@DIMEMAN said:
My wife just read me K-Crap's latest quote. He said "the United States is the worst Country in the World". She said then why don't he just leave!! I just LOVE Mrs. Dimeman.
Can you show me where he said that? Google isn't showing anything and, as ridiculous as some of the stuff he's said has been, that has all the hallmarks of being a fake quote.
Why would you doubt it? K-Crap is as Un-American as they come!
Because I am highly skeptical by nature. And the lack of results from a Google search - such a quote would surely generate much coverage - would seem to indicate my skepticism was well-placed.
I couldn’t open the link, not sure if it got taken down or what but it does read like he said that. I cannot confirm though...![]
The only match from the image you posted is an opinion piece where "worst country in the world" comes from the author of the piece itself not Kaepernick.
I couldn’t open the link, not sure if it got taken down or what but it does read like he said that. I cannot confirm though...![]
The only match from the image you posted is an opinion piece where "worst country in the world" comes from the author of the piece itself not Kaepernick.
I posted it again, read it any way you want I don’t care either way I was just helping Jon out with what I found. I already said I couldn’t open the link and cannot confirm either way
@DIMEMAN said:
My wife just read me K-Crap's latest quote. He said "the United States is the worst Country in the World". She said then why don't he just leave!! I just LOVE Mrs. Dimeman.
Can you show me where he said that? Google isn't showing anything and, as ridiculous as some of the stuff he's said has been, that has all the hallmarks of being a fake quote.
Maybe, but Google is known to bury information that is not in their best interest.
@santinidollar said:
All men (people) are created equal.
Thomas Jefferson could not have been more wrong.
And your out of context quoting of what I wrote fits the opinions of an increasing number of Americans who think they are “entitled” to something rather than for the. opportunity to work for what they want without any guarantees.
You think you’re guaranteed an outcome in life as an entitlement? If your answer is yes, the hell with you.
My wife just went out on Amazon to order the Betsy Ross Flag! They are swamped with orders, but we will be getting one and flying it soon! K-Crap is making a lot of enemy's and rightfully so. My wife can't stand him and wishes him well in another Country like Iran. And yes she has a mind of her own and is very patriotic and can't stand those who are not!
When it comes to this country's flag, you don't screw around. Too many people died for that flag. I think about Iwo Jima, the famous photo of the flag being raised atop Mount Suribachi. Do you realize what those men went through to raise that flag. Pure hell. The worse hell you can imagine.
@doubledragon said:
When it comes to this country's flag, you don't screw around. Too many people died for that flag. I think about Iwo Jima, the famous photo of the flag being raised atop Mount Suribachi. Do you realize what those men went through to raise that flag. Pure hell. The worse hell you can imagine.
That picture gives me chills and should give every American chills! And K-Crap has the nerve to crap on that!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't want to dispel the mysticism of our national symbol, but I still maintain that the people, rights, and freedoms our Flag represents is a helluva lot more important than the the actual Flag itself. That includes the Anthem, and any pageantry associated with either.
Pictures of Iwo Jima and Flag-draped coffins are inspiring and gut-wrenching, and yes, we need to remember and honor the sacrifice of those who fought so hard for this country, but imo too much emphasis is placed on our symbols rather than everything and everyone those symbols represent.
@TNP777 said:
I don't want to dispel the mysticism of our national symbol, but I still maintain that the people, rights, and freedoms our Flag represents is a helluva lot more important than the the actual Flag itself. That includes the Anthem, and any pageantry associated with either.
Pictures of Iwo Jima and Flag-draped coffins are inspiring and gut-wrenching, and yes, we need to remember and honor the sacrifice of those who fought so hard for this country, but imo too much emphasis is placed on our symbols rather than everything and everyone those symbols represent.
It was the beginning of the Vietnam era and as a young kid i was at the drive-in movie with my parents. The recorded anthem was played and in the next car a soldier in uniform stepped out and stood facing the flag with his hand over his heart.
No one else that I could see did this, but the patriot one car over had skin in the game and loved his country.
You are wrong, TNP777. The flag is important and the symbolism of the flag is important. I am not one that suggests that Kap or half the NFL and two thirds of the NBA that despise this county be thrown out, but anyone that supports these vermin, regardless of how talented they are, are a bit wobbly as well.
