dolomite, are you the ebay seller of this bar? If not, do you know the seller?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
major bidders...as in the ones that bid the higher dollar amounts. i didn't look at the low dollar bids. "closeness" with the seller...as in a high percentage of their total eBay bids were with this seller.
I'm absolutely def not accusing you, or anyone specifically of shilling this item. Im just pointing out what i see as some irregular bidding activities. I'm just doing my due diligence. Especially in this day and age with bidding on the internet and what goes on. Before spending $4-6,000 or higher. And leaving it for others to decide on their own before spending a lot of money. People on this forum have def looked out for me and saved me from some bad buys. Just being cautious and doing the same. Shilling is a "conspiracy" and a reality.
I'll echo.."dolomite, are you the ebay seller of this bar? If not, do you know the seller?"
Interested in higher grade vintage cards. Aren't we all.
<< <i>dolomite, are you the ebay seller of this bar? If not, do you know the seller? >>
I am not the seller of the bar, mine is 353229 but I do know the seller of this example. He's an advanced collector and is the same seller that provided Silver Baron his 50oz extruded bar 000767 this past month.
I expected back end bidding on 2oz and surprised to see this kind of action at this point in the game. I would be even more surprised if it is bid any higher prior to hammer. I agree with common consensus this is a 3-4k bar despite once in a lifetime opportunity to own it.
<< <i>dolomite, are you the ebay seller of this bar? If not, do you know the seller? >>
Mind your business... >>
Stalker1, it's the bidness of anyone bidding.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
lol, this is rich (no pun intended, Rich). OGIM knows the seller of the bar and he knows him well enough as the seller of a bar to SB.
dolomite knows the seller and he knows that SB doesn't own a 2 ozer but that SB did buy a 50 ozer from the same seller. And you must pay attention, because he's the self-appointed arbiter of who's telling the truth and who ain't.
rawteam doesn't think it's any of derryb's business who is selling the bar on ebay, even though rawteam would chew off his left arm to have derryb as a customer.
POM thinks it's funny that dolomite can accuse SB of lying with no actual proof, even though POM cries about it whenever anyone piles on him.
It's a good thing there's no duplicity here. Naw, there's no chance of any shilling going on in this auction. Nothing to see here.
What's that old poker wisdom?
If you sit down at the table where everybody knows everybody except you, and if you don't know who the mark is, it's you.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
If you sit down at the table where everybody knows everybody except you, and if you don't know who the mark is, it's you. >>
Sound advice!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>A lot for this bar but still less than initial offering... >>
You're right as the reserve on the initial offering must have been at least $6,000. That said, final hammer was $2,000 more than I anticipated back in February.
Seller left $900 on the table (between listings)..... by having a reserve the first time he listed, it bid to $5,899.....no reserve this time 'round, bid up to 'just' $5,000 even.
I suspect spot has nothing to do with the price paid. It was bought as an investment based on rarity, not as an investment in a precious metal.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Silverbaron is offering to pay $4,000 for 2 oz silver examples. He clearly has been in the business for a long time and understands rarity.
Lets see if your theory that "there's a load of these bars just awaiting" pans out as the lure of a $4,000 to $5,000 payday is hard to resist
This will certainly be the draw. Let's see what come out of old cabinets now that a price point has now been established. Let's give it 3 months for word to spread and time for people who think they have one to find it and offer it.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
<< <i>Silverbaron is offering to pay $4,000 for 2 oz silver examples. He clearly has been in the business for a long time and understands rarity.
Lets see if your theory that "there's a load of these bars just awaiting" pans out as the lure of a $4,000 to $5,000 payday is hard to resist
This will certainly be the draw. Let's see what come out of old cabinets now that a price point has now been established. Let's give it 3 months for word to spread and time for people who think they have one to find it and offer it. >>
I believe another member beside myself had standing ~3k offers for 4oz and 7oz bars when the market on these peaked. I won't speak for my fellow collector but I only had one lead.
<< <i>Silverbaron is offering to pay $4,000 for 2 oz silver examples. He clearly has been in the business for a long time and understands rarity.
