see achieving the same grade as one without. I have had 19th C. currency coins REJECTED for the most minimal of scratches (really solitary hairlines ) by both the host and ATS.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Good thing I am not grading or quite a few would come back in details holders. Or if I submitted them.
In the academic world that has no relationship to the "Real World" of money, Scratches and any defects including those made at the mint will ONLY affect the grade of a Mint State coin.
Defects such as rim nicks and scratches do not lower the AMOUNT OF WEAR or THE AMOUNT OF DESIGN DETAIL remaining on a circulated coin. That is called NET grading and it is practiced to put a value on a coin rather than indicate its actual condition of preservation. A corroded coin with the details of an AU-55 is not a VF unless it is net graded!
Once the idea of value came into grading it got complicated. Once the ANA combined the number of marks (choice or typical) on a circulated coin with its amount of wear... Put the two together and what do you "GOT" LOL, pure crap. We all need/learn to eat it too.
Yummy, enjoy!