LOL...That's why each time the different TPGS's are brought up in a grading seminar the "great" long-time, instructors shut the topic down. There are excellent coins in each of the top four grading service slabs. I'll go so far to say I have seen excellent coins in one other's too.
If you need a "crutch" and you wish to pay more for a particular TPGS slab because down the line someone who cannot grade for themselves and also needs a crutch will pay more for it - fine. SEGS, ICG, and to a lesser extent ANACS seem to be doing OK in spite of all the negativity directed at them. Knowledgeable collectors/dealers (I call them the "sharks-of-the-midway" - many here know their names) ignore the slab or the label. They talk down the brand-X holders and deprive "suckers" from the gem coins they once owned! I love it - as knowledge is power. I wish I had their skills.
Furthermore, IMO, members here should not be implying that ANY of the TPGS's gives special grading to a telemarketer or Ebay seller. The only reason I can think of for a 65 to drop to a 63 is a patch of hairlines that was missed. Any collector WHO KNOWS HOW TO GRADE would have noticed the quarter was over graded and would have sold it in the ICG slab or cracked to out and sold it "raw" to another blind collector rather than trying for a cross. PERIOD.
PS I know one of the "bottom feeding" TPGS often puts a note why a competitors slab did not cross. It is very educational.
Trust isn't the right word for ICG, among friends I have a different meaning of I.C.G. but that's for another time. Anyhow, I trust my grading ability and if I find an ICG coin that looks reasonable I'd buy it accordingly and in this market, it most likely would be discounted so more power to those of us who can grade for ourselves and not rely on plastic. ANACS falls into the same boat.
I've seen good coins in ICG slabs and, from the experience posted, it seems like a number of them upgrade when crossing. When buying, I think there are opportunities in ICG slabs for the astute collector but you really need to look at the coin. When selling/slabbing, I think it depends on cost. Some TPGs are more expensive and some are less expensive depending on the coin so that is a consideration relative to coin value.
I have the most PCGS slabs but occasionally and just picked up another ICG coin (which may get crossed eventually).
When ICG was still located in Colorado, their grades were equal or close to that of PCGS. I had several 1928 Peace $ MS64's that crossed (same grade) & one "S" that did not. I trust their early graded coins more than the ones now graded in FL.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
At least centsles has decided to go with a third party for slabbing...
This is a big upgrade for centsles compared to his self slabbing NNC holders.
I once sold him a XF details graded, cleaned, rare date gold dollar, that I later found him selling in an straight grade AU58 NNC slab.
@Insider2 said:
LOL...That's why each time the different TPGS's are brought up in a grading seminar the "great" long-time, instructors shut the topic down. There are excellent coins in each of the top four grading service slabs. I'll go so far to say I have seen excellent coins in one other's too.
If you need a "crutch" and you wish to pay more for a particular TPGS slab because down the line someone who cannot grade for themselves and also needs a crutch will pay more for it - fine. SEGS, ICG, and to a lesser extent ANACS seem to be doing OK in spite of all the negativity directed at them. Knowledgeable collectors/dealers (I call them the "sharks-of-the-midway" - many here know their names) ignore the slab or the label. They talk down the brand-X holders and deprive "suckers" from the gem coins they once owned! I love it - as knowledge is power. I wish I had their skills.
Furthermore, IMO, members here should not be implying that ANY of the TPGS's gives special grading to a telemarketer or Ebay seller. The only reason I can think of for a 65 to drop to a 63 is a patch of hairlines that was missed. Any collector WHO KNOWS HOW TO GRADE would have noticed the quarter was over graded and would have sold it in the ICG slab or cracked to out and sold it "raw" to another blind collector rather than trying for a cross. PERIOD.
PS I know one of the "bottom feeding" TPGS often puts a note why a competitors slab did not cross. It is very educational.