@TNP777 said:
Pictures of Iwo Jima and Flag-draped coffins are inspiring and gut-wrenching, and yes, we need to remember and honor the sacrifice of those who fought so hard for this country, but imo too much emphasis is placed on our symbols rather than everything and everyone those symbols represent.
I agree completely. Perhaps the greatest threat we face as a free people is the suppression of speech that is deemed "hate speech", or "offensive", or "micro-aggressions" or whatever the wokest of the woke have deemed unacceptable. People are getting fired, careers are being ruined, and people are even being threatened with prosecution (and actually prosecuted in other countries) for expressing opinions. If it doesn't end quickly, it will not end well.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
@DIMEMAN said:
It makes me sick and want to puke when I hear the things that some people want to include in the 1st amendment!
True dat, but it is only as long as we can all agree that what we personally find offensive is irrelevant that we can survive as a free people. Somebody somewhere is offended by pretty much everything; the 1st amendment says "suck it up, buttercup". We already ignore too much of what the Constitution says, we should not ignore this.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
@TNP777@dallasactuary ... Nobody in this thread is saying that freedom of speech should be monitored or controlled, if Kap wanted to publicly speak out about the unjust treatment of minority’s outside of national TV on his own time nobody would give a crap, I’d say he would still be in the NFL too but he was not that good anymore so maybe that’s irrelevant. Instead of just speaking out he chooses to use the American Flag as a symbol of oppression? Aggression? Hatred? To insinuate that an entire country is a problem is moronic and idiotic. That would be relevant to a white guy getting jumped by a few Black guys and getting beat up and robbed then hating ALL Blacks because of it! I’ve already stated that Military/LE is the most diverse venue in the nations and he disrespects and hates on both organizations by kneeling on national TV and wearing pig socks? On top of it this scumbag gets masses of idiots to follow suit like moths to the flame and the agenda filled media highlights it all, and he makes money off it which is absurdly gross. Make no mistake about it, Nike don’t give a crap about him or “His” people all they care about is capitalizing on the idiots that blindly follow his lead.
CK was a normal person, a professional football player until he met his Muslim girlfriend. After she filled his head with anti American BS CK was convinced that America values were wrong. His oppression was being raised by two white parents in a middle class home. The police shooting were because suspects refused to obey simple commands. What CK really was kneeling for was his hatred of America. It now become apparent that he would be opposed to anything America and our values. I suggest he takes his America hating girlfriend and travel to the Middle East and find a faction more suited for their values.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
@2dueces said:
CK was a normal person, a professional football player until he met his Muslim girlfriend. After she filled his head with anti American BS CK was convinced that America values were wrong. His oppression was being raised by two white parents in a middle class home. The police shooting were because suspects refused to obey simple commands. What CK really was kneeling for was his hatred of America. It now become apparent that he would be opposed to anything America and our values. I suggest he takes his America hating girlfriend and travel to the Middle East and find a faction more suited for their values.
@TNP777@dallasactuary ... Nobody in this thread is saying that freedom of speech should be monitored or controlled, if Kap wanted to publicly speak out about the unjust treatment of minority’s outside of national TV on his own time nobody would give a crap, I’d say he would still be in the NFL too but he was not that good anymore so maybe that’s irrelevant. Instead of just speaking out he chooses to use the American Flag as a symbol of oppression? Aggression? Hatred? To insinuate that an entire country is a problem is moronic and idiotic. That would be relevant to a white guy getting jumped by a few Black guys and getting beat up and robbed then hating ALL Blacks because of it! I’ve already stated that Military/LE is the most diverse venue in the nations and he disrespects and hates on both organizations by kneeling on national TV and wearing pig socks? On top of it this scumbag gets masses of idiots to follow suit like moths to the flame and the agenda filled media highlights it all, and he makes money off it which is absurdly gross. Make no mistake about it, Nike don’t give a crap about him or “His” people all they care about is capitalizing on the idiots that blindly follow his lead.
I agree Paul. Everyone out here should go read the 1st Amendment. I've pointed this out here before to no avail. But somebody please show me in the 1st Amendment where it is OK to burn the Flag. PLEASE!!!!
Until or unless Texas v Johnson is overturned by a future SCOTUS, flag burning is Consititionally-protected free speech.
I personally find it extremely distastefully and would not have a problem with it being overturned, but right now it’s lawful.