Lets see if your theory that "there's a load of these bars just awaiting" pans out as the lure of a $4,000 to $5,000 payday is hard to resist >>
The "lure" was only lowered into the small pond of this forum. Doubtful there's a load of these bars among the limited number of readers. Doesn't mean there's not a load in the big ocean.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Silverbaron is offering to pay $4,000 for 2 oz silver examples. He clearly has been in the business for a long time and understands rarity.
Lets see if your theory that "there's a load of these bars just awaiting" pans out as the lure of a $4,000 to $5,000 payday is hard to resist >>
The "lure" was only lowered into the small pond of this forum. Doubtful there's a load of these bars among the limited number of readers. Doesn't mean there's not a load in the big ocean. >>
Exactly what I was thinking as well. Way too many folks out there that don't frequent these forums.
Exactly what I was thinking as well. Way too many folks out there that don't frequent these forums
You may be forgetting one key factor. Forget these rinky-dink Forums where there's only a few hundred people consistently on them. Where was the bar sold...EBAY! Where billions of people visit daily. That's why I say the word will spread quickly because of where it sold. If people have them, they're surely turning over the house looking for them. The flipside is if none, or only 1 or 2 of them are offered on eBay in the next 3 months that will tell you that the population is still miniscule. There may end up being 6, but how many 1913 Liberty Nickels are there?
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
<< <i>Silverbaron is offering to pay $4,000 for 2 oz silver examples. He clearly has been in the business for a long time and understands rarity. N
Lets see if your theory that "there's a load of these bars just awaiting" pans out as the lure of a $4,000 to $5,000 payday is hard to resist >>
The "lure" was only lowered into the small pond of this forum. Doubtful there's a load of these bars among the limited number of readers. Doesn't mean there's not a load in the big ocean. >>
By your reasoning Silverbaron should not expect to be overwhelmed with offers from forum members.
A better, but far from perfect, test will be if any examples show up for sale on ebay. I imagine that more than a few in that far larger audience noticed (and may be lured by) the $5,000 final price.
The existence of a load of examples in the wider world cannot be proven or disproven. You can assume such a load exists while others may not.
What I can say with certainty is that I have seen photographs of only 3 examples so far.
<< <i>Silverbaron is offering to pay $4,000 for 2 oz silver examples. He clearly has been in the business for a long time and understands rarity. N
Lets see if your theory that "there's a load of these bars just awaiting" pans out as the lure of a $4,000 to $5,000 payday is hard to resist >>
The "lure" was only lowered into the small pond of this forum. Doubtful there's a load of these bars among the limited number of readers. Doesn't mean there's not a load in the big ocean. >>
By your reasoning Silverbaron should not expect to be overwhelmed with offers from forum members.
A better, but far from perfect, test will be if any examples show up for sale on ebay. I imagine that more than a few in that far larger audience noticed (and may be lured by) the $5,000 final price.
The existence of a load of examples in the wider world cannot be proven or disproven. You can assume such a load exists while others may not.
What I can say with certainty is that I have seen photographs of only 3 examples so far. >>
I'm not assuming there is a load any more than I am assuming there are only three. I am assuming that it's a bigger world than just this forum.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Silverbaron is offering to pay $4,000 for 2 oz silver examples. He clearly has been in the business for a long time and understands rarity. N
Lets see if your theory that "there's a load of these bars just awaiting" pans out as the lure of a $4,000 to $5,000 payday is hard to resist >>
The "lure" was only lowered into the small pond of this forum. Doubtful there's a load of these bars among the limited number of readers. Doesn't mean there's not a load in the big ocean. >>
By your reasoning Silverbaron should not expect to be overwhelmed with offers from forum members.
A better, but far from perfect, test will be if any examples show up for sale on ebay. I imagine that more than a few in that far larger audience noticed (and may be lured by) the $5,000 final price.
The existence of a load of examples in the wider world cannot be proven or disproven. You can assume such a load exists while others may not.
What I can say with certainty is that I have seen photographs of only 3 examples so far. >>
I'm not assuming there is a load any more than I am assuming there are only three. I am assuming that it's a bigger world than just this forum. >>
We are certainly in agreement that the discussion here, other metals forums and even ebay won't reach all that many people.
Recall 4oz Engelhard bars peaked 3k+ for cleaned four-digit serial just a few years ago, estimated mintage of <1,000 total bars of all variety. I believe it reasonable to understand a 2oz bar, 4x more rare based on most liberal of mintage estimates, fetched less than double that on public auction, despite corrected market. I welcome additional documented examples to surface and provide further insight on production and current market value.
