"My long term view is that the First Spouse coins will be the gold equivalent to three cent nickels in terms of collector interest."
I've personally placed a very "big bet" that you will be proven wrong in that comparison. The fact is that a number of the gold spouse coins have the lowest Type coin populations in the past 100 years at the mint. I compare the series closer to $3 Classic Gold than 3C Nickels. Like these spouse gold coins, the $3 Classic Gold coins were never popular with the general public at the time of their release. I believe it took a few decades to start things rolling.
We'll see. I love the fact that when and if Gold hits $2,000/oz, my collection of these Gold Spouse coins enjoys a 50% base increase in value without even considering how the 70 grade has fared, if the low population coins have taken off in value, how the FS coins are performing or even if the autographed versions have attracted any special collector interest. Those are all the "wild cards" in the game. I like "games" where there are two or three ways to win as opposed to just one.
As always, just my two cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Originally posted by: wondercoin I compare the series closer to $3 Classic Gold than 3C Nickels. Like these spouse gold coins, the $3 Classic Gold coins were never popular with the general public at the time of their release. I believe it took a few decades to start things rolling.
Wondercoin
I was going to post that the $3 Gold coins had a purpose. To buy a roll of 100 3c stamps.
This chat is about coins, right ? I think they'd look good in a Capital holder as a complete set. Barring the "incompleteness" ... , of course. (Maybe Dan Carr could fix this) Not trying to knock labels or advertise others' wares. It's a great hobby; however with that said, the coins present well, no matter what they're held in. It helps especially that they're gold . A nice little retirement nest egg in the hobby.
Regarding the melting of the 2007 coins by Silvertowne, having a rough familiarity of how they were operating at the time (being a regular visitor to their shop, going into their vault, chatting them up, seeing them at local shows, checking up on their inventory of moderns, etc.) I do feel that the 10,000 figure they gave to CoinWorld, is most likely a wild approximation and I don't see how they could have anything like that number go through their business in a years time.
Toning -- ugly toning--- on these gold spouse coins in holders in my experience, is a huge issue, which is why I would not play the label game here.
I gave up keeping up on the series in 2011, however I've laid up so many duplicates, quadruplicates, etc. of the more desireable ones that maybe I have a chance to trade my way into a complete unc. set one day.
I really liked these coins but unfortunately got priced out once the got beyond a grand apiece.(And the flipping ended) I have the first 3 years of coins in raw and graded believe it or not (Flipping money paid for most of them) and bought a few of the middle of the series graded off eBay as I could afford. One thing I would like to say that i did not see mentioned is the fact they stopped making the display cases that hold four coins right off the bat..I loved having them and bought some when i found them on ebay but have not seen any for a long time. I have 4 and like them for easy access when i want to look at them (raw examples)and to keep them organized by year..Little things like that (A different box for each years coins maybe in different colors or with the names on the box )would be a nice touch and just make collecting the coins more enjoyable. Mike M
dpoole, while I made the original "disparaging" remark concerning the 3CN, I actually love those coins. My aunt gave me one she got from circulation in the 30s. She would be 102 if alive today. The coin is probably VF/XF, but it matters not as it will always be special to me.
While the 3CNs do not get a lot of love, you can get a LOT of coin for your money. That said, their value remains mostly constant for the reasons stated earlier.
I still believe the value of many of the First Spouse coins is still highly correlated with the value of gold. Look in a year and see where melt for gold is. I am closer to 1000 than 2000. Yes, there are quite of few of low mintage, but how many people will shell out the money for a complete set. A few to to be certain, but not a great number. If I were investing, I would buy the ones without a spouse on the obverse. IMHO a much nicer, smaller set that avoids having to buy many that are essentially bullion coins.
Time will tell, I appreciate Wondercoin keeping this issue in front of the collecting community! It makes for excellent discourse and exchange of ideas.
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
Interestingly, Heritage selected the "Modern Commemorative" section to place the nearly 70-80 different spouse gold coins in the collection as opposed to the "Modern Bullion" section. For registry purposes, the coins are found in the bullion section at PCGS.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I still believe the value of many of the First Spouse coins is still highly correlated with the value of gold. Look in a year and see where melt for gold is. I am closer to 1000 than 2000. Yes, there are quite of few of low mintage, but how many people will shell out the money for a complete set. A few to to be certain, but not a great number. If I were investing, I would buy the ones without a spouse on the obverse. IMHO a much nicer, smaller set that avoids having to buy many that are essentially bullion coins.
Time will tell, I appreciate Wondercoin keeping this issue in front of the collecting community! It makes for excellent discourse and exchange of ideas.
