Originally posted by: wondercoin OB: I think about $84k through 2015.
Wondercoin
Is that good or bad?
It depends. If you enjoyed collecting them the last ten years and now needed to sell them it could be win win.
Earlier in the post I mentioned that a set in 70 PCGS costs around $80,000 based on what I paid over the years. So maybe the seller did not make money, but also did not lose much, if anything, either.
I think there were several buyers picking which ones they wanted the most, and I believe some were able to get some nice low mintage FS coins at what will eventually be considered low prices, in my opinion.
No logic at all as to the price paid for the Roosevelt PR70 at over $4,000. For some unknown reason two people really wanted that coin and did not want to wait.
ChrisRX... I believe the consignor made money on the set due, in part, to the strong results of the top handful of coins in the collection. Remember, gold was at a range of about $600-$1,900 during the series run, which might average about where gold stands today. That might infer to me that the next 9 years could strongly outperform the first nine, which included buying the raw coins in the first place strongly above the current melt values per the US Mint grid. But, let's face it, if gold performs poorly over the next 9 years, I personally can't expect the coins to do all that well either (and vice versa).
The "base value" of the melt value of the 40 ozs of gold in the set is still obviously very attractive to many collectors of the series.
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Now That The Series Is Just About "Closed", Does Anyone Want To Talk About Gold Spouse Coins
NO!
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
Originally posted by: wondercoin ChrisRX... I believe the consignor made money on the set due, in part, to the strong results of the top handful of coins in the collection. Remember, gold was at a range of about $600-$1,900 during the series run, which might average about where gold stands today. That might infer to me that the next 9 years could strongly outperform the first nine, which included buying the raw coins in the first place strongly above the current melt values per the US Mint grid. But, let's face it, if gold performs poorly over the next 9 years, I personally can't expect the coins to do all that well either (and vice versa).
The "base value" of the melt value of the 40 ozs of gold in the set is still obviously very attractive to many collectors of the series.
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
If you say so, official WTF and go back to lawyering. MHO.
Makes little sense, PCGS shows your pic as an expert.
Originally posted by: wondercoin ChrisRX... I believe the consignor made money on the set due, in part, to the strong results of the top handful of coins in the collection. Remember, gold was at a range of about $600-$1,900 during the series run, which might average about where gold stands today. That might infer to me that the next 9 years could strongly outperform the first nine, which included buying the raw coins in the first place strongly above the current melt values per the US Mint grid. But, let's face it, if gold performs poorly over the next 9 years, I personally can't expect the coins to do all that well either (and vice versa).
The "base value" of the melt value of the 40 ozs of gold in the set is still obviously very attractive to many collectors of the series.
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
If you say so, official WTF and go back to lawyering. MHO.
Makes little sense, PCGS shows your pic as an expert.
Time to evaluate, crazy, not buying again.
MHO.
This is an example of the passion, in both directions, that this series encourages with the drive or desire towards profit rather than collectibility due to beauty.
Originally posted by: jmski52 How many bona fide collectors are there of this set? Including PCGS, NGC and ungraded coins, what is the best guestimate?
Probably a few dozen of the entire series. Possibly several thousand of specific coins or subsets, such as the four "Liberty" coins.
Originally posted by: jmski52 How many bona fide collectors are there of this set? Including PCGS, NGC and ungraded coins, what is the best guestimate?
I think the best way to gauge that is the mint sales, and they are under 2000 for unc and under 2500 for proof.
While that is somewhat expected (there is a reason that the mintages keep dropping and many still avail at the mint), it does reflect something. First strike really did not add value to 95% of the coins in the full set. Only 3 coins really showed a premium. It is also worth noting that PR realized higher prices than MS. While also somewhat expected, I was thinking some of the lower MS mintage coins would bring a bit stronger $$.
I am not sure the 95% is the right number until we see what non-FS coins will fetch in a similar auction setting. For example, wouldn't you agree that the (4) 2008 Liberty subset coins are worth a good bit less without FS than what they sold for at this auction?
Yes, indeed, three FS coins did just fine and one of them fabulously well (way beyond anyone's reasonable expectations).
I agree that the proof coins shined compared to the Mint State counterparts.
Just my two cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I couldn't afford all the gold so collected the entire set through the Presidential Coin First Spouse Medal Sets. There are some price pressures on a few of these medal sets like this one
The unc. 1997 Jackie Robinson gold (mintage 5174) is now going for under $1000. It was about $4400 at its peak.
These things do go in cycles. Jackie Robinson wasn't that popular when it was being offered by the Mint, then the low mintage became a factor and it became the Key. Now that low mintages for Gold Commems are more commonplace, the market is adjusting to the new reality.
The more common Modern Gold Commems have become competitive as generic bullion, and I see the same tendency in the more common Gold Spouses, especially in raw and 69 grades.
