Old timers - how did you as a dealer/collector deal with the US gold ban?

We all know gold bullion ownership was outlawed from '33 to '74. How were you able to acquire gold for inventory or for your collection? I know collectors had to be buying gold coins during that time. How did you navigate the "numismatics exemption" clause of the ban? Was there any 'enforcer' out there you had to watch out for?

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  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 23,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Treasury ruled that any gold coin, foreign or US, dated 1933 and before was "rare" and therefore collectible. The 1933 double eagle was the exception, but it was assumed that none were available. You had to get permission from the Treasury to collect anything that was dated later. I didn't know anyone who did that.

    A lot of collectors wanted the 1967 Canadian 100th anniversary $20 gold piece, but it was not legal to own it. "Coins" magazine sent a reporter and photographer across the border to bring back pictures of the coin for the cover of the magazine.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals.
  • Do you know what year the Treasury ruled that? Is there a document online? Couldn't find one.

  • @92vette said:
    Do you know what year the Treasury ruled that? Is there a document online? Couldn't find one.

    was in the original order 6102 language
    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=14611

    "Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve Bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:

    (a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.

    (b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100 belonging to any one person;_ and gold coins having a recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins_."

    it doesn't specifically say "gold minted before 1933" but a clause for collectors existing so loosely to begin with would have been enough to avoid any sort of seizures or inspections I would think

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 3,053 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is an interesting topic, thanks for posting :smile:

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN,

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  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 23,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @92vette said:
    Do you know what year the Treasury ruled that? Is there a document online? Couldn't find one.

    I think it was 1954, but I read that in a coin magazine back in the 1960s.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 23,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I found a site that confirms what post previously about 1954, but I am on an lPad and can't create a link. The site is "USA (star) Gold."

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals.
  • tommy44tommy44 Posts: 368 ✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    A lot of collectors wanted the 1967 Canadian 100th anniversary $20 gold piece, but it was not legal to own it. "Coins" magazine sent a reporter and photographer across the border to bring back pictures of the coin for the cover of the magazine.

    I remember going to EXPO67 in Montreal, buying a 67 proof set with the $20 at a coin shop and sweating bullets at the border crossing bringing back to the US.

    I also remember buying Austria 100 Corona restrikes, Krugerrands and Mexico 50 Pesos with no problems from a dealer in Albany, NY.

    it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

  • WillieBoyd2WillieBoyd2 Posts: 3,250 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2017 6:22PM

    I bought this coin via mail order for $50 in 1964 from a Coin World magazine dealer.

    I believe that I sent the dealer a Postal Money Order.

    image
    United States $20 1927

    Coin World magazine had many advertisements then for US and foreign gold coins.

    :)

    http://www.brianrxm.com
    The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
    Coins in Movies and Television
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  • epcjimi1epcjimi1 Posts: 3,491 ✭✭✭

    Not me. My buddy's dad in '74.

    Sat. morning, Menlo Park, CA, walked into Wyatt's father counting / taking inventory of STACKS of Krugers on the table. I'm talking stacks. And stacks and more stacks.

    Wyatt's dad sold his business, house, car, for cash before the change, converted to gold.

    To this day, I wonder what has become of Wyatt, Monica, KZSU radio and what has happened since.

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 159 ✭✭✭

    Ohhhhh.........yes, yes, sirreee we got by alright, yep me and the misses. I remember a walking through the snow 7 miles back in 32 just to vote fer ol mr roosevelt yeah, but it was a worth it. I knows what yer a thinking. I should be deed by now, but I ain't. Now, wat was the question? Ohhh yeah, Nixon, never cared fer Kennedy though. Goal was another thing entirely, well let my ol timing arse take a nap now.

  • @BillJones said:
    The Treasury ruled that any gold coin, foreign or US, dated 1933 and before was "rare" and therefore collectible. The 1933 double eagle was the exception, but it was assumed that none were available. You had to get permission from the Treasury to collect anything that was dated later. I didn't know anyone who did that.

    A lot of collectors wanted the 1967 Canadian 100th anniversary $20 gold piece, but it was not legal to own it. "Coins" magazine sent a reporter and photographer across the border to bring back pictures of the coin for the cover of the magazine.

    Wow! So cool ~ thanks for sharing :smile:

  • 1967, Coin Show, Westchester County NY, piles and piles of US Gold Coins, as many as you wanted, but the $20 Double Eagle was an astronomical $50 or so.

    Did not have $50.

    Red book had prices for them, but a note, somewhat to the effect, that circulated $20 were not collectible due to the high cost ($50 or so) of acquiring a set, when the uncirculated basically were the same price.