**When the coin comes back I will definitely take Insider2's advice and see what I missed. I thought I looked at it pretty closely. I guess I missed the same thing that ICG missed. But then nobody pays me to grade coins.
It is good to get advice from someone who is a perfect grader. It must be nice to have every coin that one sends in for grading come back with the exact same grade that one graded it.**
@uscoinguy said: "When the coin comes back I will definitely take Insider2's advice and see what I missed. I thought I looked at it pretty closely. I guess I missed the same thing that ICG missed. But then nobody pays me to grade coins."
All TPGS miss "things" or "let the things they didn't miss slide" for assorted reasons. For example, exceptional eye appeal can trump lots of "things" that were NOT missed. When you get the coin back, tip it up 45 degrees and slowly rotate it under a 75W - 100W incandescent light. If I was correct, you'll either see an unnatural color with continuous hairlines or more likely to see bright flash from a wheel mark patch.
@uscoinguy continued: "It is good to get advice from someone who is a perfect grader. It must be nice to have every coin that one sends in for grading come back with the exact same grade that one graded it."
There is no such thing as a perfect grader. Someone will always disagree - even with those who probably come close to perfection. I can think of five right away who own big companies that either grade coins or auction them. Then you can add many of the long-time numismatists who work for them. Nevertheless, none of these guys is infallible. They can miss "things" and ignore "things" with the best of us.
While I think grading services are a good addition to our hobby/business, I don't use them and do not need them. Actually, I do use/need ICG to slab some of the counterfeits I collect.
Advice is free. I don't believe any advice I receive (about virtually anything) until I test it as I judge where it came from. In an authentication seminar back in 1974, the instructor told his class that the certification service dropped over 60% of the professional dealer consultants they had used previously for authentication opinions! Think about that when reading authentication or grading opinions on coin forums.
@Insider2 said:
LOL...That's why each time the different TPGS's are brought up in a grading seminar the "great" long-time, instructors shut the topic down. There are excellent coins in each of the top four grading service slabs. I'll go so far to say I have seen excellent coins in one other's too.
If you need a "crutch" and you wish to pay more for a particular TPGS slab because down the line someone who cannot grade for themselves and also needs a crutch will pay more for it - fine. SEGS, ICG, and to a lesser extent ANACS seem to be doing OK in spite of all the negativity directed at them. Knowledgeable collectors/dealers (I call them the "sharks-of-the-midway" - many here know their names) ignore the slab or the label. They talk down the brand-X holders and deprive "suckers" from the gem coins they once owned! I love it - as knowledge is power. I wish I had their skills.
Furthermore, IMO, members here should not be implying that ANY of the TPGS's gives special grading to a telemarketer or Ebay seller. The only reason I can think of for a 65 to drop to a 63 is a patch of hairlines that was missed. Any collector WHO KNOWS HOW TO GRADE would have noticed the quarter was over graded and would have sold it in the ICG slab or cracked to out and sold it "raw" to another blind collector rather than trying for a cross. PERIOD.
PS I know one of the "bottom feeding" TPGS often puts a note why a competitors slab did not cross. It is very educational.
That all shows some variability but grading services have been missing things for quite a while, even cac misses things once in a great while. "Knowing how to grade" can be subjective with certain coins on the line. But if the trend is for services to time after time like NNC show an upward or blind bias toward profit then something not right is going on, and he was lucky to not get nailed in lawsuits.
I don't want to attract anyone to attack me but I really don't think ICG would really compromise their integrity like that. Randy and Skip seem like stand up guys to me.
Things I like to do: Collect PL Morgans. That’s is all.
@hutze1nm said:
I don't want to attract anyone to attack me but I really don't think ICG would really compromise their integrity like that. Randy and Skip seem like stand up guys to me.
Why would someone attack you for expressing an honest opinion?
@hutze1nm said:
I don't want to attract anyone to attack me but I really don't think ICG would really compromise their integrity like that. Randy and Skip seem like stand up guys to me.
