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Does anyone know if any other Trade Dollar dies exist? I just found two.

I located an 1878 Proof Die and business strike die. Both obverses. Also an obverse 1878 Proof Quarter die.

Note the inaccurate label.
image
Because to Err is Human.
I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading.
Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.

Comments

  • TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    I heard about this guy who found two
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know the answer to your question but those are beautiful looking pieces. Were you able to pick them up?
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,827 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Which country were they in?
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,047 ✭✭✭✭✭
    now that's something you don't stumble upon very often!
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very interesting....where were they located? Coin show or shop? Cheers, RickO
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,145 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Uhm - wow! Wanna sell them?
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting. Years ago when the Chinese counterfeits were becoming more common in the marketplace, I corresponded with one of the counterfeiters who offered to sell me a pair of twenty-cent piece counterfeit dies for $200 (in addition to planchets). Any provenance with these dies?
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Whoa. These are incredible if real. Where are these from?
  • GoldenEggGoldenEgg Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, those do have the general shape of genuine US Mint obverse dies used at that time. I have also not seen modern dies of this shape - maybe the resident self-minter can confirm image

    The one, dollar die and the quarter die appear to be "improperly cleaned", unfortunately, unless they survived that long without acquiring any rust.

    This type of cancellation mark appears to be consistent with other cancelled dies of the era.

    And I don't see any obvious issues with incorrect design details or poor surface quality.

    Are there any marks on the edge of the dies that denote where these dies were used/ intended to be used? Of course a Philadelphia Mint die would likely not have this.
  • LostSislerLostSisler Posts: 521 ✭✭✭
    You guys would not beleive the provenance of these.
    I'm going to write something up and post it.
    They're in a museum.
    Because to Err is Human.
    I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading.
    Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: LostSisler

    You guys would not beleive the provenance of these.

    I'm going to write something up and post it.

    They're in a museum.




    Could the "museum" be the headquarters of the American Numismatic Association?

    Steveimage
  • DDRDDR Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very interested in hearing the story behind these.
  • commoncents05commoncents05 Posts: 10,077 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Steve
    Originally posted by: LostSisler
    You guys would not beleive the provenance of these.
    I'm going to write something up and post it.
    They're in a museum.


    Could the "museum" be the headquarters of the American Numismatic Association?
    Steveimage


    If they are, I will be cancelling my ANA membership. Calling them "Mint Stamps" and mislabeling them as being $1.00 and $.50 would be too much idiocy for an organization that should know better.

    -Paul
    Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great find!
    Looking forward to seeing the longer story.
  • LostSislerLostSisler Posts: 521 ✭✭✭
    They're in a tiny museum in the U.S. and have been there since the 1920's.
    I believe the proof dies were used in Phili but Phili didn't make any business strikes that year so the normal die is currently a mystery (there are no other marks. I'll be able to handle them next week).
    The two shiny ones were not improperly cleaned. They're chromed at the mint.
    Three additional photos.
    Because to Err is Human.
    I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading.
    Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
  • ianrussellianrussell Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow.
    Ian Russell
    Owner/Founder GreatCollections
    GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
  • OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,826 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • GoldenEggGoldenEgg Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: LostSisler
    The two shiny ones were not improperly cleaned. They're chromed at the mint.


    Ahh. That makes sense. I did not know that they chrome plated dies at that time. Hopefully the experts will get a chance to view these in person! I hope to hear more about these.
  • krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
    Looking forward to the "rest of the story."

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

  • 1Mike11Mike1 Posts: 4,414 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: GoldenEgg
    Originally posted by: LostSisler
    The two shiny ones were not improperly cleaned. They're chromed at the mint.


    Ahh. That makes sense. I did not know that they chrome plated dies at that time. Hopefully the experts will get a chance to view these in person! I hope to hear more about these.


    Was chrome plating available at the time?

    "May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"

    "A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
  • OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This thread is a tease. Would love to hear more information.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fascinating!
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: LostSisler

    They're in a tiny museum in the U.S. and have been there since the 1920's.

    I believe the proof dies were used in Phili but Phili didn't make any business strikes that year so the normal die is currently a mystery (there are no other marks. I'll be able to handle them next week).

    The two shiny ones were not improperly cleaned. They're chromed at the mint.

    http://m.imgur.com/atgZ8vJ,POpSV88,cAHcQ5x">Three additional photos.




    The supposed circulation strike Trade Dollar obverse die could have been a remainder for what could have been shipped to Carson City or San Francisco.



    "You guys would not beleive the provenance of these.

    I'm going to write something up and post it.

    They're in a museum."



    I'll take a WAG that a Philly Mint employee purchased them after they were defaced, and after passing away, the heirs donated them to the museum.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: 1Mike1
    Originally posted by: GoldenEgg
    Originally posted by: LostSisler
    The two shiny ones were not improperly cleaned. They're chromed at the mint.


    Ahh. That makes sense. I did not know that they chrome plated dies at that time. Hopefully the experts will get a chance to view these in person! I hope to hear more about these.


    Was chrome plating available at the time?



    The first commercial chrome plating became available in 1924. The idea was patented much earlier with a French patent being granted in 1848.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well?
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • LostSislerLostSisler Posts: 521 ✭✭✭
    I've been researching this story since finding the dies. It will be published soon and I'll post a link here.
    Because to Err is Human.
    I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading.
    Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 5,667 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Such an appealing discovery!

    Many happy BST transactions
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,279 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LostSisler - nice to see you posting again!



    Looking forward to the rest of the story.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • halfhunterhalfhunter Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭
    Must be the photos or my old eyes, but the devices appear raised rather than incused to me.



    HH
    Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set:
    1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
    Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: LostSisler
    I've been researching this story since finding the dies. It will be published soon and I'll post a link here.

    Thanks and looking forward to the read!
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2018 10:17PM

    @LostSisler said:
    I located an 1878 Proof Die and business strike die. Both obverses. Also an obverse 1878 Proof Quarter die.

    Note the inaccurate label.

    A great thread that can use an update!

    Any news on these @LostSisler? I'd love to know more!

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,283 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lostsisler may be a "lostmember" :(

    LostSisler:
    Last Active June 21, 2016 8:16AM

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,283 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe, like the XFiles, he got too close to the truth....

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,105 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great post. Want to hear "the rest of the story".
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Let's hope they are not from China.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • TLeverageTLeverage Posts: 259 ✭✭✭

    Did we ever get a publication out of this post?

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have never seen an additional post (either update or new) on this topic... Cheers, RickO

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