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Do you start Nick Foles or Carson Wentz next season?

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  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,431 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Justacommeman said:

    @BillJones said:

    @Justacommeman said:
    “If you listen to the fans, you’ll find yourself sitting with them”

    Philadelphia Eagles football coach Joe Kuharich

    m

    Joe Kuharich was one of the worst coaches and personnel managers of all time. Take the performance of the Baltimore coach today and apply that to Kuharich's career.

    It doesn’t make his words any less true

    m

    When you look at some coaches like Rich Kotie (Eagles and Jets), Chip Kelly (Eagles and 49ers) and Rod Rust, who coached the Patriots to a 1-15 record in 1990, the fans are not always wrong.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:

    @Justacommeman said:

    @BillJones said:

    @Justacommeman said:
    “If you listen to the fans, you’ll find yourself sitting with them”

    Philadelphia Eagles football coach Joe Kuharich

    m

    Joe Kuharich was one of the worst coaches and personnel managers of all time. Take the performance of the Baltimore coach today and apply that to Kuharich's career.

    It doesn’t make his words any less true

    m

    When you look at some coaches like Rich Kotie (Eagles and Jets), Chip Kelly (Eagles and 49ers) and Rod Rust, who coached the Patriots to a 1-15 record in 1990, the fans are not always wrong.

    Nope but when you start listening to the fans all is already lost

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Time for the Eagle fans to order their Super Foles tickets.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,100 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Philly's worst nightmare has to be letting him hit free agency and have the Giants replace Eli with Foles.

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2019 4:38PM

    @erikthredd said:

    Philly's worst nightmare has to be letting him hit free agency and have the Giants replace Eli with Foles.

    everywhere i turn i either read or hear that the Giants are going to draft Kyler Murray

    in other words, the Giants are going to........wait for it......wait for it........draft a QB to pair up with Saquon. i watched this kid a ton in HS (& quite a bit at Oklahoma) and he is ridiculous. he has an arm on him and possesses some serious wheels, but his height (5'9" or 5'10") will be the sticking point. but to that point of contention i have one name: Russell Wilson

    now let's address the never-ending hot topic. you have two options. Kyler Murray & Saquon Barkley or Sam Darnold/Josh Allen/Josh Rosen/Baker Mayfield and no back that is even projected to go in the first round?

    of course the Giants are going to be smelling like roses when the dust settles. they absolutely made the right move last year. imo, the gap between any of those four QBs from last year and Murray is infinitesimal as compared to the mile-long gap between Saquon and ANY back coming out in the draft this year.

    there's the flame. now where's the moth?

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:

    @erikthredd said:

    Philly's worst nightmare has to be letting him hit free agency and have the Giants replace Eli with Foles.

    everywhere i turn i either read or hear that the Giants are going to draft Kyler Murray

    in other words, the Giants are going to........wait for it......wait for it........draft a QB to pair up with Saquon. i watched this kid a ton in HS (& quite a bit at Oklahoma) and he is ridiculous. he has an arm on him and possesses some serious wheels, but his height (5'9" or 5'10") will be the sticking point. but to that point of contention i have one name: Russell Wilson

    now let's address the never-ending hot topic. you have two options. Kyler Murray & Saquon Barkley or Sam Darnold/Josh Allen/Josh Rosen/Baker Mayfield and no back that is even projected to go in the first round?

    of course the Giants are going to be smelling like roses when the dust settles. they absolutely made the right move last year. imo, the gap between any of those four QBs from last year and Murray is infinitesimal as compared to the mile-long gap between Saquon and ANY back coming out in the draft this year.

    there's the flame. now where's the moth?

    The Giants would be completely foolish to draft ANYTHING but either an offensive or defensive lineman. For this season and the future as that is the reason that the team has had serious issues since the last Super Bowl. Football, for all the changes to the rules, is still won in the trenches.

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  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,100 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2019 5:06PM

    @galaxy27 said:

    @erikthredd said:

    Philly's worst nightmare has to be letting him hit free agency and have the Giants replace Eli with Foles.

    everywhere i turn i either read or hear that the Giants are going to draft Kyler Murray

    in other words, the Giants are going to........wait for it......wait for it........draft a QB to pair up with Saquon. i watched this kid a ton in HS (& quite a bit at Oklahoma) and he is ridiculous. he has an arm on him and possesses some serious wheels, but his height (5'9" or 5'10") will be the sticking point. but to that point of contention i have one name: Russell Wilson

    now let's address the never-ending hot topic. you have two options. Kyler Murray & Saquon Barkley or Sam Darnold/Josh Allen/Josh Rosen/Baker Mayfield and no back that is even projected to go in the first round?

    of course the Giants are going to be smelling like roses when the dust settles. they absolutely made the right move last year. imo, the gap between any of those four QBs from last year and Murray is infinitesimal as compared to the mile-long gap between Saquon and ANY back coming out in the draft this year.

    there's the flame. now where's the moth?

    NY is drafting 6th not 2nd and there is no guarantee their QB will still be sitting there with the Raiders & Bucs in front of them. Derek Carr was horrible in Oakland this season and the Raiders can get out of his contract this offseason. Jameis Winston wasn't much better and he's heading into the final year of his contract.

    I don't watch college football so I don't know if Kyler Murray is the next great QB but you put Nick Foles in that Giants offense and their a SB contender in most people's eyes. If they release Eli they save 17M so its not like moving on from him then signing Foles would be a huge obstacle. I do agree that Barkley was the right pick a year ago.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,100 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2019 5:40PM

    You also got the Jags at 7,Broncos at 10,Bengals at 11,Miami at 13 and Washington at 15 who all could be looking to draft a QB. If Kyler Murray is "the" guy in this draft there will be plenty of QB needy teams willing to move up especially if there's a scenario that he doesn't go in the first few picks. Didn't Kliff Kingsbury say he'd draft Kyler Murray at #1 as well.

    The Giants absolutely need a QB so don't take this as the Giants shouldn't go get one. I'm just saying Foles is an option if he's available, that's all. Its not even a guarantee he will be. My comment above was just saying there's no guarantee Murray is there at 6 either,obviously NY could move up there too though.

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:
    You also got the Jags at 7,Broncos at 10,Bengals at 11,Miami at 13 and Washington at 15 who all could be looking to draft a QB. If Kyler Murray is "the" guy in this draft there will be plenty of QB needy teams willing to move up especially if there's a scenario that he doesn't go in the first few picks. Didn't Kliff Kingsbury say he'd draft Kyler Murray at #1 as well.

    The Giants absolutely need a QB so don't take this as the Giants shouldn't go get one. I'm just saying Foles is an option if he's available, that's all. Its not even a guarantee he will be. My comment above was just saying there's no guarantee Murray is there at 6 either,obviously NY could move up there too though.