Why would someone attack you for expressing an honest opinion?
Things I like to do: Collect PL Morgans. That’s is all.
ICG coins are pretty safe up to $200 or so; as you climb up the grading and price scale risks may raise some issues. The problem comes with guarantees down the road, first authenticity, which are not an issue with the four main services, then accurate grading, which is usually close with dollars. Pre-1850 coins require real scrutiny especially with the money grades. You could do a scientific report which would involve rotating a large statistically significant sampling of coins through P/N/A/I and maybe cac as well. It would cost a lot of time and money but would be a good service to the hobby.
Ebay cracked down on him last year and forced him to block out the number graded on his self slabs. Now it seems he's changing business models and submitting to the tpg who will give him the best grades he can still show on eBay.
I have had a few upgrades, it totally depends on the coin. Personally I preferred the old ICG holders, though the new ones look better to me than Anacs, though their old small holders were good, "less is more".
@coinnut said:
I agree with roadrunner on the fuzzy scans. In any event, I always thought he was shill bidding his coins up.
I sure hope this is not the case - bought too many coins from him.
@logger7 said:
I would be concerned that since ebay shut down Centsles/NNC from showing their fantasy grades, that ICG might be inclined to give them better or straight grades if they are making real money with their submissions. Since ebay requires 30 day returns on all coins to my knowledge, that leaves plenty of time for an attempted crossover and then return should the coin turn out a lemon.
They changed their rules; only PCGS, NGC, Anacs and Icg certified coins can be listed with numerical grades. NNC was thus unable to feature their "graded" coins.
@TopographicOceans said:
I don't see a problem with ICG auctions that start at 99c.
But his return policy excludes TPG coins: WE WILL NOT ACCEPT RETURNS ON ANY PCGS, NGC, ANACS OR ICG GRADED COINS
I don't think you can win an Item Not As Described case because of the grade?
I don't think that language immunizes him from a SNAD claim. If all else fails, pay with a credit card, eat the postage yourself to mail it back and do a chargeback if the coin truly is not as described.
When he was selling his NNC coins he had to take the returns within a reasonable ebay directed period of time. All ebay sellers have to take the returns, of course he will block the buyer, say "a deal is a deal" but not without proper disclosure. If you had to keep the expensive coin your only recourse is a guarantee submission which can be very difficult. If I was "forced" to keep an expensive coin with problems I would get a professional letter or two, first bring it up with the grading service then go over their heads if they reject a reasonable claim.
What did change more recently is that slightly more occasionally eBay does take down listings that violate policy, but it's pretty rare.
2007
The previous coins policy had allowed coins to be listed with a numerical grade for five different authorized grading companies: Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC), Numismatic Conservation Services (NCS), Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS), Independent Coin Graders (ICG), American Numismatic Association Certification Service (ANACS).
2012
Under the updated policy, currently only PCGS and NGC meet the standards required to list coins with numerical grades. Other grading companies that meet the standards may contact eBay.
A second update to the coins listing policy applies to only U.S. coins and requires that all coins listed with a Buy It Now, reserve, or start price of $2,500 and above must be graded by companies meeting the new objective standards.
The new requirements will apply to all new listings and relistings in coin categories starting May 30, 2012. Good ‘Til Cancelled listings will have until June 30, 2012 to comply with the revised policy.
After a lot of whoop-de-woop, ANACS and ICG met the new rules, so eBay basically went back to 2007 with a (new) requirement that coins listed at $2500+ were certified from the 4.
Whether you like them or not, SEGS would _seem _to meet the published policy, but has never been added...
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
The new rules also apply to certified paper money that can only be certified by the two main companies. Over a certain price level there should be requirements for stronger certification and grading rules. I have seen a fair number of Anacs certified coins that looked optimistically graded, an 1890-s $20 graded MS63 for example that was no better than MS62. The dealer wanted Greysheet money which more and more is a premium number of cac certified coins. Caveat emptor.
