<< <i>MCM was showing a ship date as July 2 for NGC graded coins. How in the hell do they not only have the coins back from the mint but also GRADED and expected shipping on July 2nd when this thing was backordered from the first second it was on sale.
Did the mint allow the authorized purchasers, who already get a discount, to also gobble up all supply before it went on sale to the public?
<< It's a miracle. Now that all the big dealers have their proofs graded and for sale at rediculous prices, the rest are ready for shipping. How is that possible? >>
Probably those coins are return/rejected from dealer not getting 70. >>
Thats really sad and probably true.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
<< <i>MCM was showing a ship date as July 2 for NGC graded coins. How in the hell do they not only have the coins back from the mint but also GRADED and expected shipping on July 2nd when this thing was backordered from the first second it was on sale.
Did the mint allow the authorized purchasers, who already get a discount, to also gobble up all supply before it went on sale to the public?
I have a hard time believing that MCM or other dealers have been selling some of the spouses just under mint issue price after its been graded a 69. They must get that 5% discount on the spouses as well.
<< <i>I have a hard time believing that MCM or other dealers have been selling some of the spouses just under mint issue price after its been graded a 69. They must get that 5% discount on the spouses as well. >>
Does anyone know the answer to the 5% dealer discount on Spouses?
Spouses have been on the bulk discount list in the past- I know dealers who have ordered them with the discount. However, one told me that Jackie was not on the bulk discount list last Thursday like he expected. So he was not able to get the discount and placed his order through the website like everyone else.
Bulk is different from Authorized Dealer. Your friend having to order like everybody else deepens the mystery of how a dealer, or a few dealers, got the entire available supply of PF before or at the first second of availability sending everybody else to instant B/O.
I hope the answer will be revealed through blogs or Coin World investigation. Hinges on if they ask the hard questions and don't except the PR BS response like "unanticipated demand" crapola that was the quick explanation of what happened from the mint spokesman.
<< <i>Bulk is different from Authorized Dealer. >>
Exactly- I'm thinking the dealers who had early access are the Authorized Bullion dealers, not the bulk dealers. >>
H'uh?
Only Authorized Dealers are authorized to distribute bullion type coinage. Regular people have to buy from them...the mint won't sell bullion type coins to regular people. The Jackies are not bullion type coins. Bulk dealers must have had early access to deplete available stock at or before the noon release.
jawapez, originally you said that Spouses had been on the bulk available list previously but the Jackies are not on that list and your fiend had to order like everybody else.
So if the Jackies are not bullion that leaves out the Authorized Dealers as the culprits (this time). They are not on the bulk list so that eliminates the bulk dealers. Leaving the mystery of who and how they got all the available PF's at release? The dealers (like MCM) who are advertising in stock and for sale, most likely, purchased from the "who" with extraordinary access which justifies the high selling prices.
Who is "who"? How were they granted extraordinary access?
<< <i>MCM is an AD. Judging from how many were on ebay, they purchased somewhere in the range of 550 coins.
If they are an AD and a "bulk dealer" then we wont know which it is. We do know that they have plenty of coins graded and available though. >>
MCM is not an Authorized Dealer.
"There are a total of eight gold authorized purchasers, 12 for silver and six for platinum. Three firms are outside the United States.
They are:
• A-Mark Precious Metals of Santa Monica, Calif. It is authorized to purchase gold, silver and platinum. • American Precious Metals Exchange, Inc., of Oklahoma City, Okla. Silver Eagles only. • Coins ‘N’ Things, Inc., of Bridgewater, Mass. Gold, silver and platinum. • Dillon Gage Inc. of Dallas, Texas. Silver only. • Fidelitrade, Inc. of Wilmington, Del. Silver only. • Jack Hunt Coin Broker, Inc., of Kenmore, N.Y. Silver only. • MTB of New York. Gold, silver and platinum. • Prudential Securities, Inc., of New York. Gold, silver and platinum. • Scotia Mocatta of New York. Gold silver and platinum. • The Gold Center of Springfield, Ill., Silver only."
