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Do you trust ICG as a credible TPG? I see our old friend Centsles is selling lots of them on eBay.

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  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 15,310 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @neildrobertson said:
    When it's 0.99 starting bid, the only thing that matters is the accuracy of the photos

    ..........and Centsles's photos are always washed out.

  • basetsbbasetsb Posts: 386 ✭✭✭

    @AmazonX said:
    I trust ICG that the coin is authentic and would probably pay a point or two back what a PCGS one brings unless I really like the coin or think it's properly graded.

    Absolutely this.

    @basetsb_coins on Instagram

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,216 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2017 4:43PM

    It's gonna be hit and miss on those fuzzy photographs. But, it's possible you might get a winner from time to time.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • coinnutcoinnut Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭✭

    I agree with roadrunner on the fuzzy scans. In any event, I always thought he was shill bidding his coins up.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Terrible images...or scans.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_

    aka...Dr. Defecto



    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty,...


    PCGS DANSCO 7070 Modified Set
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset/142105

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,149 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The old dilemma of searching for Neiman Marcus coins at WalMart prices. A bit of risk is not always a bad thing.

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 4,354 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They are seriously using scans?... Apparently it's still 1997 where they are. If any of those coins have nice luster they are going to be leaving a lot on the table.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • SoCalBigMarkSoCalBigMark Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I really liked Dominion grading standards, who were the graders?

  • dpooledpoole Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Last ICG coin I bought was the 2000 Goodacre Sacagawea presentation. I've left bargains on the table, no doubt.

  • ShadyDaveShadyDave Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just purchased an ICG slabbed Irish Shilling for about 50% of what similar coins are going for in NGC/PCGS plastic. I'll pay that all day long if I agree with the grade. It has been cracked out and ready to be shipped off to PCGS.

    Just like any other slabbed coin...they're all on the coin grading spectrum and you need to decide for yourself. Some are right, some are wrong and some can't agree.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 4,978 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not ashamed price them as much as others. They are one of 4 TPG accepted by eBay.

    Been looking for 4 so fill up my 20 coin slab storage box for anacs / ICG.

    Buy / Sell US & World Coins / Currency
  • MacCrimmonMacCrimmon Posts: 7,156 ✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2017 6:52PM

    Back about 2003-4 I bought 8-10 ICG lincolns graded MS67RD from Teletrade. I sent the best 3 to GC to have PCGS give it their best shot. The 52-S, and 53-S came back as MS67 RD, and the 1938-D upgraded to MS67+ RD. Those three hammered for $1150+ on a buy-in of about $50. Of course these were older ICG graded slabs.

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,270 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have had bad luck with them overall. A few were undergraded, but most a grade or so over. The common junk is right, but the nicer coins, forget it.

  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,280 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At least centsles has decided to go with a third party for slabbing...

    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 7/2013- 1983 No-S Proof Set
  • SangoSango Posts: 177 ✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2017 8:27PM

    I've sold a 1999 MS70 ICG ASE for a pretty penny. ;) Real pretty.

    Outside of that, and a little run flipping some ICG 70's, I usually stay away. Nice stuff, just not for me.

  • TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,545 ✭✭✭✭

    I don't see a problem with ICG auctions that start at 99c.
    But his return policy excludes TPG coins:
    WE WILL NOT ACCEPT RETURNS ON ANY PCGS, NGC, ANACS OR ICG GRADED COINS

    I don't think you can win an Item Not As Described case because of the grade?

  • ArizonaRareCoinsArizonaRareCoins Posts: 678 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2017 9:43PM

    How about this one 1799 ICG XF-45.....how did they miss the obvious streak that was removed on the reverse????


  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 41,789 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's a nice coin in the OP link. I would trust ICG on authenticity, but be a little cautious on the grade. The coin has some adjustment marks on the obverse, but those would not necessarily affect the grade, I suppose.

  • rickoricko Posts: 80,061 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have a run of ASE's by ICG that I got in 2002 or 2003.... they are very nice and appear to be graded accurately.... Cheers, RickO

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 8,888 ✭✭✭✭✭

    if you look at some of his past prices realized, they are about right with the actual grade?

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 4,978 ✭✭✭✭✭

    People seem to bid high in his auctions getting determined win them. If u looking pay high on that material go for it.