What did change more recently is that slightly more occasionally eBay does take down listings that violate policy, but it's pretty rare.
2007
The previous coins policy had allowed coins to be listed with a numerical grade for five different authorized grading companies: Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC), Numismatic Conservation Services (NCS), Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS), Independent Coin Graders (ICG), American Numismatic Association Certification Service (ANACS).
2012
Under the updated policy, currently only PCGS and NGC meet the standards required to list coins with numerical grades. Other grading companies that meet the standards may contact eBay.
A second update to the coins listing policy applies to only U.S. coins and requires that all coins listed with a Buy It Now, reserve, or start price of $2,500 and above must be graded by companies meeting the new objective standards.
The new requirements will apply to all new listings and relistings in coin categories starting May 30, 2012. Good ‘Til Cancelled listings will have until June 30, 2012 to comply with the revised policy.
After a lot of whoop-de-woop, ANACS and ICG met the new rules, so eBay basically went back to 2007 with a (new) requirement that coins listed at $2500+ were certified from the 4.
Whether you like them or not, SEGS would _seem _to meet the published policy, but has never been added...
You need to try a newly graded coin. There was a big kerfuffle about SEGS' guarantee not applying to prior ownership back a couple years and I vaguely remember somebody saying they had purged the database.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
If that is the case then that automatically disqualifies SEGS from ebay. ANACS biggest problem qualifying was working out a system to lookup the older slabs in their database.
@BStrauss3 said:
You need to try a newly graded coin. There was a big kerfuffle about SEGS' guarantee not applying to prior ownership back a couple years and I vaguely remember somebody saying they had purged the database.
Coins that were certified by ANACS under previous ownership will be reholdered in ANACS’ blue label. Coins that were certified since January 1, 2008, when ANACS began its new ownership, will be reholdered using ANACS’ gold label.
SEGS changed ownership structure in the last couple years and there was a big thread on one of the boards about not guaranteeing coins holdered under the prior ownership. Google for it, but read it for the nuances, it was not as simple as initially presented...
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I know of several cases when a TPGS offered a certain # of free submissions to satisfy a guarantee. I also know of similar coins returned as a replacement to satisfy the guarantee.
I've possibly cracked out more coins than most posters here although not close to the guys who do it at the TPGS. Most of the time I used a hammer although the vice and nippers were available. I've never broken a hammer. Only twice has a coin completely separated from the case and plastic insert (no damage visible using high magnification). I believe the correct method is to have the edge of the slab perpendicular to a hard surface.
I agree, the market dictates PCGS / NGC. Furthermore, many here have argued that the market dictates PCGS only.
When the dealer said ICG slabs were like "raw" coins he may have just tried to "push" the idea that NGC and PCGS dictate the market rather than being a crook.
I have said this a few times and I will say it again that ICG coins are accepted by those who can grade and are widely accepted by buyers on Ebay. At a small discount they sell quite well. I really like ICG.
Things I like to do: Collect PL Morgans. That’s is all.
Comments
LOL...That's why each time the different TPGS's are brought up in a grading seminar the "great" long-time, instructors shut the topic down. There are excellent coins in each of the top four grading service slabs. I'll go so far to say I have seen excellent coins in one other's too.
If you need a "crutch" and you wish to pay more for a particular TPGS slab because down the line someone who cannot grade for themselves and also needs a crutch will pay more for it - fine. SEGS, ICG, and to a lesser extent ANACS seem to be doing OK in spite of all the negativity directed at them. Knowledgeable collectors/dealers (I call them the "sharks-of-the-midway" - many here know their names) ignore the slab or the label. They talk down the brand-X holders and deprive "suckers" from the gem coins they once owned! I love it - as knowledge is power. I wish I had their skills.