    I don’t see a reason to move on from Eli for next year. It’s the final year and we have no replacement lined up. A can’t miss QB is not in the draft. And the Giants - and this may be hard to believe - scored the most points in the NFC East. The Giants D was laughable and the offense has special playmakers who could be so much more effective if the Giants line was made up of more than two NFL caliber players.

    Nick Foles and Carson Wentz both reap the benefits of playing behind such a line featuring one of the best LT in football.

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  • JRR300JRR300 Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭✭

    I came into this thread late, but Foles has a mutual option for next year. Even if the Eagles do exercise it at $20 mil, Nick can buy it out for $2 mil and become a free agent. Can the birds afford to commit that kind of money on a backup QB? Also looking at potential landing spots, I just don't see that many. If Jax and Miami are taking a QB in round 1, are they going to pay the money for Foles as a place holder? Denver is possible, but they just paid Keenum pretty well last year and would have a pretty sizable cap hit if they cut him. The Raiders are interesting; Gruden might take a shot with Foles. And then we have the Giants, who have stated that Eli will be their QB. Also with Alex Smith's health an unknown, could they also be interested? Anyone else think of any other real possibilities. Just seems to me that a trade is not feasible given the way the option is structured. Why would a team give up a pick for basically a one year rental?

  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The pundits can spin it any way they wish. The bottom line is that Nick Foles is not going to be back with the Philadelphia Eagles for the 2019 season.

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i don't give two clumps of feces about the New York Giants, but the thought of a Murray-Barkley-OBJ-Engram quartet even gives this Bears fan a chubby

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,100 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium
    An argument can be made for/against keeping Eli though. Foles is 9 years younger than Eli and they'd still have the 6th pick to grab an offensive lineman if thats what they wanted. Most of the mocks I've read had the best Tackle,the kid from Oklahoma, available at 6 and from what I read he can play both Tackle positions. Between signing Solder,drafting the guard in 2018 and grabbing this kid if he's there, you've already rebuilt most of the OL in a year. IIRC the Giants have plenty of other picks including additional midround picks for dealing off players at the trade deadline.
    You say the defense was laughable but go look at NY's D rankings compared to the Pats,Rams & Chiefs. NY was in the same area those teams were in different stats.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,100 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Am I the only one here that has comments disappear if you make an edit?

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,100 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:
    i don't give two clumps of feces about the New York Giants, but the thought of a Murray-Barkley-OBJ-Engram quartet even gives this Bears fan a chubby

    I don't really either but it goes well with today's theme of ragging on the Eagles. ;)

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,100 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JRR300 said:
    I came into this thread late, but Foles has a mutual option for next year. Even if the Eagles do exercise it at $20 mil, Nick can buy it out for $2 mil and become a free agent. Can the birds afford to commit that kind of money on a backup QB? Also looking at potential landing spots, I just don't see that many. If Jax and Miami are taking a QB in round 1, are they going to pay the money for Foles as a place holder? Denver is possible, but they just paid Keenum pretty well last year and would have a pretty sizable cap hit if they cut him. The Raiders are interesting; Gruden might take a shot with Foles. And then we have the Giants, who have stated that Eli will be their QB. Also with Alex Smith's health an unknown, could they also be interested? Anyone else think of any other real possibilities. Just seems to me that a trade is not feasible given the way the option is structured. Why would a team give up a pick for basically a one year rental?

    Of all the teams you mention above the Giants have the best offensive weapons and a recent history of SB success,they would make the most sense for Foles imho if he gets free. Maybe the Jags but they've fallen pretty far in the past year.

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:
    @1951WheatiesPremium
    An argument can be made for/against keeping Eli though. Foles is 9 years younger than Eli and they'd still have the 6th pick to grab an offensive lineman if thats what they wanted. Most of the mocks I've read had the best Tackle,the kid from Oklahoma, available at 6 and from what I read he can play both Tackle positions. Between signing Solder,drafting the guard in 2018 and grabbing this kid if he's there, you've already rebuilt most of the OL in a year. IIRC the Giants have plenty of other picks including additional midround picks for dealing off players at the trade deadline.
    You say the defense was laughable but go look at NY's D rankings compared to the Pats,Rams & Chiefs. NY was in the same area those teams were in different stats.

    A tale of two half seasons, really. The Giants defense played great the first half and awful the second. The Giants offense played lousy the first half and very good the second.

    Some of the defense’s lack of 2nd half of the season performance can be attributed to the loss of Snacks Harrison and Eli Apple to a degree. But we didn’t lose them to injury so we’re left with what’s here.

    A full season of what it was like over the last half of last year for our defense would have us nowhere near the Patriots, Chiefs or Rams. And that, sadly, is the defense we have on paper for next year. There’s talent there in some spots but not enough. And free agency is a dangerous game. Lot of guys walking or getting cut this offseason too.

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  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’ll add this - the way the NFL works today, you almost have to put the rest of the team in place first and add the QB last. Once the get paid they eat up a lot of cap and it’s then a LOT harder to win.

    Most current players with a ring stepped into a GREAT offensive line their rookie season.

    And what do the Jets, Bills and Cards know about their ‘franchise QB’ after year one? Only that they need better protection for them. Ask the Colts how that’s working out - one of the sadder tales of an organization blowing a once in a lifetime talent.

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  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:
    Am I the only one here that has comments disappear if you make an edit?

    Not at all; I fall prey to it rather often. :wink:

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  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,100 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    @erikthredd said:
    @1951WheatiesPremium
    An argument can be made for/against keeping Eli though. Foles is 9 years younger than Eli and they'd still have the 6th pick to grab an offensive lineman if thats what they wanted. Most of the mocks I've read had the best Tackle,the kid from Oklahoma, available at 6 and from what I read he can play both Tackle positions. Between signing Solder,drafting the guard in 2018 and grabbing this kid if he's there, you've already rebuilt most of the OL in a year. IIRC the Giants have plenty of other picks including additional midround picks for dealing off players at the trade deadline.
    You say the defense was laughable but go look at NY's D rankings compared to the Pats,Rams & Chiefs. NY was in the same area those teams were in different stats.

    A tale of two half seasons, really. The Giants defense played great the first half and awful the second. The Giants offense played lousy the first half and very good the second.

    Some of the defense’s lack of 2nd half of the season performance can be attributed to the loss of Snacks Harrison and Eli Apple to a degree. But we didn’t lose them to injury so we’re left with what’s here.

    A full season of what it was like over the last half of last year for our defense would have us nowhere near the Patriots, Chiefs or Rams. And that, sadly, is the defense we have on paper for next year. There’s talent there in some spots but not enough. And free agency is a dangerous game. Lot of guys walking or getting cut this offseason too.

    Like I mentioned above sign Foles,draft your Tackle at 6 and NY would still have a 2nd,3rd,two 4ths,two 5ths,a 6th and mutliple 7ths to mostly use on defense. Foles/OBJ/Barkley would make them a top 5-7 offense if not higher.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,100 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    @erikthredd said:
    Am I the only one here that has comments disappear if you make an edit?

