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I'd like to start investing in silver slowly. Any advice

So I'd really like to start investing in silver but not spending a whole bunch on it at once so any advice from the people on this board that have been doing it a while and do you have suggestions on where I should start how much to buy. I really don't know the first thing about getting into that

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    BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What is your thesis underlying the investment?

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    renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Rollo may have smoe pointers. Rollo?

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd say that American Silver Eagles would be a decent place to start. If you buy rolls, you should be able to get some discounts, and the coins are well recognized through the bullion and numismatic industries and quite liquid. You could even line up some dates if you would like.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,405 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Suggest that you visit the Precious Metals Forum where there are many discussions concerning silver.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Dagingerbeasttt ...as mentioned above, spend time on the Precious Metals Forum.... If you are investing, stacking bullion ASE's is a good start. Their liquidity is excellent. Also, as above, make sure you are diversified in your investments. Bullion can pay off, it can also sink... or, as recent years show... stagnate. Cheers, RickO

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    ElmhurstElmhurst Posts: 775 ✭✭✭

    You have answerd your own question...do it slowly

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    KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All sound advice and I will add. Don’t buy on late night TV.

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

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    RegistryCoinRegistryCoin Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭✭

    Coinstar machines? ;)

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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,729 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To me, an investment is something that can yield additional income..... real estate can be rented, stocks pay dividends, education results in higher wages, etc.

    Parking money in PMs is fine, as long as you understand that you’re really speculating on the market. When considering how much to buy, figure in opportunity costs (the benefits you would have realized by buying something else).

    Personally, I think about 10% of your net worth in PMs is plenty. Buy a little gold & silver and pray like crazy that the price falls. When PM prices go up, it’s usually when the economy is tanking.

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    JcldJcld Posts: 449 ✭✭✭

    I would start buying rounds or bars in whatever amount that you feel comfortable parking for a while. ASE are awesome but unless you buy them in quantity the premium on them seems to be too steep for someone just wanting to invest in silver. Look at online places like JM bullion, Apmex. Some of them have intro offers for new clients like rounds at spot or things like that.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,873 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There are 3 main reasons someone "invests" in precious metals:
    1. Speculation on price increases
    2. Disaster insurance
    3. Diversification of asset classes

    The reason is critical to how you want to "invest". IF the goal is price increases in a normal, functioning economic system, you probably don't want to buy physical silver. You can get much lower premiums from Wall Street vehicles that track the price of silver. If you buy silver eagles at $2 to $3 over spot, you need a 10+% price increase just to break even. Further, silver does not pay dividends and has not historically increased at anywhere near the rate of economic growth.

    Diversification of asset classes. Again, you may be better in a non-physical vehicle if the sole goal is to diversify your portfolio. You can hold physical silver/gold, but they are not generally an efficient means of either buying or selling because of the Bid/Ask spread.

    Disaster insurance. Buy physical silver in the most liquid, safest vehicle you can get. Liquidity demands some kind of easily saleable vehicle, probably NOT bars. You want 90% or eagles/maple leafs etc. But safety also may mean NOT buying silver from anyone but an AD or trustworthy commercial entity. There are so many fakes out there, unless you have a gun or some kind of insurance you risk buying a certain percentage of accidental fakes. [Large local dealer just bought a proof gold eagle from a smaller local dealer and discovered it was a plated copy, even though it was in the OGP with papwork. He has a $10k gun to check purity. Most of us don't.]

    The most important thing to recognize about insurance - you don't expect it to turn a profit. Not ever. Unless there is an actual disaster. You don't make money on car insurance, unless you total your Bentley on the 1st day you own it. You don't make money on home owner's insurance unless your house burns to the ground. You don't make money on life insurance...unless you die young.

    IMHO, of course.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,873 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:
    To me, an investment is something that can yield additional income..... real estate can be rented, stocks pay dividends, education results in higher wages, etc.

    Parking money in PMs is fine, as long as you understand that you’re really speculating on the market. When considering how much to buy, figure in opportunity costs (the benefits you would have realized by buying something else).

    Personally, I think about 10% of your net worth in PMs is plenty. Buy a little gold & silver and pray like crazy that the price falls. When PM prices go up, it’s usually when the economy is tanking.

    This is ALL so true. I wish people understood this better. It is doubly dangerous when coin COLLECTORS want to dabble in PMs, because they are too emotionally invested in the "investment" to be dispassionate about it.