Furthermore, IMO, members here should not be implying that ANY of the TPGS's gives special grading to a telemarketer or Ebay seller. The only reason I can think of for a 65 to drop to a 63 is a patch of hairlines that was missed. Any collector WHO KNOWS HOW TO GRADE would have noticed the quarter was over graded and would have sold it in the ICG slab or cracked to out and sold it "raw" to another blind collector rather than trying for a cross. PERIOD.
PS I know one of the "bottom feeding" TPGS often puts a note why a competitors slab did not cross. It is very educational.
Trust isn't the right word for ICG, among friends I have a different meaning of I.C.G. but that's for another time. Anyhow, I trust my grading ability and if I find an ICG coin that looks reasonable I'd buy it accordingly and in this market, it most likely would be discounted so more power to those of us who can grade for ourselves and not rely on plastic. ANACS falls into the same boat.
Andrew Blinkiewicz-Heritage
I've seen good coins in ICG slabs and, from the experience posted, it seems like a number of them upgrade when crossing. When buying, I think there are opportunities in ICG slabs for the astute collector but you really need to look at the coin. When selling/slabbing, I think it depends on cost. Some TPGs are more expensive and some are less expensive depending on the coin so that is a consideration relative to coin value.
I have the most PCGS slabs but occasionally and just picked up another ICG coin (which may get crossed eventually).
When ICG was still located in Colorado, their grades were equal or close to that of PCGS. I had several 1928 Peace $ MS64's that crossed (same grade) & one "S" that did not. I trust their early graded coins more than the ones now graded in FL.
@Ablinky Please post them for our enjoyment! I only know one:
What about Ignorant coin graders! Who's next?
3. ICG=
This is a big upgrade for centsles compared to his self slabbing NNC holders.
I once sold him a XF details graded, cleaned, rare date gold dollar, that I later found him selling in an straight grade AU58 NNC slab.
Certainly better than his NNC coins, although I have happily bought these also as they used to occ. go for a song!
Well, just Love coins, period.
**When the coin comes back I will definitely take Insider2's advice and see what I missed. I thought I looked at it pretty closely. I guess I missed the same thing that ICG missed. But then nobody pays me to grade coins.
It is good to get advice from someone who is a perfect grader. It must be nice to have every coin that one sends in for grading come back with the exact same grade that one graded it.**
@uscoinguy said: "When the coin comes back I will definitely take Insider2's advice and see what I missed. I thought I looked at it pretty closely. I guess I missed the same thing that ICG missed. But then nobody pays me to grade coins."
All TPGS miss "things" or "let the things they didn't miss slide" for assorted reasons. For example, exceptional eye appeal can trump lots of "things" that were NOT missed. When you get the coin back, tip it up 45 degrees and slowly rotate it under a 75W - 100W incandescent light. If I was correct, you'll either see an unnatural color with continuous hairlines or more likely to see bright flash from a wheel mark patch.
@uscoinguy continued: "It is good to get advice from someone who is a perfect grader. It must be nice to have every coin that one sends in for grading come back with the exact same grade that one graded it."
There is no such thing as a perfect grader. Someone will always disagree - even with those who probably come close to perfection. I can think of five right away who own big companies that either grade coins or auction them. Then you can add many of the long-time numismatists who work for them. Nevertheless, none of these guys is infallible. They can miss "things" and ignore "things" with the best of us.
While I think grading services are a good addition to our hobby/business, I don't use them and do not need them. Actually, I do use/need ICG to slab some of the counterfeits I collect.
Advice is free. I don't believe any advice I receive (about virtually anything) until I test it as I judge where it came from. In an authentication seminar back in 1974, the instructor told his class that the certification service dropped over 60% of the professional dealer consultants they had used previously for authentication opinions! Think about that when reading authentication or grading opinions on coin forums.
I realize this is only one example but it does make me a little suspicious about what kind of deal ICG made with that dealer. <
I believe "Centsles" business is located near ICG. It may be all good but there also may be a whiff of something in the air and it ain't roses.
