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Gobrecht Dollars and NNC Holders
Zoins
Posts: 33,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've noticed that a number of Gobrecht dollars show up in NNC holders, including the following which just sold today. Anyone know why NNC would be used for these? I would imagine there would be incentive to get these into PCGS holders.
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Centsles self slabs in NNC holders so Centsles is the grader and the seller. Their holders are worthless so yes, any of the top few grading companies slabs should realize more money. Even with the problems this piece must have.
@VanHalen....You say "Even with the problems this piece must have."..... Have you had experience with these coins? Just wondering, since that is a fairly condemning statement... I have not had any experience with the NNC Gobrechts, so it would help if you elaborated on this. Cheers, RickO
I think he was referring to NNC in general as a purveyor of problem coins in non-problem NNC slabs. He has purchased two slabbed problem coins from me over the years and re-slabbed them as problem-free coins. I have seen countless other examples...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
My biggest concern would be if the pieces were authentic. Not that I have any knowledge of the contrary with this TPG; I would be skeptical of authenticity of coins like this in any third world holder.
@mbogoman...Thanks... that clarifies the issue... plus your personal experience validates it further. Cheers, RickO
To be honest, I kind of like the look of them in those holders, regardless of whether it means they are authentic or not.
YN Member of the ANA, ANS, NBS, EAC, C4, MCA, PNNA, CSNS, ILNA, TEC, and more!
Always buying numismatic literature and sample slabs.
I noticed that they didn't give it a grade. Is that normal for this brand of holder?
It's unusual. If you search for NNC, they almost all have grades. I thought this one was unusual and think the black circle might actually be photoshopped to respect eBay's rules for not showing grades for unapproved holders.
At $6,000, I would want it to be authentic.
Here's a non-authentic one that sold for $20.00.
If I was buying it, I wouldn't want it in that holder. I mean just for looking at it.
YN Member of the ANA, ANS, NBS, EAC, C4, MCA, PNNA, CSNS, ILNA, TEC, and more!
Always buying numismatic literature and sample slabs.
It looks genuine, but I can't be 100% sure from the pictures. I have a larger concern about possible environmental damage. Usually when a coin like this is raw or in an off-brand holder, which is really the same thing, you have to ask yourself, "Why?"
Gee, it's a genuine copy. Now that is good to know!
Centsles is a top level coin grader/dealer. I recall he either won or came in near the top of one of the early PCGS grading contests. So they usually know what's good and what isn't. The only time Centsles will put a coin into a top tier holder is when 1) they know it will get a grade....and 2) they can make more that way. If they think they can make more money self-grading....that's what they should/would do. I have no doubts Centsles has sent plenty of coins to PCGS/NGC over the years.
Yep they go to PCGS with the right coins I have bought a lot of Washington quarters from them in PCGS MS grades in the past. I see a lot of rim issues with this coin.
I believe the black circle is superimposed on the image for the ebay auction picture. I likely has a grade assigned and I was guessing XF40 or so.
There is no way I would trust a third world slabber to authenticate something like this - you cannot even see the edge.
I didn't say I trusted them. I speculated as to whether or not the coin is genuine and whether or not it has environmental damage. It could be the the "environmental damage" is a way to cover up the the fact that it's not real. I've seen that done before. BUT I was only guessing based on the photo. I won't buy the coin either based on the holder and the picture.
There was one in a VT auction a couple years ago discussed here: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7662330
There aren't that many out there, private collections and all, I would think most of them have had auction appearances.
I saw one many years ago that had been holed on the right side and whizzed. I have not seen it since. You should consider that there are also lots of restrikes, and low level auctioneers don't mention the turn of the dies between the obverse and reverse. In short this coin is scarce, but not very scarce or rare.
Good to know. Didn't realize Centsles is such a good grader/dealer.
FWIW - I've purchased foreign coins that I was happy with that were in NNC slabs. I cracked them out and submitted them to PCGS/ATS and received the grades I thought they would. As always, you have to screen each coin, regardless of the holder it is in...
