The NGC 70s will not cross. Frankly, there 4 PCGS 70s that I saw were marginal.
This IS a rare coin in 70. I don't know about $900 rare, but rare
So who says the one sold for near $900 isn't one of the "marginal" ones?
It may be, but the PCGS ones are definitely to a much higher standard than the NGC. Sure, you might have one of the legit 70s in an NGC holder and I might have one of the "marginal ones" in a PCGS holder. But, the NGC coin will not be worth what the PCGS coin is until you cross it.
I mean, the PCGS 69s might 70 on resubmission, but that won't ever make the 69 market equal to the 70.
I just think there is a Block Island coin problem in general. I have been trying to find one REGULAR silver Block Island quarter in PCGS PR70, and no luck for months. I am offering $125 for one shipped to me. If interested PM me. Also the Block Island 5 ounce puck will be coming out and I anticipate it will have problems as well with 70's especially in the non-vapor blasted bullion version.
Also, I will add that the reverse silver Block Island NGC PF70's I saw were all scratched on the base of Washington when viewed at a certain angle. As stated above, these are a modern condition rarity in PCGS PR70.
@Goldminers said:
I just think there is a Block Island coin problem in general. I have been trying to find one REGULAR silver Block Island quarter in PCGS PR70, and no luck for months. I am offering $125 for one shipped to me. If interested PM me.
Maybe they used the same machine to mint the regular silver as the reverse proof silver......just a change of the dies...
I see a number of challenges with the high prices in the block quarter via PCGS 70:
Firstly, I have seen a wide range of quality in the Mercury dimes in PCGS 70 and the Palladium Eagles. If you go to sell it are you going to offer the buyer a return policy because it isn’t “perfect“?
Secondly, what happens to the value of this coin when and if it’s spots?
How long do you intend on holding it to avoid the potential spotting, or is it a quick clip?
In the past, more of the 70s invariably come into the market and drive the price down.
I see a number of challenges with the high prices in the block quarter via PCGS 70: So do I as the first several had some unusually strong bidding by about 4-5 people. When they have their coins the price will drop.
Firstly, I have seen a wide range of quality in the Mercury dimes in PCGS 70 and the Palladium Eagles. If you go to sell it are you going to offer the buyer a return policy because it isn’t “perfect“? No, I would not usually accept returns on graded coins. If they don't like it they should send it back to NGC or PCGS for grade guarantee review.
Secondly, what happens to the value of this coin when and if it’s spots? I have a lot of modern silver PCGS PR70 coins and I just have not had much of a spot problem so far, thankfully.
How long do you intend on holding it to avoid the potential spotting, or is it a quick flip? I actually collect them in sets and have for decades, and do not flip very often, as usually I am unsuccessful, LOL.
In the past, more of the 70s invariably come into the market and drive the price down. This is absolutely true for modern coins and the buyer needs to factor that into their price or they will regret it. All very valid questions.
People seem to be ignoring the Registry Sets......
If you want to remain on top, you NEED to be 1st on the block to get the top pop coins. Ties go to the 1st one there, right?
Regardless, if you have 6 people with perfect sets (quarters, whatever) and there are only 4 "perfect" of a particular one out there, bidding will be intense.
If there are MANY out there, not as big of a deal.
To some, money isn't that much of an object, when it comes to staying on top of the registry.
@Bochiman said:
People seem to be ignoring the Registry Sets......
If you want to remain on top, you NEED to be 1st on the block to get the top pop coins. Ties go to the 1st one there, right?
Regardless, if you have 6 people with perfect sets (quarters, whatever) and there are only 4 "perfect" of a particular one out there, bidding will be intense.
If there are MANY out there, not as big of a deal.
To some, money isn't that much of an object, when it comes to staying on top of the registry.
For sure registry sets are a major demand factor. In the Washington silver basic quarter set of just the modern 1999-date proofs there are 173 sets registered and 24 are top #1 PR70 sets. another 25 or so are very close and several likely working their way from 69's to 70's. So there alone might be demand for about 50 Block reverse PR70's.