AFAIK, plenty of large submitters get favorable pricing at TPGS's. As far as favorable grades...you seem to smell more than I can add.
That all shows some variability but grading services have been missing things for quite a while, even cac misses things once in a great while. "Knowing how to grade" can be subjective with certain coins on the line. But if the trend is for services to time after time like NNC show an upward or blind bias toward profit then something not right is going on, and he was lucky to not get nailed in lawsuits.
I trust myself looking at the coin in any holder and then deciding whether or not I want the coin. I tend to enjoy looking more at raw coins.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Does this mean that ICG has been relegated to NNC status?
Another one bites the dust.
I don't want to attract anyone to attack me but I really don't think ICG would really compromise their integrity like that. Randy and Skip seem like stand up guys to me.
Why would someone attack you for expressing an honest opinion?
I don't know, people can get upset when presented with an opposing opinion.
I have cracked out every ICG slab I have purchased. I think the number is a whopping 2 I have owned.
ICG coins are pretty safe up to $200 or so; as you climb up the grading and price scale risks may raise some issues. The problem comes with guarantees down the road, first authenticity, which are not an issue with the four main services, then accurate grading, which is usually close with dollars. Pre-1850 coins require real scrutiny especially with the money grades. You could do a scientific report which would involve rotating a large statistically significant sampling of coins through P/N/A/I and maybe cac as well. It would cost a lot of time and money but would be a good service to the hobby.
The coins interest me more than the wrappers, but I'm weird that way.
A couple recent sales, curious how PCGS/NGC would grade these $20s: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1873-LIBERTY-HEAD-20-GOLD-DOUBLE-EAGLE-OPEN-3-ICG-MS63-RARE-THIS-NICE-/382136226497?hash=item58f91812c1:g:76sAAOSwpONZSpUX&nma=true&si=uv0CtS4Qz%2F8sm0DiE0v8Pa2NwRE%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1861-LIBERTY-HEAD-20-GOLD-DOUBLE-EAGLE-ICG-MS61-/142421746218?hash=item2128ff622a:g:-kwAAOSwFqNZSpUO&nma=true&si=uv0CtS4Qz%2F8sm0DiE0v8Pa2NwRE%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
I've had some very favorable results on crossovers. Here is one of them.
Ebay cracked down on him last year and forced him to block out the number graded on his self slabs. Now it seems he's changing business models and submitting to the tpg who will give him the best grades he can still show on eBay.
That looks like an old label done when ICG was in CO a decade ago. My bet is "gradeflation" caused much of the jump in grade.
With $1000 and above coins you wonder why he is still using a $60 scanner for the images, you would think he could afford professional photography.
You're right. The ICG was a 02-2000 purchase and upgraded to PCGS in 10-2013
No
All the ICG ones I tried to cross to PCGS all came back as problem coins
I have had a few upgrades, it totally depends on the coin. Personally I preferred the old ICG holders, though the new ones look better to me than Anacs, though their old small holders were good, "less is more".
I sure hope this is not the case - bought too many coins from him.
Why did Ebay shut him down?
They changed their rules; only PCGS, NGC, Anacs and Icg certified coins can be listed with numerical grades. NNC was thus unable to feature their "graded" coins.
I don't know how he does so much business with the lousy scans he uses. Some of the images look so washed out, it really is all a crapshoot.
I don't think that language immunizes him from a SNAD claim. If all else fails, pay with a credit card, eat the postage yourself to mail it back and do a chargeback if the coin truly is not as described.
When he was selling his NNC coins he had to take the returns within a reasonable ebay directed period of time. All ebay sellers have to take the returns, of course he will block the buyer, say "a deal is a deal" but not without proper disclosure. If you had to keep the expensive coin your only recourse is a guarantee submission which can be very difficult. If I was "forced" to keep an expensive coin with problems I would get a professional letter or two, first bring it up with the grading service then go over their heads if they reject a reasonable claim.