    Not at all; I fall prey to it rather often. :wink:

    That drives me nuts especially if I didn't copy it before posting.

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:
    Am I the only one here that has comments disappear if you make an edit?

    Happens a bit more than occas

    @erikthredd said:

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    @erikthredd said:
    Am I the only one here that has comments disappear if you make an edit?

    Not at all; I fall prey to it rather often. :wink:

    That drives me nuts especially if I didn't copy it before posting.

    Still happens but seemingly less often. I copy responses on any length.

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Odds on where Foles ends up next year

    Odds on where Antonio Brown ends up next year

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • JRR300JRR300 Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭✭

    Sounds like thee opinions above would have Foles to the NYG. Seems to make sense in terms of logic. The Giants have multiple weapons, but as much as Foles likes to spread the ball around, I can forsee an OBJ blowup for not having enough targets. He seems like a selfish player, but I don't watch the NYG all that much. Just seems to be making a stink when he doesn't get the ball enough.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Philadelphia +600 - that's the bookies stealing from their customers. Might as well take that bet money, tie it to a pigeon, and let it loose. LOL

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:

    @erikthredd said:

    Philly's worst nightmare has to be letting him hit free agency and have the Giants replace Eli with Foles.

    everywhere i turn i either read or hear that the Giants are going to draft Kyler Murray

    in other words, the Giants are going to........wait for it......wait for it........draft a QB to pair up with Saquon. i watched this kid a ton in HS (& quite a bit at Oklahoma) and he is ridiculous. he has an arm on him and possesses some serious wheels, but his height (5'9" or 5'10") will be the sticking point. but to that point of contention i have one name: Russell Wilson

    now let's address the never-ending hot topic. you have two options. Kyler Murray & Saquon Barkley or Sam Darnold/Josh Allen/Josh Rosen/Baker Mayfield and no back that is even projected to go in the first round?

    of course the Giants are going to be smelling like roses when the dust settles. they absolutely made the right move last year. imo, the gap between any of those four QBs from last year and Murray is infinitesimal as compared to the mile-long gap between Saquon and ANY back coming out in the draft this year.

    there's the flame. now where's the moth?

    SteveK, please emerge from your chrysalis to address the above assertion, please. :D



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  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2019 10:42PM

    There are four things that can happen with Foles.

    1. The Eagles exercise the $20 million team option and Foles buys out of it for $2 million to become a free agent.

    2.The Eagles decline to exercise the team option and Foles becomes a free agent.

    1. The Eagles exercise the $20 million team option and Foles remains an Eagle as a backup to Wentz.

    2. The Eagles could slap a franchise tag on Foles for the 2019 season that would pay Foles around $25 million with the hopes of trading him or keeping him as a backup.

    Since the most likely scenarios involve Foles joining another team, the oddsmakers are already having their say on where that may be.

    I can’t see Foles wanting to stay in Philly

    *from the same source as the odds posted

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @grote15 said:

    @galaxy27 said:

    @erikthredd said:

    Philly's worst nightmare has to be letting him hit free agency and have the Giants replace Eli with Foles.

    everywhere i turn i either read or hear that the Giants are going to draft Kyler Murray

    in other words, the Giants are going to........wait for it......wait for it........draft a QB to pair up with Saquon. i watched this kid a ton in HS (& quite a bit at Oklahoma) and he is ridiculous. he has an arm on him and possesses some serious wheels, but his height (5'9" or 5'10") will be the sticking point. but to that point of contention i have one name: Russell Wilson

    now let's address the never-ending hot topic. you have two options. Kyler Murray & Saquon Barkley or Sam Darnold/Josh Allen/Josh Rosen/Baker Mayfield and no back that is even projected to go in the first round?

    of course the Giants are going to be smelling like roses when the dust settles. they absolutely made the right move last year. imo, the gap between any of those four QBs from last year and Murray is infinitesimal as compared to the mile-long gap between Saquon and ANY back coming out in the draft this year.

    there's the flame. now where's the moth?

    SteveK, please emerge from your chrysalis to address the above assertion, please. :D

    As stated before, it's too early to properly judge any quarterback in their first season.

    Quarterbacks normally take time to develop in the NFL, sometimes even a number of years. Running backs are ready to play at their top level in their first game in the NFL.

    Frankly, I don't understand how you and others stay with the premise that the Giants going from a 3-13 team two seasons ago to a 5-11 team this season, makes any marked difference in their ability to win a Super Bowl?

    In my view, unless a NFL team is gearing itself to try to win a Super Bowl for their fans, then they are doing their fans a disservice.

    Perhaps the Giants will change. But as it stands right now, Saquon Barkley will have a great career if he doesn't get injured, maybe even make it to the Hall of Fame some day, but never winning a Super Bowl or even being in one.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2019 3:52AM

    It’s going to be really funny if wherever Foles goes he ends up being awful and the team can’t win games or he is awesome and Wentz gets hurt again lol. I don’t wish injury on anyone and don’t want that to happen to Wentz. But any of these scenarios are possible

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stevek said:

    @grote15 said:

    @galaxy27 said:

    @erikthredd said:

    Philly's worst nightmare has to be letting him hit free agency and have the Giants replace Eli with Foles.

    everywhere i turn i either read or hear that the Giants are going to draft Kyler Murray

    in other words, the Giants are going to........wait for it......wait for it........draft a QB to pair up with Saquon. i watched this kid a ton in HS (& quite a bit at Oklahoma) and he is ridiculous. he has an arm on him and possesses some serious wheels, but his height (5'9" or 5'10") will be the sticking point. but to that point of contention i have one name: Russell Wilson

    now let's address the never-ending hot topic. you have two options. Kyler Murray & Saquon Barkley or Sam Darnold/Josh Allen/Josh Rosen/Baker Mayfield and no back that is even projected to go in the first round?

    of course the Giants are going to be smelling like roses when the dust settles. they absolutely made the right move last year. imo, the gap between any of those four QBs from last year and Murray is infinitesimal as compared to the mile-long gap between Saquon and ANY back coming out in the draft this year.

    there's the flame. now where's the moth?

    SteveK, please emerge from your chrysalis to address the above assertion, please. :D

    As stated before, it's too early to properly judge any quarterback in their first season.

    Quarterbacks normally take time to develop in the NFL, sometimes even a number of years. Running backs are ready to play at their top level in their first game in the NFL.

    Frankly, I don't understand how you and others stay with the premise that the Giants going from a 3-13 team two seasons ago to a 5-11 team this season, makes any marked difference in their ability to win a Super Bowl?

    In my view, unless a NFL team is gearing itself to try to win a Super Bowl for their fans, then they are doing their fans a disservice.

    Perhaps the Giants will change. But as it stands right now, Saquon Barkley will have a great career if he doesn't get injured, maybe even make it to the Hall of Fame some day, but never winning a Super Bowl or even being in one.