<< <i>Exactly what I was thinking as well. Way too many folks out there that don't frequent these forums
You may be forgetting one key factor. Forget these rinky-dink Forums where there's only a few hundred people consistently on them. Where was the bar sold...EBAY! Where billions of people visit daily. That's why I say the word will spread quickly because of where it sold. If people have them, they're surely turning over the house looking for them. The flipside is if none, or only 1 or 2 of them are offered on eBay in the next 3 months that will tell you that the population is still miniscule. There may end up being 6, but how many 1913 Liberty Nickels are there? >>
No, I am not forgetting ebay. Not everyone is anal about going there daily, or weekly. Not every hoarder over time does that. Not everyone goes to ebay and does ages old searches to see what they missed.
If someone is at the stage to sell, and they are an ebay user who knows even a little bit about using ebay, then, yes, they may do the searches (both current and past). The vocal people of this forum, are likely near the top of being nosy busybodies in the market and searching ebay. It does NOT apply to every single person who may have any given item at any given time.
As I peruse this thread, I get the nagging feeling that I have, in fact, seen one of these bars before. It would have been at the Albany, NY coin show maybe 10 years ago. It was in a dealers case with a bunch of other silver and I think I remember it because of its odd size and shape. Could I say now it was an Engelhard logo? No. Not absolutely.
But it probably was, simply because it wasn't much over spot and I did not buy it.
The 2 ounce Engelhard that hit $5,000 on ebay is for sale again. Different seller and no reserve
Nothing like taking a $1800 hit (inc. fees) on a single item thinking it could be flippped in a couple months. This is why I stay away from these, way too much risk for me.
<< <i>The 2 ounce Engelhard that hit $5,000 on ebay is for sale again. Different seller and no reserve
Nothing like taking a $1800 hit (inc. fees) on a single item thinking it could be flippped in a couple months. This is why I stay away from these, way too much risk for me.
Pieces, talking to those who should know indicates the listing was bogus. Someone recycled the photograph - not the actual owner. Revisit the links. Ebay apparently took down the auction.
Comments
<< <i>poof >>
Like a prom dress.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
"closeness" with the seller...as in a high percentage of their total eBay bids were with this seller.
I'm absolutely def not accusing you, or anyone specifically of shilling this item. Im just pointing out what i see as some irregular bidding activities. I'm just doing my due diligence. Especially in this day and age with bidding on the internet and what goes on. Before spending $4-6,000 or higher.
And leaving it for others to decide on their own before spending a lot of money.
People on this forum have def looked out for me and saved me from some bad buys. Just being cautious and doing the same. Shilling is a "conspiracy" and a reality.
I'll echo.."dolomite, are you the ebay seller of this bar? If not, do you know the seller?"
<< <i>dolomite, are you the ebay seller of this bar? If not, do you know the seller? >>
I do not presume to speak for Dolomite but I know Dolomite and the ebay seller are different parties.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
<< <i>dolomite, are you the ebay seller of this bar? If not, do you know the seller? >>
(Duplicate post.)
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
<< <i>dolomite, are you the ebay seller of this bar? If not, do you know the seller? >>
I am not the seller of the bar, mine is 353229 but I do know the seller of this example. He's an advanced collector and is the same seller that provided Silver Baron his 50oz extruded bar 000767 this past month.
I expected back end bidding on 2oz and surprised to see this kind of action at this point in the game. I would be even more surprised if it is bid any higher prior to hammer. I agree with common consensus this is a 3-4k bar despite once in a lifetime opportunity to own it.
<< <i>dolomite, are you the ebay seller of this bar? If not, do you know the seller? >>
Mind your business...
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
<< <i>
<< <i>dolomite, are you the ebay seller of this bar? If not, do you know the seller? >>
Mind your business... >>
Stalker1, it's the bidness of anyone bidding.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
So we know that SB physically owns at least one bar he's posted here??? (sorry, just can't help myself)
<< <i>He's an advanced collector and is the same seller that provided Silver Baron his 50oz extruded bar 000767 this past month
So we know that SB physically owns at least one bar he's posted here??? (sorry, just can't help myself)
U b a bad boy
lol, this is rich (no pun intended, Rich). OGIM knows the seller of the bar and he knows him well enough as the seller of a bar to SB.
dolomite knows the seller and he knows that SB doesn't own a 2 ozer but that SB did buy a 50 ozer from the same seller. And you must pay attention, because he's the self-appointed arbiter of who's telling the truth and who ain't.
rawteam doesn't think it's any of derryb's business who is selling the bar on ebay, even though rawteam would chew off his left arm to have derryb as a customer.
