Home U.S. Coin Forum

"Black Beauty" Peace $ ????

Ive seen and owned a couple of black toned Morgans (usually just one sided) but in 20 years I have never seen a black toned MS Peace $... it has almost become the holy grail of my collection now... I have one darkly toned Peace $ that has some color along with the dark/black toning but not one where the entire obverse or reverse is toned black on top of nice luster...

Has anyone ever seen one ?

Comments

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hold some over a bit of burning sulfur - that will create all the black sulfide tarnish you could want. It will also ruin the coin since the tarnish can never be completely removed and "conservation" will always leave a residue.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,178 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I owned one- neat coin. Wish I had kept it! Called it, "Black Betty" back in the day. (PCGS MS60)

    peacockcoins

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Have not seen one

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    Hold some over a bit of burning sulfur - that will create all the black sulfide tarnish you could want. It will also ruin the coin since the tarnish can never be completely removed and "conservation" will always leave a residue.

    Also, open a window.

    Try this with a 22P for your best chance of maintaining the illusion of remaining underlying lustre.
    If you can stop at one coin it'll be cheaper than a psychotherapeutic intervention.

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,906 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do not recall seeing one here :smile:

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just saw 3- Peace $'s not my cup of tea.



    Hoard the keys.
  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2017 5:30PM

    @Type2 said:
    I just saw 3- Peace $'s not my cup of tea."")

    3 Black Beauty Peace $ ? Really ? Got a link or a show name or something to help me find one of them.... lol

  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭

    @lasvegasteddy said:
    graders are thrown for a loop here n there....a black beauty peace buck
    yup
    this will be such a case

    here's mine from a black leather coin purse with neon toning on some areas
    pcgs called it enviro damage...trueview was a tad dark too which hide the colors
    this trueview is lightened a tad
    enjoy if ya do

    Its a nice coin but its not what I mean when I say "Black Beauty" as in Morgan "Black Beauty" -- the entire obverse/reverse is monochromatic black with luster underneath the toning...

  • mt_mslamt_msla Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭

    I made this post back in April, when I bought the coin.

    And yeah, it's got luster all day. I could take new photos if you'd like to see them.

    Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow...great looking coin.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Black is normally the terminal phase of tarnish on silver.... unless it is not tarnish, but rather a foreign residue. For a full black tarnish on silver, I am not sure any luster would remain, or be visible. Cheers, RickO

  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Type2 said:
    I just saw 3- Peace $'s not my cup of tea.

    It was a joke from another post no where as nice as a "black beauty"

    Linky https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/991429/two-made-it-ahhh-one-did-not#latest



    Hoard the keys.
  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In my experience, black beauty refers to coins that have been improperly annealed as oppose to toned coins.

  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017 9:39AM

    @ricko said:
    Black is normally the terminal phase of tarnish on silver.... unless it is not tarnish, but rather a foreign residue. For a full black tarnish on silver, I am not sure any luster would remain, or be visible. Cheers, RickO

    Not all black toning is the same or terminal... and PCGS, NGC and ANACS all grade
    black coins...

    But I suppose these are as close as I can find on Ebay right now to the type of toning I am talking about...




  • @TonerGuy

    Back when I collected toned Peace Dollars a couple of years ago, Joe Kaminsky had one. I seem to recall it being jet black, yet it had at least the appearance of luster beaming through. It was low grade MS in PCGS plastic. I think the asking price was $400 or $500.

  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭

    @coinguy1989 said:
    @TonerGuy

    Back when I collected toned Peace Dollars a couple of years ago, Joe Kaminsky had one. I seem to recall it being jet black, yet it had at least the appearance of luster beaming through. It was low grade MS in PCGS plastic. I think the asking price was $400 or $500.

    I remember when he was selling off quite of few of his but I dont remember the jet black one - I would have bought it for that price.

    Well it took me 20 years to find a rainbow toned MS65 1921 - it might take another 20 to find a jet black one with beaming luster... lol

  • @TonerGuy said:

    @coinguy1989 said:
    @TonerGuy

    Back when I collected toned Peace Dollars a couple of years ago, Joe Kaminsky had one. I seem to recall it being jet black, yet it had at least the appearance of luster beaming through. It was low grade MS in PCGS plastic. I think the asking price was $400 or $500.

    I remember when he was selling off quite of few of his but I dont remember the jet black one - I would have bought it for that price.

    Well it took me 20 years to find a rainbow toned MS65 1921 - it might take another 20 to find a jet black one with beaming luster... lol

    If I come across one, I’ll PM you a lead.

  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,211 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ever see a black beauty gold?

  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭

    @coinguy1989 said:

    @TonerGuy said:

    @coinguy1989 said:
    @TonerGuy

    Back when I collected toned Peace Dollars a couple of years ago, Joe Kaminsky had one. I seem to recall it being jet black, yet it had at least the appearance of luster beaming through. It was low grade MS in PCGS plastic. I think the asking price was $400 or $500.

    I remember when he was selling off quite of few of his but I dont remember the jet black one - I would have bought it for that price.

    Well it took me 20 years to find a rainbow toned MS65 1921 - it might take another 20 to find a jet black one with beaming luster... lol

    If I come across one, I’ll PM you a lead.

    Thank you very much !

  • jerseycat101jerseycat101 Posts: 1,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've been looking for this white whale for a while myself. I haven't seen one in a problem-free holder, yet.