There LOTS of things that weren’t written in the original language of our Constitution and various amendments that have been ruled legal by SCOTUS. We don’t have a problem with most of those, including the right’s passionate defense of 2A.
eta: it was a 5-4 decision, with 3 of the 5 Justices being nominated by Nixon (Blackmun) and Reagan (Scalia and Kennedy). So, not a liberal court’s decision.
@TNP777 said:
Until or unless Texas v Johnson is overturned by a future SCOTUS, flag burning is Consititionally-protected free speech.
I personally find it extremely distastefully and would not have a problem with it being overturned, but right now it’s lawful.
There LOTS of things that weren’t written in the original language of our Constitution and various amendments that have been ruled legal by SCOTUS. We don’t have a problem with most of those, including the right’s passionate defense of 2A.
I understand and respect your passion, Jon, but it most definitely is free speech. Should you come upon someone burning the Flag in a protest and proceed to beat that person half to death, you would be prosecuted under federal and state law.
Regardless of how distasteful and disrespectful Flag burning may be, I still think it is a symbol, albeit a sacred one, of this nation’s great freedoms and rights. I’m far more concerned about those than I am whether a Flag is desecrated or not. That shouldn’t be interpreted as me not having respect for the Flag and love for our country, but I suspect it will anyway.
@perkdog said:
Nobody in this thread is saying that freedom of speech should be monitored or controlled,
My apologies if I implied otherwise; that was not my intent. But there are currently candidates for President who are explicitly calling for restrictions on what people can say, with criminal penalties for those who commit wrong-speak. And there are woke warriors all over the place who support that position 100%. And it is these fascists who represent a clear and present danger to our status as a free country, and it was these people to whom I was referring.
But, while the assault on free speech is almost entirely coming from the political left, they do not have a monopoly. I find burning American flags as repugnant as anyone, but it is protected speech. Dimeman, you ask where in the first amendment does it say flag-burning is protected, but this is to miss the point of the entire Constitution. The Constitution doesn't say flag burning is prohibited, therefore it is allowed. When this same issue came up a generation ago everyone understood that in order to prohibit flag burning the Constitution would need to be amended. The drive for such an amendment failed then, but the principle still holds: amend the Constitution to prohibit flag burning, or suck it up, buttercup.
It is worth noting that the 1st amendment doesn't mention newspapers, radio, or television, either; it mentions "the press". Likewise, it does not mention flag burning, KKK parades, or anything else other than "speech". In both cases, though, it is obvious from both the text and history of the Constitution that this was intentional; they meant ALL of the press, and ALL speech. Finally, please consider that there would be no need nor purpose to the first amendment if it excluded things that people find offensive; what offends nobody does not require protection. It was precisely speech that would be certain to offend people that the framers had in mind when they made free speech a Constitutional guarantee.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
@dallasactuary thanks for clarifying. @Geordie I know you are correct as far as you reciting the law concerning the flag, the bigger argument is the support this scumbag gets, that’s the part that is lost on me.
So let me get this straight.......because the framers of the Constitution did not put the statement in that Flag burning was not allowed.....that makes it OK!!!!! O M G !!!! @dallasactuary you should have been a scumbag lawyer! So that is your loop hole.
I guess that is why they put the sticker on metal ladders "do not lean against high voltage wires!
@DIMEMAN said:
So let me get this straight.......because the framers of the Constitution did not put the statement in that Flag burning was not allowed.....that makes it OK!!!!! O M G !!!! @dallasactuary you should have been a scumbag lawyer! So that is your loop hole.
It distresses me that any American doesn't understand the Constitution, but yes, the 1st amendment guarantees free speech, and it makes no exceptions. If it were possible for the government to carve out exceptions, without amending the Constitution, then the 1st amendment would be completely meaningless. If they are allowed to carve out an exception for flag burning, then what are they NOT allowed to make an exception for? The answer is obviously "nothing", but if you do have an answer then you'll need to explain what in the Constitution allows an exception for flag burning but not for whatever your answer is.
I guess that is why they put the sticker on metal ladders "do not lean against high voltage wires!
Give me a FREAKING BREAK!!
Please tell me that you know that this example is 100% unrelated to the Constitution.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
@DIMEMAN said:
So let me get this straight.......because the framers of the Constitution did not put the statement in that Flag burning was not allowed.....that makes it OK!!!!! O M G !!!! @dallasactuary you should have been a scumbag lawyer! So that is your loop hole.
I guess that is why they put the sticker on metal ladders "do not lean against high voltage wires!
Give me a FREAKING BREAK!!