    This post makes no sense. > @stevek said:

    @grote15 said:

    @galaxy27 said:

    @erikthredd said:

    Philly's worst nightmare has to be letting him hit free agency and have the Giants replace Eli with Foles.

    everywhere i turn i either read or hear that the Giants are going to draft Kyler Murray

    in other words, the Giants are going to........wait for it......wait for it........draft a QB to pair up with Saquon. i watched this kid a ton in HS (& quite a bit at Oklahoma) and he is ridiculous. he has an arm on him and possesses some serious wheels, but his height (5'9" or 5'10") will be the sticking point. but to that point of contention i have one name: Russell Wilson

    now let's address the never-ending hot topic. you have two options. Kyler Murray & Saquon Barkley or Sam Darnold/Josh Allen/Josh Rosen/Baker Mayfield and no back that is even projected to go in the first round?

    of course the Giants are going to be smelling like roses when the dust settles. they absolutely made the right move last year. imo, the gap between any of those four QBs from last year and Murray is infinitesimal as compared to the mile-long gap between Saquon and ANY back coming out in the draft this year.

    there's the flame. now where's the moth?

    SteveK, please emerge from your chrysalis to address the above assertion, please. :D

    As stated before, it's too early to properly judge any quarterback in their first season.

    Quarterbacks normally take time to develop in the NFL, sometimes even a number of years. Running backs are ready to play at their top level in their first game in the NFL.

    Frankly, I don't understand how you and others stay with the premise that the Giants going from a 3-13 team two seasons ago to a 5-11 team this season, makes any marked difference in their ability to win a Super Bowl?

    In my view, unless a NFL team is gearing itself to try to win a Super Bowl for their fans, then they are doing their fans a disservice.

    Perhaps the Giants will change. But as it stands right now, Saquon Barkley will have a great career if he doesn't get injured, maybe even make it to the Hall of Fame some day, but never winning a Super Bowl or even being in one.

    Well, if there’s an expert on not winning or being in Super Bowl, it’s no surprise it’s an Eagles fan.

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  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    @stevek said:

    @grote15 said:

    @galaxy27 said:

    @erikthredd said:

    Philly's worst nightmare has to be letting him hit free agency and have the Giants replace Eli with Foles.

    everywhere i turn i either read or hear that the Giants are going to draft Kyler Murray

    in other words, the Giants are going to........wait for it......wait for it........draft a QB to pair up with Saquon. i watched this kid a ton in HS (& quite a bit at Oklahoma) and he is ridiculous. he has an arm on him and possesses some serious wheels, but his height (5'9" or 5'10") will be the sticking point. but to that point of contention i have one name: Russell Wilson

    now let's address the never-ending hot topic. you have two options. Kyler Murray & Saquon Barkley or Sam Darnold/Josh Allen/Josh Rosen/Baker Mayfield and no back that is even projected to go in the first round?

    of course the Giants are going to be smelling like roses when the dust settles. they absolutely made the right move last year. imo, the gap between any of those four QBs from last year and Murray is infinitesimal as compared to the mile-long gap between Saquon and ANY back coming out in the draft this year.

    there's the flame. now where's the moth?

    SteveK, please emerge from your chrysalis to address the above assertion, please. :D

    As stated before, it's too early to properly judge any quarterback in their first season.

    Quarterbacks normally take time to develop in the NFL, sometimes even a number of years. Running backs are ready to play at their top level in their first game in the NFL.

    Frankly, I don't understand how you and others stay with the premise that the Giants going from a 3-13 team two seasons ago to a 5-11 team this season, makes any marked difference in their ability to win a Super Bowl?

    In my view, unless a NFL team is gearing itself to try to win a Super Bowl for their fans, then they are doing their fans a disservice.

    Perhaps the Giants will change. But as it stands right now, Saquon Barkley will have a great career if he doesn't get injured, maybe even make it to the Hall of Fame some day, but never winning a Super Bowl or even being in one.

    This post makes no sense. > @stevek said:

    @grote15 said:

    @galaxy27 said:

    @erikthredd said:

    Philly's worst nightmare has to be letting him hit free agency and have the Giants replace Eli with Foles.

    everywhere i turn i either read or hear that the Giants are going to draft Kyler Murray

    in other words, the Giants are going to........wait for it......wait for it........draft a QB to pair up with Saquon. i watched this kid a ton in HS (& quite a bit at Oklahoma) and he is ridiculous. he has an arm on him and possesses some serious wheels, but his height (5'9" or 5'10") will be the sticking point. but to that point of contention i have one name: Russell Wilson

    now let's address the never-ending hot topic. you have two options. Kyler Murray & Saquon Barkley or Sam Darnold/Josh Allen/Josh Rosen/Baker Mayfield and no back that is even projected to go in the first round?

    of course the Giants are going to be smelling like roses when the dust settles. they absolutely made the right move last year. imo, the gap between any of those four QBs from last year and Murray is infinitesimal as compared to the mile-long gap between Saquon and ANY back coming out in the draft this year.

    there's the flame. now where's the moth?

    SteveK, please emerge from your chrysalis to address the above assertion, please. :D

    As stated before, it's too early to properly judge any quarterback in their first season.

    Quarterbacks normally take time to develop in the NFL, sometimes even a number of years. Running backs are ready to play at their top level in their first game in the NFL.

    Frankly, I don't understand how you and others stay with the premise that the Giants going from a 3-13 team two seasons ago to a 5-11 team this season, makes any marked difference in their ability to win a Super Bowl?

    In my view, unless a NFL team is gearing itself to try to win a Super Bowl for their fans, then they are doing their fans a disservice.

    Perhaps the Giants will change. But as it stands right now, Saquon Barkley will have a great career if he doesn't get injured, maybe even make it to the Hall of Fame some day, but never winning a Super Bowl or even being in one.

    Well, if there’s an expert on not winning or being in Super Bowl, it’s no surprise it’s an Eagles fan.

    Says someone who forgot already that the Eagles won the Super Bowl last season.

    And enjoy next season when the Giants remain mired in the NFC East cellar.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:
    It’s going to be really funny if wherever Foles goes he ends up being awful and the team can’t win games or he is awesome and Wentz gets hurt again lol. I don’t wish injury on anyone and don’t want that to happen to Wentz. But any of these scenarios are possible

    Anything is possible in the NFL, and I only disagree with a scenario of Foles being awesome.

    I hope I'm wrong because I like Nick Foles a lot.

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stevek

    I have not forgotten the Eagles won the Super Bowl last year but you seem to have forgotten that brings the grand total to one Super Bowl victory, in a tie with the New York Jetroplitans.

    The Giants fixed their biggest problem when they fired Jerry Reese. While he was a good talent evaluator, he was not a good builder of football teams. Dave Gettleman has already done more to improve the Giants in one year than Reese had done in the last 5; from the 2017 Giants, there are 13 players left and most objective people would say the team is in better shape now than it was at the beginning of the season, especially since the GM recognized it was not happening and improved the offseason outlook with in season dealings. That’s a lot of work to improve the team in one season and with his draft history in Carolina and first draft in NY a very solid one, I feel good about their direction for the first time since they let go of Tom Coughlin. And with some disrespect intended to the other three teams, the NFC East was not all that impressive this year.