I think that now that the collector does not have to keep up with 4 or 5 coins coming out each year. There will be people that have some coins, trying to fill the gaps. Also many of the first strike holders are going to be hard to get, especially going back to 2008 and 2009. I know some don`t care about First strike, but many do. If the handful of Spouses you already have are first strike labels, your probably going to want your hole set to be First Strike! The last time I looked, a set of Proofs were limited to Margaret Taylor. I think only 74 possible first strike sets. The uncirculated were limited to Letitia Tyler only 94 Possible sets with first strike!
Originally posted by: CoinMaster1229 The last time I looked, a set of Proofs were limited to Margaret Taylor. I think only 74 possible first strike sets. The uncirculated were limited to Letitia Tyler only 94 Possible sets with first strike!
I count 367 proof Margaret Taylor and 225 unc. Letitia Tyler first strikes. I like the flag labels, and MS/PR69 first strikes can be purchased for about the same price as coins with the regular labels.
Overdate... I am not sure what you mean when you say that you count 367 proof MT first strike? Are you talking about placing a lesser grade coin in a 70 grade FS set?
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Good thread! This is a very daunting set to start collecting. I started in the beginning with the intent to buy 1 of each (Unc/Proof), which I succeeded in doing, although some years it got very tough to do so. Through 2012 I was foolish, and I bought from the mint and submitted myself to PCGS for grading. Sometimes I got lucky but I ran a pretty poor 70 vs 69 percentage. Finally around 2012-2013 I realized that it was cheaper and simpler to just buy 70's from a reseller. I'm kicking myself for not doing that sooner. Now I'm contemplating upgrading the 69's and whether it's worth it or not. But I am relieved that I don't have to budget to buy 8-10 1/2oz gold coins every year.
BTW, you keep saying the set is closed, but is it? When the next current or former president dies, don't you think they'll extend the issue?
Originally posted by: CoinMaster1229 The last time I looked, a set of Proofs were limited to Margaret Taylor. I think only 74 possible first strike sets. The uncirculated were limited to Letitia Tyler only 94 Possible sets with first strike!
I count 367 proof Margaret Taylor and 225 unc. Letitia Tyler first strikes. I like the flag labels, and MS/PR69 first strikes can be purchased for about the same price as coins with the regular labels.
Yes as wonder coin stated, I was talking about PCGS MS/PR70 Sets! I should have been more clear.
Originally posted by: wondercoin Overdate... I am not sure what you mean when you say that you count 367 proof MT first strike? Are you talking about placing a lesser grade coin in a 70 grade FS set?
Wondercoin.
No, I was trying to say that those of us with lower budgets can still assemble nice First Strike sets in the MS/PR69 range. I got the feeling from some of the posts on this thread that First Strikes were considered to be of no importance in any grade less than 70.
Overdate. You are totally correct. In many cases, the 69 FS coins are available at nearly the price of a raw specimens. This creates quite the potential bargain down the road. Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I'm not sure there will ever be a lot of genuine collector interest. It's a massive set. The only reason I have a full set is because I decided that the only way I'd ever have one is if I collected from the beginning and bought as they were issued.
But I think there is great potential still.
I believe that there is a mega-bubble coming for coins, just like it did for real estate. It could be in a couple of years or it could be 50 years away, I don't know. But it will happen, everything happens in cycles. And when it does, these will catch fire due to rarity. Just like during the housing bubble "everyone" became a real estate agent and a real estate expert, the same will happen in the coin industry. Yes, you will go to a party and you'll pass by janitors and "hot chicks" discussing the merits of First Strike labels and Mercanti signatures. But guess what other attributes they will boast and promote? Yep, the ultra-low mintage figures of the spouse series.
If and when there is a coin-hype/bubble environment, these will really take off.
Originally posted by: ProofCollection I believe that there is a mega-bubble coming for coins, just like it did for real estate.
The mega-bubbles I recall were confined to certain areas of coin collecting - BU rolls in 1964, BU buffaloes/Mercs/Walkers in 1980 several months after the gold/silver peak (common date BU Walkers approaching $4000 per roll), and slabbed high-grade type/commems in 1989. I think coin collecting overall has become less popular since the last mega-bubble, making another one less likely. Too many other things vie for people's attention these days.
I was trying to say that those of us with lower budgets can still assemble nice First Strike sets in the MS/PR69 range. I got the feeling from some of the posts on this thread that First Strikes were considered to be of no importance in any grade less than 70.
In the case of First Spouse Gold, I don't even collect graded slabs. An archival 2x2 is fine by me. I'm within striking distance of a full set, but I see no compelling reason to buy anything more than a 69 grade when buying on the secondary market unless it's fairly close to melt, especially since it's probably going to be "liberated".
