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Can this 1805 Quarter benefit from "Conservation or restoration"? * Grade revealed *

REALGATORREALGATOR Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭✭✭
This is a really sharp 1805 B-3 Draped Bust Quarter. Its currently in an old small white anacs holder with a numeric grade (not details).

Is this the type of coin that could benefit from pcgs or ngc restoration/conservation services?
It has very dark toning and I'm not sure if there are other contaminants on there that they might remove to give this coin better eye appeal. Any opinions welcome or just enjoy the photos.

image
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Comments

  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,689 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What would you propose that it should look like?
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • GaCoinGuyGaCoinGuy Posts: 2,714 ✭✭✭✭
    Personally, I'd leave that one just the way it is.
    imageimage

  • BIGAL2749BIGAL2749 Posts: 742 ✭✭✭✭
    If the coin was a heavily circulated coin I might be tempted to put it in a ultra sonic cleaner (even the type used for dentures) with water and small amount of soap but this coin has never received a lot of use so it may be better to let the pros evaluate it.

    Al
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,839 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think anything done to this coin will only make it more unappealing.
  • shishshish Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
    +1
    Liberty Seated and Trade Dollar Specialist
  • FlatwoodsFlatwoods Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't think it could be improved.
  • REALGATORREALGATOR Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for all of the comments. I just read that the restoration services will not accept a coin simply to make a toned coin white.

    I don't want to make the coin white but I would like to see the details without having to use a lamp or be in bright light. Its actually somewhat has the look of a brown copper pattern.

    Anyone want to give it a grade?
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cannot grade from those pictures at all....coin is so dark it is difficult to determine strike/details.

    Cheers, RickO
  • FlatwoodsFlatwoods Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is tough to grade being that dark but it's a nice coin.



    55 ?
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,719 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The real question you should ask yourself is whether you like the coin as it is. If so, leave as it is and be happy to just to own it. The next question might be, what are my chances of finding a better example that will satisfy my expectations? If you do not like it, consider consigning it and finding an example more suited to your expectations. And as part of the consignment process ask if the coin would gain greater interest from being crossed to either an NGC or PCGS holder. I suspect the answer will be fairly straight forward and will be yes. Its unfortunate and to a greater degree unfair, but that is sort of how it is. Any effort to improve the coin has significant risk and downside. Further, it is not probable that it will produce the desired result.

    Personally, I like it and would keep it.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • ShortgapbobShortgapbob Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭
    Based on the toning, I would guess that this coin was chemically cleaned years ago and has since retoned.

    I don't think it would have very much "freshness" under that toning.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle

    For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.

    The Reeded Edge
  • earlycoinsearlycoins Posts: 282 ✭✭✭
    Whatever the grade, there appears to be a blotchiness beneath the tone, that if dipped, or otherwise affected, could make it less appealing. I have no problem with dark, toned 200 year-old silver.
  • AblinkyAblinky Posts: 625 ✭✭✭
    I think if anything in the way of trying to "help" that coin will only suffice to "hurt" it.

    Andrew Blinkiewicz-Heritage

  • 123cents123cents Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭
    Nice coin as is.
    image
  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,549 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the appearance bothers you, sell it in its current holder and buy something that doesn't give you second thoughts!
    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • SamByrdSamByrd Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭✭
    I would send this coin to PCGS for possible conservation in a second. The dark color does effect marketability. Many high end coins have been conserved its not always a bad thing.

  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: SamByrd
    I would send this coin to PCGS for possible conservation in a second. The dark color does effect marketability. Many high end coins have been conserved its not always a bad thing.


    I agree with this.



  • superpsychmdsuperpsychmd Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭
    If they think they will hurt the coin they will tell you
  • superpsychmdsuperpsychmd Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭
    Actually may have been darkened intentionally to hide hairlines or a cleaning
  • REALGATORREALGATOR Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can surely accept the coin as-is but given that so much of the original 200+ year old detail of this coin remains it would be nice to see it clearly without bright lighting. Is there something lurking under the dark toning? Dont know but under a halogen lamp, I cant find anything.

    Anyone else care to grade it?
  • SamByrdSamByrd Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭✭
    the details imo are XF45-AU50
  • REALGATORREALGATOR Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hasn't this 25c been offered on eBay recently? I believe I recognize it.

    Nope.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Awesome details, very little wear, curious to know the ANACS grade, would think 45 because the thick toning covers any luster, but the details really look strong AU

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was thinking MS obverse and AU reverse.What I can make out.image
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think that if anyone messes with this coin, it will look worse. Leave it alone. The toning is really embedded into the surfaces, and there is some corrosion around the face and other devices. If you remove that you will end up with pits and white spots. To most collectors, that is not appealing.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: superpsychmd
    Actually may have been darkened intentionally to hide hairlines or a cleaning



    That's possible. I once saw an 1804 quarter that had been worked on for that reason. It had a lot detail, probably on the AU level, but the coin was in an ANACS holder with problem comment on it for AT.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,719 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is a reasonable chance that the coin may not have been quite that dark at the time it was slabbed. I suspect it was likely graded 20 years ago- possibly longer

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A few years ago I was concerned that the below coin's toning was approaching terminal in places and, if left untreated, damage would follow. So I dipped and rinsed it properly, stuck it in an old kraft envelope and set it aside. The "after" picture is how it appears today.



    I'm sure some collectors will say they prefer the original look, even if black toning were to etch the surface in places. OTOH, I enjoy the coin a lot more and consider it conserved. It is probably more marketable now.



    The risk is a lot more significant with the 1805 bust quarter. But a decent outcome is not out of the question. I would let PCGS have a go at it. If they feel it cannot be improved or is too risky you're not out much money.

    Lance.



    imageimage
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd leave it alone. The coin is close to Unc. re wear, though it would get net graded for blotchiness and its dark color. Still, I've seen so many "market acceptable" draped bust AU coins, especially Bust $s, that I think are far more unattractive than this coin per its image. And a 'conservation' may very well make this coin less attractive.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • REALGATORREALGATOR Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As coinkat guessed, it has been in the slab 20+ years. But I did not own it back then.

    No way of knowing if the conservative grade is for the toning or the service's grades were typically lower in the '80s and early '90s. Old 40 is the new 50?

    image
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    IMO, grading standards have "evolved" so much that this coin is grossly under-graded. I should have cracked it out and sent it to PGCS or NGC and got the XF-45 to AU-53 grade and a new holder.



    Furthermore, this is a coin I would not touch; however, there are folks who know how to lighten it up just a tad or at the least remove any film on the surface or dirt next to the relief.

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