Guess the grade--$2 1/2 Indian

logger7

Some copper spotting it looks like, the shop owner called it "AU".

1630Boston

Tough to judge from the photos

jwitten

Gonna be a hard guess the grade since it looks like it isn't graded I would say AU55-MS61 as long as it hasn't been cleaned.. kinda hard to tell from those pictures.

grip

That's a tough one. Wild guess 58.

Cougar1978

From the photo it looks MS. I would call it MS62. The copper spotting a detracting factor.

If not slabbed would definitely back off.

TequilaDave

MS64

grip

Maybe better pictures would help. The reverse looks MS but confused on the obverse.

TomB

The images remind me of scans, but the coin has the feel of an MS piece.

steveben

run forrest run!

actually, there is no way to grade from those photos. also, i am not sure it can be authenticated from those photos.

it looks au on the obv.

DancingFire

How much is he asking?

BruceS

looks like a good strike, but the cheek chatter and spotting is very distracting-to me at least.

logger7

It was purchased at around $250, it looks around an MS62 to me, will try to photograph it. Some people like certain types of copper spots, with all the fakes at least you know it is real with those, hopefully.

abcde12345

Super plus proof 65. PCGS might award it the gold sticker too!

DanielBoone

These tend to be very tough to grade. It definitely looks MS to me with a very good strike and considerable detail on the reverse feathers but a few hits on the obverse cheek. I'd say MS62

BruceS

@abcde12345 said:
Super plus proof 65. PCGS might award it the gold sticker too!

Are you trying to break the record on disagrees? Come on now your just being silly. Just about everyone of your posts mention PCGS in some manner. We get it, you some kind of cheerleader? Proof? Sticker? Come on.

DancingFire

@abcde12345 said:
Super plus proof 65. PCGS might award it the gold sticker too!

If you gonna say something stupid at least try to make some sense.

DancingFire

@logger7 said:
It was purchased at around $250, it looks around an MS62 to me, will try to photograph it. Some people like certain types of copper spots, with all the fakes at least you know it is real with those, hopefully.

Sounds like a fair price.

jwitten

Ya, nice price for it. I happen to like the spots/toning

ricko

Looks low MS.....61/62....so much glare in the pictures....Cheers, RickO

ChrisRx

mannie gray

@abcde12345 said:
Super plus proof 65. PCGS might award it the gold sticker too!

Actually, I think you are being conservative.
I think it's a Super Dee Duper Deep Cameo Proof 69.
Immediately send to PCGS, or fly to nearest large show and do a walkthrough.

darktone

Counterfeit in my opinion.

Boosibri

Grading any incuse Indians via photos is simply guessing

logger7

@darktone said:
Counterfeit in my opinion.

What is that based on? Copper mottling seems consistent with the way some of the real ones come.

jwitten

@darktone said:
Counterfeit in my opinion.

I disagree, and these are my main focus.

darktone

I hope it's not.

darktone

The color of the field compared to the devices, the spike coming out of the Indians nose, the frost of the devices, what looks like tooling marks on the jaws bone. And just the overall look. Dealers have been known to sell counterfeits that did not grade as AU for the gold value.

jwitten

@darktone said:
The color of the field compared to the devices, the spike coming out of the Indians nose, the frost of the devices, what looks like tooling marks on the jaws bone. And just the overall look. Dealers have been known to sell counterfeits that did not grade as AU for the gold value.

Color and frost is goofy because it appears its a scan. The "spike" and "tool marks" are scratches.

darktone

I hope your right and I am wrong.

logger7

Graded MS62 (NGC) and a sharp tough dealer I know bought it from me @$305, with GS at $320 I had to go behind.

Insider2

@abcde12345 said:
Super plus proof 65. PCGS might award it the gold sticker too!

I pushed the disagree button at first, then retracted it as your comment was an obvious joke that the "ex-pert" graders around here din't appreciate. I'm going to give you a "like" Very funny!

logger7

The dealer buyer is one of the sharpest dealer/graders I know, he scored perfect in the CO springs grading seminar except for one coin he got into an argument with the heads of the seminar about.

jwitten

@logger7 said:
Graded MS62 (NGC) and a sharp tough dealer I know bought it from me @$305, with GS at $320 I had to go behind.

Cool! Unless I feel an Indian is a 63 or better, or is toned/neat variety, its almost not worth the cost to grade. I'm glad one with cool copper spots (my opinion) is now graded and safe though.

Insider2

@darktone said: The color of the field compared to the devices, the spike coming out of the Indians nose, the frost of the devices, what looks like tooling marks on the jaws bone. And just the overall look."

There is no way to say this in a nice way. Absolutely nothing in your post is correct except the last part about dealers. I'should delete it all except for the last part for the sake of the way you'll come across for posterity.

@Boosibri said:
Grading any incuse Indians via photos is simply guessing

True, I should have guessed MS-63 at a minimum. The image has full details with blazing luster and none of the usual "rub" on the high points is visible. The copper spots come right off very easily. It's too bad we don't have the opinion of the professionals who could grade the coin in-hand..

BillJones

The first set of photos made this tough to grade because the coin is Mint State but with little eye appeal. I think that MS-62 is a good grade for this piece.

jwitten

@logger7 said:

The dealer buyer is one of the sharpest dealer/graders I know, he scored perfect in the CO springs grading seminar except for one coin he got into an argument with the heads of the seminar about.

Was this coin for sale on ebay for awhile? I almost bought it because of the red copper spots

TopographicOceans

You came out doing well

logger7

@jwitten said:

@logger7 said:

The dealer buyer is one of the sharpest dealer/graders I know, he scored perfect in the CO springs grading seminar except for one coin he got into an argument with the heads of the seminar about.

Was this coin for sale on ebay for awhile? I almost bought it because of the red copper spots

@jwitten said:

@logger7 said:

The dealer buyer is one of the sharpest dealer/graders I know, he scored perfect in the CO springs grading seminar except for one coin he got into an argument with the heads of the seminar about.

Was this coin for sale on ebay for awhile? I almost bought it because of the red copper spots

I thought that was you Mr. Witten, but with the ebay costs you have to sell at least 10% over a direct sale.

abcde12345

Now look who has egg on their face!