They could be a bulk dealer but it was said that the Jackies were not on the bulk available list. They also sent emails to some of their customers offering to buy their 5 coin allotments. This is how they got most of their stock.
Only Authorized Dealers are authorized to distribute bullion type coinage. Regular people have to buy from them...the mint won't sell bullion type coins to regular people. The Jackies are not bullion type coins. Bulk dealers must have had early access to deplete available stock at or before the noon release. >>
Just because First Spouses aren't technically bullion doesn't eliminate ADs. I'm guessing that only ADs have the means to pull something like this off- direct contact with reps at the Mint who could arrange such a transaction. My friend, who is a bulk dealer and occasionally buys First Spouses on the bulk program, does not have that sort of relationship with the Mint and was not contacted with any sort of early offer. Unless the Mint reached out to specific dealers offering this arrangement, it's really hard for me to see how this could have anything to do with bulk dealers.
Here's my best guess at what happened: Certain ADs had the great idea that "First Day" Jackie proofs would be a great product. However, there's normally no way to get First Day spouses. So they approached the Mint offering a deal. They would spend $X (millions) if the the Mint could get them First Day coins. The Mint agreed. This arrangement depleted the initial stock, but the Mint had enough advance notice to get more coins into production, hence the proof backorders beginning to be filled today.
I was joking to my friend early on about how paranoid people were being about that backorders, but once the big dealers started having graded coins in stock so quickly, it became clear that something fishy happened. Now I'm a conspiracy theorist too.
<< <i>They could be a bulk dealer but it was said that the Jackies were not on the bulk available list. They also sent emails to some of their customers offering to buy their 5 coin allotments. This is how they got most of their stock. >>
MCM's offer to buy 5 coin allotments was for Truman C&C sets- they only buy stock from customers when the product has household limits. MCM is a bulk dealer. I assumed their owner, GovMint, is an AD, but they're not on the list you provided. I wonder how often the Mint updates the list.
Looks like my first day order of proofs was shipped today! Good to see the Mint making an effort to get these out quickly.
The dealer I referred to who is on the bulk program but was not able to buy Jackie through the bulk program is L&C Coins. They've now made a public comment about the proof Jackie fiasco: L&C Coins Facebook
The term is Authorized Purchaser and that is ONLY for the bullion program. (Sold by spot + mark up) (not sold online) (sold by monster box)
"Dealers" can get a quantity discount of 10%, I think. I don't know the quantity, I don't know how they determine who is a dealer, etc.
My concern is they may be showing preferential treatment of the big dealers with these coins. The preferential treatment I would care about is if they pre-sold an allotment to larger dealers in some kind of new agreement with them. Generally, even the mint kiosks have to order via Memphis, however they can order before the on-sale date to allow for delivery before that same date. If the mint has changed practices and is allowing an allotment to go to big dealers on the day of the sale, then I would object. Only the mint should have special order routes and the dealers, even the big ones, should have to fight the order system at 12:00:00 like every one else.
As I stated before, I believe Jackie was not available for any discount on the bulk program - to at least the "regular guys". What the US Mint did with respect to these Jackie coins from the outset (back order on the proofs, etc) potentially smacks of favortism in my opinion. I hope someone files a Freedom of Information Act filing to review this situation and to confirm there was no favoritism. I am troubled by the whole affair at this point.
Just my two cents. Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
It's pretty obvious that multiple orders for 100 coins would have to have been placed within seconds of the ordering window to deplete the initial inventory so quickly. So it seems more likely that a large order (or orders) was allowed to exceed the 100 coin limit that's been established on the Mint's web page.
If a 100 coin limit per order was maintained, it's unlikely that a few individual's orders would not have snuck in as well - but we have no reports of individual orders being filled in the first few minutes.
Considering the shipping and travel times involved, it's even more curious how any dealer could get their hands on the coins, ship them to a grading company, and have them back in-hand for immediate sale on ebay within 4 days max.