Centsles used his talents for evil purposes. Authenticity may be possible with the NNC holders but why trust them? After a while those who make big money not telling the truth have trouble remembering what they told to whom. "You're only as sick as your secrets". http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/national-numismatic-certification-llc/st-cloud-florida-34770-1943/national-numismatic-certification-llc-do-not-buy-these-coins-because-they-are-a-scam-the-468650
I have bought probably 15 coins from Mr. Johnson (Centsles). out of them 3 were problem coins that I returned. the others grade with our host fine; however, they always graded minimum 2 points below NNC grade. IMHO He tends to over grade his coins and fails to disclose problems. His pictures don't appear to be photo shopped but angled to hide things unless you look very very close. If you buy from him I would just say your rolling the dice to get a cleaned/damaged coin but returned aren't hard. This is an example of a NNC purchase Nov 2015. I believe it was marked MS64.
Was just looking over this again and noticed it was relisted and sold for even higher.
And it will be relisted again in another month or so. The last auction was won by one of his shill bidder accounts (99% of all activity with this seller). Besides his other well documented ethical issues, he is a rampant employer of shill bidding on his auctions.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Buying from "centsless" would be a senseless undertaking.
Has anyone here, other than Robert Johnson, submitted a coin to NNC?
I bought a low mintage hard to find $5 lib in a NNC MS62 holder from a dealer at the 2012 GNA show that now resides in a PCGS AU Details - Tooling holder. I didn't pay anywhere close to MS62 money, or even AU money for that matter. Until I find another I'm happy with the coin.
As long as you pay attention to what you are doing and take the grades on the NNC slabs with a a grain of salt you should be fine.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
Ebay stopped allowing the self slabber, NNC aka centsles from showing any numeric grades in their NNC listings as discussed back in June:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/965562/nnc-coins-ebay-no-longer-allows-picture-of-the-holder#latest
Here's another 1836 that just sold for $9,211. Photos for posterity. Given how few of these are, it would be great for there to be a photo registry of every one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1836-GOBRECHT-SILVER-DOLLAR-ABOUT-UNCIRCULATED-VERY-RARE-1000-STRUCK-/311895740911
IMO, the reason they are not in a major TPGS holder is because of problems. That's all I'll say except if I bought one of these I'd cross it into a PCGS or NGC details holder immediately . Once done, I should rest easy.
There is no way I could afford a Gobrecht Dollar, but I did get one of these
INYNWHWeTrust-TexasNationals,ajaan,blu62vette
coinJP, Outhaul ,illini420,MICHAELDIXON, Fade to Black,epcjimi1,19Lyds,SNMAN,JerseyJoe, bigjpst, DMWJR , lordmarcovan, Weiss,Mfriday4962,UtahCoin,Downtown1974,pitboss,RichieURich,Bullsitter,JDsCoins,toyz4geo,jshaulis, mustanggt, SNMAN
I'm half wondering if any 1837s will show up....
It was shill bid up to that sold amount. The two underbidders chasing it higher had 80% and 100% activity with the seller. The winner had 40%, so he may be legit - his sample size was too small to say one way or the other.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
The grade on the NNC slab has a black dot over it since they can't represent a numerical grade on eBay in those slabs.
I did buy this from them, which is fine...so one shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater, but in general, the observations of many here are fairly representative.
Was able to cross over an nnc ms66 1913 t type one buffalo nickel to a pcgs proof-64!!
you never can tell till you try!
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Rims say "Ouch!". Surfaces suggest possibly tooled/smoothed. Authenticity give it a certain charm
The guy knows how to grade. Years ago, I used to search his listings for the word "original." If he said it was original or fully original, it was and I purchased several coins from him that way. He doesn't seem to use that descriptor anymore. I'm not sure that makes him a good dealer, but he knows coins, IMO.
Tom