Its two years later and the 2 oz Engelhard bar that sold for $5,000 is back on the market. $5,151,51 with about 4 days to go. Sold for $5,000 in March 2015.> @PerryHall said:
@cmanbb said:
Did I miss something. Same seller who sold it March 2015 is selling it again in 2017.
A shill ran up the price and the owner then bought it back. Now with a historical record of a high sell price the owner is trying to sell it again. This ploy is frequently used with selling rare coins at auction---use shills to run up the price and then hope the price guides show the new record price and then sell it again after holding it for awhile.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Back in 2015 I opined that I thought these older 2 oz examples were worth around $3,000. That is what I would pay right now for the offered example. Clearly that is not likely.
Two of the three known are in extremely strong hands and it is safe to assume they are not for sale anytime soon.
I would like to see this third example find a new home to help me understand their collector value - assuming the known examples remain at 3.
FWIW, thanks to a bid retraction the current bid is $4,000.
I'd bet there's more 2oz bars out there. The owners are keeping it/them off the radar for obvious reasons.
I know of at least 3 variations/sizes of Engelhard bars where AE site shows 2 or 3 documented serial numbers OR only know examples because I own 3 of these said bars. In fact I own one bar listed as ONE KNOWN example (an AE plate bar) only to talk to a fellow collector who also owns one. Granted the 2oz bar is an oddity, but so are others with the same "documented" known examples. The 2oz bar along with the 4oz, & 7oz cousins get way too much hype IMHO
@cmanbb said:
I'd bet there's more 2oz bars out there. The owners are keeping it/them off the radar for obvious reasons.
I know of at least 3 variations/sizes of Engelhard bars where AE site shows 2 or 3 documented serial numbers OR only know examples because I own 3 of these said bars. In fact I own one bar listed as ONE KNOWN example (an AE plate bar) only to talk to a fellow collector who also owns one. Granted the 2oz bar is an oddity, but so are others with the same "documented" known examples. The 2oz bar along with the 4oz, & 7oz cousins get way too much hype IMHO
The collector who operates the AllEngelhard website will gladly update the list of known serial numbers when collectors provide serial numbers to add to the database. Its an excellent resource and continues to evolve. Bars listed as "one known" today can easily be revised as more examples surface.
Like any rarity its easy to speculate that more examples must exist - especially when its impossible to disprove such a claim. The facts remain the same - three imaged examples have surfaced. If other examples exist the persons with the greatest interest in keeping them quiet would be the owners of the known three examples. Anyone who just wanted to cash in on the "hype" would only have to shop them around with known collectors or offer them on ebay. That has not happened in the last two years.
Like I said earlier, I'm still ready to pay what I have said I believe these 2 oz bars are worth - that being $3,000.
@OnlyGoldIsMoney said: @cmanbb said:
I'd bet there's more 2oz bars out there. The owners are keeping it/them off the radar for obvious reasons.
I know of at least 3 variations/sizes of Engelhard bars where AE site shows 2 or 3 documented serial numbers OR only know examples because I own 3 of these said bars. In fact I own one bar listed as ONE KNOWN example (an AE plate bar) only to talk to a fellow collector who also owns one. Granted the 2oz bar is an oddity, but so are others with the same "documented" known examples. The 2oz bar along with the 4oz, & 7oz cousins get way too much hype IMHO
The collector who operates the AllEngelhard website will gladly update the list of known serial numbers when collectors provide serial numbers to add to the database. Its an excellent resource and continues to evolve. Bars listed as "one known" today can easily be revised as more examples surface.
Like any rarity its easy to speculate that more examples must exist - especially when its impossible to disprove such a claim. The facts remain the same - three imaged examples have surfaced. If other examples exist the persons with the greatest interest in keeping them quiet would be the owners of the known three examples. Anyone who just wanted to cash in on the "hype" would only have to shop them around with known collectors or offer them on ebay. That has not happened in the last two years.
Like I said earlier, I'm still ready to pay what I have said I believe these 2 oz bars are worth - that being $3,000.
Not arguing your points. Maybe the word "hype" was the wrong word.
But, there have been more artificial bids... um bid retractions, and now it's in your price range.
@OnlyGoldIsMoney said: @cmanbb said:
I'd bet there's more 2oz bars out there. The owners are keeping it/them off the radar for obvious reasons.