There are different flavor collectors, and my priorities don't include 70 or FS (in this series). People may not agree with me, but I've cracked out all of my "extra" collector bullion coins in 69 grade (including FS) and stored them (with the labels) in archival 2x2's.
A TPG label is only someone's paid opinion, and I've seen enough variability in grading to be fine with my own grading assessment. The FS designation is another thing entirely, especially in these low mintage issues.
I will be fairly curious to see how the prices stack up in this upcoming auction.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
What a fiasco with the Tyler ladies when the US Mint shut down sales on the later issued spouse first as I recall, which certainly contributed to the scarcity of the coin I believe. This was probably the first time the US Mint did something very "funky" with their spouse sales and foreshadowed many things to follow.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Based on my Heritage tracked lots it seems that about 10-15 people are interested in tracking these. I suspect there will be some more action in live bidding, as it appears that a lot of people are waiting till the last minute to show their hands as usual.
agree with you.. as the auction nears....the closet "i'm not a fan" of the spouse set will show themselves....there are some pretty rare moderns to be found!
It should get interesting in the next couple days. I have noticed a lot more bidding "at the last minute" than I usually see in this particular Heritage auction. Perhaps folks playing their cards close to their vest.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Originally posted by: wondercoin It should get interesting in the next couple days. I have noticed a lot more bidding "at the last minute" than I usually see in this particular Heritage auction. Perhaps folks playing their cards close to their vest.
Wondercoin
Yep, that's it. Have an interest in your post? Why I hate this forum, self serving, jack wagon posts. Put it on the BST.
My comment was in reply to Goldminers "self serving, jack wagon post":
"Based on my Heritage tracked lots it seems that about 10-15 people are interested in tracking these. I suspect there will be some more action in live bidding, as it appears that a lot of people are waiting till the last minute to show their hands as usual."
Have a great day!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
My comment was in reply to Goldminers "self serving, jack wagon post":
"Based on my Heritage tracked lots it seems that about 10-15 people are interested in tracking these. I suspect there will be some more action in live bidding, as it appears that a lot of people are waiting till the last minute to show their hands as usual."
Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin I'd like to talk about the price of gold and how it's affected sales of these trinkets.
Well I feel that gold was really cheap in 2007 and 2008 and that contributed to the big mintages and demand. As gold went way up till 2012 it then resulted in reduced mintages and demand and the series was slipping into very low end of popularity. A lot of this may also be due to stocks falling as well in late 2008.
Now I personally believe we have seen the low in gold prices, and so I think within a few years ahead there will be retests of the 2012 highs. That is why I collect this series, as I feel it is a good entry point and many mintages are the lowest in the modern era.
I also liked the history of learning a bit about the ladies, along the way.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I see the Margaret Taylor PR70 at $2,702.50 with fees, and Louisa Adams PR at $2,937.50, but the 2014 Roosevelt PR70 FS was a stunning $4,230!!!!! That one really surprises me.
"I see the Margaret Taylor PR70 at $2,702.50 with fees, and Louisa Adams PR at $2,937.50, but the 2014 Roosevelt PR70 FS was a stunning $4,230!!!!! That one really surprises me."
No question, these (3) coins at nearly $10,000.00 combined were a highlight of the sale. But, many other less scarce coins performed below expectations I believe. So, there were clearly the "highs" with the "lows". It should be very interesting to see how the set performs in the years ahead.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Comments
I've personally placed a very "big bet" that you will be proven wrong in that comparison. The fact is that a number of the gold spouse coins have the lowest Type coin populations in the past 100 years at the mint. I compare the series closer to $3 Classic Gold than 3C Nickels. Like these spouse gold coins, the $3 Classic Gold coins were never popular with the general public at the time of their release. I believe it took a few decades to start things rolling.
We'll see. I love the fact that when and if Gold hits $2,000/oz, my collection of these Gold Spouse coins enjoys a 50% base increase in value without even considering how the 70 grade has fared, if the low population coins have taken off in value, how the FS coins are performing or even if the autographed versions have attracted any special collector interest. Those are all the "wild cards" in the game. I like "games" where there are two or three ways to win as opposed to just one.
As always, just my two cents.
Wondercoin
I compare the series closer to $3 Classic Gold than 3C Nickels. Like these spouse gold coins, the $3 Classic Gold coins were never popular with the general public at the time of their release. I believe it took a few decades to start things rolling.
Wondercoin
I was going to post that the $3 Gold coins had a purpose. To buy a roll of 100 3c stamps.