POM thinks it's funny that dolomite can accuse SB of lying with no actual proof, even though POM cries about it whenever anyone piles on him.
It's a good thing there's no duplicity here. Naw, there's no chance of any shilling going on in this auction. Nothing to see here.
What's that old poker wisdom?
If you sit down at the table where everybody knows everybody except you, and if you don't know who the mark is, it's you.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
What's that old poker wisdom?
If you sit down at the table where everybody knows everybody except you, and if you don't know who the mark is, it's you. >>
Sound advice!
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
<< <i>A lot for this bar but still less than initial offering... >>
You're right as the reserve on the initial offering must have been at least $6,000. That said, final hammer was $2,000 more than I anticipated back in February.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
<< <i>Sold for $5,000. >>
Seller left $900 on the table (between listings)..... by having a reserve the first time he listed, it bid to $5,899.....no reserve this time 'round, bid up to 'just' $5,000 even.
<< <i>....Maybe I will print this thread out for them. >>
Oh no! God no!
If you do promise you'll burn it after they read it.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Lets see if your theory that "there's a load of these bars just awaiting" pans out as the lure of a $4,000 to $5,000 payday is hard to resist
This will certainly be the draw. Let's see what come out of old cabinets now that a price point has now been established. Let's give it 3 months for word to spread and time for people who think they have one to find it and offer it.
<< <i>Silverbaron is offering to pay $4,000 for 2 oz silver examples. He clearly has been in the business for a long time and understands rarity.
Lets see if your theory that "there's a load of these bars just awaiting" pans out as the lure of a $4,000 to $5,000 payday is hard to resist
This will certainly be the draw. Let's see what come out of old cabinets now that a price point has now been established. Let's give it 3 months for word to spread and time for people who think they have one to find it and offer it. >>
I believe another member beside myself had standing ~3k offers for 4oz and 7oz bars when the market on these peaked. I won't speak for my fellow collector but I only had one lead.
<< <i>Silverbaron is offering to pay $4,000 for 2 oz silver examples. He clearly has been in the business for a long time and understands rarity.
Lets see if your theory that "there's a load of these bars just awaiting" pans out as the lure of a $4,000 to $5,000 payday is hard to resist >>
The "lure" was only lowered into the small pond of this forum. Doubtful there's a load of these bars among the limited number of readers. Doesn't mean there's not a load in the big ocean.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>Silverbaron is offering to pay $4,000 for 2 oz silver examples. He clearly has been in the business for a long time and understands rarity.
Lets see if your theory that "there's a load of these bars just awaiting" pans out as the lure of a $4,000 to $5,000 payday is hard to resist >>
The "lure" was only lowered into the small pond of this forum. Doubtful there's a load of these bars among the limited number of readers. Doesn't mean there's not a load in the big ocean. >>
Exactly what I was thinking as well. Way too many folks out there that don't frequent these forums.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
You may be forgetting one key factor. Forget these rinky-dink Forums where there's only a few hundred people consistently on them. Where was the bar sold...EBAY! Where billions of people visit daily.
That's why I say the word will spread quickly because of where it sold. If people have them, they're surely turning over the house looking for them.
The flipside is if none, or only 1 or 2 of them are offered on eBay in the next 3 months that will tell you that the population is still miniscule. There may end up being 6, but how many 1913 Liberty Nickels are there?
<< <i>
<< <i>Silverbaron is offering to pay $4,000 for 2 oz silver examples. He clearly has been in the business for a long time and understands rarity. N
Lets see if your theory that "there's a load of these bars just awaiting" pans out as the lure of a $4,000 to $5,000 payday is hard to resist >>
The "lure" was only lowered into the small pond of this forum. Doubtful there's a load of these bars among the limited number of readers. Doesn't mean there's not a load in the big ocean. >>
By your reasoning Silverbaron should not expect to be overwhelmed with offers from forum members.