    So to say the Giants will get nowhere near a Super Bowl in Saquan Barkley’s career during his rookie season is to me absurd, especially from an Eagles fan who just recently tied another poorly run, green flying organization for SB wins.

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  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:
    @stevek

    I have not forgotten the Eagles won the Super Bowl last year but you seem to have forgotten that brings the grand total to one Super Bowl victory, in a tie with the New York Jetroplitans.

    The Giants fixed their biggest problem when they fired Jerry Reese. While he was a good talent evaluator, he was not a good builder of football teams. Dave Gettleman has already done more to improve the Giants in one year than Reese had done in the last 5; from the 2017 Giants, there are 13 players left and most objective people would say the team is in better shape now than it was at the beginning of the season, especially since the GM recognized it was not happening and improved the offseason outlook with in season dealings. That’s a lot of work to improve the team in one season and with his draft history in Carolina and first draft in NY a very solid one, I feel good about their direction for the first time since they let go of Tom Coughlin. And with some disrespect intended to the other three teams, the NFC East was not all that impressive this year.

    So to say the Giants will get nowhere near a Super Bowl in Saquan Barkley’s career during his rookie season is to me absurd, especially from an Eagles fan who just recently tied another poorly run, green flying organization for SB wins.

    I implied that a Super Bowl wouldn't happen with Barkley if the Giants continue on the same path as they are now.

    The Giants are a historically great franchise, we all acknowledge that. However in case you haven't noticed, the Giants have had a losing record in five out of their last six seasons.

    If you think that having Barkley on their team will change that losing if they don't have a better quarterback at the helm, as well as other pieces of the puzzle, now that would be absurd. Their recent 5-11 losing record proves that.

    We shall see what the Giants do moving forward.

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stevek said:

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:
    @stevek

    I have not forgotten the Eagles won the Super Bowl last year but you seem to have forgotten that brings the grand total to one Super Bowl victory, in a tie with the New York Jetroplitans.

    The Giants fixed their biggest problem when they fired Jerry Reese. While he was a good talent evaluator, he was not a good builder of football teams. Dave Gettleman has already done more to improve the Giants in one year than Reese had done in the last 5; from the 2017 Giants, there are 13 players left and most objective people would say the team is in better shape now than it was at the beginning of the season, especially since the GM recognized it was not happening and improved the offseason outlook with in season dealings. That’s a lot of work to improve the team in one season and with his draft history in Carolina and first draft in NY a very solid one, I feel good about their direction for the first time since they let go of Tom Coughlin. And with some disrespect intended to the other three teams, the NFC East was not all that impressive this year.

    So to say the Giants will get nowhere near a Super Bowl in Saquan Barkley’s career during his rookie season is to me absurd, especially from an Eagles fan who just recently tied another poorly run, green flying organization for SB wins.

    I implied that a Super Bowl wouldn't happen with Barkley if the Giants continue on the same path as they are now.

    The Giants are a historically great franchise, we all acknowledge that. However in case you haven't noticed, the Giants have had a losing record in five out of their last six seasons.

    If you think that having Barkley on their team will change that losing if they don't have a better quarterback at the helm, as well as other pieces of the puzzle, now that would be absurd. Their recent 5-11 losing record proves that.

    We shall see what the Giants do moving forward.

    The Packers and Steelers are also coming apart at the seams and yet Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlesberger get no blame and there’s no talk of replacement or moving on there. These are guys in similar points in their career arc with better teams and yet similar disappointment of late.

    Blaming quarterback play here is just poor logic in my estimation. Of the starting guys who protected Eli Manning the last five seasons (prior to this last one) on the O-Line, none are still on the team now and very few if any are rostered in the NFL. There is no QB in the league who thrives under these conditions. They may produce better highlights but win loss will be largely the same. Again, we’ve taken steps to improve the line and more needs to be done - for Barkley AND Eli and his future replacement. To me, the smartest course of action is to keep Eli and keep building the most important part of the team - the O and D line - through the draft.

    Giving up a popular two time Super Bowl winning QB for a rookie project or a free agent quarterback would be extremely counterproductive at this point. Neither class features anything can’t miss, talent wise. If I thought there was someone special this year or last, I’d have been more open to it. Truth be told, I kind of liked Baker Mayfield but we never had the chance to draft him anyway.

    And for all the talk of the future of the NFL and the mobile passer, there’s a decent chance the Super Bowl will feature two fairly immobile (though excellent) QBs in Drew Brees and Tom Brady.

    Give me a great o-line and an experienced pocket passer any day of the week!

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  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2019 9:02AM

    @stevek

    I should also point out that I have intentionally stayed away from the entire issue involving the WR who we dare not speak his name for fear of his doing something else stupid. I’m convinced he was benched (in house) for the end of the season and eternally hopeful that he could be moved for a great return, I am also realistically after now 5 seasons of wishing for it dismally resigned to the fact that he won’t be traded.

    Unless you rooted for a team that had TO, I don’t think you can really understand how someone so good can be so bad for a team.

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  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Folers is gone , watch him go somewhere else and win a superbowl meanwhile back in Philly wentz misses 12 games for a bad sunburn and Steve will still think its the right decision

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2019 10:17AM

    @MLBdays said:
    The Jags have such a good D they are just waiting for anyone but Bortles and they could ezily win a SB with Foles.

    Not sure how you can say that. Their D was straight up awful

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,361 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MLBdays said:
    @perkdog ... the team mailed it in after they lost heart....look up any pundit's top 3 defenses and the Jags have it. OF 32 teams Jags allowed 19.8 points per game #4 in NFL this past season......this after they mailed it in with 6 games left.

    They have talent for sure but “Mailing it in” and “Losing heart” is a sign of a lack of character and says a lot about them in a negative way. I will take a less talented D with heart and self respect any day

  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    @stevek said:

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:
    @stevek

    I have not forgotten the Eagles won the Super Bowl last year but you seem to have forgotten that brings the grand total to one Super Bowl victory, in a tie with the New York Jetroplitans.

    The Giants fixed their biggest problem when they fired Jerry Reese. While he was a good talent evaluator, he was not a good builder of football teams. Dave Gettleman has already done more to improve the Giants in one year than Reese had done in the last 5; from the 2017 Giants, there are 13 players left and most objective people would say the team is in better shape now than it was at the beginning of the season, especially since the GM recognized it was not happening and improved the offseason outlook with in season dealings. That’s a lot of work to improve the team in one season and with his draft history in Carolina and first draft in NY a very solid one, I feel good about their direction for the first time since they let go of Tom Coughlin. And with some disrespect intended to the other three teams, the NFC East was not all that impressive this year.

    So to say the Giants will get nowhere near a Super Bowl in Saquan Barkley’s career during his rookie season is to me absurd, especially from an Eagles fan who just recently tied another poorly run, green flying organization for SB wins.

