NNC coins, eBay no longer allows picture of the holder

ArizonaRareCoins

EBay has finally decided that NNC aka centsles, can no longer show the front holder in the listings. This should finally put an end to NNC and their improperly graded problem junk coins since their bogus grades can't be shown anymore.

davewesen

so they can't picture the slab? where do they draw the line - PCI ?

coindeuce

That probably didn't come about proactively on eBay's end. I'd wager that the number of customer returns of NNCed coins for SNAD had reached a critical mass, and when observed by eBay, they realized they were headed for a litigious showdown. Just a case of ebay CYA. They couldn't care less about the unhappy buyers.

TigersFan2

Originally posted by: ArizonaRareCoins
EBay has finally decided that NNC aka centsles, can no longer show the front holder in the listings. This should finally put an end to NNC and their improperly graded problem junk coins since their bogus grades can't be shown anymore.

Are you sure?

I still see their auctions showing their holders.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

...good riddance

TigersFan2

Originally posted by: ArizonaRareCoins
EBay has finally decided that NNC aka centsles, can no longer show the front holder in the listings. This should finally put an end to NNC and their improperly graded problem junk coins since their bogus grades can't be shown anymore.

They do sell a few PCGS coins and I see I purchased a Seated Liberty Dollar in PCGS from them about a month ago.

ArizonaRareCoins

Originally posted by: TigersFan2

Originally posted by: ArizonaRareCoins
EBay has finally decided that NNC aka centsles, can no longer show the front holder in the listings. This should finally put an end to NNC and their improperly graded problem junk coins since their bogus grades can't be shown anymore.

Are you sure?

I still see their auctions showing their holders.

It's a new ruling so some of his older listings may still have pics of the holder, but, look at the newer listings ie:

1831 no pic of NNC front slab with phony grade

Than again, since when has he obeyed eBay rules.

halfhunter

I see that ANACS isn't the only one that grade These







HH

TopographicOceans

There are a lot of homemade holders that still show the numeric grade in the photos.

howards

It's really no different than a seller who writes something wrong/misleading on a 2x2 and shows that in an auction photo.



I actually prefer that the bogus holder be shown in its entirety. That way if I buy one I can verify the slab number and make sure I got the auction coin.



And yes, in over 15 years of buying on eBay, there have been a very small number of coins in bogus holders that I thought still worth buying, if they were priced according to my grade and not the slab grade.

jesbroken

What happened to "buy the coin not the holder"? There is no protecting an uneducated buyer and should there really be? No coin police for any other coin sale on ebay, so why this. I have bought many centsles offered coins and hardly ever bought the coin agreeing with NNC's grade. It would be an accident if that occurred. But centsles photos are more than adequate for any buyer to decide for themselves the coin grade(at least as a photo can be). Sad that centsles is being singled out for this. Please realize that they have over 177,000 sales on ebay while maintaining a 99.8% positive feedback, so not so many dissatisfied customers.

JMO

Jim

7Jaguars

I agree, and keeping in mind that principle have probably bought 6-8 coins from him over the years and not unhappy with any of them as I took them for what they were as opposed to what they were labelled. His pictures are hard to make out detail some times though.

ricko

I have heard that there are treasures among the trash on ebay... I just do not have the time or inclination to search... Cheers, RickO

astrorat

Originally posted by: ArizonaRareCoins

Originally posted by: TigersFan2

Originally posted by: ArizonaRareCoins
EBay has finally decided that NNC aka centsles, can no longer show the front holder in the listings. This should finally put an end to NNC and their improperly graded problem junk coins since their bogus grades can't be shown anymore.

Are you sure?

I still see their auctions showing their holders.

It's a new ruling so some of his older listings may still have pics of the holder, but, look at the newer listings ie:

1831 no pic of NNC front slab with phony grade

Than again, since when has he obeyed eBay rules.

Keep scrolling ... the front of the holder is imaged below in the description.

TigersFan2

Originally posted by: halfhunter
I see that ANACS isn't the only one that grade These



HH

MS69?????