Stickers are on ladders so that companies don't get sued because stupid people don't have common sense. That's not remotely the same thing as a free speech issue.
The framers didn't put an awful lot of things in the Constitution or its Amendments because they wanted the Government to have limited input on how we run our day-to-day lives. Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, right to assemble, right to keep and bear arms, right to drink adult beverages (yay, 21st Amendment, boo 18th Amendment!), etc. They also had the foresight to know that issues/challenges would arise that the Constitution wouldn't specifically address by establishing SCOTUS in 1789 (Article 3 of the Constitution), granting the Supreme Court ultimate jurisdiction over all laws, especially those in which their constitutionality was at issue.
Jon, I applaud your passionate defense of the Flag, but again I think you place far more importance in a piece of cloth, rather than the rights and freedoms that cloth represents. By wanting to abolish Flag burning/desecration, you're actually asking for a loophole to exist, rather than accusing those who like our Constitutionally-protected freedoms of exploiting a loophole. No such loophole exists or is intended to exist.
@TNP777 - Freedom of Speech is not what is on trial here. I am for FOS as much as anybody. It's the fact that some of you are say Flag burning is OK because it does not say you can't in the Constitution. That is what is completely asinine! Go read the 1st Amendment...please....and tell me where in there you get the idea that it is OK to burn the Flag!!! PLEASE!!!!
You link is no good.....takes me nowhere. What is your point???
Yeah...the image of your dirtbag Cowboys staring down at the ground during the anthem is not coming up...I'll work on it some more. At least the Cowgirls have a bit of respect for the nation in which they live.
And the counter to your question, Jon, is this: tell me where you get the idea that it is NOT okay to burn the flag.
Here is the full text of the 1st Amendment to the United States Constitution:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
45 words total, covering religion, free speech, free press, right to peaceably assemble, and petition the government. Were we to list all the do's and don't's of all of those hugely important things, the provisions would encompass untold volumes of text.
The question is this, and it's an entirely sincere one: do you want the government to intrude in all aspects of our lives? There's already the thought that it intrudes far too much. Where is the line drawn on free speech? Because if you ban desecration of the Flag, you can bet that there will be thousands upon thousands of challenges to other freedoms that are protected under 1A.
Regarding the constitution and “Free Speech” I am hoping that there can be some way to implement statues on it. I spent 20 Years in LE as some of you know and I will point out that regarding “Free Speech” it was irrelevant to me and my colleagues, reason why is we were considered “Held to a higher standard” meaning I could NOT speak free without repercussions. Now since I was not brought up in a racist household nor is the “N” word part of my vocabulary it was easy for me to abide by the rules set before me, for others it was not and I saw 2 people fired for challenging their right to “Freedom of Speech” my point is that I’m surprised SCOTUS has not implemented a “Higher Standard” for the Flag such as Burning it or disrespectful demonstrations towards it. I’m Pro 2A and that gets dissected and pushed to the limit all the time, if they can do it to gun owners they should do it to Flag burners and kneelers the way I see it.
The Cowboys didn't kneel because Jerruh made it plain that anyone who kneeled faced possible benching/release. Dunno if that would have held up, though, as the NFLPA is pretty strong.
At any rate, no Cowboy kneeled. The only exception to that is when the entire team kneeled, Jerruh included, before the Anthem was played.
Nets are coming, cupcake. You won't have to worry about them, of course, since I believe you have stated that you haven't been to a MLB game in forever and have no plans to attend one. You're like the guy who bitches about laws and politicians and such, but then says he doesn't vote.
@DIMEMAN said: @TNP777 - Freedom of Speech is not what is on trial here. I am for FOS as much as anybody. It's the fact that some of you are say Flag burning is OK because it does not say you can't in the Constitution. That is what is completely asinine! Go read the 1st Amendment...please....and tell me where in there you get the idea that it is OK to burn the Flag!!! PLEASE!!!!
I know it's not just a CU thing, but it is distressingly common here to avoid responding to direct questions when the answers to those questions would actually advance the conversation.
I'll try again. You want the government to create an exception/loophole to freedom of speech that does not allow flag burning. Presumably, you believe the government has the legal authority to do that through some process. Using that same process, what exceptions/loopholes to freedom of speech do you believe the government does NOT have the power to create? Why do you believe they have the power to create some exceptions, but not others?
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
You link is no good.....takes me nowhere. What is your point???