The combination of all three of these interesting circumstances clearly tells the story that the rules were bent for someone special. My personal opinion (not being one of these special customers), is that the Mint shouldn't expect the rest of us non-special customers to cut them any slack and the marketers of these overpriced early offerings should be avoided, now and in the future.
At this point, if my order isn't absolutely perfect, the coins are going back. I don't really need a $300 label either.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Received email from MCM: Jackie Proofs and UNCs on sale below issue price. Guess they get a discount or just want to sell clear non-70s near issue or both. Nice opportunity to pick one up in OGP for those who don't want to grade.
<< <i>Received email from MCM: Jackie Proofs and UNCs on sale below issue price. Guess they get a discount or just want to sell clear non-70s near issue or both. Nice opportunity to pick one up in OGP for those who don't want to grade. >>
What a crazy business, I'm still amazed how quick the Mint placates(sucks up to) these big players.
Looks like the rest of the "moderns"....MEH. Maybe i'm looking at things differently, I would like to see "Jackie" in flowing robes like Lady Liberty. The new designs look flat to my eyes.
Well I suppose my 1 Proof and 3 BU Jackies will be at the Post Office by Monday. I have the day off Tuesday so I'll pick them up and mail them back on that day. The whole thing about being on Back Order and no explanations has me a little ill about the US Mint. Depending on further B.O. status I may be done with the US Mint and their First Spouse Gold.
<< <i>Well I suppose my 1 Proof and 3 BU Jackies will be at the Post Office by Monday. I have the day off Tuesday so I'll pick them up and mail them back on that day. The whole thing about being on Back Order and no explanations has me a little ill about the US Mint. Depending on further B.O. status I may be done with the US Mint and their First Spouse Gold.
I don't care to do business with sell-outs.
>>
Mine arrived UPS. Far greater pain to pick up than USPS for me.
<< <i>Received email from MCM: Jackie Proofs and UNCs on sale below issue price. Guess they get a discount or just want to sell clear non-70s near issue or both. Nice opportunity to pick one up in OGP for those who don't want to grade. >>
What a crazy business, I'm still amazed how quick the Mint placates(sucks up to) these big players. >>
I'd buy a PR-69 for less than the issue price. The trouble is I don't care for certified modern coins. I like the original mint package.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
CoinNews: US Mint Sales: Jacqueline Kennedy Coins Top 12,000
by Mike Unser on July 2, 2015
It’s been a fun week for collectors. Last Thursday’s excitement over the new Jacqueline Kennedy First Spouse Gold Coins was eclipsed on Tuesday by the 15-minute sellout of the Harry S. Truman Coin & Chronicles Set.
Sales of the proof and uncirculated Jacqueline Kennedy coins reached 10,894 on the first day. Another 1,114 sold through Sunday, the latest sales figures from the U.S. Mint show, lifting their total to 12,008 coins or 40% of the authorized 30,000.
Both coins remain on back order. The proof edition was tagged with the status straight out of the sales gate. Adam Stump, the U.S. Mint deputy director for the Office of Corporate Communications, released the following statement on Tuesday that describes what happened:
"The Mint underestimated the initial demand for the 2015 First Spouse Series One-Half Ounce Gold Coins — Jacqueline Kennedy and, unfortunately, the products went on back order very quickly after sales started. As of this morning (June 30), additional product is arriving at our distribution center in Memphis that will clear a majority of the backorders. The Mint has resumed production and we expect to fulfill all customer demand in the coming days and weeks. We apologize to our customers for the delay."
In related news, in last week’s sales article we talked about John F. Kennedy Presidential $1 Coins and their surprisingly weak sales start. They rose another 387,900 in their first full week of availability to just over 1.92 million coins. That’s still slow. The past two dollars honoring Truman and Eisenhower scored higher sales during their first few days of release.
Returning briefly to the Harry S. Truman Coin & Chronicles Set, Stump said in an email on Wednesday that 16,780 of the 17,000 sets sold in approximately 15 minutes. See photos of the set and more sales info.
The set is listed on the Mint’s website as “currently unavailable” with a remind me button.
Remember what the mint did with the silver Kennedy sets and Gold kennedy coins from 2014.... decided after the fact to lower the mintages because they were too enthusiastic with their original max mintage figures. Are we going to see Jackie drop from 30,000 to 20,000 or so mintage here soon because the mint once again got a little too excited with the popularity of its product?
Or, just watch it perform along the lines of the gold JFK?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
When collectors feel that the Mint is "playing games" or that it is an unfair playing field on a product for whatever reason, it can have a devastating, long lasting effect on the product. Please take notice MINT!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>Quite a week of returns... what is that about 700 spouse coins returned to the mint in a week??
Wondercoin >>
Reported sales for the 2013/14 Spouses have been fluctuating up and down for the past four weeks, often by dozens of coins for some of the issues. I think it's less about recent returns and more about reconciling reported sales with actual sales.
The Mint site is showing *1* Florence Harding proof remaining for sale. If the latest sales numbers hold up, final mintage should be 2368, or nine less than the Eleanor Roosevelt proof.
<<"Adam Stump, the U.S. Mint deputy director for the Office of Corporate Communications, released the following statement on Tuesday that describes what happened:
"The Mint underestimated the initial demand for the 2015 First Spouse Series One-Half Ounce Gold Coins — Jacqueline Kennedy and, unfortunately, the products went on back order very quickly after sales started. As of this morning (June 30), additional product is arriving at our distribution center in Memphis that will clear a majority of the backorders. The Mint has resumed production and we expect to fulfill all customer demand in the coming days and weeks. We apologize to our customers for the delay.">>
Sorry Adam, your explanation of what happened is anything but. It could even be interpreted as obfuscation and deflecting attention elsewhere. Someone might go so far as to accuse you of lying by omission.
Underestimating demand would not have resulted in instant back order status at 1 second past the opening of 12 noon. You don't have to be Perry Mason to see that the "fix" had to be in. Proof, you say? Hundreds of graded coins on sale from several dealers 5 or 6 days after release with First Day Of Issue labeling. If you use the Truman C&C as a comparison, it took 15 minutes to sell out. If the Jackie Proofs took the same 15 minutes there would be almost no discontent and Adam's excuse would have held up to scrutiny. I can't believe the contempt Adam shows toward collectors. Does he believe we don't talk to each other? Does he think we are just gullible marks too stupid to see something was wrong with what happened? Shame on you Adam.
<< <i>The Mint site is showing *1* Florence Harding proof remaining for sale. If the latest sales numbers hold up, final mintage should be 2368, or nine less than the Eleanor Roosevelt proof.
Also, Florence Harding has a nicer looking hat. >>
What's happen to those 56 coins returned to the mint?
NEW COIN WORLD VOICES ARTICLE BY Louis GolinoLINK Clarifications of what happened. Still not the full story. Mint Gift Shop availability does not explain sales of all in stock coins. Surely the entire stock was not sent to Washington, DC, Philadelphia, and Denver with nothing left to phone and internet orders. Really? All Proof examples were sold in person to dealer bused in line standers? Again? After the bad experience of the Gold Kennedy Halves? Really? Come on Adam. Dribs and drabs of half truths just doesn't cut it.
I am told that Philly told a collector/investor who wanted to buy some Jackie coins that they were getting in a total of "10" proofs for sale to the public. When he got there, he bought -6- units ... all that were left (including the display coin). He shipped me the (6) coins to submit for grading at PCGS.
Could he be lying to me? Obviously anything is possible. But, I would sure like to hear from Adam Stump exactly how many coins were available in Philly, etc. for collectors. This entire picture is simply not "adding up" in my mind.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>Whatever Coin ends up being the low mintage - we can be assured some Dealer or Dealers will be holding 1,000 or more of that issue.
The US Mint is having an orgy with Dealers now. They wont get out of bed for a few more years.
>>
You think that they will have nearly 50% or more of the issue saved eating away at their available capital? I would be shocked, but again it is the mint, you never know what has been said or arranged...
Comments
<< <i>MCM was showing a ship date as July 2 for NGC graded coins. How in the hell do they not only have the coins back from the mint but also GRADED and expected shipping on July 2nd when this thing was backordered from the first second it was on sale.
Did the mint allow the authorized purchasers, who already get a discount, to also gobble up all supply before it went on sale to the public?
Link >>
Curious. Does anyone know what the authorized purchaser discount is? Is this new?
the rest are ready for shipping. How is that possible? >>
Probably those coins are return/rejected from dealer not getting 70. >>
Thats really sad and probably true.
<< <i>
<< <i>MCM was showing a ship date as July 2 for NGC graded coins. How in the hell do they not only have the coins back from the mint but also GRADED and expected shipping on July 2nd when this thing was backordered from the first second it was on sale.
Did the mint allow the authorized purchasers, who already get a discount, to also gobble up all supply before it went on sale to the public?
Link >>
Curious. Does anyone know what the authorized purchaser discount is? Is this new? >>
Mint Page Link
The Authorized Dealers are for Gold, Silver and Platinum bullion distribution. The first Spouse coins are not considered bullion.
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
<< <i>I have a hard time believing that MCM or other dealers have been selling some of the spouses just under mint issue price after its been graded a 69. They must get that 5% discount on the spouses as well. >>
Does anyone know the answer to the 5% dealer discount on Spouses?
eBay listings
I hope the answer will be revealed through blogs or Coin World investigation. Hinges on if they ask the hard questions and don't except the PR BS response like "unanticipated demand" crapola that was the quick explanation of what happened from the mint spokesman.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>Bulk is different from Authorized Dealer. >>
Exactly- I'm thinking the dealers who had early access are the Authorized Bullion dealers, not the bulk dealers.
eBay listings
<< <i>
<< <i>Bulk is different from Authorized Dealer. >>
Exactly- I'm thinking the dealers who had early access are the Authorized Bullion dealers, not the bulk dealers. >>
H'uh?
Only Authorized Dealers are authorized to distribute bullion type coinage. Regular people have to buy from them...the mint won't sell bullion type coins to regular people. The Jackies are not bullion type coins. Bulk dealers must have had early access to deplete available stock at or before the noon release.
jawapez, originally you said that Spouses had been on the bulk available list previously but the Jackies are not on that list and your fiend had to order like everybody else.
So if the Jackies are not bullion that leaves out the Authorized Dealers as the culprits (this time). They are not on the bulk list so that eliminates the bulk dealers. Leaving the mystery of who and how they got all the available PF's at release? The dealers (like MCM) who are advertising in stock and for sale, most likely, purchased from the "who" with extraordinary access which justifies the high selling prices.
Who is "who"? How were they granted extraordinary access?
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
<< <i>MCM is an AD. Judging from how many were on ebay, they purchased somewhere in the range of 550 coins.
If they are an AD and a "bulk dealer" then we wont know which it is. We do know that they have plenty of coins graded and available though. >>
MCM is not an Authorized Dealer.
"There are a total of eight gold authorized purchasers, 12 for silver and six for platinum. Three firms are outside the United States.
They are:
• A-Mark Precious Metals of Santa Monica, Calif. It is authorized to purchase gold, silver and platinum.
• American Precious Metals Exchange, Inc., of Oklahoma City, Okla. Silver Eagles only.
• Coins ‘N’ Things, Inc., of Bridgewater, Mass. Gold, silver and platinum.
• Dillon Gage Inc. of Dallas, Texas. Silver only.
• Fidelitrade, Inc. of Wilmington, Del. Silver only.
• Jack Hunt Coin Broker, Inc., of Kenmore, N.Y. Silver only.
• MTB of New York. Gold, silver and platinum.
• Prudential Securities, Inc., of New York. Gold, silver and platinum.
• Scotia Mocatta of New York. Gold silver and platinum.