    Buy / Sell US & World Coins / Currency
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,319 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The so-called market is driven by the collectors and dealers who only want all pcgs or all ngc or all pcgs & ngc slabs in their collections. Nothing really wrong with icg but the are in the minor leagues along with anacs and all the other TPG’s whether you like it or not. Thats the way it is, always was, and always will be.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • hutze1nmhutze1nm Posts: 235 ✭✭✭

    @JeffMTampa said:
    Living in Tampa where ICG is located it was very convenient for me to begin my TPG slabbed coins experience at ICG (2011). They let me come by the shop to ask questions, drop off coins for submissions, and pick them up. I had a LOT of raw coins that didn't straight grade, but fortunately most did. Over a 2 year period I had about a 90% complete set of Barber Halves in ICG holders, VF to AU grades.

    I will be in Tampa (flying in there) and staying in St. Pete on May 20 to the 25th for a beach vacation, any coin shops or shows I should go to within driving distance? Should I go to ICG and drop some stuff off? I have a 9 coin batch that should be done that week before I get there as well that I maybe could pick up.... I just never thought about it. Are they pretty cool with people coming in? Do you need an appointment? I also sell my excess ICG through Ebay.

    I crossed a 1887 MS64PL Morgan recently (cracked out and submitted raw) to PCGS. So I know they are at least in the ballpark recently.

    On a non-coin note... Any ideas for things to do that you don't normally see on the touristy sites? Our theme park day got changed up with a coming addition to the family.

    Things I like to do: Collect PL Morgans. That’s is all.
  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 6,598 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The photos make all of the silver look overdipped. Or maybe they ARE overdipped?

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,457 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @hutze1nm said: "A friend told me he went to Tampa on business, and dropped a dozen coins off at ICG. He told them he was leaving in four days and had the work done in three days for $15 each so they must try harder...LOL.

    One of the ICG graders told his class that in the old days at ANACS they charged $100 just to walk in the door! Now, anyone can make an appointment and drop off coins at ICG.

    @SoCalBigMark said: "I really liked Dominion grading standards, who were the graders?"

    Mike Ellis was there for awhile. He teaches at the ANA Summer Seminars.

  • hutze1nmhutze1nm Posts: 235 ✭✭✭

    @Insider2 Thanks, maybe I will call ahead and ask if that type of service would be available to save on shipping both ways.

    Things I like to do: Collect PL Morgans. That’s is all.
  • logger7logger7 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Centsles has to take returns whether he likes to or not. ICG can be accurate, you can call up grader Skip with the certification number and he will tell you what the grader comments are if any. If you think a coin is over-graded you could send it back in preferably with a long term dealer's comments in letter form that may carry added weight. I have had generally favorable results with them, even some upgrades when they were sent to another service. Strangely the two major usps losses I've suffered in the last few years were on their way to ICG for grading.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 8,026 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TopographicOceans said:
    I don't see a problem with ICG auctions that start at 99c.
    But his return policy excludes TPG coins:
    WE WILL NOT ACCEPT RETURNS ON ANY PCGS, NGC, ANACS OR ICG GRADED COINS

    I don't think you can win an Item Not As Described case because of the grade?

    My bid value would reflect the no return policy and be PCGS value for a grading interval or two behind.

  • bestdaybestday Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭✭

    @neildrobertson said:
    When it's 0.99 starting bid, the only thing that matters is the accuracy of the photos

    Starting bids useless info .. ICGs usually grade less .. say in terms of 2006 Silver Eagle anniv sets ...ICG 70s priced between PGS 69s and 70s

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2017 2:11PM

    @basetsb said:

    @AmazonX said:
    I trust ICG that the coin is authentic and would probably pay a point or two back what a PCGS one brings unless I really like the coin or think it's properly graded.

    Absolutely this.

    +1.......I don't rule anybody out if I need/like the coin.

  • pennyanniepennyannie Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭

    I have had good luck buying from Centseles. I crossed a few at lower grades but the price paid was right.

    Mark
    NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
    working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!

    RIP "BEAR"
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 29,471 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ArizonaRareCoins said:

    How about this one 1799 ICG XF-45.....how did they miss the obvious streak that was removed on the reverse????


    The lefted streak is one of that coin's lesser problems. The whole darn surface as been "lifted." I think that it would get a "details, improperly cleaned label" if someone tried to cross it.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible.
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,457 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2017 1:18PM

    @ArizonaRareCoins said: "How about this one 1799 ICG XF-45.....how did they miss the obvious streak that was removed on the reverse????"

    That is obvious corrosion on the reverse. Looks to me that an AU dollar was net graded to XF. I prefer it when coins are graded correctly and "detailed" if there is a problem.