  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh, how I love dirty, crusty, old gold!

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2017 6:01AM

    You guys are not helping with my decision NOT to buy a gun-metal blued Dollar that I have been looking at...repeatedly...over the past few months. My holdback is that the dealer wants quite a bit over market for it.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do you have a Morgan example of exactly the look you are talking about? Please post!

  • TennesseeDaveTennesseeDave Posts: 4,787 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had a very nice Black Beauty Morgan a few years ago, but I suspect a Peace $ will be extremely hard to find with that kind of toning. Good luck with your hunt. Here is what I think you want, only the entire coin toned.

    Trade $'s
  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2017 10:01AM

    @jerseycat101 said:
    I've been looking for this white whale for a while myself. I haven't seen one in a problem-free holder, yet.

    Yep... I finally got my rainbow toned 21 Peace $ after 20 yrs. I knew that one existed since I saw one when I first started. It was owned by a friend and I knew he would never sell it. But as for this type of toning, I never seen any examples, Ive never seen anyone even post an example on any message board. Its like a PL Peace $... I dont think its exists but I will keep looking. Good luck on your hunt as well!

    @TennesseeDave said:
    I had a very nice Black Beauty Morgan a few years ago, but I suspect a Peace $ will be extremely hard to find with that kind of toning. Good luck with your hunt. Here is what I think you want, only the entire coin toned.

    Thats one of the Leather Pouch Hoard toned Peace $... they arent black - more blue/purplish...

  • jerseycat101jerseycat101 Posts: 1,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TennesseeDave said:
    I had a very nice Black Beauty Morgan a few years ago, but I suspect a Peace $ will be extremely hard to find with that kind of toning. Good luck with your hunt. Here is what I think you want, only the entire coin toned.


    Thats one of the Leather Pouch Hoard toned Peace $... they arent black - more blue/purplish...

    Not only are the Leather Pouch 314 Peace Dollars AT (in my opinion), I also believe they have altered surfaces.

    It's a shame these circulate at the prices they do.

  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭

    @jerseycat101 said:

    @TennesseeDave said:
    I had a very nice Black Beauty Morgan a few years ago, but I suspect a Peace $ will be extremely hard to find with that kind of toning. Good luck with your hunt. Here is what I think you want, only the entire coin toned.


    Thats one of the Leather Pouch Hoard toned Peace $... they arent black - more blue/purplish...

    Not only are the Leather Pouch 314 Peace Dollars AT (in my opinion), I also believe they have altered surfaces.

    It's a shame these circulate at the prices they do.

    I like'em. I have one of the highest graded at NGC MS65* ... Im over the whole AT/NT/QT/MA issue. If someone collects rainbow toned coins - there is a very strong likelihood that a percentage of their coins are not as NT as they would like to believe. The more I learn about toning the more I realize that PCGS, NGC and CAC are clueless about it.

    The fact that the Leather Pouch Hoard sell at the prices they do and that the toned Ikes coming out of Utah also sell for nice premiums seems to indicate that its the color and the blessing of PCGS/NGC is all that matters. (and CAC has beaned those Peace $ as well)

    Worrying about is this AT or NT just isnt that important to me anymore. Rather its do you think PCGS/NGC will slabbed it and will CAC bean it ? lol

  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    In my experience, black beauty refers to coins that have been improperly annealed as oppose to toned coins.

    Yes like this.





    Hoard the keys.
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,342 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Will PCGS straight-grade those Jefferson's?

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @oih82w8 said:
    Will PCGS straight-grade those Jefferson's?

    Yes but they will come back like this.

    and if sent to ANACS it will say Black Beauty.



    Hoard the keys.
  • drwstr123drwstr123 Posts: 7,040 ✭✭✭✭✭


  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,342 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Type2 said:

    @oih82w8 said:
    Will PCGS straight-grade those Jefferson's?

    Yes but they will come back like this.

    and if sent to ANACS it will say Black Beauty.


    Even if you don't request or pay for the "mint error" fee of $60 per coin?

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • PocketArtPocketArt Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good luck @TonerGuy; I'm looking for one too. I'd seen a few "black" peace dollars in a silver junk bin a few years ago but they were no beauties. Probably XF at best, and showing no luster. They caught my attention but I threw them back...

    Here's my Morgan "Black Beauty," I call her the "Apocalypse..." Not really- lol, but she is my black pearl! Faint textile at 3 o'clock, and I'm quite pleased to own her...can you tell????

  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭

    @PocketArt - beautiful... that is exactly what I am talking about and looking for in a Peace $ "Black Beauty"

  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,469 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have one.....well, a nephew of mine does. My brother and I were at a show and I pointed it out, how the luster and charcoal toning gave it tremendous eye appeal. We moved to look at more coins at other tables before he disappeared and than reappeared with the coin. He gave it to his son.

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • jerseycat101jerseycat101 Posts: 1,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @leothelyon said:
    I have one.....well, a nephew of mine does. My brother and I were at a show and I pointed it out, how the luster and charcoal toning gave it tremendous eye appeal. We moved to look at more coins at other tables before he disappeared and than reappeared with the coin. He gave it to his son.

    PICTURES REQUIRED!!

  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 17,526 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's my 1922-D with some reverse black toning.


    AU50

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file