    From personal experience, at least in the 1960's and 1970's, there was NO PROBLEM acquiring as many gold coins as your little wallet would support.

    Oddball reference.

    Just before the US Enterprise set sail for Hawaii prior to Pearl Harbor, they had a sailing competition, IIRC, in the SF bay area, various classes of boat and sailing skills. The 1st prize for each event was a $20 gold coin, so even the US Government was still "spending" them. The reference was a documentary of the ship, nothing about coin collecting, etc the passing reference to the gold $20's.

    The "problem" was acquiring bullion i.e, bar type products, or Krugerrand type coins (starting 1967), etc. Anecdotal, the US Submarine Trout evacuated the gold supply and a lot silver pesos from the Philippines, since there was only 2 torpedoes available for resupply and limited fuel,, and the sub needed ballast after dropping off 3500 tons of AA shells. Gold for ballast. The original plan was just to dump it in deep water, but they used it instead for ballast. Anyway, when the sub arrived, the gold was send to the treasury, but 1 bar was unaccounted for. It "appeared" at a later date.

    http://www.homeofheroes.com/footnotes/2007/02February1-fenno.html

    Jewelry: I wound up with a gold 18K bracelet that had been owned by my grandmother's sister. She had been given the bracelet sometime around 1948 - 1952 +/- (too long has passed and anyone who knows has passed). IIRC it was over 2 ounces, massive, pretty plain, even had the receipt from Woodward and Lothrop in Washington DC. It went into the smelter's pot when gold was +$1200.

    There is also a movie, trying to find it, involving a aerial mining bucket, gold smuggling, murder mystery, from the late 1950's or early 1960's. short version is that a gold mine in the southwest was secretly being operated, and the gold flown to Mexico, as the spot price of gold was higher in Mexico than the amount the US Government was paying.

    Again, gold bullion versus coined US gold.

  • If you wanted gold bullion and didn't want to pay the premium for US gold collector coins, British sovereigns, French 20 francs, Mexican 50 Pesos and Austrian restrikes were available at a small premium. The problem with all of these is that they had odd amounts of gold content and this is what paved the way for the success of the first 1 ounce bullion coin in the early 1970s-the Krugerrand. The U.S. response in the late 1970s was the American Arts Gold Medallions which weren't popular due to their medal rather than legal tender status. A few years later (1986) they got it right with the American Eagle program.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip. Ebay listings
  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 5,322 ✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:

    A lot of collectors wanted the 1967 Canadian 100th anniversary $20 gold piece, but it was not legal to own it. "Coins" magazine sent a reporter and photographer across the border to bring back pictures of the coin for the cover of the magazine.

    Of course banning ownership of something just makes it that much more desirable. And enough Americans thought so that there are quite a few of what should be complete sets of the 1967 commemoratives missing the $20 coin.

    In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016
  • drwstr123drwstr123 Posts: 6,761 ✭✭✭

    If bullion was wanted, it was bought in raw 'jewelry' form. Specify 14K, 18K, 22K and the weight desired. I remember people purchasing raw ring mountings as such.

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 3,053 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cameonut
    The more things have changed, the more they seem to stay the same. :smile:
    Loose lips, and joking with the Government are not advised.
    Whether cold war times or war times or supposed peace times, glad you made it back safely :smile:

    PS I think I bought my first coin from a B&M around 1967.

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  • bkzoopapabkzoopapa Posts: 90 ✭✭✭

    In 1962 customs agents confiscated $5000 worth of gold from San Antonio collectors and dealers under the 1933 act even though the agent knew of no other such confiscations before. He claimed that the Mexican gold had come into the country after 1933 so they were illegal even though the owners claimed the foreign exemption applied. The numismatic world of gold imports was under the very heavy thumb of Leland Howard the director of Domestic Gold and Silver Operations in the Treasury Department. To import any "rare" coin you had to fill out a form giving to each coin the date, denomination,country of origin, mint mark and if any condition, as well as the name of the proposed purchase was coming from and the purpose for which the importation is desired. Upon receipt of the information consideration will be given to the issuance of an import license.

  • bkzoopapabkzoopapa Posts: 90 ✭✭✭

    This all came about due to Executive Order#11037 of July 20, 1962 of the Tres Dept Gold Regulations, effective July 23, 1962 that gold coins of any kind may not be held or acquired by Anyone under the jurisdiction of of the US . And any so held out of the country must be sold there by Jan 1, 1963. After that date no other gold coins,whether rare or not may be purchased and imported without a special Treas Dept License from that office. It was noted that licenses would be issued only in exceptional cases that would be decided on merit, and only issued for small quantities of exceptional numismatic value. This all per a letter from Leland Howard to David Shapiro, President of Rarcoa, August 10, 1962

  • WillieBoyd2WillieBoyd2 Posts: 3,250 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2017 4:11AM

    Re: mustangmanbob's question:

    There is also a movie, trying to find it, involving a aerial mining bucket, gold smuggling, murder mystery, from the late 1950's or early 1960's. short version is that a gold mine in the southwest was secretly being operated, and the gold flown to Mexico, as the spot price of gold was higher in Mexico than the amount the US Government was paying.

    The film is "Edge of Eternity", released in 1959, starring Cornel Wilde.

    The film is pretty good and it was filmed on location in Arizona.

    There is some discussion of the US-fixed price of gold of $35 an ounce being too low making gold mines uneconomical to operate.

    :)

    http://www.brianrxm.com
    The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
    Coins in Movies and Television
    The San Francisco 1949 Peso

  • Interesting. So by and large there wasn't much a sense of 'looking over your shoulder' for the G-men back in the day? It would seem enforcement incidents were few and far between.

  • ms71ms71 Posts: 665 ✭✭✭

    In the mid-1960s, I wanted an Elizabeth II gold sovereign. My dad & I sent for the forms, filled them out, and submitted them to (I think it was) the treasury department Office of Domestic Gold & Silver Operations. Word-smithed it up, citing the historical value of the sovereign series etc. etc. Came back "denied".

    Successful BST transactions: Christos,Proofmorgan,Coinlearner,Ahrensdad,Nolawyer


    Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you somethin':
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    My mind reader refuses to charge me....
  • JBKJBK Posts: 649 ✭✭✭✭

    @ms71 said:
    In the mid-1960s, I wanted an Elizabeth II gold sovereign. My dad & I sent for the forms, filled them out, and submitted them to (I think it was) the treasury department Office of Domestic Gold & Silver Operations. Word-smithed it up, citing the historical value of the sovereign series etc. etc. Came back "denied".

    THAT would be a very historical letter to have - an important part of numismatic history. I don't expect it still exists, but I wish it did....

    It is the kind of thing I would have done just to get the denial letter. I had bought 20 one ounce copper Liberty Dollars just before the FBI raided that operation. I had the chance to file a claim and be part of the case to get the govt to return them (most claimants were in for big quantities of silver). I did it just for the experience and amusement, and now a few years later I am soon expecting a package in the mail from the court with my 20 copper Ron Paul "dollars".

  • JBKJBK Posts: 649 ✭✭✭✭

    I was too young to buy gold in those days but I still resented not being allowed to. The big issue for a lot of collectors as was previously mentioned was the 1967 Canadian set. US Collectors were limited to the "no gold" option. The gold $20 coin was forbidden fruit. I don't recall too much else that generated much interest from overseas, other than maybe sovereigns and Krugerrands.

    I did not realize that there was so much circumventing of the law back then. It was probably like the counterfeit situation today. IF the feds caught on to an import operation they might act, but once the contraband gets here they are not very interested. I do know that gold jewelry was still allowed - I would love to hear how jewelers got their raw gold and what sort of paperwork they had to do.

  • WillieBoyd2WillieBoyd2 Posts: 3,250 ✭✭✭✭

    I also wanted an Elizabeth II sovereign in the 1960's because the super-cool James Bond had 50 of them in "From Russia with Love".

    :)

    http://www.brianrxm.com
    The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
    Coins in Movies and Television
    The San Francisco 1949 Peso

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 23,665 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I grew up in Detroit, and starting in 1967 there were always a few of the 1967 Canadian sets with the gold $20 on display in dealers' cases at local coin shows.

    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.--Ben Franklin
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2017 11:35AM

    Double Eagles could be had for around $50 or so and one could just accumulate. I remember buying a super gem BU 1907 $20 Saint in 1969 for around $80. I think it was at least 66 - they did not have numerical grading then. I dont recall a mark on it. I had sold about a dozen 1969-S proof sets for $18.50 each as this was craze then along w the 50-D nickel.

    The shop owner had a binder of a dozen pages of USGTC one could look thru and I picked it from that. Would love buy some FRN from then go back in time...load up.

    In 1974 as ncg sold it for about $275 finance wife engagement ring.

    Crazy how things can swing around. Now folks are crazy about what - stickers? People from then would laugh at that....they did not even have TPG.