    I implied that a Super Bowl wouldn't happen with Barkley if the Giants continue on the same path as they are now.

    The Giants are a historically great franchise, we all acknowledge that. However in case you haven't noticed, the Giants have had a losing record in five out of their last six seasons.

    If you think that having Barkley on their team will change that losing if they don't have a better quarterback at the helm, as well as other pieces of the puzzle, now that would be absurd. Their recent 5-11 losing record proves that.

    We shall see what the Giants do moving forward.

    The Packers and Steelers are also coming apart at the seams and yet Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlesberger get no blame and there’s no talk of replacement or moving on there. These are guys in similar points in their career arc with better teams and yet similar disappointment of late.

    Blaming quarterback play here is just poor logic in my estimation. Of the starting guys who protected Eli Manning the last five seasons (prior to this last one) on the O-Line, none are still on the team now and very few if any are rostered in the NFL. There is no QB in the league who thrives under these conditions. They may produce better highlights but win loss will be largely the same. Again, we’ve taken steps to improve the line and more needs to be done - for Barkley AND Eli and his future replacement. To me, the smartest course of action is to keep Eli and keep building the most important part of the team - the O and D line - through the draft.

    Giving up a popular two time Super Bowl winning QB for a rookie project or a free agent quarterback would be extremely counterproductive at this point. Neither class features anything can’t miss, talent wise. If I thought there was someone special this year or last, I’d have been more open to it. Truth be told, I kind of liked Baker Mayfield but we never had the chance to draft him anyway.

    And for all the talk of the future of the NFL and the mobile passer, there’s a decent chance the Super Bowl will feature two fairly immobile (though excellent) QBs in Drew Brees and Tom Brady.

    Give me a great o-line and an experienced pocket passer any day of the week!

    I don't disagree with ya at all about the offensive line. For example, any team taking a lock Pro Bowl stud left tackle high in the draft is building their team the right way.

    As you stated Eli as we know brought two Super Bowls to New York. And it's tough to part with a player such as that. But let's tell it straight, this is a business, Eli knows that, and i think it's good business to always part with a great player a little bit too early than too late. The Giants could have gotten all kinds of draft picks for Eli one or two seasons ago, but they didn't do it. Now Eli has little value in the marketplace.

    The Giants are now stuck between a rock and a hard place as far as Super Bowl possibilities at this point, and we shall see what they do in the upcoming draft to try to rectify that.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bronco2078 said:
    Folers is gone , watch him go somewhere else and win a superbowl meanwhile back in Philly wentz misses 12 games for a bad sunburn and Steve will still think its the right decision

    Not "think" it's the right decision, know it's the right decision.

    Sometimes the right decision doesn't work out, but that doesn't mean it should have been done differently. For those who play poker, it's like going all-in with pocket aces, and the aces get cracked and you lose. It didn't turn out very well, but still the right decision was made.

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Watching the Jags play last year was torture like. Their O put their D in tough spots all year. That entire team was a trianwreck

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,361 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stevek said:

    @bronco2078 said:
    Folers is gone , watch him go somewhere else and win a superbowl meanwhile back in Philly wentz misses 12 games for a bad sunburn and Steve will still think its the right decision

    Not "think" it's the right decision, know it's the right decision.

    Sometimes the right decision doesn't work out, but that doesn't mean it should have been done differently. For those who play poker, it's like going all-in with pocket aces, and the aces get cracked and you lose. It didn't turn out very well, but still the right decision was made.

    But you can’t lose what you don’t put in the middle 😜

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stevek said:

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    @stevek said:

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:
    @stevek

    I have not forgotten the Eagles won the Super Bowl last year but you seem to have forgotten that brings the grand total to one Super Bowl victory, in a tie with the New York Jetroplitans.

    The Giants fixed their biggest problem when they fired Jerry Reese. While he was a good talent evaluator, he was not a good builder of football teams. Dave Gettleman has already done more to improve the Giants in one year than Reese had done in the last 5; from the 2017 Giants, there are 13 players left and most objective people would say the team is in better shape now than it was at the beginning of the season, especially since the GM recognized it was not happening and improved the offseason outlook with in season dealings. That’s a lot of work to improve the team in one season and with his draft history in Carolina and first draft in NY a very solid one, I feel good about their direction for the first time since they let go of Tom Coughlin. And with some disrespect intended to the other three teams, the NFC East was not all that impressive this year.

    So to say the Giants will get nowhere near a Super Bowl in Saquan Barkley’s career during his rookie season is to me absurd, especially from an Eagles fan who just recently tied another poorly run, green flying organization for SB wins.

    I implied that a Super Bowl wouldn't happen with Barkley if the Giants continue on the same path as they are now.

    The Giants are a historically great franchise, we all acknowledge that. However in case you haven't noticed, the Giants have had a losing record in five out of their last six seasons.

    If you think that having Barkley on their team will change that losing if they don't have a better quarterback at the helm, as well as other pieces of the puzzle, now that would be absurd. Their recent 5-11 losing record proves that.

    We shall see what the Giants do moving forward.

    The Packers and Steelers are also coming apart at the seams and yet Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlesberger get no blame and there’s no talk of replacement or moving on there. These are guys in similar points in their career arc with better teams and yet similar disappointment of late.

    Blaming quarterback play here is just poor logic in my estimation. Of the starting guys who protected Eli Manning the last five seasons (prior to this last one) on the O-Line, none are still on the team now and very few if any are rostered in the NFL. There is no QB in the league who thrives under these conditions. They may produce better highlights but win loss will be largely the same. Again, we’ve taken steps to improve the line and more needs to be done - for Barkley AND Eli and his future replacement. To me, the smartest course of action is to keep Eli and keep building the most important part of the team - the O and D line - through the draft.

    Giving up a popular two time Super Bowl winning QB for a rookie project or a free agent quarterback would be extremely counterproductive at this point. Neither class features anything can’t miss, talent wise. If I thought there was someone special this year or last, I’d have been more open to it. Truth be told, I kind of liked Baker Mayfield but we never had the chance to draft him anyway.

    And for all the talk of the future of the NFL and the mobile passer, there’s a decent chance the Super Bowl will feature two fairly immobile (though excellent) QBs in Drew Brees and Tom Brady.

    Give me a great o-line and an experienced pocket passer any day of the week!

    I don't disagree with ya at all about the offensive line. For example, any team taking a lock Pro Bowl stud left tackle high in the draft is building their team the right way.

    As you stated Eli as we know brought two Super Bowls to New York. And it's tough to part with a player such as that. But let's tell it straight, this is a business, Eli knows that, and i think it's good business to always part with a great player a little bit too early than too late. The Giants could have gotten all kinds of draft picks for Eli one or two seasons ago, but they didn't do it. Now Eli has little value in the marketplace.

    The Giants are now stuck between a rock and a hard place as far as Super Bowl possibilities at this point, and we shall see what they do in the upcoming draft to try to rectify that.