    @lkeigwin said: "I love ICG and the depressed prices for their coins. I also like their graders who actually take the time to talk to customers."

    I don't think ICG graders are as busy as those working at PCGS or NGC...LOL.
    BTW, I've NEVER gotten to speak with anyone of importance at PCGS during working hours. I have been able (on a few occasions) to get through the customer service "wall" and talk with graders at all the other services including CAC and have been very pleased with the way I was treated.

    Question. Did you send the coins to PCGS while still in ICG slabs? I recommend anyone trying to cross coins from SEGS, ANACS, or ICG crack the coins out so they get a fair "look." I feel that PCGS and NGC would be crazy to cross second or third tier service coins at the same grade. That would be an admission that the grading is virtually identical; yet the cost, customer service, and speed of return is a better deal elsewhere.

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 9,685 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do I trust them? No, but the list of things I actually trust is pretty small. I don't have an intuitive sense of what their grade guarantee means (if they even have one) so I usually don't look at coins in their holders.

    However, if there was a coin in that holder that interested me, I'd probably look at it and make up my own mind. There are dogs and sweethearts in every holder.

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:
    Do I trust them? No, but the list of things I actually trust is pretty small. I don't have an intuitive sense of what their grade guarantee means (if they even have one) so I usually don't look at coins in their holders.

    However, if there was a coin in that holder that interested me, I'd probably look at it and make up my own mind. There are dogs and sweethearts in every holder.

    I totally agree.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would be concerned that since ebay shut down Centsles/NNC from showing their fantasy grades, that ICG might be inclined to give them better or straight grades if they are making real money with their submissions. Since ebay requires 30 day returns on all coins to my knowledge, that leaves plenty of time for an attempted crossover and then return should the coin turn out a lemon.

  • au58au58 Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭

    Back in the day, ICG was as good as any for CC Dollars. I re-holdered 6 ICG CC Dollars with our host. Two went up one point (both 63 to 64). Four were the same.

  • ldhairldhair Posts: 6,734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm good with any brand of holder. It's not important. What's in the holder and the price is all I care about. When I go to sell is when I look at cracking it out and sending it to PCGS or NGC.

    Larry

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,457 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @au58 said: "Back in the day, ICG was as good as any for CC Dollars. I re-holdered 6 ICG CC Dollars with our host. Two went up one point (both 63 to 64). Four were the same."

    IMO, this may not be a good example and says nothing about how ICG grades. The reason is this. I take "Back in the day" to mean the dollars were slabbed a while back - perhaps even a decade or more. Grading standards have become much more liberal. Old slabs that were correctly graded AT ALL THE TPGS's at one time, now often jump a grade.

    At the grading seminar in Jacksonville this past weekend we examined NGC and PCGS coins in holders that were over ten years old (grades covered). Going over the answers with the instructor we found almost a dozen cases where the grade on the label was too low by today's standards! The instructor has PR-64 and 65 Franklins graded in the 1980's that are now easily 66's and 67's! He will not resubmit them as it is an important lesson/proof about "gradeflation."

  • nk1nknk1nk Posts: 393 ✭✭✭

    I've found some very nice coins in ICG holders over the years. One observation I've noticed is they often give a point bump for attractive toning. I bought this coin and had it crossed to NGC where it graded MS64*

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,457 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think we all know that attractive toning can bump a grade. However, IMO, that coin was over graded as a '65 due to the soft strike. I have noticed that all the TPGS are becoming a little more liberal with the sharpness of strike to rate a '65 grade. NGC got it right. I think PCGS would assign the same grade.

  • uscoinguyuscoinguy Posts: 138 ✭✭✭

    Regarding the OP's original question. I have an example of an ICG coin bought about 3 months from Centsles. I had an NGC submission ready to drop off at the CS show so I thought I would throw this ICG coin in to test their grading and to get another opinion on the coin. I cracked out an ICG MS65 1932 Washington Quarter that I paid MS63 money for. I thought it would come back as MS64. Turns out the market graded it for me- it came back as NGC MS63. I realize this is only one example but it does make me a little suspicious about what kind of deal ICG made with that dealer.

    Always trying to learn more
  • seatedlib3991seatedlib3991 Posts: 58 ✭✭✭

    I avoid buying ICG coins because I am not much at cracking coins out. However, I do have about 6 ICG holdered coins in my collection because they were such a bargain and the coins are excellent. I wish the other grading services would adopt a holder such as theirs. It protects the coin from toning or changing after being slabbed. Seriously, PCGS AND NGC can't crack that riddle, but ICG can?

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