But then there are the Washington collectors who have the really amazing classic or complete registry sets with all dates, clads, proofs, varieties, types, etc.. Most all in that level will want one of these in PCGS 70, so until maybe 100 of these are graded they will have some high competitive bids. And some who really care, will pay more for even "better" PCGS PR70's, as there is a variety of quality in all 70's.
And yes there are timing factors for order in the registry.
The following logic is used:
Highest rating NOW
Highest rating EVER
Highest rating ever DATE
As an example:
Set #1 with the highest rating goes to the top slot.
If set #2 ties set #1's rating, then set #1 remains in the top slot regardless of the first or last published date.
If set #2 updates set to beat #1's rating, then #2 will take the top slot.
If set #1 ties #2, #2 remains in the top slot because that set achieves the highest rating first.
Edited to add that the PCGS registry also considers "rarity" in the rating system. so some coins in PR70 get 71 rating points and some get 142 rating points for example. This coin in my opinion is a condition "rarity", even with a fairly high quantity of 200,000 sold and deserves extra points in the ratings if in PR70 vs 69.
Yes, for full disclosure, I have a set that "needed" this "Holy Grail" coin, and I already got one like the Frenchmen in the castle. LOL
@MsMorrisine said:
I would love to see an electron microscope of the lines. I wonder if they are flow lines in the die or scratches in the coin.
Interesting question. Did you see my picture on page 12? It is with a microscope camera, but a cheap one that I do not really know what magnification, but takes OK quick pictures. I have seen many of these 4x, 6x, 10x, 20-40x digital enhanced and they all look like scratches to me and at very different depths, widths, and number. The one I saw that did not really have them and I was really excited as that is where I look first, had a couple dings on the left side that ruined it for me.
Since my queries on die life in this forum indicated about 5,000 to 10,000 proof double struck coins max. I do not see this as an "in the die" issue unless all dies are now made from one damaged "master die" by 3d printing or engraving or something new?
I was examining mine and found those same scratches along the base of Washington's neck just like Goldminers said. I was using a 10x loupe outside and when the sun hit those scratches, they really lit up. All in various sizes. Then examining the other quarters, I discovered some scratches on some of them as well. It isn't a problem limited just to Block Island quarters. Anybody else see that too?
@Goldminers said:
Here is an example of what I found on my Block reverse proof quarters. This one is not even as bad as several others I sent back. I still believe the reverse proof block island quarters had a problem with the obverse at least on the coins I received.
Also, it is surprisingly hard to find a good regular silver block island quarter in PR70, that is not a reverse proof.
Edited to add that also look carefully at the surface finish not just the scuff marks. These were not minted very well for some reason compared to most others. This is why I think the die is worn or not well polished and handling of the coins either by robot or person somehow also scuffed them. I had 7 of 10 like this in various degrees.
@MsMorrisine said:
I was guessing they reused the same obverse die to death.
However
If the scratches vary this much then scratches they are. No need for any further electron examination.
Too bad. Now I wonder if more than 2% are scratched.
More than 2% were scratches. In fact, I believe maybe 98%+ were scratched if that was what you meant. LOL
I have seen only one of these in any PR or PF70 holders or in sets that did not have visible scratches under 5X mag like PCGS uses, and it had some other dings and flaws on the left obverse. I still say there was a machine problem in the tray/handler out of the press, or something related to what or who puts them into the plastic holders.
I had several apart to really see what was going on and those plastic holders inside the plastic holders are tricky and maybe the coins are getting damaged putting them in.
I wish I could be an independent quality control person at the Mint for a day to see what really happens.
Yes, you are correct, it is on other quarters. I was concentrating on the Block as it seems to be the worst of them, but I have seen this on several others which still seems like a tray sliding issue or handling machine to put them into sets that got out of adjustment?
I wish someone in San Francisco, would go ask to see the Mint Director in person, and show them the problem and ask them what happened.
Or maybe start one of those flash protests that Facebook does, and have a live protest about the Block quarter inequality, in front of the Mint.
@Goldminers said:
I just think there is a Block Island coin problem in general. I have been trying to find one REGULAR silver Block Island quarter in PCGS PR70, and no luck for months.