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    ARCOARCO Posts: 4,311 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Stacking or "investing" in silver is alluring for collectors. Silver coins are just cool and who doesn't want to hoard them by the thousands? Well, from my experience, silver is more about hoarding or "insurance" than it is investing. It is speculating mostly, and silver's large price run-ups do not happen all that frequently. I like coins that are fun to look at and that are the most liquid. My favs:

    Mexican onzas
    Silver eagles
    Unc. US Franklin half dollars.
    US Silver dollars - there is a bit more of numismatic value attached above the true silver value.

    My least favorite:

    Silver bars - Boring
    junk silver dimes & quarters - boring
    collector 1 oz silver bars by private companies

    The biggest advice is to only pay for silver with the lowest premiums over the silver value. A lot of sellers like to think that their common of common silver rolls are worth some special premium.

    Tyler

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    dagingerbeastttdagingerbeasttt Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭

    Thank you for all of the advice guys. It is very much appreciated.im gonna go lurk on the previous metal board and learn some things from there posts. I shall post my first silver buy . I plan on buying sometime around Saturday!

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    dagingerbeastttdagingerbeasttt Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭

    @Dagingerbeasttt said:
    Thank you for all of the advice guys. It is very much appreciated.im gonna go lurk on the previous metal board and learn some things from there posts. I shall post my first silver buy . I plan on buying sometime around Saturday!

    Typos... Precious metals

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    metalmeistermetalmeister Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Go slowly to average in price in case it drops. I would go 10% Silver 5% Gold 5% mining stocks 5% bonds, 40% stocks 35% cash at this time. I would not invest in real estate at this time. We are out of the real estate investment market and just have our house only. I do not want to be a land lord at this point in my life. Cheers

    email: ccacollectibles@yahoo.com

    100% Positive BST transactions
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    AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For what reason? 90% silver coins in bulk (rolls) is super easy and always easy to sell. I find that dime rolls and quarter rolls sell like hotcakes and always for a premium so if you can but at melt then you'd be doing just fine.

    My passion is CC coinage and I bought CC GSA dollars for many years. Finally I needed an extra 90K to buy a house and cashed out and did very well. So, Morgans are a good way to go as well.

    bob

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:
    Typically, premiums decline sharply when silver moves significantly higher. Therefore, I'd stick to items that can purchased very close to the actual "melt value". ASE's are way too expensive in this regard, even if purchased in bulk.

    Depends on who you can sell to. You likely won't get melt from a dealer for rounds. If you can sell to the same folks that the dealer does, then ASEs are the safest most trusted forms. Considering the small amounts he is talking about, there's not a lot to be gained from buying generic silver.

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    BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My advice, if you must buy silver bullion, is to buy items you will enjoy owning, looking at, photographing, and showing to family and friends, even if you end up losing money on them when sell time comes, and even if you grow old and die owning them for decades waiting for them to go up and they go to your heirs.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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    dagingerbeastttdagingerbeasttt Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the advice and stories guys !

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Add gold to the mix if you're speccing metal.

    Gold 80%
    Silver 20%

    of the portfolio.

    If you can't "afford" ....any.... gold then don't do metals.

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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Baley said:
    My advice, if you must buy silver bullion, is to buy items you will enjoy owning, looking at, photographing, and showing to family and friends, even if you end up losing money on them when sell time comes, and even if you grow old and die owning them for decades waiting for them to go up and they go to your heirs.

    I can't picture any bullion meeting that description. The OP doesn't appear to be a seasoned flipper, buyer, stacker so for that reason the safe play is ASEs.

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    GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2017 12:17PM

    @Kkathyl said:
    All sound advice and I will add. Don’t buy on late night TV.

    Yes don't buy from HSN AKA Mike! I know the hard way! Well the only good thing I guess is I got 8 free grading of coins from ANACS. We will see how that one goes. I sent those 8 coins yesterday to ANACS.

    I owns about 25% of my assets in assets. 15% in bullion and 08 % in graded silver coins and 2% in Palladium graded coins. I own enough food and water to last 2 months. I also own a goodly (sorry I am watching Gold Fever on TV!) amount of G#n's and B#llet's in my Coin Safe just in case! Don't live in a flood zone area. Don't live in a hurricane path area. Don't in a earthquake area.

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    dagingerbeastttdagingerbeasttt Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @Baley said:
    My advice, if you must buy silver bullion, is to buy items you will enjoy owning, looking at, photographing, and showing to family and friends, even if you end up losing money on them when sell time comes, and even if you grow old and die owning them for decades waiting for them to go up and they go to your heirs.