However there seems to be much more to that story
What would the US do if some historian found a marriage license for Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings?
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
I was going to post that the $3 Gold coins had a purpose. To buy a roll of 100 3c stamps.
We need a coin like that today. The denomination should be "100 Forevers".
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Toning -- ugly toning--- on these gold spouse coins in holders in my experience, is a huge issue, which is why I would not play the label game here.
I gave up keeping up on the series in 2011, however I've laid up so many duplicates, quadruplicates, etc. of the more desireable ones that maybe I have a chance to trade my way into a complete unc. set one day.
.9999 gold isn't as attractive as the 90% gold the Eagles are made of, I'll admit that. I like deeper orange.
Ten days or so to "showtime".
Wondercoin.
I wish you guys would go easier on 3C Nickels.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Mike M
While the 3CNs do not get a lot of love, you can get a LOT of coin for your money. That said, their value remains mostly constant for the reasons stated earlier.
I still believe the value of many of the First Spouse coins is still highly correlated with the value of gold. Look in a year and see where melt for gold is. I am closer to 1000 than 2000. Yes, there are quite of few of low mintage, but how many people will shell out the money for a complete set. A few to to be certain, but not a great number. If I were investing, I would buy the ones without a spouse on the obverse. IMHO a much nicer, smaller set that avoids having to buy many that are essentially bullion coins.
Time will tell, I appreciate Wondercoin keeping this issue in front of the collecting community! It makes for excellent discourse and exchange of ideas.
Interestingly, Heritage selected the "Modern Commemorative" section to place the nearly 70-80 different spouse gold coins in the collection as opposed to the "Modern Bullion" section. For registry purposes, the coins are found in the bullion section at PCGS.
Wondercoin
I still believe the value of many of the First Spouse coins is still highly correlated with the value of gold. Look in a year and see where melt for gold is. I am closer to 1000 than 2000. Yes, there are quite of few of low mintage, but how many people will shell out the money for a complete set. A few to to be certain, but not a great number. If I were investing, I would buy the ones without a spouse on the obverse. IMHO a much nicer, smaller set that avoids having to buy many that are essentially bullion coins.
Time will tell, I appreciate Wondercoin keeping this issue in front of the collecting community! It makes for excellent discourse and exchange of ideas.
I think that now that the collector does not have to keep up with 4 or 5 coins coming out each year. There will be people that have some coins, trying to fill the gaps. Also many of the first strike holders are going to be hard to get, especially going back to 2008 and 2009. I know some don`t care about First strike, but many do. If the handful of Spouses you already have are first strike labels, your probably going to want your hole set to be First Strike! The last time I looked, a set of Proofs were limited to Margaret Taylor. I think only 74 possible first strike sets. The uncirculated were limited to Letitia Tyler only 94 Possible sets with first strike!
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
The last time I looked, a set of Proofs were limited to Margaret Taylor. I think only 74 possible first strike sets. The uncirculated were limited to Letitia Tyler only 94 Possible sets with first strike!
I count 367 proof Margaret Taylor and 225 unc. Letitia Tyler first strikes. I like the flag labels, and MS/PR69 first strikes can be purchased for about the same price as coins with the regular labels.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Wondercoin.
Through 2012 I was foolish, and I bought from the mint and submitted myself to PCGS for grading. Sometimes I got lucky but I ran a pretty poor 70 vs 69 percentage. Finally around 2012-2013 I realized that it was cheaper and simpler to just buy 70's from a reseller. I'm kicking myself for not doing that sooner.
Now I'm contemplating upgrading the 69's and whether it's worth it or not. But I am relieved that I don't have to budget to buy 8-10 1/2oz gold coins every year.
BTW, you keep saying the set is closed, but is it? When the next current or former president dies, don't you think they'll extend the issue?
The last time I looked, a set of Proofs were limited to Margaret Taylor. I think only 74 possible first strike sets. The uncirculated were limited to Letitia Tyler only 94 Possible sets with first strike!
I count 367 proof Margaret Taylor and 225 unc. Letitia Tyler first strikes. I like the flag labels, and MS/PR69 first strikes can be purchased for about the same price as coins with the regular labels.
Yes as wonder coin stated, I was talking about PCGS MS/PR70 Sets! I should have been more clear.
Overdate... I am not sure what you mean when you say that you count 367 proof MT first strike? Are you talking about placing a lesser grade coin in a 70 grade FS set?
Wondercoin.
No, I was trying to say that those of us with lower budgets can still assemble nice First Strike sets in the MS/PR69 range. I got the feeling from some of the posts on this thread that First Strikes were considered to be of no importance in any grade less than 70.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
But I think there is great potential still.