    Investor in Modern and Vintage US Coins
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 23,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2017 1:54PM

    Bought my first U.S. $20, a nice BU 1900-S, from Earl Schill in downtown Detroit for $50 in May of 1966. I was 15, and that was a lot of money back then!

    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.--Ben Franklin
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017 12:39AM

    Over several years during the gold ban I was able to purchase four Saudi 4P and 2 Saudi 1P under the table. I still have the four but sold one of the 1P to a friend who would not stop begging.

  • rickoricko Posts: 52,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    While in the Navy, I had the opportunity of buying some gold coins in Europe... did not have the spare cash at the time..... one of the minor things one reflects on in later years.... Cheers, RickO

  • goldengolden Posts: 4,340 ✭✭✭✭

    I remember wanting one of the 1967 Canadian $20's back in the day.

  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭

    The 1933 order specified "gold coins having a recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins." And yet many U.S. gold coins continued to trade for close to melt value after this, as can be seen from auction catalogs. They had no "special value" apart from being historical pieces.

  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 6,303 ✭✭✭

    In 1933, my immigrant grandmother did not trust the Federal government, and hid $75 face value of US gold coins in a safe deposit box. She also stashed away about $60 silver dollars. She thought that if the government was going to confiscate gold, that silver would be next.
    In the early 1960s, Dad took me to the safe deposit box and shared his secret. I jotted down what coins where there and a guess of their conditions (nothing numismatically rare). Didn't mention anything to my brother and sister about it until Dad was on his deathbed. We still have everything. I wouldn't have a problem getting rid of the silver dollars, but to me, the gold coins are family heirlooms.
    These are the only gold coins I own. At the risk of getting flamed, between the extra cost of gold coins because of metallic content, coupled with the fact I do not like any of the designs of U.S. gold coins, I never had an interest on owning any of them. But that's just me. I don't like Morgan $s, either.

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 23,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinosaurus said:
    The 1933 order specified "gold coins having a recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins." And yet many U.S. gold coins continued to trade for close to melt value after this, as can be seen from auction catalogs. They had no "special value" apart from being historical pieces.

    In retrospect it would be best not to "look the gift horse in the mouth." The great thing about the 1954 ruling was that it got the government off the back of gold collectors. As I see it, it would been great to collect your gold coins with no threat of government interference.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals.
  • @Elcontador said:
    In 1933, my immigrant grandmother did not trust the Federal government, and hid $75 face value of US gold coins in a safe deposit box. She also stashed away about $60 silver dollars. She thought that if the government was going to confiscate gold, that silver would be next.
    In the early 1960s, Dad took me to the safe deposit box and shared his secret. I jotted down what coins where there and a guess of their conditions (nothing numismatically rare). Didn't mention anything to my brother and sister about it until Dad was on his deathbed. We still have everything. I wouldn't have a problem getting rid of the silver dollars, but to me, the gold coins are family heirlooms.
    These are the only gold coins I own. At the risk of getting flamed, between the extra cost of gold coins because of metallic content, coupled with the fact I do not like any of the designs of U.S. gold coins, I never had an interest on owning any of them. But that's just me. I don't like Morgan $s, either.

    The gov't permitted each person to hold $100 face value in gold coins. I wonder if that clause might've been a monkey wrench in gov't enforcement potential. Everyone was permitted to hold US gold coin, just not "too much".

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 38,276 ✭✭✭✭

    62 is not an old timer. But I remember the communists were going to take over.

    Practice makes perfect, and nobody is perfect. So practice being nobody, and you will be perfect.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 23,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The clause that allowed each person to save only $100 in gold leaves me wonder how Eliasberg was able to do what he did. Initially he started collecting so that he could still own gold. Then he became a numismatist. I wonder how you were able to cross the line from a "hoarder" who had crossed the $100 threshold to a collector or numismatist who could hold as many gold coins as you liked?

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals.
  • BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 797 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2017 2:02PM

    Don't qualify as an oldtimer, but I would like to add a thought - William H. Woodin, an eminent American Numismatist, was Secretary of the Treasury in 1933. He is usually credited with adding the exemption regarding rare coins to the 1933 Gold Order.

    If I understand it correctly, the $100 face value exemption covered any gold coins, rare or not. The exemption for recognized collectible rare gold coins was a separate exemption.

    In our county seat, there was an old banker who had two coal scuttles (metal pails) full of one dollar gold pieces that had come across his bank's counter in the Depression. The coins were sold in New York City after his death in the late 1960s. Lots of people thumbed their noses at the 1933 Gold Order.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 2,020 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There is a file in NARA containing import applications for gold coins and western bars. Some of the big names of that era were applicants.