Are you saying that the regular silver sets have scratches too? Now I'm going to look a lot closer at the ones I have.
@Goldminers said:
I just think there is a Block Island coin problem in general. I have been trying to find one REGULAR silver Block Island quarter in PCGS PR70, and no luck for months.
Are you saying that the regular silver sets have scratches too? Now I'm going to look a lot closer at the ones I have.
I don't have any to look at, but I know for sure I want to buy a PCGS PR70 FS of the regular Block Island one.
Received my First Strike Nickel today in PR70. Decided to put the set together piece by piece. Going with sellers that offer free shipping to keep the price down. If I can buy in small groups, then I am also looking for that. This set will then be put up with the 4 sets from the Mint. Dime is on the way. Looking to pick up the easy quarters next.
@Tunis said:
Received my First Strike Nickel today in PR70. Decided to put the set together piece by piece. Going with sellers that offer free shipping to keep the price down. If I can buy in small groups, then I am also looking for that. This set will then be put up with the 4 sets from the Mint. Dime is on the way. Looking to pick up the easy quarters next.
Good luck. The cheaper quarters and the dime and nickel are the easy ones. after that, the penny, followed by the half and then the dollar. The block Island will be the toughest. The only single on ebay right now is at $1045 right now with almost 2 days left.... that's going to be the doozy.
2018 S 25C Silver Reverse Proof Block Island Quarter PCGS PR70 First Strike
$1,045.00
39 bids | Ends in 1d 19h
dmwest
Right you are. What a game we're watching here. Almost like the World Series or the Super Bowl or something.
@Bochiman said:
People seem to be ignoring the Registry Sets......
If you want to remain on top, you NEED to be 1st on the block to get the top pop coins. Ties go to the 1st one there, right?
Regardless, if you have 6 people with perfect sets (quarters, whatever) and there are only 4 "perfect" of a particular one out there, bidding will be intense.
If there are MANY out there, not as big of a deal.
To some, money isn't that much of an object, when it comes to staying on top of the registry.
O
Bochiman
Thanks for the explanation. I think I understand the whole Registry drive now. Never really paid it no mind before but it now makes sense to me . Not saying I want to play along but I at least understand the why of it all.
@wondercoin said:
Just 2 bidders above $500. What happens next when one of them has his quarter? Wondercoin
That is always the question. Same thing can happen with classic coins. But I'm not sure this particular set has done moving. Success often breeds success. High prices entice more players.
I don't know what any of these coins will be worth 1 or 5 years out. But i'm pretty sure the fun isn't over
I suspect we'll see a few more dribble out (for instance, from failed deliveries (like no one present to sign or moved with NFA), but if that number holds, less than 1,300 returns makes their new return policy look pretty good...
@BackroadJunkie said:
I suspect we'll see a few more dribble out (for instance, from failed deliveries (like no one present to sign or moved with NFA), but if that number holds, less than 1,300 returns makes their new return policy look pretty good...
More than just that one thing at play. You had 24 hours of HHL. And you also had accelerating prices. You'd have to be a moron to return a creased box after the first 2 weeks
I found 3 more PF70 listings on Ebay for this Reverse Proof Block Island Quarter. Two of the Listing are at a BIN price of $1500 and the other is at a bid of $127.50 with 4 days to go. On all 3 of them there are headings and pictures indicating PF70. But down below for Condition , it says PF69. Not good. Is it a rip attempt?
@FullStrike said:
I found 3 more PF70 listings on Ebay for this Reverse Proof Block Island Quarter. Two of the Listing are at a BIN price of $1500 and the other is at a bid of $127.50 with 4 days to go. On all 3 of them there are headings and pictures indicating PF70. But down below for Condition , it says PF69. Not good. Is it a rip attempt?
No, it just means he checked the wrong box when listing it
@BigA said:
Give it a couple of weeks for those shipped over the last few days to be received and maybe returned
Anyone who returns sets from the last few days should not be allowed near coins. LOL. They can easily flip them at $65 right now, probably $75 when it is officially sold out. Unless it was run over by a truck, of course.