• The Gold Center of Springfield, Ill., Silver only."
They could be a bulk dealer but it was said that the Jackies were not on the bulk available list. They also sent emails to some of their customers offering to buy their 5 coin allotments. This is how they got most of their stock.
<< <i>
Only Authorized Dealers are authorized to distribute bullion type coinage. Regular people have to buy from them...the mint won't sell bullion type coins to regular people. The Jackies are not bullion type coins. Bulk dealers must have had early access to deplete available stock at or before the noon release.
>>
Just because First Spouses aren't technically bullion doesn't eliminate ADs. I'm guessing that only ADs have the means to pull something like this off- direct contact with reps at the Mint who could arrange such a transaction. My friend, who is a bulk dealer and occasionally buys First Spouses on the bulk program, does not have that sort of relationship with the Mint and was not contacted with any sort of early offer. Unless the Mint reached out to specific dealers offering this arrangement, it's really hard for me to see how this could have anything to do with bulk dealers.
Here's my best guess at what happened: Certain ADs had the great idea that "First Day" Jackie proofs would be a great product. However, there's normally no way to get First Day spouses. So they approached the Mint offering a deal. They would spend $X (millions) if the the Mint could get them First Day coins. The Mint agreed. This arrangement depleted the initial stock, but the Mint had enough advance notice to get more coins into production, hence the proof backorders beginning to be filled today.
I was joking to my friend early on about how paranoid people were being about that backorders, but once the big dealers started having graded coins in stock so quickly, it became clear that something fishy happened. Now I'm a conspiracy theorist too.
eBay listings
<< <i>They could be a bulk dealer but it was said that the Jackies were not on the bulk available list. They also sent emails to some of their customers offering to buy their 5 coin allotments. This is how they got most of their stock. >>
MCM's offer to buy 5 coin allotments was for Truman C&C sets- they only buy stock from customers when the product has household limits. MCM is a bulk dealer. I assumed their owner, GovMint, is an AD, but they're not on the list you provided. I wonder how often the Mint updates the list.
eBay listings
The dealer I referred to who is on the bulk program but was not able to buy Jackie through the bulk program is L&C Coins. They've now made a public comment about the proof Jackie fiasco:
L&C Coins Facebook
eBay listings
The term is Authorized Purchaser and that is ONLY for the bullion program. (Sold by spot + mark up) (not sold online) (sold by monster box)
"Dealers" can get a quantity discount of 10%, I think. I don't know the quantity, I don't know how they determine who is a dealer, etc.
My concern is they may be showing preferential treatment of the big dealers with these coins. The preferential treatment I would care about is if they pre-sold an allotment to larger dealers in some kind of new agreement with them. Generally, even the mint kiosks have to order via Memphis, however they can order before the on-sale date to allow for delivery before that same date. If the mint has changed practices and is allowing an allotment to go to big dealers on the day of the sale, then I would object. Only the mint should have special order routes and the dealers, even the big ones, should have to fight the order system at 12:00:00 like every one else.
But at this point we only have suspicions.
Just my two cents. Wondercoin.
bob
<< <i>Proof order shipped today!
bob
Just checked the Mint.......I ordered one of each after 5:00pm EST on June 25, opening day!
If a 100 coin limit per order was maintained, it's unlikely that a few individual's orders would not have snuck in as well - but we have no reports of individual orders being filled in the first few minutes.
Considering the shipping and travel times involved, it's even more curious how any dealer could get their hands on the coins, ship them to a grading company, and have them back in-hand for immediate sale on ebay within 4 days max.
The combination of all three of these interesting circumstances clearly tells the story that the rules were bent for someone special. My personal opinion (not being one of these special customers), is that the Mint shouldn't expect the rest of us non-special customers to cut them any slack and the marketers of these overpriced early offerings should be avoided, now and in the future.
At this point, if my order isn't absolutely perfect, the coins are going back. I don't really need a $300 label either.
I knew it would happen.
It's impossible to stay in business like this.