@logger7 He was selling NNC coins LONG after the eBay rules changed in 2007 and were then tightened in 2012 (http://news.coinupdate.com/ebay-announces-changes-to-listings-policy-for-coins-1322/).
What did change more recently is that slightly more occasionally eBay does take down listings that violate policy, but it's pretty rare.
2007
2012
After a lot of whoop-de-woop, ANACS and ICG met the new rules, so eBay basically went back to 2007 with a (new) requirement that coins listed at $2500+ were certified from the 4.
Whether you like them or not, SEGS would _seem _to meet the published policy, but has never been added...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
The new rules also apply to certified paper money that can only be certified by the two main companies. Over a certain price level there should be requirements for stronger certification and grading rules. I have seen a fair number of Anacs certified coins that looked optimistically graded, an 1890-s $20 graded MS63 for example that was no better than MS62. The dealer wanted Greysheet money which more and more is a premium number of cac certified coins. Caveat emptor.
i have bought a couple ICG graded coins. i've had pretty good luck with them. i would not trust the coin without seeing it in hand though.
Does SEGS have an online cert lookup yet? I believe that is the requirement they were not able to meet.
Yes...
http://segsgrading.com/Products/CoinLookup.aspx
The internet Archive wayback machine shows it at least as far back as May 2013
https://web.archive.org/web/20130503022055/http://segsgrading.com/Products/CoinLookup.aspx
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I just tried it and it doesn't work.
You need to try a newly graded coin. There was a big kerfuffle about SEGS' guarantee not applying to prior ownership back a couple years and I vaguely remember somebody saying they had purged the database.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
If that is the case then that automatically disqualifies SEGS from ebay. ANACS biggest problem qualifying was working out a system to lookup the older slabs in their database.
I would like to know if anyone has tried the guarantee program of Anacs, ICG or Segs? Do they pay out or admit errors like NGC/PCGS?
This was an example of Segs avoiding responsibility for an overgraded coin: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/segs-not-honoring-guarantee.279756/
Do remember that this is a PCGS forum provided by them for discussion of their services, not the industry overall.
But, for each service, what they guarantee is described on their web page, just as with PCGS or NGC!
With services that have changed ownership several times, there also can be a time limit... read carefully...
ANACS: http://www.anacs.com/contentPages/Guarantee.aspx
ICG: http://www.icgcoin.com/about/guarantee/
SEGS: http://www.segsgrading.com/Content/Guarantee
SEGS changed ownership structure in the last couple years and there was a big thread on one of the boards about not guaranteeing coins holdered under the prior ownership. Google for it, but read it for the nuances, it was not as simple as initially presented...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I tried to crack out a coin in an ICG holder. Broke my hammer.
I know of several cases when a TPGS offered a certain # of free submissions to satisfy a guarantee. I also know of similar coins returned as a replacement to satisfy the guarantee.
I've possibly cracked out more coins than most posters here although not close to the guys who do it at the TPGS. Most of the time I used a hammer although the vice and nippers were available. I've never broken a hammer. Only twice has a coin completely separated from the case and plastic insert (no damage visible using high magnification). I believe the correct method is to have the edge of the slab perpendicular to a hard surface.
The few submissions to them felt their
Grading accurate based on material submitted. However the market dictates PCGS / NGC.
I have about 20 ICG / ANACS coins. No interest or concern in crossing as is material $100 and under.
The dealer who told u ICG is like raw coins is full of it and trying to rip u.
I agree, the market dictates PCGS / NGC. Furthermore, many here have argued that the market dictates PCGS only.
When the dealer said ICG slabs were like "raw" coins he may have just tried to "push" the idea that NGC and PCGS dictate the market rather than being a crook.
I have said this a few times and I will say it again that ICG coins are accepted by those who can grade and are widely accepted by buyers on Ebay. At a small discount they sell quite well. I really like ICG.