Wabbit2313

Originally posted by: ArizonaRareCoins





It's a new ruling so some of his older listings may still have pics of the holder, but, look at the newer listings ie:

It's not a new ruling, they must finally be cracking down on them. If this keeps up, say goodbye to PCI, ACG, etc. I sure won't buy any of them if I can't at least see what the original grade was.



From eBay rules:



A coin graded by a non-approved grading company can be listed, but the numeric grade can't be included in the title, description, or item specifics. You can't include an image of the coin in its graded holder if that image shows a grade that is not completely obscured and unreadable on the photo.

derryb

Ebay's coin listing policy requirements:


Applies to all slabs except NGC, PGCS, ICG and ANACS.

LindeDad

Old rule finally being followed.

grip

Some, if not most of his coins look smoothed in Photoshop.

silverpop

there is always a way around rules and it's just a matter of time before it's found and used

TwoSides2aCoin

In theory, grading is subjective.

roadrunner

Originally posted by: jesbroken

..... Please realize that they have over 177,000 sales on ebay while maintaining a 99.8% positive feedback, so not so many dissatisfied customers.

JMO

Jim

Please also realize that 80-95% of all sellers on Ebay probably have a 99.8-100.00% rating. Let's just say that the curve is a "little" skewed towards the very top. I would consider any Ebay seller with FB at 99.7% or lower, to be suspect. There's not much room from 99.8-100.00 to separate the wheat from the chaff. And I would say the majority of shysters are well-disguised with 100% ratings.



It's also the case that many Ebay buyers won't find out they got a bad deal until years down the road when they decide to sell their heirloom collection. Aren't most buyers afraid to leave negative feedback or just plain clueless about grading? The Ebay rating system is essentially useless, with many shysters among those with 100% ratings.

Cameonut

I have one NNC holdered coin for inclusion in my collection of bottom tier grading services.

TigersFan2

Originally posted by: roadrunner

Originally posted by: jesbroken
..... Please realize that they have over 177,000 sales on ebay while maintaining a 99.8% positive feedback, so not so many dissatisfied customers.
JMO
Jim

Please also realize that 80-95% of all sellers on Ebay probably have a 99.8-100.00% rating. Let's just say that the curve is a "little" skewed towards the very top. I would consider any Ebay seller with FB at 99.7% or lower, to be suspect. There's not much room from 99.8-100.00 to separate the wheat from the chaff. And I would say the majority of shysters are well-disguised with 100% ratings.

It's also the case that many Ebay buyers won't find out they got a bad deal until years down the road when they decide to sell their heirloom collection. Aren't most buyers afraid to leave negative feedback or just plain clueless about grading? The Ebay rating system is essentially useless, with many shysters among those with 100% ratings.

The problem with the Ebay rating is that it combines buyer and seller feedback, of which feedback as a buyer can only be positive. Plus, if a seller is a complete dishonest rip-off artist but the transaction is resolved through an issue being filed, the buyer is disallowed from leaving feedback and any feedback left is removed. So dishonest sellers can make their rating very close to 100% by diluting the rating with purchases and resolving all complaints satisfactorily by Ebay rules. The rating is really bogus and sort of new age liberalism of everyone getting a trophy and a pat on the back for participating without regard to the quality of participation.

Another thing... Last week I purchased a coin from a seller who sells all coins with $8.95 shipping. Excessive, yes. But I saw the shipping amount and bid accordingly. When I looked at the Seller's ratings, the 1 to 5 starts for seller items, this seller had 4.9 out of 5 for shipping cost. Another indication that the feedback ratings are useless. Even though it's up-front and can be factored into the bid amount, no intelligent person taking Ebay's feedback seriously would grade this seller 5 stars on shipping cost. People just click 5 stars on everything and move on.

mannie gray

I've bought a few dozen coins from them through the years, and have done OK, a couple of slabbed coins from NGC in particular that looked much better in hand.

And as a previous poster noted, if you buy the NNC slabbed stuff at your grade and not theirs, you can do fairly well.

TwoSides2aCoin

Grind, meet axe.

