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example of cac gradflation?

KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited September 30, 2017 7:04PM in U.S. Coin Forum

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    joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭✭✭

    so this coin used to be stickered as an ms62?

    may the fonz be with you...always...
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    TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you're saying that coin doesn't deserve a CAC sticker.....I don't know if any of us know what their criteria is/was/will be!!

    Obviously reeding marks are acceptable on an MS coin. That's been the case for a long time, (if not forever). So you would assume that CAC accepts them on an MS coin as well. So, it's just a matter of "at what grade would those marks on that coin" be an acceptable grade? Then "at what grade would those marks on that coin would it be a SUPERIOR coin?"

    I'm sure two sane people could disagree....some wouldn't want those marks at ANY grade. Which is why CAC doesn't solve all possible grading/quality issues! (I think that's more than an opinion...it's a fact. Deal with it. :) )

    Easily distracted Type Collector
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    KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2017 1:04PM

    ahhh...you don't see the stratch near the chin to the cheek?

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    KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2017 1:19PM

    I wonder if mine will cac too

    the tiny lines are on the holder.

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    TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @KollectorKing said:
    ahhh...you don't see the stratch near the chin to the cheek?

    Actually, no. It's not that evident on the smaller picture.

    Having looked at it again....I think my "analysis", (chatter, blather), still holds. At some grade, those marks are acceptable....and at some grade, that coin is even a "superior" coin.

    CAC makes their assessment....but none of us are required to agree. Therefore, relying ONLY on CAC is a bad idea.

    (As for me, my advice to a potential buyer is: I'm sure there are better MS-63's out there....keep looking, or make sure you get a good discount...which this bidder doesn't appear to have gotten.)

    Easily distracted Type Collector
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,552 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gack!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    He looks like he has a goiter.

    Frank

    BHNC #203

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    lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Treashunt said:
    He looks like he has a goiter.

    LOL. Worse...he's a she.
    Lance.

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    clarkbar04clarkbar04 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like a 63 to me.

    MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.
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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The reverse looks like a 64, but the cheek appears to show significant rub (in addition to the other marks). The 'goiters' are relatively common on the 07 and 08 Barber halves, so that is not an issue. But the experts have spoken, and it brought pretty much full boat at auction, so it must be a 63....

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2017 2:54PM

    @CaptHenway said:
    Gack!

    Gack, gack !

    The company's web site says:

    "A LITTLE STICKER MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE.

    Within each number of the coin grading scale is a small range of condition from low-end to high-end. Certified coins of the same grade can be of varying quality. Many of today’s collectors want coins that are solid or premium quality for their assigned grade. CAC holds coins to a higher standard so you can be confident in the value of yours. We verify previously graded coins … and award our sticker only to those coins that meet the standard for today’s selective buyer.

    WHAT THE CAC STICKER MEANS:

    • Verified. Your coin has been verified as meeting the standard for strict quality within its grade.

    • Guaranteed. CAC stands behind our verification by making markets in most actively traded coins."

    This is all very nice, but I see no definition of "the standard." Notice also that they "verify previously graded coins" which is not the same as grading from original submission.

    Just wondering what all this means....

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    But da bean, boss.... DA BEAN !!

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    Gack!

    I had to look that one up in the "Urban Dictionary." How did you know that ? B)

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Gack" goes back to at least the time of Bill the Cat, and likely is much older. I recall using it to imitate the sound of us kids throwing up or gagging on brussels sprouts.

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    ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2017 3:40PM

    @RogerB said:
    "Gack" goes back to at least the time of Bill the Cat, and likely is much older. I recall using it to imitate the sound of us kids throwing up or gagging on brussels sprouts.

    @MrEureka has an Opus tattoo (pre-rhinoplasty) B)
    OK, a T-shirt :p

    IIRC, Bill the Cat spelled it "G-a-a-a-ack".
    The ululation takes practice. Less exhale than yodeling. More glottal :# Huh? :D
    Maybe a T-shirt with Bill enunciating and a half-opened small blue box? :*:'(:*
    Half-kidding, Don o:)>:)o:)

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If raw that would go in an album reverse up.

    It's got dip residue turning on it too.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,061 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow. This almost makes the ugly 1901-S PCGS MS62 Barber Quarter discussed in the thread earlier in the month look wholesome for the grade.

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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,061 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @joebb21 said:
    so this coin used to be stickered as an ms62?

    I think he is saying that the coin does not look like a wholesome MS63. If I submitted something like that, it would come back in an UNC details - scratched, damaged holder.

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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a wholesome MS63 in a Accugrade or SEGS holder ;)

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I must not understand the OP or others and am missing something. I call this coin ms63 obverse ms64+/ms65 reverse.

    Why is it not a cac worthy ms63? The reed marks and slider marks are why its an ms63 and not ms64. WAY too clean fields and full booming luster to be ms62

    may the fonz be with you...always...
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    specialistspecialist Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    no one should be grading a coin via an image-especially an image that shows issues. sometimes images show more then there really are. bet this coin looks better in person

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    KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    so that slug look on the coin is from a dip solution, not natural toning Gack

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,061 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2017 6:35PM

    @joebb21 said:
    I must not understand the OP or others and am missing something. I call this coin ms63 obverse ms64+/ms65 reverse.

    Why is it not a cac worthy ms63? The reed marks and slider marks are why its an ms63 and not ms64. WAY too clean fields and full booming luster to be ms62

    Slide mark? It looks more like a scratch. This is one of the things I don't get about CAC. I have seen far too many scratched coins or coins with significant surface disturbances. Are scratches less offensive than a couple of inoffensive toned over hairlines or even a few minor bag marks? I have seen CAC reject coins for those, but scratches or other significant marks are given a free pass?

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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,061 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @specialist said:
    no one should be grading a coin via an image-especially an image that shows issues. sometimes images show more then there really are. bet this coin looks better in person

    No one should be speculating on the presence or absence of foil stickers. I respect CAC a lot, but no one is perfect.

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    KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2017 7:14PM

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @joebb21 said:
    I must not understand the OP or others and am missing something. I call this coin ms63 obverse ms64+/ms65 reverse.

    Why is it not a cac worthy ms63? The reed marks and slider marks are why its an ms63 and not ms64. WAY too clean fields and full booming luster to be ms62

    Slide mark? It looks more like a scratch. This is one of the things I don't get about CAC. I have seen far too many scratched coins or coins with significant surface disturbances. Are scratches less offensive than a couple of inoffensive toned over hairlines or even a few minor bag marks? I have seen CAC reject coins for those, but scratches or other significant marks are given a free pass?

    I absolutely cannot believe that others cannot or will not see the large scratch on this coin:


    Why can't you accept the fact that cac blew it in stickering this coin?

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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,061 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Broadstruck said:
    It's a wholesome MS63 in a Accugrade or SEGS holder ;)

    Suddenly their grading style is becoming more mainstream.

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    Sandman70gtSandman70gt Posts: 979 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Loved Bill the cat
    Had forgot all about him.

    As for the half, bummer of a scratch, not a 800 dollar coin for me.
    Another buy the coin and not the holder,
    And in this case dont buy the sticker.

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    BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think that the 1907 Barber Half could have the reed mark on Ms. Liberty's cheek bone and still be an MS-63. It might even get away with the marks on the jaw and make the grade, but it can't have both. To me the coin is an MS-62.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Since full explanation has not been given, I 'assume' that the disagreement is first with the grade, and secondly, that CAC agreed - thus, by giving their blessing, they are accepting (gradeflation) what is perceived to be an inferior coin. If that is the case, then I disagree... That is not to say I would disagree with gradeflation in general. Cheers, RickO

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