    I can't picture any bullion meeting that description. The OP doesn't appear to be a seasoned flipper, buyer, stacker so for that reason the safe play is ASEs.

    I'm most def not knowledgeable in this area at all. I've been looking up some ASEs. And I think I'm gonna start there . Seems about semi affordable.

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    dagingerbeastttdagingerbeasttt Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭

    @Gluggo said:

    @Kkathyl said:
    All sound advice and I will add. Don’t buy on late night TV.

    Yes don't buy from HSN AKA Mike! I know the hard way! Well the only good thing I guess is I got 8 free grading of coins from ANACS. We will see how that one goes. I sent those 8 coins yesterday to ANACS.

    I owns about 25% of my assets in assets. 15% in bullion and 08 % in graded silver coins and 2% in Palladium graded coins. I own enough food and water to last 2 months. I also own a goodly (sorry I am watching Gold Fever on TV!) amount of G#n's and B#llet's in my Coin Safe just in case! Don't live in a flood zone area. Don't live in a hurricane path area. Don't in a earthquake area.

    I do not plan on buying from t.v what so ever.

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    dagingerbeastttdagingerbeasttt Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭

    So now my question would be, what or where is my safest option on buying ASE's. Local shops, the mint, online ? A shop I recently just visited had some for $2 above spot. Is that a decent deal ? Sorry for all the questions in advance but your guys advice is very insightful

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    GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2017 12:41PM

    @Dagingerbeasttt said:
    So now my question would be, what or where is my safest option on buying ASE's. Local shops, the mint, online ? A shop I recently just visited had some for $2 above spot. Is that a decent deal ? Sorry for all the questions in advance but your guys advice is very insightful

    Wow I think I will pass on that one cause I am sure I paid the highest dollars. I did buy from APMEX, MCM, L&C, Liberty, Pinehurst, US Mint, Bullion Exchange, and some from Ebay. I want to forget about my 2 purchases at HSN. All the Big Boys I bought from so I paid FULL RETAIL. Don't follow my way unless you don't care. I just did not care but I am ready bring it on! Ohhh and FIRST IN LINE at the US MINT!

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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Dagingerbeasttt said:
    So now my question would be, what or where is my safest option on buying ASE's. Local shops, the mint, online ? A shop I recently just visited had some for $2 above spot. Is that a decent deal ? Sorry for all the questions in advance but your guys advice is very insightful

    It's a decent deal if they are nice coins, genuine and not spotted, scrapers or otherwise blemished rejects. FWIW, the mint sells new coins to a select group of distributors for $2 over spot.

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My advice would depend on your age, income level and goals. I favor a gradual buildup of standard bullion items, without getting into too many variations.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    dagingerbeastttdagingerbeasttt Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @Dagingerbeasttt said:
    So now my question would be, what or where is my safest option on buying ASE's. Local shops, the mint, online ? A shop I recently just visited had some for $2 above spot. Is that a decent deal ? Sorry for all the questions in advance but your guys advice is very insightful

    It's a decent deal if they are nice coins, genuine and not spotted, scrapers or otherwise blemished rejects. FWIW, the mint sells new coins to a select group of distributors for $2 over spot.

    I definitely did not notice any spotting going on and I'm pretty sure they're genuine but I'm not an expert at that either.

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    dagingerbeastttdagingerbeasttt Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    My advice would depend on your age, income level and goals. I favor a gradual buildup of standard bullion items, without getting into too many variations.

    Well I'm 23 I'm a contractor so I make fair amount of money so I'm more than confident I can gradually build up and whatever I decide to start buying which I think I'm going to start with ASE's

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    ScarsdaleCoinScarsdaleCoin Posts: 5,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My three cents.... budget x number of dollars per month for your purchase. Each month purchase that exact amount ... of course what will vary each month will be the number of oz you purchase. This is DCA. Dollar Cost Averaging. It’s a common technique and will help you Long term. Good luck

    Jon Lerner - Scarsdale Coin - www.CoinHelp.com
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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You would be better off buying problem free key date classic coins.

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    GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2017 2:29PM

    @DIMEMAN said:
    You would be better off buying problem free key date classic coins.

    Unless they are counterfeit sounds like that is a problem growing very fast. I don't have the knowledge to identify them like some here. But be aware if you go that route.

