Does this Seated $1 have a Chance of Crossing?
brianc1959
Posts: 350 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'm starting to develop a fear of buying NGC holdered coins, thinking they might not cross over into a PCGS holder. My nightmare is that I'll really screw up and get a coin that falls all the way from seemingly solid Mint State into "Details" hell. That being said, at the recent Heritage auction at Long Beach I pulled the trigger on this NGC-MS63 1871 Seated dollar because I really liked the way it looked. In the viewing room it looked even nicer in-hand:
So, what do you think - will I be happy with the crossover process - meaning it crosses at least MS62 or MS63 -, or have I bought a nightmare?
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I think it may cross, but possibly not at grade. A little hard to tell from the pictures. It looks lustrous.
1TwoBits
If you’re willing to take a 62, I think you’re good. Pretty coin - with a few grade limiting issues
Thanks. A one-point drop would be OK with me. Two or more points will mean I really have no idea what I'm doing!
So what is your real question? Are you looking for affirmation that you did not overpay?
If you like the coin, and only paid one bid increment higher than the next best informed bidder, what difference does it make whether the coin crosses? It's still the same coin. You have at least three opinions now - yours, the underbidder's, and NGC's. Are you suggesting your opinion of it will be swayed now by a fourth opinion?
I like the coin, and am not particularly concerned whether I overpaid or not. However, my opinions are rarely set in stone, and are swayable to some extent.
I'm still in the process of forming my opinions about PCGS, NGC, and the value or lack of value of crossing. I figured I'll get a better education about this if I ask a specific question about an actual coin than to ask a vague generalized question about no coin in particular.
If you enjoy the coin based on how it looks, why do you see the need to cross the coin?
You might wait until you develop your opinions. I don't see your coin as a nightmare
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Looks like a nice coin but it is very hard to grade to within a point from those pictures. As others have said, if you like the coin, why bother to cross it? There isn’t a premium for the PCGS holder for that coin in that grade (the last 2 NGC coins have both sold for more than the last 3 PCGS coins) and a 62 would be worth about $800 less. If you want another opinion, you could always send it to CAC. Of course then it needs to be better than just any old 63. Alternatively, just show it to some knowledgeable collectors or dealers. Lastly, this may not be an issue for you, but I think that’s a fair amount of money to spend if you aren’t confident in your grading abilities. Get an expert to look at it before you bid next time.
That is a nice seated dollar.... it will be limited by the hits on the obverse....Probably hold at MS62. Cheers, RickO
if you like the coin but need the PCGS plastic for personal reasons, send it for "same grade crossover" and await the results. after that you can make a better value assessment and decide what to do next.
personally, I do not think the coin will holder as an MS63 with PCGS.
Put on your submission form what grade you want it crossed at...if it fails to meet that grade it will not cracked out of its NGC holder. If you place ANY in the grade block they will cross it unless they feel that it has a "details" condition limiting a straight grade.
Nice looking dollar and I would agree with the aforementioned MS62, but they may be a little more forgiving due to the large fields which has some chatter.
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With TDN chiming in i'm not sure what more there is to add.
Latin American Collection
If the chatter on the right obverse is on the coin rather than the holder, I would leave as is.
I don't think that it will cross as an MS-63. There is too much chatter in the right obverse field, and the devices are abit too shiny. I think that it would come back as a PCGS MS-62.
Try the cross at grade. You could get lucky.
But let this be a lesson. If you want PCGS, ......BUY..... PCGS.
I only have 2 "keepers" in NGC.
I'll take foreign coins in NGC.
US....no.
I wish I had your problems - I would live to have that $ even in a cardboard 2x2 !
If it meets MS63 criteria it should cross. But the two top tpgs don't want to admit equality on grade, but even HR Hall has admitted that there is around an 80% correlation between top graders today.
My opinion is, if you really want to have a chance to cross in the same grade, you need to bite the bullet, crack it out and send it in raw.
Someone paid almost $3.5 grand for the coin
This in a p3 sold for 3 grand a year ago:
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-6TTJI
That's a nice coin. I'd just leave it in that pre-prong holder. You could always send it for a green sticker...
Nice pick up.
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Down one gade if that's not a hidden scratch on the Eagles wing.