Yeah...the image of your dirtbag Cowboys staring down at the ground during the anthem is not coming up...I'll work on it some more. At least the Cowgirls have a bit of respect for the nation in which they live.
I have no problem with bowing of heads.......much better than looking around.
And if a Cowboy disrespected the Flag or NA I would be just as much against them as I am of K-Crap.
@tnp777 One of the key words in the 1A is "peaceably". And like Paul pointed out some speech is off limits....and should be.
Yours or my statements should not be at someone else's expense. And no I don't want more government control...I want less. As I said before hopefully Trump will take care of the Flag burning issue....since some don't quite know how to look at things. Like shooting Eagles for instance.
@DIMEMAN said: @TNP777 - Freedom of Speech is not what is on trial here. I am for FOS as much as anybody. It's the fact that some of you are say Flag burning is OK because it does not say you can't in the Constitution. That is what is completely asinine! Go read the 1st Amendment...please....and tell me where in there you get the idea that it is OK to burn the Flag!!! PLEASE!!!!
Can you show me where in the 1st Amendment it says it's OK to publish cat photos on Facebook?
@DIMEMAN said: @TNP777 - Freedom of Speech is not what is on trial here. I am for FOS as much as anybody. It's the fact that some of you are say Flag burning is OK because it does not say you can't in the Constitution. That is what is completely asinine! Go read the 1st Amendment...please....and tell me where in there you get the idea that it is OK to burn the Flag!!! PLEASE!!!!
I know it's not just a CU thing, but it is distressingly common here to avoid responding to direct questions when the answers to those questions would actually advance the conversation.
I'll try again. You want the government to create an exception/loophole to freedom of speech that does not allow flag burning. Presumably, you believe the government has the legal authority to do that through some process. Using that same process, what exceptions/loopholes to freedom of speech do you believe the government does NOT have the power to create? Why do you believe they have the power to create some exceptions, but not others?
This is the problem. People who say it is OK to burn the Flag are the ones with the loophole. Burning the Flag has nothing to do with SPEECH.
Ah, but Paul didn't point out that some speech is off limits, at least not as it concerns 1A. What he said is that one may exercise his right to free speech, but that doesn't shield one from the consequences of exercising said right. Almost all states have "at-will" employment laws, meaning one can be fired without or without cause. If I go out and call someone a (insert racially insensitive word), I can be fired. Yes, I exercised my right to free speech, but my dumb ass still got legally fired. I'm not gonna go to jail, but I there's a good chance I'm going to the unemployment office.
The question again is, where do we draw that line? You want to ban desecration of the Flag and shooting Eagles (which is already illegal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bald_and_Golden_Eagle_Protection_Act). Drawn to it's logical and inevitable conclusion, it will lead to average Joes like us having no rights whatsoever, because any good idea always leads to it being perverted by people who twist it to suit their own ends.
@DIMEMAN said: @TNP777 - Freedom of Speech is not what is on trial here. I am for FOS as much as anybody. It's the fact that some of you are say Flag burning is OK because it does not say you can't in the Constitution. That is what is completely asinine! Go read the 1st Amendment...please....and tell me where in there you get the idea that it is OK to burn the Flag!!! PLEASE!!!!
Can you show me where in the 1st Amendment it says it's OK to publish cat photos on Facebook?
Totally off subject. What does Cats and Facebook have to do with Free Speech??!!
Comments
Because I am highly skeptical by nature. And the lack of results from a Google search - such a quote would surely generate much coverage - would seem to indicate my skepticism was well-placed.
The only match from the image you posted is an opinion piece where "worst country in the world" comes from the author of the piece itself not Kaepernick.
I posted it again, read it any way you want I don’t care either way I was just helping Jon out with what I found. I already said I couldn’t open the link and cannot confirm either way
Maybe, but Google is known to bury information that is not in their best interest.
And your out of context quoting of what I wrote fits the opinions of an increasing number of Americans who think they are “entitled” to something rather than for the. opportunity to work for what they want without any guarantees.
You think you’re guaranteed an outcome in life as an entitlement? If your answer is yes, the hell with you.
My wife just went out on Amazon to order the Betsy Ross Flag! They are swamped with orders, but we will be getting one and flying it soon!
K-Crap is making a lot of enemy's and rightfully so. My wife can't stand him and wishes him well in another Country like Iran. And yes she has a mind of her own and is very patriotic and can't stand those who are not!