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2017 3:13PM

    Well I'm 23 I'm a contractor so I make fair amount of money so I'm more than confident I can gradually build up and whatever I decide to start buying which I think I'm going to start with ASE's

    Ok, here's the deal. You will have times when you will need the money, for things you probably don't think too much about right now. In addition to that, you will definitely have beaucoup time over the next few decades to build a stash. That's exactly the reason I suggest buying standard items such as ASEs, but I would buy them in larger "chunks" as time goes on. Buying larger chunks makes the tax accounting easier so that you aren't tracking a zillion separate purchases and trying to figure your cost basis and profit (or loss) on the run every time you sell some.

    Since you have beaucoup time to accumulate, I would make sure that it's money that you don't plan on spending anytime soon, i.e. for at least 5 years in your case. This will force you not to buy beyond your means and then have to turn around & liquidate. Transaction costs are a big deal, so minimize them. Getting the best price is fine, but make sure that you are buying from a trusted and proven source (which is most important with bullion).

    Take a longterm approach, which means that you should expect to buy some silver at $16/oz., then maybe some at $23/oz., then maybe later at $9.00/oz. The hardest thing to do is to buy at $9.00 after you've already seen $16/oz. and $23/oz. But, it's also the way to accumulate. If you accumulate over the long term, and I mean long term - at one point it won't even matter what your high and low purchase points are.

    You could do exactly the same thing with the Vanguard 500 Index Fund, but then you wouldn't have quite as much control over the program.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    dennis1219dennis1219 Posts: 267 ✭✭✭

    You won’t be disappointed you did this in the future. As long as you have other investments. For me personally, I place between 15-20% in PM’s. I love silver below 20 and gold around1100.. so I am heavier on silver now. I personally buy silver eagles, 1964 Kennedy’s (90 silver) and kilo bars. Buy from reputable dealers.

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    dagingerbeastttdagingerbeasttt Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    Well I'm 23 I'm a contractor so I make fair amount of money so I'm more than confident I can gradually build up and whatever I decide to start buying which I think I'm going to start with ASE's

    Ok, here's the deal. You will have times when you will need the money, for things you probably don't think too much about right now. In addition to that, you will definitely have beaucoup time over the next few decades to build a stash. That's exactly the reason I suggest buying standard items such as ASEs, but I would buy them in larger "chunks" as time goes on. Buying larger chunks makes the tax accounting easier so that you aren't tracking a zillion separate purchases and trying to figure your cost basis and profit (or loss) on the run every time you sell some.

    Since you have beaucoup time to accumulate, I would make sure that it's money that you don't plan on spending anytime soon, i.e. for at least 5 years in your case. This will force you not to buy beyond your means and then have to turn around & liquidate. Transaction costs are a big deal, so minimize them. Getting the best price is fine, but make sure that you are buying from a trusted and proven source (which is most important with bullion).

    Take a longterm approach, which means that you should expect to buy some silver at $16/oz., then maybe some at $23/oz., then maybe later at $9.00/oz. The hardest thing to do is to buy at $9.00 after you've already seen $16/oz. and $23/oz. But, it's also the way to accumulate. If you accumulate over the long term, and I mean long term - at one point it won't even matter what your high and low purchase points are.

    You could do exactly the same thing with the Vanguard 500 Index Fund, but then you wouldn't have quite as much control over the program.

    Thank you for the advice. I think.i shall try that approach. It seems it would be a good fit for me !

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    dagingerbeastttdagingerbeasttt Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭

    @dennis1219 said:
    You won’t be disappointed you did this in the future. As long as you have other investments. For me personally, I place between 15-20% in PM’s. I love silver below 20 and gold around1100.. so I am heavier on silver now. I personally buy silver eagles, 1964 Kennedy’s (90 silver) and kilo bars. Buy from reputable dealers.

    I'm going to start of with silver eagles and then go from there !

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    privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Agree with the ASE being the best start.

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

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    COCollectorCOCollector Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great deal for beginners: JMB Starter Pack

    Best online prices: https://findbullionprices.com/

    Silverbug forum: https://www.reddit.com/r/Silverbugs/

    Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.

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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,835 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Picked up a few hundred FV in 90%. Want some ? Former contractor spamming here.