A better, but far from perfect, test will be if any examples show up for sale on ebay. I imagine that more than a few in that far larger audience noticed (and may be lured by) the $5,000 final price.
The existence of a load of examples in the wider world cannot be proven or disproven. You can assume such a load exists while others may not.
What I can say with certainty is that I have seen photographs of only 3 examples so far.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Silverbaron is offering to pay $4,000 for 2 oz silver examples. He clearly has been in the business for a long time and understands rarity. N
Lets see if your theory that "there's a load of these bars just awaiting" pans out as the lure of a $4,000 to $5,000 payday is hard to resist >>
The "lure" was only lowered into the small pond of this forum. Doubtful there's a load of these bars among the limited number of readers. Doesn't mean there's not a load in the big ocean. >>
By your reasoning Silverbaron should not expect to be overwhelmed with offers from forum members.
A better, but far from perfect, test will be if any examples show up for sale on ebay. I imagine that more than a few in that far larger audience noticed (and may be lured by) the $5,000 final price.
The existence of a load of examples in the wider world cannot be proven or disproven. You can assume such a load exists while others may not.
What I can say with certainty is that I have seen photographs of only 3 examples so far. >>
I'm not assuming there is a load any more than I am assuming there are only three. I am assuming that it's a bigger world than just this forum.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Silverbaron is offering to pay $4,000 for 2 oz silver examples. He clearly has been in the business for a long time and understands rarity. N
Lets see if your theory that "there's a load of these bars just awaiting" pans out as the lure of a $4,000 to $5,000 payday is hard to resist >>
The "lure" was only lowered into the small pond of this forum. Doubtful there's a load of these bars among the limited number of readers. Doesn't mean there's not a load in the big ocean. >>
By your reasoning Silverbaron should not expect to be overwhelmed with offers from forum members.
A better, but far from perfect, test will be if any examples show up for sale on ebay. I imagine that more than a few in that far larger audience noticed (and may be lured by) the $5,000 final price.
The existence of a load of examples in the wider world cannot be proven or disproven. You can assume such a load exists while others may not.
What I can say with certainty is that I have seen photographs of only 3 examples so far. >>
I'm not assuming there is a load any more than I am assuming there are only three. I am assuming that it's a bigger world than just this forum. >>
We are certainly in agreement that the discussion here, other metals forums and even ebay won't reach all that many people.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
<< <i>Exactly what I was thinking as well. Way too many folks out there that don't frequent these forums
You may be forgetting one key factor. Forget these rinky-dink Forums where there's only a few hundred people consistently on them. Where was the bar sold...EBAY! Where billions of people visit daily.
That's why I say the word will spread quickly because of where it sold. If people have them, they're surely turning over the house looking for them.
The flipside is if none, or only 1 or 2 of them are offered on eBay in the next 3 months that will tell you that the population is still miniscule. There may end up being 6, but how many 1913 Liberty Nickels are there? >>
No, I am not forgetting ebay.
Not everyone is anal about going there daily, or weekly. Not every hoarder over time does that.
Not everyone goes to ebay and does ages old searches to see what they missed.
If someone is at the stage to sell, and they are an ebay user who knows even a little bit about using ebay, then, yes, they may do the searches (both current and past). The vocal people of this forum, are likely near the top of being nosy busybodies in the market and searching ebay. It does NOT apply to every single person who may have any given item at any given time.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
But it probably was, simply because it wasn't much over spot and I did not buy it.
Engelhard 2 ounce Silver Bar Auction
Disclaimers: Not my auction and I don't know the seller.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
Nothing like taking a $1800 hit (inc. fees) on a single item thinking it could be flippped in a couple months. This is why I stay away from these, way too much risk for me.
Ouch!
My YouTube Channel
(yes, I'm bored)
My YouTube Channel
<< <i>The 2 ounce Engelhard that hit $5,000 on ebay is for sale again. Different seller and no reserve
Nothing like taking a $1800 hit (inc. fees) on a single item thinking it could be flippped in a couple months. This is why I stay away from these, way too much risk for me.
Ouch! >>
Pieces, talking to those who should know indicates the listing was bogus. Someone recycled the photograph - not the actual owner. Revisit the links. Ebay apparently took down the auction.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry