I was speaking only to being down 2-0 at the presser
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Who knows...sometimes Lebron is hard to figure out. Maybe he was out of gas at the end or his neck was giving him problems. The guy is hard to read sometimes.
@DIMEMAN said:
Who knows...sometimes Lebron is hard to figure out. Maybe he was out of gas at the end or his neck was giving him problems. The guy is hard to read sometimes.
I'm betting that that neck injury gets played up if the Cavs lose this series especially if the series ends quicker than expected.
I think Lue got out coached badly and Cleveland quit. If they didn’t quit then Boston sucked the life out of the Cav’s.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@DIMEMAN said:
Who knows...sometimes Lebron is hard to figure out. Maybe he was out of gas at the end or his neck was giving him problems. The guy is hard to read sometimes.
I'm betting that that neck injury gets played up if the Cavs lose this series especially if the series ends quicker than expected.
That whole thing was a prima dona thing. He acts like he can hardly get up....then heads for the dressing room......then stops and wanders around in the tunnel......then comes back in and stands by the scorers table ready to go in. He may have just been trying to give Boston the idea he was hurt bad so they wouldn't worry so much about him on defense. Didn't work did it!
@DIMEMAN said:
Who knows...sometimes Lebron is hard to figure out. Maybe he was out of gas at the end or his neck was giving him problems. The guy is hard to read sometimes.
I'm betting that that neck injury gets played up if the Cavs lose this series especially if the series ends quicker than expected.
That whole thing was a prima dona thing. He acts like he can hardly get up....then heads for the dressing room......then stops and wanders around in the tunnel......then comes back in and stands by the scorers table ready to go in. He may have just been trying to give Boston the idea he was hurt bad so they wouldn't worry so much about him on defense. Didn't work did it!
@DIMEMAN said:
Who knows...sometimes Lebron is hard to figure out. Maybe he was out of gas at the end or his neck was giving him problems. The guy is hard to read sometimes.
I'm betting that that neck injury gets played up if the Cavs lose this series especially if the series ends quicker than expected.
That whole thing was a prima dona thing. He acts like he can hardly get up....then heads for the dressing room......then stops and wanders around in the tunnel......then comes back in and stands by the scorers table ready to go in. He may have just been trying to give Boston the idea he was hurt bad so they wouldn't worry so much about him on defense. Didn't work did it!
Another thing Paul P. was a MASTER at was getting the defender in the air and then jumping under him and up for a shot.....getting the foul called on the defender every time!!!!!!!! I HATE THAT CALL!!! It's not right! The defender has the right to come down when he jumps straight up! AAARRRGGGHHH!!!
so let me get this straight, you guys aren't satisfied with enjoying that the Celtics out-hustled and out-played the Cavs down the stretch, from about the middle of the third quarter, so now it's gloat time and run down the Coach and players time???
that's sort of low class even for this place. why not just dwell on how well Rozier played for a stretch that changed the game??? why not wax poetic about how Tatum seems to hit shots when they count?? why not discuss how this young Team doesn't seem to realize how good they can be??
Here comes the insecure Cavs fan taking shots at us for talking about the game last night. Some of us have actually tried talking about everything you mentioned but if anything positive is said about Brad Stevens,you whine. If anything negative is said about Lebron,you whine. If we try saying that this Celtics team is more than a bunch of overachievers,you whine & deflect.
Stop trying to make this thread about us because YOU can't handle someone criticizing your team. Your Superhero checked out with the game on the line, that is not an opinion that is a fact.
@erikthredd said:
Here comes the insecure Cavs fan taking shots at us for talking about the game last night. Some of us have actually tried talking about everything you mentioned but if anything positive is said about Brad Stevens,you whine. If anything negative is said about Lebron,you whine. If we try saying that this Celtics team is more than a bunch of overachievers,you whine & deflect.
Stop trying to make this thread about us because YOU can't handle someone criticizing your team. Your Superhero checked out with the game on the line, that is not an opinion that is a fact.
This is wild.....but just suppose.......Lebron is just playing good enough to get his stats up real good but not win the game.....then after losing the series........ he can go free agent with these stats and try to get on GS!
This is just a crazy speculation and not intended to rile keets.
@erikthredd said:
Here comes the insecure Cavs fan taking shots at us for talking about the game last night. Some of us have actually tried talking about everything you mentioned but if anything positive is said about Brad Stevens,you whine. If anything negative is said about Lebron,you whine. If we try saying that this Celtics team is more than a bunch of overachievers,you whine & deflect.
Stop trying to make this thread about us because YOU can't handle someone criticizing your team. Your Superhero checked out with the game on the line, that is not an opinion that is a fact.