$785 for wire??? That's $15 over cost of coin.....plus add S&H, grading fees, special label.....this is crazy.
MCM First Spouse Link
<< <i>Received email from MCM: Jackie Proofs and UNCs on sale below issue price. Guess they get a discount or just want to sell clear non-70s near issue or both. Nice opportunity to pick one up in OGP for those who don't want to grade. >>
What a crazy business, I'm still amazed how quick the Mint placates(sucks up to) these big players.
Maybe i'm looking at things differently, I would like to see "Jackie" in flowing robes like Lady Liberty. The new designs look flat to my eyes.
pick them up and mail them back on that day. The whole thing about being on Back Order and no explanations has
me a little ill about the US Mint. Depending on further B.O. status I may be done with the US Mint and their First
Spouse Gold.
I don't care to do business with sell-outs.
<< <i>Well I suppose my 1 Proof and 3 BU Jackies will be at the Post Office by Monday. I have the day off Tuesday so I'll
pick them up and mail them back on that day. The whole thing about being on Back Order and no explanations has
me a little ill about the US Mint. Depending on further B.O. status I may be done with the US Mint and their First
Spouse Gold.
I don't care to do business with sell-outs.
Mine arrived UPS. Far greater pain to pick up than USPS for me.
<< <i>
<< <i>Received email from MCM: Jackie Proofs and UNCs on sale below issue price. Guess they get a discount or just want to sell clear non-70s near issue or both. Nice opportunity to pick one up in OGP for those who don't want to grade. >>
What a crazy business, I'm still amazed how quick the Mint placates(sucks up to) these big players. >>
I'd buy a PR-69 for less than the issue price. The trouble is I don't care for certified modern coins. I like the original mint package.
by Mike Unser on July 2, 2015
It’s been a fun week for collectors. Last Thursday’s excitement over the new Jacqueline Kennedy First Spouse Gold Coins was eclipsed on Tuesday by the 15-minute sellout of the Harry S. Truman Coin & Chronicles Set.
Sales of the proof and uncirculated Jacqueline Kennedy coins reached 10,894 on the first day. Another 1,114 sold through Sunday, the latest sales figures from the U.S. Mint show, lifting their total to 12,008 coins or 40% of the authorized 30,000.
Both coins remain on back order. The proof edition was tagged with the status straight out of the sales gate. Adam Stump, the U.S. Mint deputy director for the Office of Corporate Communications, released the following statement on Tuesday that describes what happened:
"The Mint underestimated the initial demand for the 2015 First Spouse Series One-Half Ounce Gold Coins — Jacqueline Kennedy and, unfortunately, the products went on back order very quickly after sales started. As of this morning (June 30), additional product is arriving at our distribution center in Memphis that will clear a majority of the backorders. The Mint has resumed production and we expect to fulfill all customer demand in the coming days and weeks. We apologize to our customers for the delay."
In related news, in last week’s sales article we talked about John F. Kennedy Presidential $1 Coins and their surprisingly weak sales start. They rose another 387,900 in their first full week of availability to just over 1.92 million coins. That’s still slow. The past two dollars honoring Truman and Eisenhower scored higher sales during their first few days of release.
Returning briefly to the Harry S. Truman Coin & Chronicles Set, Stump said in an email on Wednesday that 16,780 of the 17,000 sets sold in approximately 15 minutes. See photos of the set and more sales info.
The set is listed on the Mint’s website as “currently unavailable” with a remind me button.
Coin News Link
Wondercoin
Or, just watch it perform along the lines of the gold JFK?
Wondercoin
This issue feels lifeless, suspended in space with the Hags attached to it like an aimless satellite.
<< <i>Quite a week of returns... what is that about 700 spouse coins returned to the mint in a week??
Wondercoin >>
My uncs should arrive back at the Fulfillment Center on Wed.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
This issue feels lifeless, suspended in space with the Hags attached to it like an aimless satellite."