I don't view either of these phenomena as a bad thing. It gives would-be collectors and new collectors a 2nd chance to take a stab at a set. My own opinion - when the precious metals markets make another run, whether it be in 1 year or 10 years, new collectors will enter the market and the Gold Spouses will benefit in all grades.
For every 5 bullion speculators, 1 of them will turn into new collector who sticks his toe in the pond and likes it. And for every $500 rise in the price of gold, more of the Gold Spouses will disappear into collections, and also into the melting pot. Nobody will notice until they are gone.
It's only a matter of time.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Comments
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
Wondercoin
OB: I think about $84k through 2015.
Wondercoin
Is that good or bad?
OB: I think about $84k through 2015.
Wondercoin
Is that good or bad?
It depends. If you enjoyed collecting them the last ten years and now needed to sell them it could be win win.
Earlier in the post I mentioned that a set in 70 PCGS costs around $80,000 based on what I paid over the years. So maybe the seller did not make money, but also did not lose much, if anything, either.
I think there were several buyers picking which ones they wanted the most, and I believe some were able to get some nice low mintage FS coins at what will eventually be considered low prices, in my opinion.
No logic at all as to the price paid for the Roosevelt PR70 at over $4,000. For some unknown reason two people really wanted that coin and did not want to wait.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
That would help define the success.
The "base value" of the melt value of the 40 ozs of gold in the set is still obviously very attractive to many collectors of the series.
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
NO!
Wondercoin
ChrisRX... I believe the consignor made money on the set due, in part, to the strong results of the top handful of coins in the collection. Remember, gold was at a range of about $600-$1,900 during the series run, which might average about where gold stands today. That might infer to me that the next 9 years could strongly outperform the first nine, which included buying the raw coins in the first place strongly above the current melt values per the US Mint grid. But, let's face it, if gold performs poorly over the next 9 years, I personally can't expect the coins to do all that well either (and vice versa).
The "base value" of the melt value of the 40 ozs of gold in the set is still obviously very attractive to many collectors of the series.
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
If you say so, official WTF and go back to lawyering. MHO.
Makes little sense, PCGS shows your pic as an expert.
Time to evaluate, crazy, not buying again.
MHO.
ChrisRX... I believe the consignor made money on the set due, in part, to the strong results of the top handful of coins in the collection. Remember, gold was at a range of about $600-$1,900 during the series run, which might average about where gold stands today. That might infer to me that the next 9 years could strongly outperform the first nine, which included buying the raw coins in the first place strongly above the current melt values per the US Mint grid. But, let's face it, if gold performs poorly over the next 9 years, I personally can't expect the coins to do all that well either (and vice versa).
The "base value" of the melt value of the 40 ozs of gold in the set is still obviously very attractive to many collectors of the series.
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
If you say so, official WTF and go back to lawyering. MHO.
Makes little sense, PCGS shows your pic as an expert.
Time to evaluate, crazy, not buying again.
MHO.
This is an example of the passion, in both directions, that this series encourages with the drive or desire towards profit rather than collectibility due to beauty.
I knew it would happen.
How many bona fide collectors are there of this set? Including PCGS, NGC and ungraded coins, what is the best guestimate?
Probably a few dozen of the entire series. Possibly several thousand of specific coins or subsets, such as the four "Liberty" coins.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
How many bona fide collectors are there of this set? Including PCGS, NGC and ungraded coins, what is the best guestimate?
I think the best way to gauge that is the mint sales, and they are under 2000 for unc and under 2500 for proof.
Flippers have given up on this series. I wonder how many collectors are overseas?
They had to. They are done with new issues and the new issues don't sell out, hence the low mintages.
OB: I think about $84k through 2015.
Wondercoin
While that is somewhat expected (there is a reason that the mintages keep dropping and many still avail at the mint), it does reflect something. First strike really did not add value to 95% of the coins in the full set. Only 3 coins really showed a premium. It is also worth noting that PR realized higher prices than MS. While also somewhat expected, I was thinking some of the lower MS mintage coins would bring a bit stronger $$.
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
I am not sure the 95% is the right number until we see what non-FS coins will fetch in a similar auction setting. For example, wouldn't you agree that the (4) 2008 Liberty subset coins are worth a good bit less without FS than what they sold for at this auction?
Yes, indeed, three FS coins did just fine and one of them fabulously well (way beyond anyone's reasonable expectations).
I agree that the proof coins shined compared to the Mint State counterparts.
Just my two cents.
Wondercoin
Hoover
Looks like a bidding war between two people.
2sAAOSwqfNXkkcP">Roosevelt
Box of 20
It seems Low mintages doesn't mean much with low interest with this series now complete.
2 words: Jackie Robinson.
It seems Low mintages doesn't mean much with low interest with this series now complete.
2 words: Jackie Robinson.
The unc. 1997 Jackie Robinson gold (mintage 5174) is now going for under $1000. It was about $4400 at its peak.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
These things do go in cycles. Jackie Robinson wasn't that popular when it was being offered by the Mint, then the low mintage became a factor and it became the Key. Now that low mintages for Gold Commems are more commonplace, the market is adjusting to the new reality.
The more common Modern Gold Commems have become competitive as generic bullion, and I see the same tendency in the more common Gold Spouses, especially in raw and 69 grades.
I don't view either of these phenomena as a bad thing. It gives would-be collectors and new collectors a 2nd chance to take a stab at a set. My own opinion - when the precious metals markets make another run, whether it be in 1 year or 10 years, new collectors will enter the market and the Gold Spouses will benefit in all grades.
For every 5 bullion speculators, 1 of them will turn into new collector who sticks his toe in the pond and likes it. And for every $500 rise in the price of gold, more of the Gold Spouses will disappear into collections, and also into the melting pot. Nobody will notice until they are gone.
It's only a matter of time.
I knew it would happen.
Does anyone have the final mintages?
I knew it would happen.
This is what I have...
AUDITED:
2007 Martha Washington
Proof 19,167
Unc 17,661
2007 Abigail Adams
Proof 17,149
Unc 17,142
2007 Thomas Jefferson’s Liberty
Proof 19,815
Unc 19,823
2007 Dolley Madison
Proof 17,943
Unc 12,340
2008 Elizabeth Monroe
Proof 7,800
Unc 4,462
2008 Louisa Adams
Proof 6,581
Unc 3,885
2008 Andrew Jackson’s Liberty
Proof 7,684
Unc 4,609
2008 Martin Van Buren’s Liberty
Proof 6,807
Unc 3,826
2009 Anna Harrison
Proof 6,251
Unc 3,645
2009 Letitia Tyler
Proof 5,296
Unc 3,240
2009 Julia Tyler
Proof 4,844
Unc 3,143
2009 Sarah Polk
Proof 5,151
Unc 3,489
2009 Margaret Taylor
Proof 4,936
Unc 3,627
2010 Abigail Fillmore
Proof 6,130
Unc 3,482
2010 Jane Pierce
Proof 4,775
Unc 3,338
2010 James Buchanan’s Liberty
Proof 7,110
Unc 5,162
2010 Mary Todd Lincoln
Proof 6,861
Unc 3,695
2011 Eliza Johnson
Proof 3,887
Unc 2,905
2011 Julia Grant
Proof 3,943
Unc 2,892
2011 Lucy Hayes
Proof 3,868
Unc 2,196
2011 Lucretia Garfield
Proof 3,653
Unc 2,168
NOT AUDITED:
2012 Alice Paul
Proof 3,505
Unc 2,798
2012 Frances Cleveland 1st
Proof 3,158
Unc 2,454
2012 Caroline Harrison
Proof 3,046
Unc 2,436
2012 Frances Cleveland 2nd
Proof 3,104
Unc 2,425
2013 Edith Wilson
Proof 2,464
Unc 1,974
2013 Elllen Wilson
Proof 2,511
Unc 1,980
2013 Helen Taft
Proof 2,598
Unc 1,993
2013 Ida McKinley
Proof 2,724
Unc 2,008
2013 Edith Roosevelt
Proof 2,840
Unc 2,027
2014 Eleanor Roosevelt
Proof 2,377
Unc 1,886
2014 Grace Coolidge
Proof 2,315
Unc 1,949
2014 Florence Harding
Proof 2,372
Unc 1,944
2014 Lou Hoover
Proof 2,392
Unc 1,936
2015 Bess Truman
Proof 2,747
Unc 1,946
2015 Mamie Eisenhower
Proof 2,704
Unc 2,102
2015 Jackie Kennedy
Proof 11,222
Unc 6,771
2015 Lady Bird Johnson
Proof 2,653
Unc 1,927
2016 Patricia Nixon
Proof 2,645
Unc 1,839
2016 Betty Ford
Proof 2,471
Unc 1,824
2016 Nancy Reagan
Proof 3,548
Unc 2,009
@cagcrisp - thanks! Those look like most of the same numbers that I have, but I will do a comparison tonight.
I knew it would happen.
Just to clarify, we are looking at a low of 1824 on the Unc Ford as the low? And 2315 on the PR Coolidge as the low?
When do we typically see audited numbers?
Really fascinating to see the drop off in demand for these and when new ones are made Im curious what the demand will look like.
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I only have one but I like pictures....
Here is a link to a set with them.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/bullion-coins/gold-major-sets/first-spouse-10-gold-circulation-strikes-proof-2007-2016/publishedset/92415
My Saint Set
I've had a couple of dozen of these, PR and MS, in the last 6 months. I scrapped them all as bullion.
it’s hard to believe this program is still going. We will have a Barbara Bush coin before too long.