This is wild.....but just suppose.......Lebron is just playing good enough to get his stats up real good but not win the game.....then after losing the series........ he can go free agent with these stats and try to get on GS!
This is just a crazy speculation and not intended to rile keets.
That is absolutely a fair criticism of Lebron regardless of what he wants to think. This stuff that we've been talking about is the hot take today on every sports/nba site and talk radio.
@SanctionII said:
I suspect Cleveland will play a great game 3 on its home court. I would be very surprised if the Celtics win games 3 and 4 in Cleveland.
Home court could definitely be a great remedy to some of their problems but the Cavs biggest problem these past two games has been Boston's effort to outwork them for 48mins on both ends of the court. I'm not saying Boston wins these next two games but you know they'll be going all out,can Cleveland do the same? We'll see.
@SanctionII said:
I do not think James going to GS would ever happen. James to Philly or the Lakers I can see.
GS can't pay him a max deal. They have Durant's extension coming up then Klay Thompson's soon after.
@keets said:
yeah, eric, deflect. I swear dude, I try to make peace with you but that isn't you realm. you are just too negative and narrow-minded.
Dude get over yourself already. If you can't handle something negative said about your team maybe you shouldn't bother reading/commenting here. I'd recommend staying off any sports related site or listening to sports talk radio because everything we've mentioned today has been talked about all day today elsewhere.
@keets said:
so let me get this straight, you guys aren't satisfied with enjoying that the Celtics out-hustled and out-played the Cavs down the stretch, from about the middle of the third quarter, so now it's gloat time and run down the Coach and players time???
that's sort of low class even for this place. why not just dwell on how well Rozier played for a stretch that changed the game??? why not wax poetic about how Tatum seems to hit shots when they count?? why not discuss how this young Team doesn't seem to realize how good they can be??
Most if not all of these things were talked about here.
Who was it that mentioned Boston quitting in Philly’s only win? Who mentioned Boston’s coach losing it and it reflected on him?
In this case you had Cav’s players eye rolling on the court and on the bench. You had bad body language. You had a line up in the the last 6 minutes on the court that included JR Smith who was awful. Lue lost his team in the second half of yesterday’s game. Let’s see if he can get them back soon.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Money issues aside, James would not be a good fit with GS because his status as the best player in the game would make it a bad fit. Would he want to play on a team with multiple all stars and 2 recent MVP's?
Honestly you're going full drama queen over this,just let it go already
here is what I originally said, the first comment about Stevens --- the one thing that is starting to really bug me --- the announcers and the general media have been talking up Brad Stevens as the new Guru. I'm not saying he isn't a good coach but the hype is a bit much. perhaps he can coax another comeback from the Team.
he drew up a few plays. his players praised him. that is all sort of what happens on Teams, especially young Teams. what he didn't do is coax his players to fight back in a playoff game against one of their bigger rivals, they sort of gave up(as I noted in a page six post) and were beaten. instead of fighting he left one of his players get a technical by jawing with a Ref and then himself got a technical. he needs to do more to establish his greatness, because he wasn't so great in the first round when he couldn't coax a road victory out of his Team.
Anyways what were we talking about
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Ty Lue's decisions last night were terrible. He DNP'd Clarkson after he was one of the lone bright spots for Cleveland in game one.
He made no attempt to get Korver going in the 2nd half after how great he was in the first.
He left JR Smith out there while he got spun like a turnstile on defense while doing nothing on the offensive end.
Cleveland's staring backcourt got outscored 41 to 3 yet he stuck with Hill & Smith.
Cleveland's coaching & team effort were so bad Mark Jackson & Jeff Van Gundy pointed it out repeatedly during the entire second half.
@erikthredd said:
Ty Lue's decisions last night were terrible. He DNP'd Clarkson after he was one of the lone bright spots for Cleveland in game one.
He made no attempt to get Korver going in the 2nd half after how great he was in the first.
He left JR Smith out there while he got spun like a turnstile on defense while doing nothing on the offensive end.
Cleveland's staring backcourt got outscored 41 to 3 yet he stuck with Hill & Smith.
and there is that
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Here is a crucial piece of info about Lue I guarantee that none of you have heard before , he totally reminds me of George Jefferson . I keep waiting for him to yell at Florence or slam the door in Bentley's face.
@SanctionII said:
Money issues aside, James would not be a good fit with GS because his status as the best player in the game would make it a bad fit. Would he want to play on a team with multiple all stars and 2 recent MVP's?