    Agree with first half but you’re just wrong on Eli on so many levels.

    He’s such an interesting case.

    There’s no middle ground with Eli it seems; some see him as great and others average and very lucky. There’s no changing your mind once it’s made up, either (unless you gave me a real chance to prove it with an open mind and virtually no numbers) and there’s loads of data to support either argument.

    While not many get to this point anymore, some do but it’s very rare and special and says a tremendous about the player in any sport: spending their whole career with one team.

    For everything he’s accomplished, how he has done it and the high character he has shown despite ample opportunities and reasons to be arrogant, Eli Manning has earned the right to finish this contract. If he were smart, he’d take less money and make this his final year and allow the Giants to load for bear (and eagle) and try to ride off into the sunset with the class and dignity he’s shown throughout.

    Even with a great draft and savvy free agent moves, the Giants are not going to be a Super Nowl favorite. But taking a solid LT ( I hear there’s two top ten worthy) is the only logical play for a return to annual playoff contender (which gives you almost the same chance as anyone these days). And It’s ironic because Eli actually had a pretty good year, too - despite the 5-11 mark which hangs heavy around his neck. And to think how many points we left on the board in the red zone (HUGE indicator of a weak offensive line when you have a back like Barkley) and we still led the NFC East in scoring?

    Pick a Round 1 LT, rest of draft take defense and one more year of Eli. If he’s done (as many say), we’ll be at the top next year and that class has to be better than this one...

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  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    @stevek said:

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    @stevek said:

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:
    @stevek

    I have not forgotten the Eagles won the Super Bowl last year but you seem to have forgotten that brings the grand total to one Super Bowl victory, in a tie with the New York Jetroplitans.

    The Giants fixed their biggest problem when they fired Jerry Reese. While he was a good talent evaluator, he was not a good builder of football teams. Dave Gettleman has already done more to improve the Giants in one year than Reese had done in the last 5; from the 2017 Giants, there are 13 players left and most objective people would say the team is in better shape now than it was at the beginning of the season, especially since the GM recognized it was not happening and improved the offseason outlook with in season dealings. That’s a lot of work to improve the team in one season and with his draft history in Carolina and first draft in NY a very solid one, I feel good about their direction for the first time since they let go of Tom Coughlin. And with some disrespect intended to the other three teams, the NFC East was not all that impressive this year.

    So to say the Giants will get nowhere near a Super Bowl in Saquan Barkley’s career during his rookie season is to me absurd, especially from an Eagles fan who just recently tied another poorly run, green flying organization for SB wins.

    I implied that a Super Bowl wouldn't happen with Barkley if the Giants continue on the same path as they are now.

    The Giants are a historically great franchise, we all acknowledge that. However in case you haven't noticed, the Giants have had a losing record in five out of their last six seasons.

    If you think that having Barkley on their team will change that losing if they don't have a better quarterback at the helm, as well as other pieces of the puzzle, now that would be absurd. Their recent 5-11 losing record proves that.

    We shall see what the Giants do moving forward.

    The Packers and Steelers are also coming apart at the seams and yet Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlesberger get no blame and there’s no talk of replacement or moving on there. These are guys in similar points in their career arc with better teams and yet similar disappointment of late.

    Blaming quarterback play here is just poor logic in my estimation. Of the starting guys who protected Eli Manning the last five seasons (prior to this last one) on the O-Line, none are still on the team now and very few if any are rostered in the NFL. There is no QB in the league who thrives under these conditions. They may produce better highlights but win loss will be largely the same. Again, we’ve taken steps to improve the line and more needs to be done - for Barkley AND Eli and his future replacement. To me, the smartest course of action is to keep Eli and keep building the most important part of the team - the O and D line - through the draft.

    Giving up a popular two time Super Bowl winning QB for a rookie project or a free agent quarterback would be extremely counterproductive at this point. Neither class features anything can’t miss, talent wise. If I thought there was someone special this year or last, I’d have been more open to it. Truth be told, I kind of liked Baker Mayfield but we never had the chance to draft him anyway.

    And for all the talk of the future of the NFL and the mobile passer, there’s a decent chance the Super Bowl will feature two fairly immobile (though excellent) QBs in Drew Brees and Tom Brady.

    Give me a great o-line and an experienced pocket passer any day of the week!

    I don't disagree with ya at all about the offensive line. For example, any team taking a lock Pro Bowl stud left tackle high in the draft is building their team the right way.

    As you stated Eli as we know brought two Super Bowls to New York. And it's tough to part with a player such as that. But let's tell it straight, this is a business, Eli knows that, and i think it's good business to always part with a great player a little bit too early than too late. The Giants could have gotten all kinds of draft picks for Eli one or two seasons ago, but they didn't do it. Now Eli has little value in the marketplace.

    The Giants are now stuck between a rock and a hard place as far as Super Bowl possibilities at this point, and we shall see what they do in the upcoming draft to try to rectify that.

    Agree with first half but you’re just wrong on Eli on so many levels.

    He’s such an interesting case.

    There’s no middle ground with Eli it seems; some see him as great and others average and very lucky. There’s no changing your mind once it’s made up, either (unless you gave me a real chance to prove it with an open mind and virtually no numbers) and there’s loads of data to support either argument.

    While not many get to this point anymore, some do but it’s very rare and special and says a tremendous about the player in any sport: spending their whole career with one team.

    For everything he’s accomplished, how he has done it and the high character he has shown despite ample opportunities and reasons to be arrogant, Eli Manning has earned the right to finish this contract. If he were smart, he’d take less money and make this his final year and allow the Giants to load for bear (and eagle) and try to ride off into the sunset with the class and dignity he’s shown throughout.

    Even with a great draft and savvy free agent moves, the Giants are not going to be a Super Nowl favorite. But taking a solid LT ( I hear there’s two top ten worthy) is the only logical play for a return to annual playoff contender (which gives you almost the same chance as anyone these days). And It’s ironic because Eli actually had a pretty good year, too - despite the 5-11 mark which hangs heavy around his neck. And to think how many points we left on the board in the red zone (HUGE indicator of a weak offensive line when you have a back like Barkley) and we still led the NFC East in scoring?

    Pick a Round 1 LT, rest of draft take defense and one more year of Eli. If he’s done (as many say), we’ll be at the top next year and that class has to be better than this one...

    Sorry to have to tell ya this, but overall, you're obviously in denial. The bottom line is as previously mentioned, the Giants have had a losing record in five out of the last six seasons.

    Is Eli totally to blame? Of course not, but the quarterback being the most important player on the team, has to be analyzed in that perspective considering the Giants performance these past six seasons.

    What you need to understand as well, is virtually every optimistic fan of any losing football team, can look at their team with a positive note about the future, and that's all well and good as an eternally hopeful fan. The fans say their team only has to do this or that to get better and then be a Super Bowl contender, and technically that can be true. However the teams in front of them are also trying to get better as well.