Let's see how long it takes for the reduced mintage figures out of the Mint - it took just 2-3 weeks for the silver Kennedy sets in 2014!!
Hey, I could be wrong, but if I am not ... I called it first. LOL.
Wondercoin
<< <i>Quite a week of returns... what is that about 700 spouse coins returned to the mint in a week??
Wondercoin >>
Reported sales for the 2013/14 Spouses have been fluctuating up and down for the past four weeks, often by dozens of coins for some of the issues. I think it's less about recent returns and more about reconciling reported sales with actual sales.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Also, Florence Harding has a nicer looking hat.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
"The Mint underestimated the initial demand for the 2015 First Spouse Series One-Half Ounce Gold Coins — Jacqueline Kennedy and, unfortunately, the products went on back order very quickly after sales started. As of this morning (June 30), additional product is arriving at our distribution center in Memphis that will clear a majority of the backorders. The Mint has resumed production and we expect to fulfill all customer demand in the coming days and weeks. We apologize to our customers for the delay.">>
Sorry Adam, your explanation of what happened is anything but. It could even be interpreted as obfuscation and deflecting attention elsewhere. Someone might go so far as to accuse you of lying by omission.
Underestimating demand would not have resulted in instant back order status at 1 second past the opening of 12 noon. You don't have to be Perry Mason to see that the "fix" had to be in. Proof, you say? Hundreds of graded coins on sale from several dealers 5 or 6 days after release with First Day Of Issue labeling. If you use the Truman C&C as a comparison, it took 15 minutes to sell out. If the Jackie Proofs took the same 15 minutes there would be almost no discontent and Adam's excuse would have held up to scrutiny. I can't believe the contempt Adam shows toward collectors. Does he believe we don't talk to each other? Does he think we are just gullible marks too stupid to see something was wrong with what happened? Shame on you Adam.
<< <i>The Mint site is showing *1* Florence Harding proof remaining for sale. If the latest sales numbers hold up, final mintage should be 2368, or nine less than the Eleanor Roosevelt proof.
Also, Florence Harding has a nicer looking hat.
What's happen to those 56 coins returned to the mint?
Last week was the third MAJOR revision to the sales data since the beginning of the year.
16 left at the mint as of right now.
If Truman doesnt come back, it will be the low. Decisions, decisions...
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
<< <i>If Truman doesnt come back, it will be the low. Decisions, decisions... >>
I think more Truman proofs will be struck. They're already striking more Jackies, so striking additional Trumans shouldn't be a big deal for the Mint.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I don't do business with dealers who play games.
I typically just do business with people who recognize the value of a relationship.
The mint has undermined it's credibility this time around , IMO, and its time for me to take another very long break from collecting moderns.
The last time I did that was in '76-95....If its as long as that, I guess I'll be back in '34... that is, if I'm around that long.
Clarifications of what happened. Still not the full story. Mint Gift Shop availability does not explain sales of all in stock coins. Surely the entire stock was not sent to Washington, DC, Philadelphia, and Denver with nothing left to phone and internet orders. Really? All Proof examples were sold in person to dealer bused in line standers? Again? After the bad experience of the Gold Kennedy Halves? Really? Come on Adam. Dribs and drabs of half truths just doesn't cut it.
Could he be lying to me? Obviously anything is possible. But, I would sure like to hear from Adam Stump exactly how many coins were available in Philly, etc. for collectors. This entire picture is simply not "adding up" in my mind.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
In the past 48 hours, Coolidge has sold roughly 13 coins. This is over 2 weeks of "normal" sales activity.
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
1,000 or more of that issue.
The US Mint is having an orgy with Dealers now. They wont get out of bed for a few more years.
<< <i>Whatever Coin ends up being the low mintage - we can be assured some Dealer or Dealers will be holding
1,000 or more of that issue.
The US Mint is having an orgy with Dealers now. They wont get out of bed for a few more years.
You think that they will have nearly 50% or more of the issue saved eating away at their available capital? I would be shocked, but again it is the mint, you never know what has been said or arranged...
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole