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1955 Topps Cello Pack RIP -- CLEMENTE GRADED

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  • KendallCatKendallCat Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Griffins
    Originally posted by: 1980scollector
    If the Clemente is notoriously OC thiis pack makes perfect sense. When a pack is centered properly you get a Clemente that is grossly OC. You get a pack that is largely OC you get a centered Clemente. That is my theory anyway.



    Mine too- and one proved by uncut sheets.




    Not sure I follow here. Are you saying the Clemente should or should not be centered based on the pack? I am puzzled why all of the other cards in the pack have corners that match but the Clemente card has corner wear that is different. Would stand to reason that the corner wear would be identical on all of the cards in the pack based on previous packs I have seen and opened.

    Centering can be all over, and in this case every card was horribly off center in the same exact way but one card - which also happens to be the best card in the set. What are the chances that happens that 19 match up and one does not?
  • NikklosNikklos Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: dennis07

    Thanks for sharing and it looks like you got Nikklos fired up & that's always good for this board.




    Aw thanks Dennis. But on the flip side, man oh man how could you ever top pulling a dead centered Clemente rookie? My oh my.
    Nikklos
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Griffins
    Originally posted by: 1980scollector
    If the Clemente is notoriously OC thiis pack makes perfect sense. When a pack is centered properly you get a Clemente that is grossly OC. You get a pack that is largely OC you get a centered Clemente. That is my theory anyway.



    Mine too- and one proved by uncut sheets.




    This makes sense. I have never opened a pack from this issue but in 1979 Hockey one card that is notoriously OC is the Bossy #161. Whenever I pulled one somewhat decently centered all the other cards in the pack were grossly miscut or OC.
  • Originally posted by: CollectorAtWork

    Is it just me, or is there writing on back of the Clemente card?




    Looks like ball point pen. And perhaps a slight stain above it?



  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just want to make sure I got this conspiracy theory correct:

    1. Spend 2K buying unopened cello pack


    2. Spend ?K buying Clemente rookie


    3. Insert Clemente rookie into cello pack rip thread on CU forum

    4. ?????????


    5. Profit? How? Accolades of adoring Internet aliases are not worth anything to my knowledge

    What would be the benefit of faking it?

  • For fun? To breathe life into the board?



    I don't see the harm in it either way. I am not invested in it.



    He got to open a 55 pack. He has a clemente rc. He entertained either way.



    Not my call to say legit or not.



    And I think any attempt to make each other think it's either legit or not is futile.



    It is what it is and that's all that it is.

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can't help but harken back to this.



    Even if there's zero correlation, any reason at all to go back and read that gem in its entirety is a good one.
  • PM770PM770 Posts: 320 ✭✭
    Originally posted by: LarkinCollector
    Just want to make sure I got this conspiracy theory correct:

    1. Spend 2K buying unopened cello pack

    2. Spend ?K buying Clemente rookie

    3. Insert Clemente rookie into cello pack rip thread on CU forum

    4. Profit? How? Accolades of adoring Internet aliases are not worth anything to my knowledge


    What would be the benefit of faking it?


    You forgot the step with the "??????????" before the "Profit" step
  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: PM770
    You forgot the step with the "??????????" before the "Profit" step

    Fixed image

  • DragnetDragnet Posts: 635 ✭✭✭
    Just to answer a few questions posed.. someone mentioned what looks like writing on the back. I saw this as well, but could only figure it was some kind of stray printing defect. I honestly didn't think too much of it. It certainly is not a "pen" mark or anything produced by human hands. Above that is a minor black focus, not unlike the line on the front, but much less visible and far more blurred.



    For the question regarding the corners. I will say that 2 of the corners (bottom left, top right) do show the faintest amount of wear. I owe this to the fact that the card was 2nd to last in the cello, and those typically towards the front or back suffer the greatest. Having said that, I think the corners are about as nice as anyone could expect given the placement of the card in the cello!



    Lastly, for all the questions regarding the legitimacy of the pack break given the centering of the Clemente... Let me just say that I had I not opened the pack myself, I would would be right with you. It just doesn't make sense. I've said it numerous times already, and I'll say it again. I can't explain why that card ended up the way it did, in that pack, in that position, etc. etc. I wish I had a better answer, but I simply don't. I have absolutely no reason, however, to post a "fake pack rip" to drum up interest in the boards, or whatever else you can think up. I rarely post in this forum (more in the buy/sell/trade) and am not the type to revel in attention. I do appreciate all of those that have offered congratulations and am happy to see that so many got to experience even a fraction of the exhilaration that I did opening the pack.



    The cards were sent out yesterday (Clemente, 2 Mays, about 13 others). The Clemente was sent with "Walk-Through" service, the 2 Mays as "Express" and the rest under CC#4. I may have a grade back on the Clemente tomorrow, but if not, Monday for sure. Will post again when that happens.



    Thanks again guys,

    Josh



  • 19541954 Posts: 2,866 ✭✭✭
    Please let us know the results Josh. This has been awesome to watch.
    Looking for high grade rookie cards and unopened boxes/cases
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    I can't believe people here, net54 and that other "message board" are questioning Josh's intentions with this (and his Gretzky) rip.



    Again, CONGRATULATIONS on your score!!!!
  • I rarely post in this forum


    But when you do.....

    image
  • TNP777TNP777 Posts: 5,711 ✭✭✭
    What other "message board" are you referring to, Patrick?

  • lseeconlseecon Posts: 318 ✭✭
    When is someone going to rip the Series 3 1954 Topps cello pack for sale on the BBCE website. Series 3 has the Aaron, Kaline and Banks rookies if I am correct. Are there 18 cards in that pack? Im sure it could be had for $6,000 (from the $7,000 list price), or "only" $333 per card.

    I would buy a few "slots" out of the pack if someone wants to do a group break. With Dragnet's luck, he should be the one ripping that pack.
  • pjb103183pjb103183 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭
    Best of luck with the grades josh...ignore the skeptics...that was one hell of a pack rip!
  • DragnetDragnet Posts: 635 ✭✭✭
    Thanks Patrick/Phillip. Of note, I found this as a recently graded example with a similar, though significantly less prominent print line, graded PSA 7. Interestingly, this example has the very same minor print marks on the reverse that were referred to above!

    eBay 1955 Clemente
  • I should've been wearing Depends ... I crapped my pants on the Clemente. Great hits, thanks for sharing. Each passing card was simply awesome. 2 Mays - no matter the centering. Well worth it ... what a great ride! This is what happens when I stay away for a few days. The Dude
    Collecting 64, 66, 67, 70 & 71 Baseball. Cubs, wax, cello & rack baseball.
  • I stand corrected. I also agree now that that is not writing, but only print marks. Apologies to the OP. Nice score!
  • Legit or not, this is the best rip since all those '86 Donruss Canseco Rookies ended up on a BBQ grill.

  • lahmejoonlahmejoon Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: galaxy27
    I can't help but harken back to this.

    Even if there's zero correlation, any reason at all to go back and read that gem in its entirety is a good one.


    Lol - that thread is a classic.
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: LarkinCollector

    Just want to make sure I got this conspiracy theory correct:







    1. Spend 2K buying unopened cello pack





    2. Spend ?K buying Clemente rookie





    3. Insert Clemente rookie into cello pack rip thread on CU forum



    4. ?????????





    5. Profit? How? Accolades of adoring Internet aliases are not worth anything to my knowledge







    What would be the benefit of faking it?
    Just a guess here. Possibly to promote the buying of vintage unopened, provided the seller knew it was going to be opened here or elsewhere with a high public interest in vintage unopened.



    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • DragnetDragnet Posts: 635 ✭✭✭
    Would make sense... if I hadn't sold the bulk of my unopened collection over the last few months. Save for a few things I picked up recently in auction that are not really in my collecting interest and that I can't afford to keep, the remaining unopened that I currently own is locked away in storage and won't be returning anytime soon....

    In fact, there's far more I'd be interested in buying than selling. Still looking for unopened boxes of 1975 Topps (Reg.), 1973 O-Pee-Chee and 1976 Topps Cello, along with cello packs from 1963, 1965 and 1971!


    Originally posted by: BLUEJAYWAY
    Originally posted by: LarkinCollector
    Just want to make sure I got this conspiracy theory correct:



    1. Spend 2K buying unopened cello pack


    2. Spend ?K buying Clemente rookie


    3. Insert Clemente rookie into cello pack rip thread on CU forum

    4. ?????????


    5. Profit? How? Accolades of adoring Internet aliases are not worth anything to my knowledge



    What would be the benefit of faking it?
    Just a guess here. Possibly to promote the buying of vintage unopened, provided the seller knew it was going to be opened here or elsewhere with a high public interest in vintage unopened.


  • garnettstylegarnettstyle Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭✭
    No wonder I couldn't hit anything when I ripped my 55 pack. YOU had all the good cards lol.

    IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED

  • baseballfanbaseballfan Posts: 5,450 ✭✭✭
    cant wait to see the grades.

    congrats again
    Fred

    collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.

    looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started

  • This has been an awesome thread! Can't wait to see what grades you get!!!
  • DragnetDragnet Posts: 635 ✭✭✭
    Just received word that the card graded PSA 6. I did email Joe to ask why he felt the card did not receive a (PD) qualifier and if the grader felt the market would accept significantly less than the recently graded PSA 7 linked to above.



    Interested to hear your thoughts!



  • Wow. Tough call. I thought they'd throw ya a bone for the great centering and give it a 6.5. There's not much of a value increase from 6 to 6.5, though, at least according to recent pricing info. A PSA 7 obviously will earn you a better premium, as you've discovered. Might be worth a try to review it sometime soon. I'm sure there are those who will encourage you to do so. Otherwise, get it into an auction soon and let the market push the value up. It will present a whole lot better than the label.
  • DragnetDragnet Posts: 635 ✭✭✭
    In response to my questions, I received the following response from Joe:



    "I saw the card myself before it shipped. It is a very nice card. It has some wear on the corners. More specifically, if you look at the upper right, the corner has the kind of defect that we often see on cards that came from packs like this. It's hard to describe, but take a look at it when you get it back. It's not traditional wear per se, it's as if the corner is buckled near the tip.



    I think the corner issues, coupled with PD , dropped it to a 6 - but I can ask the graders if they remember on Monday.



    Take care...and congrats on the card. The centering is terrific."

  • DragnetDragnet Posts: 635 ✭✭✭
    I sent him the following reply:



    "Thanks for the response Joe. I was aware of a little bit of corner wear, specifically on the lower left. I also knew of the "ding" if you want to call it that on the upper right as well, but thought that it may be judged less harshly given the overall "eye appeal" and potential market acceptance of the card.



    I guess the grader felt that was significantly affecting to drop the market value below that of the card I linked to previously. I wonder if it may be worth sending back for review at some point to get another perspective or if you felt this would be futile?



    I would still love to know why the card did not receive a PD qualifier.



    Thanks again for the insight."

  • Hey Josh, do you have a pic of the front of the last card in the pack?
    Was it centered as well?

    Thanks.
  • DragnetDragnet Posts: 635 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: LuvOldPacks
    Hey Josh, do you have a pic of the front of the last card in the pack?
    Was it centered as well?

    Thanks.


    It was posted a few pages back. Was actually centered much better L to R, but was miscut T to B.
  • image


    image
  • image
  • The PSA 7 is a nice card but I would take the pack fresh PSA 6 in a heartbeat over that 7
  • If you take away the brightness or tone difference between the two cards I think the 7 is a 7 and the 6 is a 6. Id take the 7 if the color was about the same. The 7 is a better picture. The tone may be due to the scanner.

    I thought the card of the OP would do better than a 6 and the corner defect is what stands out to me. Resubmit it.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,478 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think with a qualifier, you'd be looking at an 8, so the straight 6 is not surprising, as in my experience, the lack of a qualifier typically equates to two numerical grades. I am not sure what criteria a grader uses to determine whether or not to assign a qualifier. I'd have to believe that a card like this, submitted at the Express level, would have been reviewed by a senior or head grader. Congrats, again, Josh, on a beautiful card.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • 1980scollector1980scollector Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭
    His "six" is better than that "seven" in my eyes.



    Crack it resubmit down the road.
    ** Working on the following sets-2013 Spectra Football Hall of Fame 50th Anniversary Autograph set, 2015 Spectra Football Illustrious Legends Autograph set, 2014-15 Hall of Fame Heroes autograph set. **
  • pdub1819pdub1819 Posts: 1,986 ✭✭✭✭
    My PSA 5 Clemente looks nothing like your PSA "6", but it does have that black print defect in the same place.

    Congratulations btw.... When I have to tell my wife about a thread bc it was so awesome...that's saying something.



    image
  • lahmejoonlahmejoon Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭
    Still solid. Congratulations!
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    Here's what I see....then again, not much I can see on a screen!



    image
  • GDM67GDM67 Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm guessing this will go for more than what a run of the mill 6 would have. Between the fabulous centering and the bright freshness of the borders, it's going to draw a lot of interest.
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    I'm also interested in Joe's response. It seems like he and his graders saw this thread and knew they were dealing with a cello pack. It's almost like they were waiting on your card to arrive.
  • belzbelz Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭
    Cool that you got joe on this but I personally feel the grade is low. I obviously don't have the card in hand but it looks like a solid 7 at worst even with the corner...8pd would have been better than the 6 imo since the pd is so noticeable. If you want to sell it to me, shoot me a pm..great card
    "Wots Uh The Deal" by Pink Floyd
  • fergie23fergie23 Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭✭
    I thought the card would get a 7 at best. Corner damage due to cellos is very common and what I first noticed from your scan. I think Joe gave you a reasonable explanation for the grade and once it was knocked down due to the corner the PD no longer came into play.



    Robb
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭
    Your 6 will sell strongly, if not the strongest ever for the grade. I could see PSA 7 prices easily. I love low grade, high eye appeal gems!



    image
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • NikklosNikklos Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭
    I myself have begun to question whether it is the most prudent thing to post on the board prior to submitting.
    Nikklos
  • shu4040shu4040 Posts: 982 ✭✭✭
    Yeah yhis card was so high profile. I'd crack out now and send to SGC. Maybe at some point resubmit but I think SGC is the right move for now
  • I personally think the grade is reasonable. A 6.5 would be possible given the overall eye appeal and centering, but seems to be rarely given when some significant negative factor (PD in this case) is present. I am a known grade scrooge, though, so who knows.
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