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    BruceSBruceS Posts: 1,350 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would start an IRA and max it out, (if you dont have one already) at your age compound interest is an amazing thing. After that, buying some PMs slowly over time will just add to to your bottom line and the swings will mean less if you attend to hold long term.


    eBay ID-bruceshort978
    Successful BST:here and ATS, bumanchu, wdrob, hashtag, KeeNoooo, mikej61, Yonico, Meltdown, BAJJERFAN, Excaliber, lordmarcovan, cucamongacoin, robkool, bradyc, tonedcointrader, mumu, Windycity, astrotrain, tizofthe, overdate, rwyarmch, mkman123, Timbuk3,GBurger717, airplanenut, coinkid855 ,illini420, michaeldixon, Weiss, Morpheus, Deepcoin, Collectorcoins, AUandAG, D.Schwager.
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    air4mdcair4mdc Posts: 797 ✭✭✭✭

    Take this advice for what’s it worth, and I think it’s pretty sound and worthy of some thought on your part.
    Being twenty-three and a contractor the odds are pretty favorable that you will switch careers or something will happen to your job in the not so distant future.
    So, my advice to you is forget stacking silver. And gold is too uncertain for you to invest in and to see a good return for how much you would need to invest in to make some money. Remember, silver and gold does not pay dividends.
    You need to stash some cash first off. At least six months of emergency money.
    Then you need to look into a company sponsored 401K. Max the contribution out. Or start a Roth or an IRA with an investment firm if your company does not sponsor such an investment.
    Then if you have some discretionary funds left over to play with after paying bills and having money for everyday living expenses, then, maybe buy some silver.
    Personally, I would not purchased more than ASE a week.
    It’s all about time.....and the compounding of your investment.
    Get into the stock market and ride the highs and lows for the next 30-40years. Max out and you will have several million plus.
    I would highly discourage my children from investing in PM’s.
    Just for the heck of it.....look at FDX, BABA and ADBE. These are investment returns.
    Again.....forget silver and gold. You will never get rich on it.
    Collect for fun and enjoy this as a hobby not an investment.

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    dagingerbeastttdagingerbeasttt Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭

    @COCollector said:
    Great deal for beginners: JMB Starter Pack

    Best online prices: https://findbullionprices.com/

    Silverbug forum: https://www.reddit.com/r/Silverbugs/

    Thanks for the links sir

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    dagingerbeastttdagingerbeasttt Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    Picked up a few hundred FV in 90%. Want some ? Former contractor spamming here.

    Will message you

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    dagingerbeastttdagingerbeasttt Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭

    @BruceS said:
    I would start an IRA and max it out, (if you dont have one already) at your age compound interest is an amazing thing. After that, buying some PMs slowly over time will just add to to your bottom line and the swings will mean less if you attend to hold long term.

    That's the plan is long term. And not even for me, honestly more for my son. So when I'm gone he has some kind of security from me .

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    dagingerbeastttdagingerbeasttt Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭

    @air4mdc said:
    Take this advice for what’s it worth, and I think it’s pretty sound and worthy of some thought on your part.
    Being twenty-three and a contractor the odds are pretty favorable that you will switch careers or something will happen to your job in the not so distant future.
    So, my advice to you is forget stacking silver. And gold is too uncertain for you to invest in and to see a good return for how much you would need to invest in to make some money. Remember, silver and gold does not pay dividends.
    You need to stash some cash first off. At least six months of emergency money.
    Then you need to look into a company sponsored 401K. Max the contribution out. Or start a Roth or an IRA with an investment firm if your company does not sponsor such an investment.
    Then if you have some discretionary funds left over to play with after paying bills and having money for everyday living expenses, then, maybe buy some silver.
    Personally, I would not purchased more than ASE a week.
    It’s all about time.....and the compounding of your investment.
    Get into the stock market and ride the highs and lows for the next 30-40years. Max out and you will have several million plus.
    I would highly discourage my children from investing in PM’s.
    Just for the heck of it.....look at FDX, BABA and ADBE. These are investment returns.
    Again.....forget silver and gold. You will never get rich on it.
    Collect for fun and enjoy this as a hobby not an investment.

    I certainly appreciate your advice and opinion friend. And I agree being a contractor isn't a what you would call retirement job, but there will always be a need for construction and I would consider myself pretty well rounded in all trades. That being said, making returns off silver would be awesome but I have long term plans more for it being security for my son when I'm gone. My plan is to buy 100 to 200 in ASEs a week for five years . And then I'll see how it goes from there. But if the plan doesnt go as planned it will not ruin collecting for me. I've got bitten by the coin bug and don't think that can be undone lol. But again I certainly appreciate your advice and I shall be cautious with my journey with pm. And again thank you to everyone who has commented and gav me there advice on where to start. It is very much appreciated!!

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