If i had to choose one team that i think he goes to its probably the 76ers. If he stays in Cleveland he's stuck with this current team plus whoever they draft with the 8th pick. If he goes to Philly,they have Embiid,Simmons,Saric & Fultz plus they have the 10th overall pick.
@bronco2078 said:
Here is a crucial piece of info about Lue I guarantee that none of you have heard before , he totally reminds me of George Jefferson . I keep waiting for him to yell at Florence or slam the door in Bentley's face.
@SanctionII said:
Money issues aside, James would not be a good fit with GS because his status as the best player in the game would make it a bad fit. Would he want to play on a team with multiple all stars and 2 recent MVP's?
If i had to choose one team that i think he goes to its probably the 76ers. If he stays in Cleveland he's stuck with this current team plus whoever they draft with the 8th pick. If he goes to Philly,they have Embiid,Simmons,Saric & Fultz plus they have the 10th overall pick.
Philly can afford him and the Philly- Boston rivalry gets rachted up about 8 turns
I think he’s going to LA with Leonard and the brights lights and great weather
M
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
If James goes yo Philly or the Lakers he will be the undisputed star of each team. The top players on both teams currently are very young (rookies or 2nd year players) who would ok with James being the star.
@SanctionII said:
If James goes yo Philly or the Lakers he will be the undisputed star of each team. The top players on both teams currently are very young (rookies or 2nd year players) who would ok with James being the star.
Even if he forces them to wear ugly suits like he does to the Cavs?
@SanctionII said:
If James goes yo Philly or the Lakers he will be the undisputed star of each team. The top players on both teams currently are very young (rookies or 2nd year players) who would ok with James being the star.
Even if he forces them to wear ugly suits like he does to the Cavs?
Well when your the leader on the floor and the team lets you play at HC & GM,why not add costume designer to your resume.
@DIMEMAN said:
Who all is watching Game 2 of the WCF tonight!
I thought it started next week?
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@DIMEMAN said:
Who all is watching Game 2 of the WCF tonight!
me! what time should i be over, what are you cooking me and what is the booze selection like at casa de dimeman??
I'm heating up a Pizza and have some Red Wine and Miller Lite.
I’m glad to see you watching your carbs
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@erikthredd said:
They're playing great tonight but it's still the Warriors,blink once and your lead is gone. It's good to see Gordon &Tucker coming thru to this point.
That’s how Houston played most of the year. Good for them
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Comments
I was speaking only to being down 2-0 at the presser
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
gotcha,i didn't see the presser.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Who knows...sometimes Lebron is hard to figure out. Maybe he was out of gas at the end or his neck was giving him problems. The guy is hard to read sometimes.
I'm betting that that neck injury gets played up if the Cavs lose this series especially if the series ends quicker than expected.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I think Lue got out coached badly and Cleveland quit. If they didn’t quit then Boston sucked the life out of the Cav’s.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
They actually looked like the Raptors during that 4th quarter, just going thru the motions.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
That whole thing was a prima dona thing. He acts like he can hardly get up....then heads for the dressing room......then stops and wanders around in the tunnel......then comes back in and stands by the scorers table ready to go in. He may have just been trying to give Boston the idea he was hurt bad so they wouldn't worry so much about him on defense. Didn't work did it!
Well he didn't go full drama queen.....never go full drama queen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysT8RA6JQks
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Another thing Paul P. was a MASTER at was getting the defender in the air and then jumping under him and up for a shot.....getting the foul called on the defender every time!!!!!!!! I HATE THAT CALL!!! It's not right! The defender has the right to come down when he jumps straight up! AAARRRGGGHHH!!!
so let me get this straight, you guys aren't satisfied with enjoying that the Celtics out-hustled and out-played the Cavs down the stretch, from about the middle of the third quarter, so now it's gloat time and run down the Coach and players time???
that's sort of low class even for this place. why not just dwell on how well Rozier played for a stretch that changed the game??? why not wax poetic about how Tatum seems to hit shots when they count?? why not discuss how this young Team doesn't seem to realize how good they can be??
Here comes the insecure Cavs fan taking shots at us for talking about the game last night. Some of us have actually tried talking about everything you mentioned but if anything positive is said about Brad Stevens,you whine. If anything negative is said about Lebron,you whine. If we try saying that this Celtics team is more than a bunch of overachievers,you whine & deflect.
Stop trying to make this thread about us because YOU can't handle someone criticizing your team. Your Superhero checked out with the game on the line, that is not an opinion that is a fact.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
This is wild.....but just suppose.......Lebron is just playing good enough to get his stats up real good but not win the game.....then after losing the series........ he can go free agent with these stats and try to get on GS!