I wouldn’t. It’s a 62
Coinfacts has these MS 63 examples graded by PCGS and NGC in addition to the one cited:
PCGS: https://coins.ha.com/itm/a/1261-17295.s
https://coins.ha.com/itm/a/1240-3949.s
https://coins.ha.com/itm/a/1234-3697.s
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-dollars/1871-1-ms63-pcgs/a/1222-3193.s?hdnJumpToLot=1x=0&y=0
NGC: https://coins.ha.com/itm/a/1272-5090.s
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-dollars/1871-1-ms63-ngc/a/1216-5349.s?hdnJumpToLot=1x=0&y=0
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-dollars/1871-1-ms63-ngc/a/1181-4575.s?hdnJumpToLot=1x=0&y=0
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-2BCGK
Your coin looks at least comparable to most of them.
Here's a "pq" 62 for comparison:
Meh. The ‘pq’ 62 looks gently cleaned. The ngc63 issues are more mainstream: scratch on the eagle and chatter in the right field.
I’m in agreement with the 62 camp. As for the OGH P62, I’m also in agreement with TDN that it looks like a cleaned net-graded coin and has negative eye appeal.
I’d try the cross-at-62 route.
Good luck.
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
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NGC is seductive in the ease of submission.
I think there's too much chatter to get a MS 63 on your coin. Coin appears to have been dipped, and retoned on its obverse. It's not an unattractive coin.
Re PCGS and NGC coins, you need to see quite a few of a specific coin in a particular grade to see differences in how they grade their coins. PC coins do sell at a premium. Sometimes they're better coins and worth the premium. Sometimes you can get a nice NGC coin because people look at the holder and think it has the mark of the beast, and stay away from it.
Years ago, I spent a lot of time looking at Braided Hair Large Cents. I wanted one in MS 65 RB for my type set. The PC coins generally looked slightly better for the grade; a tick or two less, slightly more eye appeal, etc. That said, I found a nice NGC coin that was ignored, bought and crossed it at the same grade.
CAC claims that they don't differentiate between coins which have their sticker.
Just give it some thought, look at many coins, and don't be in a hurry. Unless you're in TDN's league, it's not like if you don't buy X coin now, you won't see another one for five years.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I don't see any reason to downgrade the coin? NGC coins in this grade have been selling for more than PCGS, and the price on this one was healthy at $3480.00. No chance at all that baby get a green sticker.
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I think the eagle is squawking in pain from the wing slash. There's a chance of a "Details - Scratch" if submitted raw. Sorry, but stuff happens. I know 1st hand.
I really appreciate all of the thoughtful replies here. Its a little overwhelming! I agree with TDN that it would probably cross at 62. On the other hand, I like the eye appeal better than any of the PCGS 63's graciously uncovered by LOGGER7. If this turns out to be a money pit, at least its a money pit that I like. I found it especially interesting that the exact same coin was sold in the 2012 Stacks auction for a few hundred $ more than I just paid.
Regarding NGC vs PCGS, I'm leaning toward topstuf's opinion. But there's just so many purty coins out there in NGC holders!
That scratch is well hidden in the feathers. I don't that it will result in a "details" grade.
Unless you have a specific reason to have all your coins in the same service’s holder buy the coins you like. And if you do start crossing them and the coins do not keep the same grade, work on your grading skills and/or buy them in your preferred holder. Paying a strong price for an NGC coin and crossing to a lower PCGS grade (and price point) doesn’t make much sense.
NEVER keep a coin you are not COMPLETELY happy with.
Unless it's just that you would like to upgrade a previously purchased coin. That's okay.
But ...any.... hesitation or doubt will eat at you like a rat.
Getting comfy with coins takes some education.
Education is seldom free.
Whatever you lose on an impulse purchase is just the price of that segment of the education.
One caveat to the above advice: when I first started on my trade dollars I was unsure what grade level set I was going to create. The second or third coin that I purchased was an 1873-CC in Pcgs ms63. Didn’t really like the coin but it was so tough that I figured I’d better take advantage of the opportunity until something better came along. I do believe it took five years for that to happen and I turned a decent profit on my dupe
@SeattleSlammer disagree with no comment. Poor form
Latin American Collection
A nice MS-62 seated Liberty dollar. Actual value does not depend on the label, but on the coin. Compare with other similar coins, NOT with other labels.
I'd also keep in mind the grading range within a grade. A/B/C. You may also have "D", even "D-", still passing but with some humiliation.