When it comes to this country's flag, you don't screw around. Too many people died for that flag. I think about Iwo Jima, the famous photo of the flag being raised atop Mount Suribachi. Do you realize what those men went through to raise that flag. Pure hell. The worse hell you can imagine.
That picture gives me chills and should give every American chills! And K-Crap has the nerve to crap on that!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't want to dispel the mysticism of our national symbol, but I still maintain that the people, rights, and freedoms our Flag represents is a helluva lot more important than the the actual Flag itself. That includes the Anthem, and any pageantry associated with either.
Pictures of Iwo Jima and Flag-draped coffins are inspiring and gut-wrenching, and yes, we need to remember and honor the sacrifice of those who fought so hard for this country, but imo too much emphasis is placed on our symbols rather than everything and everyone those symbols represent.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
It was the beginning of the Vietnam era and as a young kid i was at the drive-in movie with my parents. The recorded anthem was played and in the next car a soldier in uniform stepped out and stood facing the flag with his hand over his heart.
No one else that I could see did this, but the patriot one car over had skin in the game and loved his country.
You are wrong, TNP777. The flag is important and the symbolism of the flag is important. I am not one that suggests that Kap or half the NFL and two thirds of the NBA that despise this county be thrown out, but anyone that supports these vermin, regardless of how talented they are, are a bit wobbly as well.
I agree completely. Perhaps the greatest threat we face as a free people is the suppression of speech that is deemed "hate speech", or "offensive", or "micro-aggressions" or whatever the wokest of the woke have deemed unacceptable. People are getting fired, careers are being ruined, and people are even being threatened with prosecution (and actually prosecuted in other countries) for expressing opinions. If it doesn't end quickly, it will not end well.
It makes me sick and want to puke when I hear the things that some people want to include in the 1st amendment!
True dat, but it is only as long as we can all agree that what we personally find offensive is irrelevant that we can survive as a free people. Somebody somewhere is offended by pretty much everything; the 1st amendment says "suck it up, buttercup". We already ignore too much of what the Constitution says, we should not ignore this.
CK was a normal person, a professional football player until he met his Muslim girlfriend. After she filled his head with anti American BS CK was convinced that America values were wrong. His oppression was being raised by two white parents in a middle class home. The police shooting were because suspects refused to obey simple commands. What CK really was kneeling for was his hatred of America. It now become apparent that he would be opposed to anything America and our values. I suggest he takes his America hating girlfriend and travel to the Middle East and find a faction more suited for their values.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I agree Paul. Everyone out here should go read the 1st Amendment. I've pointed this out here before to no avail. But somebody please show me in the 1st Amendment where it is OK to burn the Flag. PLEASE!!!!
Until or unless Texas v Johnson is overturned by a future SCOTUS, flag burning is Consititionally-protected free speech.
I personally find it extremely distastefully and would not have a problem with it being overturned, but right now it’s lawful.
There LOTS of things that weren’t written in the original language of our Constitution and various amendments that have been ruled legal by SCOTUS. We don’t have a problem with most of those, including the right’s passionate defense of 2A.
Oops. Meant to post the link.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson
eta: it was a 5-4 decision, with 3 of the 5 Justices being nominated by Nixon (Blackmun) and Reagan (Scalia and Kennedy). So, not a liberal court’s decision.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
Trump is trying to fix that gawd awful ruling! Burning the flag is NOT key word NOT free speech!!!!!
I understand and respect your passion, Jon, but it most definitely is free speech. Should you come upon someone burning the Flag in a protest and proceed to beat that person half to death, you would be prosecuted under federal and state law.
Regardless of how distasteful and disrespectful Flag burning may be, I still think it is a symbol, albeit a sacred one, of this nation’s great freedoms and rights. I’m far more concerned about those than I am whether a Flag is desecrated or not. That shouldn’t be interpreted as me not having respect for the Flag and love for our country, but I suspect it will anyway.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
If I ever see anyone burning the Flag........I will be on the news and he/she will be in the Hospital or worse!
But you tolerate Dallas players kneeling before the flag. Where is the magic line?
No I don't....because they don't.
Edited to add: When this all started Jones said as a Cowboy you will be on the field and standing for the NA or be suspended.
I have yet to see a Cowboy kneel.
My apologies if I implied otherwise; that was not my intent. But there are currently candidates for President who are explicitly calling for restrictions on what people can say, with criminal penalties for those who commit wrong-speak. And there are woke warriors all over the place who support that position 100%. And it is these fascists who represent a clear and present danger to our status as a free country, and it was these people to whom I was referring.