I've got two sets that normally would be returns...one with a flesh wound in George's face and another with a decent 1 1/2 inch mark on the plastic.....probably won't return them
Numbers will change, of course, but I find it interesting that the reverse proof set sales are only about 20,000 less than the regular silver proof set.
Numbers will change, of course, but I find it interesting that the reverse proof set sales are only about 20,000 less than the regular silver proof set.
"only about"??? I'm surprised that the 200,000 people who bought the regular silver sets didn't immediately sell-out the reverse proof sets by buying one of those also.
Comments
The NGC 70s will not cross[ edit to add] in general. Frankly, there 4 PCGS 70s that I saw were marginal.
This IS a rare coin in 70. I don't know about $900 rare, but rare
So who says the one sold for near $900 isn't one of the "marginal" ones?
It may be, but the PCGS ones are definitely to a much higher standard than the NGC. Sure, you might have one of the legit 70s in an NGC holder and I might have one of the "marginal ones" in a PCGS holder. But, the NGC coin will not be worth what the PCGS coin is until you cross it.
I mean, the PCGS 69s might 70 on resubmission, but that won't ever make the 69 market equal to the 70.
There were a few dozen available again this morning. Bought 15 more while waiting for NGC news.
I just think there is a Block Island coin problem in general. I have been trying to find one REGULAR silver Block Island quarter in PCGS PR70, and no luck for months. I am offering $125 for one shipped to me. If interested PM me. Also the Block Island 5 ounce puck will be coming out and I anticipate it will have problems as well with 70's especially in the non-vapor blasted bullion version.
Also, I will add that the reverse silver Block Island NGC PF70's I saw were all scratched on the base of Washington when viewed at a certain angle. As stated above, these are a modern condition rarity in PCGS PR70.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Maybe they used the same machine to mint the regular silver as the reverse proof silver......just a change of the dies...
Don't quote me on that.
I see a number of challenges with the high prices in the block quarter via PCGS 70:
Firstly, I have seen a wide range of quality in the Mercury dimes in PCGS 70 and the Palladium Eagles. If you go to sell it are you going to offer the buyer a return policy because it isn’t “perfect“?
Secondly, what happens to the value of this coin when and if it’s spots?
How long do you intend on holding it to avoid the potential spotting, or is it a quick clip?
In the past, more of the 70s invariably come into the market and drive the price down.
@MilesWaits stated:
My comments are in bold.
I see a number of challenges with the high prices in the block quarter via PCGS 70: So do I as the first several had some unusually strong bidding by about 4-5 people. When they have their coins the price will drop.
Firstly, I have seen a wide range of quality in the Mercury dimes in PCGS 70 and the Palladium Eagles. If you go to sell it are you going to offer the buyer a return policy because it isn’t “perfect“? No, I would not usually accept returns on graded coins. If they don't like it they should send it back to NGC or PCGS for grade guarantee review.
Secondly, what happens to the value of this coin when and if it’s spots? I have a lot of modern silver PCGS PR70 coins and I just have not had much of a spot problem so far, thankfully.
How long do you intend on holding it to avoid the potential spotting, or is it a quick flip? I actually collect them in sets and have for decades, and do not flip very often, as usually I am unsuccessful, LOL.
In the past, more of the 70s invariably come into the market and drive the price down. This is absolutely true for modern coins and the buyer needs to factor that into their price or they will regret it. All very valid questions.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Nope...and it did't cost $800 to start. Why on earth would someone pay that much when I see:
and...
Because they wanted it more than the next guy, and desire is a stronger emotion than money. Think $48 million for an old Ferrari.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
People seem to be ignoring the Registry Sets......
If you want to remain on top, you NEED to be 1st on the block to get the top pop coins. Ties go to the 1st one there, right?
Regardless, if you have 6 people with perfect sets (quarters, whatever) and there are only 4 "perfect" of a particular one out there, bidding will be intense.
If there are MANY out there, not as big of a deal.
To some, money isn't that much of an object, when it comes to staying on top of the registry.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
For sure registry sets are a major demand factor. In the Washington silver basic quarter set of just the modern 1999-date proofs there are 173 sets registered and 24 are top #1 PR70 sets. another 25 or so are very close and several likely working their way from 69's to 70's. So there alone might be demand for about 50 Block reverse PR70's.
But then there are the Washington collectors who have the really amazing classic or complete registry sets with all dates, clads, proofs, varieties, types, etc.. Most all in that level will want one of these in PCGS 70, so until maybe 100 of these are graded they will have some high competitive bids. And some who really care, will pay more for even "better" PCGS PR70's, as there is a variety of quality in all 70's.
And yes there are timing factors for order in the registry.
The following logic is used:
Highest rating NOW
Highest rating EVER
Highest rating ever DATE
As an example:
Set #1 with the highest rating goes to the top slot.
If set #2 ties set #1's rating, then set #1 remains in the top slot regardless of the first or last published date.
If set #2 updates set to beat #1's rating, then #2 will take the top slot.
If set #1 ties #2, #2 remains in the top slot because that set achieves the highest rating first.
Edited to add that the PCGS registry also considers "rarity" in the rating system. so some coins in PR70 get 71 rating points and some get 142 rating points for example. This coin in my opinion is a condition "rarity", even with a fairly high quantity of 200,000 sold and deserves extra points in the ratings if in PR70 vs 69.
Yes, for full disclosure, I have a set that "needed" this "Holy Grail" coin, and I already got one like the Frenchmen in the castle. LOL
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I would love to see an electron microscope of the lines. I wonder if they are flow lines in the die or scratches in the coin.
Are the lines the same length and spread?
Interesting question. Did you see my picture on page 12? It is with a microscope camera, but a cheap one that I do not really know what magnification, but takes OK quick pictures. I have seen many of these 4x, 6x, 10x, 20-40x digital enhanced and they all look like scratches to me and at very different depths, widths, and number. The one I saw that did not really have them and I was really excited as that is where I look first, had a couple dings on the left side that ruined it for me.
Since my queries on die life in this forum indicated about 5,000 to 10,000 proof double struck coins max. I do not see this as an "in the die" issue unless all dies are now made from one damaged "master die" by 3d printing or engraving or something new?
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I was guessing they reused the same obverse die to death.
However
If the scratches vary this much then scratches they are. No need for any further electron examination.
Too bad. Now I wonder if more than 2% are scratched.
All great questions....I wish we had someone who could answer them....
Don't quote me on that.
I was examining mine and found those same scratches along the base of Washington's neck just like Goldminers said. I was using a 10x loupe outside and when the sun hit those scratches, they really lit up. All in various sizes. Then examining the other quarters, I discovered some scratches on some of them as well. It isn't a problem limited just to Block Island quarters. Anybody else see that too?
More than 2% were scratches. In fact, I believe maybe 98%+ were scratched if that was what you meant. LOL
I have seen only one of these in any PR or PF70 holders or in sets that did not have visible scratches under 5X mag like PCGS uses, and it had some other dings and flaws on the left obverse. I still say there was a machine problem in the tray/handler out of the press, or something related to what or who puts them into the plastic holders.
I had several apart to really see what was going on and those plastic holders inside the plastic holders are tricky and maybe the coins are getting damaged putting them in.
I wish I could be an independent quality control person at the Mint for a day to see what really happens.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
@Onastone
Yes, you are correct, it is on other quarters. I was concentrating on the Block as it seems to be the worst of them, but I have seen this on several others which still seems like a tray sliding issue or handling machine to put them into sets that got out of adjustment?
I wish someone in San Francisco, would go ask to see the Mint Director in person, and show them the problem and ask them what happened.
Or maybe start one of those flash protests that Facebook does, and have a live protest about the Block quarter inequality, in front of the Mint.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Are you saying that the regular silver sets have scratches too? Now I'm going to look a lot closer at the ones I have.
I don't have any to look at, but I know for sure I want to buy a PCGS PR70 FS of the regular Block Island one.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Received my First Strike Nickel today in PR70. Decided to put the set together piece by piece. Going with sellers that offer free shipping to keep the price down. If I can buy in small groups, then I am also looking for that. This set will then be put up with the 4 sets from the Mint. Dime is on the way. Looking to pick up the easy quarters next.
Successful buys on BST board from NotSure, Nankraut, Yorkshireman, Astrorat, Ikeigwin(2x), Bob13, Outhaul, coinbuf, dpvilla, jayPem, Sean1990, TwoKopeiki, bidask, Downtown1974, drddm, nederveit2
Good luck. The cheaper quarters and the dime and nickel are the easy ones. after that, the penny, followed by the half and then the dollar. The block Island will be the toughest. The only single on ebay right now is at $1045 right now with almost 2 days left.... that's going to be the doozy.
Don't quote me on that.
2018 S 25C Silver Reverse Proof Block Island Quarter PCGS PR70 First Strike
$1,045.00
39 bids | Ends in 1d 19h
dmwest
Right you are. What a game we're watching here. Almost like the World Series or the Super Bowl or something.
O
Bochiman
Thanks for the explanation. I think I understand the whole Registry drive now. Never really paid it no mind before but it now makes sense to me . Not saying I want to play along but I at least understand the why of it all.
Block Island (yes I know, in ROUGH shape) with Washington spitting his chaw...
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
Just 2 bidders above $500. What happens next when one of them has his quarter? Wondercoin
They finish their set?
Don't quote me on that.
That is always the question. Same thing can happen with classic coins. But I'm not sure this particular set has done moving. Success often breeds success. High prices entice more players.
I don't know what any of these coins will be worth 1 or 5 years out. But i'm pretty sure the fun isn't over
This morning I tried to get a set and there was 1 available...I wasn't fast enough before it was gone.
Don't quote me on that.
New numbers 198,745
Special Collectibles 18XC 2018 SF SILVER REVERSE PROOF SET 198748 08/26/2018
Don't quote me on that.
Guess they subtracted the trash....
I suspect we'll see a few more dribble out (for instance, from failed deliveries (like no one present to sign or moved with NFA), but if that number holds, less than 1,300 returns makes their new return policy look pretty good...
More than just that one thing at play. You had 24 hours of HHL. And you also had accelerating prices. You'd have to be a moron to return a creased box after the first 2 weeks
By the way, I got my SECOND double set of quarters. Has anyone gotten a double set of the other coins?
You will probably see these sets get north of $75 soon.
a lot of the work done on the assembly line is done with robots, looks like they need some tweaking
Got my PF 70 Dime in today but not the last 3 sets I ordered from the Mint. Maybe tomorrow. Now to start picking up the quarters
Successful buys on BST board from NotSure, Nankraut, Yorkshireman, Astrorat, Ikeigwin(2x), Bob13, Outhaul, coinbuf, dpvilla, jayPem, Sean1990, TwoKopeiki, bidask, Downtown1974, drddm, nederveit2
Show us a picture and keep sellin make the money! I dont have the time nor stamina to do what you do.
I found 3 more PF70 listings on Ebay for this Reverse Proof Block Island Quarter. Two of the Listing are at a BIN price of $1500 and the other is at a bid of $127.50 with 4 days to go. On all 3 of them there are headings and pictures indicating PF70. But down below for Condition , it says PF69. Not good. Is it a rip attempt?
No, it just means he checked the wrong box when listing it
Didn't see any for sale at the Mint this AM
Me neither. Probably nearing official sell out.
Give it a couple of weeks for those shipped over the last few days to be received and maybe returned
Anyone who returns sets from the last few days should not be allowed near coins. LOL. They can easily flip them at $65 right now, probably $75 when it is officially sold out. Unless it was run over by a truck, of course.
The Mint also claims to not re-sell returned sets. It would only be cancellations that re-enter the stream.
I've got two sets that normally would be returns...one with a flesh wound in George's face and another with a decent 1 1/2 inch mark on the plastic.....probably won't return them
Numbers will change, of course, but I find it interesting that the reverse proof set sales are only about 20,000 less than the regular silver proof set.
"only about"??? I'm surprised that the 200,000 people who bought the regular silver sets didn't immediately sell-out the reverse proof sets by buying one of those also.