    The draft as we all know helps to even out the playing field so that the bad teams have the first opportunity each year to choose the best players. The key is choosing the right players to put together a winning football team, and the Giants simply have not been doing that.

    Will the Giants front office get wiser as time goes on? We shall see. However I don't foresee any discernible improvement happening for the Giants going into the 2019 season, as far as contending for the Super Bowl. Barkley will be Barkley, but Eli will be a year older and likely less effective. That is not progress.

    After the 2019 season, then it will be six out of seven losing seasons for the Giants, and the same old optimistic Giants fans stories around this same time next year about things can get better.

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stevek said:

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    @stevek said:

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    @stevek said:

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:
    @stevek

    I have not forgotten the Eagles won the Super Bowl last year but you seem to have forgotten that brings the grand total to one Super Bowl victory, in a tie with the New York Jetroplitans.

    The Giants fixed their biggest problem when they fired Jerry Reese. While he was a good talent evaluator, he was not a good builder of football teams. Dave Gettleman has already done more to improve the Giants in one year than Reese had done in the last 5; from the 2017 Giants, there are 13 players left and most objective people would say the team is in better shape now than it was at the beginning of the season, especially since the GM recognized it was not happening and improved the offseason outlook with in season dealings. That’s a lot of work to improve the team in one season and with his draft history in Carolina and first draft in NY a very solid one, I feel good about their direction for the first time since they let go of Tom Coughlin. And with some disrespect intended to the other three teams, the NFC East was not all that impressive this year.

    So to say the Giants will get nowhere near a Super Bowl in Saquan Barkley’s career during his rookie season is to me absurd, especially from an Eagles fan who just recently tied another poorly run, green flying organization for SB wins.

    I implied that a Super Bowl wouldn't happen with Barkley if the Giants continue on the same path as they are now.

    The Giants are a historically great franchise, we all acknowledge that. However in case you haven't noticed, the Giants have had a losing record in five out of their last six seasons.

    If you think that having Barkley on their team will change that losing if they don't have a better quarterback at the helm, as well as other pieces of the puzzle, now that would be absurd. Their recent 5-11 losing record proves that.

    We shall see what the Giants do moving forward.

    The Packers and Steelers are also coming apart at the seams and yet Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlesberger get no blame and there’s no talk of replacement or moving on there. These are guys in similar points in their career arc with better teams and yet similar disappointment of late.

    Blaming quarterback play here is just poor logic in my estimation. Of the starting guys who protected Eli Manning the last five seasons (prior to this last one) on the O-Line, none are still on the team now and very few if any are rostered in the NFL. There is no QB in the league who thrives under these conditions. They may produce better highlights but win loss will be largely the same. Again, we’ve taken steps to improve the line and more needs to be done - for Barkley AND Eli and his future replacement. To me, the smartest course of action is to keep Eli and keep building the most important part of the team - the O and D line - through the draft.

    Giving up a popular two time Super Bowl winning QB for a rookie project or a free agent quarterback would be extremely counterproductive at this point. Neither class features anything can’t miss, talent wise. If I thought there was someone special this year or last, I’d have been more open to it. Truth be told, I kind of liked Baker Mayfield but we never had the chance to draft him anyway.

    And for all the talk of the future of the NFL and the mobile passer, there’s a decent chance the Super Bowl will feature two fairly immobile (though excellent) QBs in Drew Brees and Tom Brady.

    Give me a great o-line and an experienced pocket passer any day of the week!

    I don't disagree with ya at all about the offensive line. For example, any team taking a lock Pro Bowl stud left tackle high in the draft is building their team the right way.

    As you stated Eli as we know brought two Super Bowls to New York. And it's tough to part with a player such as that. But let's tell it straight, this is a business, Eli knows that, and i think it's good business to always part with a great player a little bit too early than too late. The Giants could have gotten all kinds of draft picks for Eli one or two seasons ago, but they didn't do it. Now Eli has little value in the marketplace.

    The Giants are now stuck between a rock and a hard place as far as Super Bowl possibilities at this point, and we shall see what they do in the upcoming draft to try to rectify that.

    Agree with first half but you’re just wrong on Eli on so many levels.

    He’s such an interesting case.

    There’s no middle ground with Eli it seems; some see him as great and others average and very lucky. There’s no changing your mind once it’s made up, either (unless you gave me a real chance to prove it with an open mind and virtually no numbers) and there’s loads of data to support either argument.

    While not many get to this point anymore, some do but it’s very rare and special and says a tremendous about the player in any sport: spending their whole career with one team.

    For everything he’s accomplished, how he has done it and the high character he has shown despite ample opportunities and reasons to be arrogant, Eli Manning has earned the right to finish this contract. If he were smart, he’d take less money and make this his final year and allow the Giants to load for bear (and eagle) and try to ride off into the sunset with the class and dignity he’s shown throughout.

    Even with a great draft and savvy free agent moves, the Giants are not going to be a Super Nowl favorite. But taking a solid LT ( I hear there’s two top ten worthy) is the only logical play for a return to annual playoff contender (which gives you almost the same chance as anyone these days). And It’s ironic because Eli actually had a pretty good year, too - despite the 5-11 mark which hangs heavy around his neck. And to think how many points we left on the board in the red zone (HUGE indicator of a weak offensive line when you have a back like Barkley) and we still led the NFC East in scoring?

    Pick a Round 1 LT, rest of draft take defense and one more year of Eli. If he’s done (as many say), we’ll be at the top next year and that class has to be better than this one...

    Sorry to have to tell ya this, but overall, you're obviously in denial. The bottom line is as previously mentioned, the Giants have had a losing record in five out of the last six seasons.

    Is Eli totally to blame? Of course not, but the quarterback being the most important player on the team, has to be analyzed in that perspective considering the Giants performance these past six seasons.

    What you need to understand as well, is virtually every optimistic fan of any losing football team, can look at their team with a positive note about the future, and that's all well and good as an eternally hopeful fan. The fans say their team only has to do this or that to get better and then be a Super Bowl contender, and technically that can be true. However the teams in front of them are also trying to get better as well.

    The draft as we all know helps to even out the playing field so that the bad teams have the first opportunity each year to choose the best players. The key is choosing the right players to put together a winning football team, and the Giants simply have not been doing that.

    Will the Giants front office get wiser as time goes on? We shall see. However I don't foresee any discernible improvement happening for the Giants going into the 2019 season, as far as contending for the Super Bowl. Barkley will be Barkley, but Eli will be a year older and likely less effective. That is not progress.

    After the 2019 season, then it will be six out of seven losing seasons for the Giants, and the same old optimistic Giants fans stories around this same time next year about things can get better.

    Sounds like an avatar bet for next year.

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Brett Favre thinks that they should keep and start Foles

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Career Cinderella scenario for Foles. Signs next year as a backup to Eli. Eli goes down midway through the season with a season ending injury. Foles steps in leads the G men to a Super Bowl win.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
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