But, while the assault on free speech is almost entirely coming from the political left, they do not have a monopoly. I find burning American flags as repugnant as anyone, but it is protected speech. Dimeman, you ask where in the first amendment does it say flag-burning is protected, but this is to miss the point of the entire Constitution. The Constitution doesn't say flag burning is prohibited, therefore it is allowed. When this same issue came up a generation ago everyone understood that in order to prohibit flag burning the Constitution would need to be amended. The drive for such an amendment failed then, but the principle still holds: amend the Constitution to prohibit flag burning, or suck it up, buttercup.
It is worth noting that the 1st amendment doesn't mention newspapers, radio, or television, either; it mentions "the press". Likewise, it does not mention flag burning, KKK parades, or anything else other than "speech". In both cases, though, it is obvious from both the text and history of the Constitution that this was intentional; they meant ALL of the press, and ALL speech. Finally, please consider that there would be no need nor purpose to the first amendment if it excluded things that people find offensive; what offends nobody does not require protection. It was precisely speech that would be certain to offend people that the framers had in mind when they made free speech a Constitutional guarantee.
I’m impressed, DS. That was very well presented all the way around.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
@dallasactuary thanks for clarifying. @Geordie I know you are correct as far as you reciting the law concerning the flag, the bigger argument is the support this scumbag gets, that’s the part that is lost on me.
So let me get this straight.......because the framers of the Constitution did not put the statement in that Flag burning was not allowed.....that makes it OK!!!!! O M G !!!! @dallasactuary you should have been a scumbag lawyer! So that is your loop hole.
I guess that is why they put the sticker on metal ladders "do not lean against high voltage wires!
Give me a FREAKING BREAK!!
It distresses me that any American doesn't understand the Constitution, but yes, the 1st amendment guarantees free speech, and it makes no exceptions. If it were possible for the government to carve out exceptions, without amending the Constitution, then the 1st amendment would be completely meaningless. If they are allowed to carve out an exception for flag burning, then what are they NOT allowed to make an exception for? The answer is obviously "nothing", but if you do have an answer then you'll need to explain what in the Constitution allows an exception for flag burning but not for whatever your answer is.
Please tell me that you know that this example is 100% unrelated to the Constitution.
Stickers are on ladders so that companies don't get sued because stupid people don't have common sense. That's not remotely the same thing as a free speech issue.
The framers didn't put an awful lot of things in the Constitution or its Amendments because they wanted the Government to have limited input on how we run our day-to-day lives. Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, right to assemble, right to keep and bear arms, right to drink adult beverages (yay, 21st Amendment, boo 18th Amendment!), etc. They also had the foresight to know that issues/challenges would arise that the Constitution wouldn't specifically address by establishing SCOTUS in 1789 (Article 3 of the Constitution), granting the Supreme Court ultimate jurisdiction over all laws, especially those in which their constitutionality was at issue.
Jon, I applaud your passionate defense of the Flag, but again I think you place far more importance in a piece of cloth, rather than the rights and freedoms that cloth represents. By wanting to abolish Flag burning/desecration, you're actually asking for a loophole to exist, rather than accusing those who like our Constitutionally-protected freedoms of exploiting a loophole. No such loophole exists or is intended to exist.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
My apologies. You are correct. The patriotism is overwhelming.
https://washingtonpost.com/resizer/QHQftc5J50P6NiHATGKHVMhHLAw=/960x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/SKVFRUF5KU2ZPIKKHTP4QXBX3I.jpg
@TNP777 - Freedom of Speech is not what is on trial here. I am for FOS as much as anybody. It's the fact that some of you are say Flag burning is OK because it does not say you can't in the Constitution. That is what is completely asinine! Go read the 1st Amendment...please....and tell me where in there you get the idea that it is OK to burn the Flag!!! PLEASE!!!!
You link is no good.....takes me nowhere. What is your point???
Yeah...the image of your dirtbag Cowboys staring down at the ground during the anthem is not coming up...I'll work on it some more. At least the Cowgirls have a bit of respect for the nation in which they live.
This link works.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiszd_4uajjAhWVvZ4KHSfgADYQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/10/08/jerry-jones-says-cowboys-players-who-disrespect-the-flag-wont-play/&psig=AOvVaw2jOT8y8o33LQagLBYSQoMC&ust=1562782835710138
And the counter to your question, Jon, is this: tell me where you get the idea that it is NOT okay to burn the flag.