I believe that there is a mega-bubble coming for coins, just like it did for real estate. It could be in a couple of years or it could be 50 years away, I don't know. But it will happen, everything happens in cycles. And when it does, these will catch fire due to rarity. Just like during the housing bubble "everyone" became a real estate agent and a real estate expert, the same will happen in the coin industry. Yes, you will go to a party and you'll pass by janitors and "hot chicks" discussing the merits of First Strike labels and Mercanti signatures. But guess what other attributes they will boast and promote? Yep, the ultra-low mintage figures of the spouse series.
If and when there is a coin-hype/bubble environment, these will really take off.
I believe that there is a mega-bubble coming for coins, just like it did for real estate.
The mega-bubbles I recall were confined to certain areas of coin collecting - BU rolls in 1964, BU buffaloes/Mercs/Walkers in 1980 several months after the gold/silver peak (common date BU Walkers approaching $4000 per roll), and slabbed high-grade type/commems in 1989. I think coin collecting overall has become less popular since the last mega-bubble, making another one less likely. Too many other things vie for people's attention these days.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
In the case of First Spouse Gold, I don't even collect graded slabs. An archival 2x2 is fine by me. I'm within striking distance of a full set, but I see no compelling reason to buy anything more than a 69 grade when buying on the secondary market unless it's fairly close to melt, especially since it's probably going to be "liberated".
There are different flavor collectors, and my priorities don't include 70 or FS (in this series). People may not agree with me, but I've cracked out all of my "extra" collector bullion coins in 69 grade (including FS) and stored them (with the labels) in archival 2x2's.
A TPG label is only someone's paid opinion, and I've seen enough variability in grading to be fine with my own grading assessment. The FS designation is another thing entirely, especially in these low mintage issues.
I will be fairly curious to see how the prices stack up in this upcoming auction.
I knew it would happen.
If Hilllary Clinton gets elected then what do we call wild Bill?
Mr. Good economy?
Louisa Adams/Maggie Taylor....i think the rarest PR70s at PCGS....anyone confirm that?
anything MS/PR70 2009....seems PCGS was ridiculously unforgiving with 70s that year
the Liberty's....we always thought those were the pick of the set
and Eleanor Roosevelt? still trying to figure that one out.....
i guess there is still some interest in the set after all!!!!!
jmho
gyros
Wondercoin
Wondercoin
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
agree with you.. as the auction nears....the closet "i'm not a fan" of the spouse set will show themselves....there are some pretty rare moderns to be found!
Wondercoin
It should get interesting in the next couple days. I have noticed a lot more bidding "at the last minute" than I usually see in this particular Heritage auction. Perhaps folks playing their cards close to their vest.
Wondercoin
Yep,
that's it.
Have an interest in your post?
Why I hate this forum, self serving, jack wagon posts.
Put it on the BST.
My comment was in reply to Goldminers "self serving, jack wagon post":
"Based on my Heritage tracked lots it seems that about 10-15 people are interested in tracking these. I suspect there will be some more action in live bidding, as it appears that a lot of people are waiting till the last minute to show their hands as usual."
Have a great day!
Wondercoin
epc...
My comment was in reply to Goldminers "self serving, jack wagon post":
"Based on my Heritage tracked lots it seems that about 10-15 people are interested in tracking these. I suspect there will be some more action in live bidding, as it appears that a lot of people are waiting till the last minute to show their hands as usual."
Have a great day!
Wondercoin
Whatever.
Take it to BST.
Have a great day!
Wondercoin
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
If Hillary got elected ... Would Bill be in line for a First Spouse issue?
That'd still be LESS weird than Alice Paul on a coin. She wasn't even a first spouse.
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
Wondercoin
I'd like to talk about the price of gold and how it's affected sales of these trinkets.
Well I feel that gold was really cheap in 2007 and 2008 and that contributed to the big mintages and demand. As gold went way up till 2012 it then resulted in reduced mintages and demand and the series was slipping into very low end of popularity. A lot of this may also be due to stocks falling as well in late 2008.
Now I personally believe we have seen the low in gold prices, and so I think within a few years ahead there will be retests of the 2012 highs. That is why I collect this series, as I feel it is a good entry point and many mintages are the lowest in the modern era.
I also liked the history of learning a bit about the ladies, along the way.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
No question, these (3) coins at nearly $10,000.00 combined were a highlight of the sale. But, many other less scarce coins performed below expectations I believe. So, there were clearly the "highs" with the "lows". It should be very interesting to see how the set performs in the years ahead.
Wondercoin