Wabbit2313

Someone bought a Morgan proof and another bought a Buff proof in those holders not marked as such. I can't remember all the details but if someone is that bad at grading, they can also miss some things, like a proof.

ShadyDave

I've purchased two coins in NNC holders (both foreign) and was very happy with both coins I got at "clearance" prices due to the holder. I ended up cracking them both out and sending them to PCGS and they received grades that I expected.

TwoSides2aCoin

Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin
In theory, grading is subjective.

A recent submission to PCGS keeps me objectively asking : what might they grade tomorrow ?

1864 1C Copper Nickel Genuine - UNC Details (91 - Questionable Color) USA
1905 1C, RB MS64RB USA
1873 5C Closed 3 Genuine - UNC Details (98 - Damage) USA
1932-D 25C Genuine - XF Details (92 - Cleaned) USA
1839 50C RE, Capped, Lg. Letters Genuine - XF Details (92 - Cleaned) USA
1855-O 50C Arrows Genuine - XF Details (92 - Cleaned) USA
1928 $1 MS62 USA
1927 $1 Genuine - (99 - PVC Residue)


Anyway I look at it, eBay sucks.

epcjimi1

Topic Title: NNC coins, eBay no longer allows picture of the holder
Topic Summary:
Created On: 6/27/2016 9:15 PM

Since the ebay coin cops panel was dissolved /eliminated, evidence of ebay policing the coin forum is a good thing.

Wabbit2313

Originally posted by: epcjimi1

Topic Title: NNC coins, eBay no longer allows picture of the holder

Topic Summary:

Created On: 6/27/2016 9:15 PM



Since the ebay coin cops panel was dissolved /eliminated, evidence of ebay policing the coin forum is a good thing.

Good riddance to that coin panel. Because of those knuckleheads trying to grade/examine a coin from photos, many a coin were taken down that were totally legit.

BUFFNIXX

really?

Just put in the item number 201616364208 into the ebay search line, do a search on it and see what you get!

mbogoman

He has purchased coins from me in the past that were in problem holders, cracked them out and reholdered them with vastly inflated, problem free grades in NNC holders. He is as dishonest as they come...

BStrauss3

There is zero evidence that eBay is doing anything like this... there are 100s of full face NNC coins for sale with full pictures. More likely, ONE specific seller that we all hate decided to stop advertising his fraud.

BUFFNIXX

centsles is blocking out the grade on nnc slabs but sill posting them as the following example shows from a current auction.
[URL=http://s1012.photobucket.com/user/buffnixx/media/s-l500.oiu7_zpsybuyg00m.jpg.html][/URL]

BUFFNIXX

other sellers are still showing the entire slab, both front and back, as they have always done.
this includes the nnc grade.
how would eBay be able to police this?

derryb

Originally posted by: BUFFNIXX
centsles is blocking out the grade on nnc slabs but sill posting them as the following example shows from a current auction.

The ebay rule:

"Photos or scans of coins in holders from a non-approved grading company cannot show a grade. The grade must be completely obscured and unreadable."

derryb

Originally posted by: BUFFNIXX
other sellers are still showing the entire slab, both front and back, as they have always done.
this includes the nnc grade.
how would eBay be able to police this?

They depend on someone reporting the violation. And then, they sometimes take action.

PaleElf

Originally posted by: mbogoman

He has purchased coins from me in the past that were in problem holders, cracked them out and reholdered them with vastly inflated, problem free grades in NNC holders. He is as dishonest as they come...

That is big business for a lot of raw sellers on eBay. Buy genuine slabbed coins, crack them out, and sell them as AU/BU raw specimens.



I actually like protections for "uneducated buyers" (as jesbroken called them). Today's "uneducated buyer" may turn into tomorrow's educated collector. However, today's "uneducated buyer" that is significantly ripped off by an unethical seller may stop collecting all together. In the long run, it is better for everyone if the collector base is set up to grow.

Bob1951

Originally posted by: jesbroken

What happened to "buy the coin not the holder"? There is no protecting an uneducated buyer and should there really be? No coin police for any other coin sale on ebay, so why this. I have bought many centsles offered coins and hardly ever bought the coin agreeing with NNC's grade. It would be an accident if that occurred. But centsles photos are more than adequate for any buyer to decide for themselves the coin grade(at least as a photo can be). Sad that centsles is being singled out for this. Please realize that they have over 177,000 sales on ebay while maintaining a 99.8% positive feedback, so not so many dissatisfied customers.

JMO

Jim

I agree 100% with this assessment.



The savvy buyer can still find bargains in his auctions if you know what to look for. I like centsles. He has gotten a bad name here. "Caveat emptor", is the phrase. I have cherry picked the worst of dealers. How many of us would not buy from a dealer on ebay just because we don't like him if he has what we need at bargain prices? I can hate the dealer and love the coin if need be. You censtsles haters can buy elsewhere and leave the bargains for me.



With the exception of PCGS, NGC and ANACS, (+ICCS for Canadian coins) every coin should be bought as a raw coin.



Bob

BUFFNIXX

Centsles is OK. A lot of collectors have bought coins from them. You just have to grade each coin yourself whether in an nnc slab or a pcgs or ngc holder. I have no patience with collectors who whine
and complain about the sellers on eBay. If you do not like a particular seller then stay away from them. There was a really nice NNC slabbed 1925-s buffalo nickel on eBay in an nnc slab. Coin was in this
case correctly graded and priced right. Whoever bought that coin got a good deal, and it is in an nnc slab.

BUFFNIXX

Many people also cry about Great Southern on eBay. Their photos are fantastic. I have bought coins from them and have been more than satisfied. And I have returned a few and got my
money back promptly. Buy the coin, not the seller is as appropriate as buy the coin, not the holder.

ArizonaRareCoins

This is Hillarious......now that centsles can no longer show pictures of his bogus numeric grades on his NNC holders, he is now grading his NNC coins in holders with vague wording descriptions and NO numeric grade. lol:
1908-d NNC-NEAR CHOICE UNC

Cougar1978

Unless a coin is in an ANACS, ICG, PCGS, Or NGC Holder it should not be accepted as a TPG coin IMO. I thought ebay already has this in place in place, Teletrade did. I would not be surprised if GC did too. Now if someone uses self slabs simply with their business names, I really have no problem with that.

I once heard a dealer set up next to me at a show telling a customer his coins were not really TPG coins (bc not services mentioned above). The collector argued with him and was told "well shop them around, I know when I drive from Houston to Dallas I take I45 not some backwoods dirt road just like when I get coins graded I go with PCGS, so wake up and smell the coffee man."

goodmoney4badmoney

"Almost Brand New" in archival plastic! If you receive a second chance offer it should be reported because we only work 4 days a week! We had over 100,000 customers served when gold was valued for a somewhat reasonable price! Please note we no longer ship to Antarctica.

TigersFan2

There's a seller at most of the Arizona coin shows that has his entire table with his own personal brand slabs, grades and all. He even has his own grading company name on the slabs. I forget what it is, but I've Googled the grading company name and find nothing on the internet. The odd thing is, he grades everything MS. The circulated coins will get a grade like MS30 or MS40. I've never spent more than a few seconds at his table because I'm just not interested and don't see what added value he's adding to his raw coins. I'd rather just see them in 2x2s with inflated grades written in the corner like many other dealers do.

BUFFNIXX

I cannot fathom how ICG got into the same group as ANACS PCGS and NGC!!
Can someone please enlighten me?

Shortly after ICG’s “birth” they were right up there with the big three.
what gives?

Cougar1978

When the CDN still published the CMI I believe ICG had a higher rating than ANACS. They are a part of the big 4.

joeykoins

Originally posted by: BUFFNIXX
I cannot fathom how ICG got into the same group as ANACS PCGS and NGC!!
Can someone please enlighten me?

Shortly after ICG’s “birth” they were right up there with the big three.
what gives?

Good point!

johnny9434

Originally posted by: halfhunter
I see that ANACS isn't the only one that grade These



HH

the item has been removed.