Here is the full text of the 1st Amendment to the United States Constitution:
45 words total, covering religion, free speech, free press, right to peaceably assemble, and petition the government. Were we to list all the do's and don't's of all of those hugely important things, the provisions would encompass untold volumes of text.
The question is this, and it's an entirely sincere one: do you want the government to intrude in all aspects of our lives? There's already the thought that it intrudes far too much. Where is the line drawn on free speech? Because if you ban desecration of the Flag, you can bet that there will be thousands upon thousands of challenges to other freedoms that are protected under 1A.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
Regarding the constitution and “Free Speech” I am hoping that there can be some way to implement statues on it. I spent 20 Years in LE as some of you know and I will point out that regarding “Free Speech” it was irrelevant to me and my colleagues, reason why is we were considered “Held to a higher standard” meaning I could NOT speak free without repercussions. Now since I was not brought up in a racist household nor is the “N” word part of my vocabulary it was easy for me to abide by the rules set before me, for others it was not and I saw 2 people fired for challenging their right to “Freedom of Speech” my point is that I’m surprised SCOTUS has not implemented a “Higher Standard” for the Flag such as Burning it or disrespectful demonstrations towards it. I’m Pro 2A and that gets dissected and pushed to the limit all the time, if they can do it to gun owners they should do it to Flag burners and kneelers the way I see it.
The Cowboys didn't kneel because Jerruh made it plain that anyone who kneeled faced possible benching/release. Dunno if that would have held up, though, as the NFLPA is pretty strong.
At any rate, no Cowboy kneeled. The only exception to that is when the entire team kneeled, Jerruh included, before the Anthem was played.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
It is right after where it says that spineless imbeciles can ruin the game of baseball by demanding netting all around the stadium.
Ah, Glicker. Ever the clever one.
Nets are coming, cupcake. You won't have to worry about them, of course, since I believe you have stated that you haven't been to a MLB game in forever and have no plans to attend one. You're like the guy who bitches about laws and politicians and such, but then says he doesn't vote.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
I know it's not just a CU thing, but it is distressingly common here to avoid responding to direct questions when the answers to those questions would actually advance the conversation.
I'll try again. You want the government to create an exception/loophole to freedom of speech that does not allow flag burning. Presumably, you believe the government has the legal authority to do that through some process. Using that same process, what exceptions/loopholes to freedom of speech do you believe the government does NOT have the power to create? Why do you believe they have the power to create some exceptions, but not others?
I have no problem with bowing of heads.......much better than looking around.
And if a Cowboy disrespected the Flag or NA I would be just as much against them as I am of K-Crap.
So don't go there!!
Forced patriotism is not real patriotism, Herr Glick.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
@tnp777 One of the key words in the 1A is "peaceably". And like Paul pointed out some speech is off limits....and should be.
Yours or my statements should not be at someone else's expense. And no I don't want more government control...I want less. As I said before hopefully Trump will take care of the Flag burning issue....since some don't quite know how to look at things. Like shooting Eagles for instance.
Can you show me where in the 1st Amendment it says it's OK to publish cat photos on Facebook?
This is the problem. People who say it is OK to burn the Flag are the ones with the loophole. Burning the Flag has nothing to do with SPEECH.
Ah, but Paul didn't point out that some speech is off limits, at least not as it concerns 1A. What he said is that one may exercise his right to free speech, but that doesn't shield one from the consequences of exercising said right. Almost all states have "at-will" employment laws, meaning one can be fired without or without cause. If I go out and call someone a (insert racially insensitive word), I can be fired. Yes, I exercised my right to free speech, but my dumb ass still got legally fired. I'm not gonna go to jail, but I there's a good chance I'm going to the unemployment office.
The question again is, where do we draw that line? You want to ban desecration of the Flag and shooting Eagles (which is already illegal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bald_and_Golden_Eagle_Protection_Act). Drawn to it's logical and inevitable conclusion, it will lead to average Joes like us having no rights whatsoever, because any good idea always leads to it being perverted by people who twist it to suit their own ends.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
Can you please provide what you're using as a definition for the word "speech"?
Totally off subject. What does Cats and Facebook have to do with Free Speech??!!
Sure can......stuff that comes out of your mouth or put on paper!