This is just a crazy speculation and not intended to rile keets.
I suspect Cleveland will play a great game 3 on its home court. I would be very surprised if the Celtics win games 3 and 4 in Cleveland.
That is absolutely a fair criticism of Lebron regardless of what he wants to think. This stuff that we've been talking about is the hot take today on every sports/nba site and talk radio.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I do not think James going to GS would ever happen. James to Philly or the Lakers I can see.
Home court could definitely be a great remedy to some of their problems but the Cavs biggest problem these past two games has been Boston's effort to outwork them for 48mins on both ends of the court. I'm not saying Boston wins these next two games but you know they'll be going all out,can Cleveland do the same? We'll see.
GS can't pay him a max deal. They have Durant's extension coming up then Klay Thompson's soon after.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
yeah, eric, deflect. I swear dude, I try to make peace with you but that isn't you realm. you are just too negative and narrow-minded.
Dude get over yourself already. If you can't handle something negative said about your team maybe you shouldn't bother reading/commenting here. I'd recommend staying off any sports related site or listening to sports talk radio because everything we've mentioned today has been talked about all day today elsewhere.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Most if not all of these things were talked about here.
Who was it that mentioned Boston quitting in Philly’s only win? Who mentioned Boston’s coach losing it and it reflected on him?
In this case you had Cav’s players eye rolling on the court and on the bench. You had bad body language. You had a line up in the the last 6 minutes on the court that included JR Smith who was awful. Lue lost his team in the second half of yesterday’s game. Let’s see if he can get them back soon.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Money issues aside, James would not be a good fit with GS because his status as the best player in the game would make it a bad fit. Would he want to play on a team with multiple all stars and 2 recent MVP's?
Anyways what were we talking about
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Ty Lue's decisions last night were terrible. He DNP'd Clarkson after he was one of the lone bright spots for Cleveland in game one.
He made no attempt to get Korver going in the 2nd half after how great he was in the first.
He left JR Smith out there while he got spun like a turnstile on defense while doing nothing on the offensive end.
Cleveland's staring backcourt got outscored 41 to 3 yet he stuck with Hill & Smith.
Cleveland's coaching & team effort were so bad Mark Jackson & Jeff Van Gundy pointed it out repeatedly during the entire second half.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
and there is that
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Here is a crucial piece of info about Lue I guarantee that none of you have heard before , he totally reminds me of George Jefferson . I keep waiting for him to yell at Florence or slam the door in Bentley's face.
If i had to choose one team that i think he goes to its probably the 76ers. If he stays in Cleveland he's stuck with this current team plus whoever they draft with the 8th pick. If he goes to Philly,they have Embiid,Simmons,Saric & Fultz plus they have the 10th overall pick.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Just don't ask him about Rodney Hood
https://uproxx.com/dimemag/tyronn-lue-rodney-hood-cleveland-cavaliers-boston-celtics-nba-playoffs-game-2/
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Philly can afford him and the Philly- Boston rivalry gets rachted up about 8 turns
I think he’s going to LA with Leonard and the brights lights and great weather
M
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
If James goes yo Philly or the Lakers he will be the undisputed star of each team. The top players on both teams currently are very young (rookies or 2nd year players) who would ok with James being the star.
Even if he forces them to wear ugly suits like he does to the Cavs?
Well when your the leader on the floor and the team lets you play at HC & GM,why not add costume designer to your resume.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
it's getting scrappy up in here
i approve
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Who all is watching Game 2 of the WCF tonight!
I thought it started next week?
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
me! what time should i be over, what are you cooking me and what is the booze selection like at casa de dimeman??
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
I guess I deserved that!

Now stop picking on me. 
I'm heating up a Pizza and have some Red Wine and Miller Lite.
Free food & booze? I'd show up in a Cowboys jersey for that.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
That would be worth it!
If i had to pick one it would have to be a Drew Bledsoe Cowboys jersey.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
HaHa....I would make you wear Romo the loser jersey!

I’m glad to see you watching your carbs

m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Rockets came to play tonight. They look good.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
What the h#ll was that. Did they switch uniforms?! Cs did everything bad that Houston did in game 1.
They're playing great tonight but it's still the Warriors,blink once and your lead is gone. It's good to see Gordon &Tucker coming thru to this point.
Eric
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GS should be fined as a team for stinking up the court. They are spending most of the night on the floor whining to the officials.
That was painful to watch. Worst defensive effort I have seen by any team this playoff! Terrible!
Houston was way too good to roll over.
That’s how Houston played most of the year. Good for them
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......