    As an individual collector, gold ownership restrictions had no impact, Most modern gold was ugly or reproductions (Mexico). The only real fuss was the 1967 Canadian PL sets with gold $20.

  • BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 797 ✭✭✭✭

    I agree with the statement that few individual collectors were much impacted by the various gold retrictions.

    And well, many people wanted the first Israel gold coin that was the equivalent of the sovereign.

  • DentuckDentuck Posts: 3,701 ✭✭✭

    Dave Bowers has told me that when he was a young numismatist in the 1950s, collectors only rarely brought gold coins in to the local coin club for show-and-tell. There wasn't much scholarship around U.S. gold series back then; it wouldn't really blossom until Akers, Breen, Bowers himself, and others started writing articles and books in the 1960s and 1970s and beyond.

  • BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 797 ✭✭✭✭

    I started at the local coin club about 1970 and the old-timers had a lot of misconceptions about pre-1933 U.S. gold. Many seemed to believe that any gold could still be confiscated at government whim. This kind of thinking didn't ease up until after 1975. These gentlemen weren't big readers or scholars, they passed this "information" by word of mouth.

    Had today's more abundant literature existed back then, most of the old-timers wouldn't have read it and, more to the point, they wouldn't have paid for it.

    I don't believe that too many of the old-timers ever had much gold anyway - all the club/auction/dealer action was in silver, not gold. Silver dollars represented the big action at the 'popular' coin clubs 1965 - 1980.

  • KkathylKkathyl Posts: 479 ✭✭✭

    that's what the 2nd is for. No way they will ever get Gold out of my hand. No way no how. Come and take it!

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 23,665 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I moved to Sidney, O back in December of 1973 and joined the local coin club. There was always a short trading session before each meeting. One time I bought some sovereigns for my mother at melt. They were just bullion.

    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.--Ben Franklin
  • stealerstealer Posts: 3,727 ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017 12:38AM

    @Kkathyl said:
    that's what the 2nd is for. No way they will ever get Gold out of my hand. No way no how. Come and take it!

    I love responses like these. Does anyone really think that an average joe with a peashooter is going to stop a small group of well-trained operators? And are you really willing to give up your life over a pile of metal? What a time to be alive.

    People ask me how I make such great eBay cherrypicks.



    I am Asian.

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  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 3,053 ✭✭✭✭✭
         I did not own any during that time frame :smile: 
    

    I handled it very well :smile:

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN,

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 3,053 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PS
    I am not an oldtimer FYI :smile:

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN,

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stealer said: "I love responses like these. Does anyone really think that an average joe with a peashooter is going to stop a small group of well-trained operators? And are you really willing to give up your life over a pile of metal? What a time to be alive."

    I think the poster is making a point. Although you are Asian, I'll bet you know the purpose for the Second Amendment in our country. We'll leave that out of the discussion.

    As for your post, I should hate to be a well trained "operator" looking over my shoulder all the time while waiting for that head shot from one of the millions of hick sharpshooters that is sure to come. Look what happened in Afghanistan to the Russians. Yeah, yeah the average person in America is not going to have "Stingers." How about America and Vietnam? We got defeated in a guerrilla war.

    My point is this: any normal U.S. citizen person who passes a background check can get just about any of the identical caliber rifles, optics, or handguns the "operators" have. They are not peashooters. They just don't put lead down range as fast.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 2,020 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017 1:25AM

    Once I graduated from College and started working (1960s), I routinely bought US gold coins from Swiss banks. I never had any problems with customs or anything else. The coins were nearly always grubby, as if they had been floating from bank to bank for decades - but the prices were great!

    Having reviewed the Office of Domestic Gold & Silver Operations files, there was evidently only routine interest in importation of US gold coins. Authenticity was the main concern. Many questions were raised about the small "Western gold bars" that kept turning up, however.

  • mustangmanbobmustangmanbob Posts: 861 ✭✭✭

    @stealer said: "I love responses like these. Does anyone really think that an average joe with a peashooter is going to stop a small group of well-trained operators? And are you really willing to give up your life over a pile of metal? What a time to be alive."

    Some forget that the Average Joe with the peashooter is the same Average Joe with virtually the same peashooter that he / she carried in rice paddies or jungles or desert sand, and the "small group of well-trained operators" are likely the Average Joe's kids, so how "dedicated will they be on taking mom or dad's stuff. At this point in time, the US Military is overwhelmingly more in the "right" side of the aisle than the "left" side of the aisle.

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