I know of at least 3 variations/sizes of Engelhard bars where AE site shows 2 or 3 documented serial numbers OR only know examples because I own 3 of these said bars. In fact I own one bar listed as ONE KNOWN example (an AE plate bar) only to talk to a fellow collector who also owns one. Granted the 2oz bar is an oddity, but so are others with the same "documented" known examples. The 2oz bar along with the 4oz, & 7oz cousins get way too much hype IMHO
The collector who operates the AllEngelhard website will gladly update the list of known serial numbers when collectors provide serial numbers to add to the database. Its an excellent resource and continues to evolve. Bars listed as "one known" today can easily be revised as more examples surface.
Like any rarity its easy to speculate that more examples must exist - especially when its impossible to disprove such a claim. The facts remain the same - three imaged examples have surfaced. If other examples exist the persons with the greatest interest in keeping them quiet would be the owners of the known three examples. Anyone who just wanted to cash in on the "hype" would only have to shop them around with known collectors or offer them on ebay. That has not happened in the last two years.
Like I said earlier, I'm still ready to pay what I have said I believe these 2 oz bars are worth - that being $3,000.
Not arguing your points. Maybe the word "hype" was the wrong word.
But, there have been more artificial bids... um bid retractions, and now it's in your price range.
Indeed, it is down to $3,150 thanks to more bid retractions. Now I will pay more attention to it. My guess is that the price discovery will occur in the last five seconds.
Indeed, it is down to $3,150 thanks to more bid retractions. Now I will pay more attention to it. My guess is that the price discovery will occur in the last five seconds.
My guess it will be "no longer available" prior to making the last 5 seconds
@rawteam1 said:
Did it ever really sell the first time 2 years ago???
No. this bar has appeared 3 times on eBay.
Fist time ended in Feb 2015....no sale, reserve not met at $5899.
Listed 1 week later, March 2015 at no reserve and sold for $5k.
Now on eBay at no reserve being offered from the same seller who sold it for $5k back in March 2015, and the high bidder now (with feedback of 16) appears to be the same bidder who pushed it to the $5k back in March 2015 (feedback of 16 also) OR just a coincident???
When it was supposedly sold in March 2015 it was BIG news that such a bar commanded a whopping $2500/oz.......it was all smoke & mirrors.
@piecesofme said:
When people retract their bid on my eBay auctions, I block them, even if it's just a $25 item.
Funny, but effective. I've been blocked for making a best offer on an item that's listed as such. If your gonna list something as $XXX or BO, be prepared for lots of BO......good, bad ,or ??
It's so lame how ebay doesn't keep sold listings on their site indefinitely, although for whatever reason some ended listings linger for years, like this one
@piecesofme said:
When people retract their bid on my eBay auctions, I block them, even if it's just a $25 item.
Funny, but effective. I've been blocked for making a best offer on an item that's listed as such. If your gonna list something as $XXX or BO, be prepared for lots of BO......good, bad ,or ??
More like be prepared for lots of BS lol. People who offer not even close to what something is going for get blocked too. They know how to check sold listings and get an idea what it's currently going for at any given time. If they want it badly enough, the seller will see legit offers roughly within 10-15% of what sold items show. Any more than that 15, or even 20% range are nothing but a complete waste of my time. If I have something listed, that means I want to sell it somewhat in the range of what sold listings show, not 70% back of that. I'll never be that desperate to have to sell anything that far back of what it's worth at that given point in time, let alone pm's.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
Comments
Its two years later and the 2 oz Engelhard bar that sold for $5,000 is back on the market. $5,151,51 with about 4 days to go. Sold for $5,000 in March 2015.> @PerryHall said:
PerryHall, your question of nearly two years ago is still pertinent today.
FWIW, the 2 oz Engelhard offered on ebay in March 2015 is available again on ebay. Bidding at $5,151.51 with four days to go.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Engelhard-2-Ounce-999-old-pour-Silver-Bar-The-Holy-Grail-Of-Engelhard-/272552901695?hash=item3f756b3c3f:g:FRUAAOSw3v5Yniur
Disclaimer: Not my auction or item.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
Did I miss something. Same seller who sold it March 2015 is selling it again in 2017.
A shill ran up the price and the owner then bought it back. Now with a historical record of a high sell price the owner is trying to sell it again. This ploy is frequently used with selling rare coins at auction---use shills to run up the price and then hope the price guides show the new record price and then sell it again after holding it for awhile.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
So this statement was meaningless???...
Back in 2015 I opined that I thought these older 2 oz examples were worth around $3,000. That is what I would pay right now for the offered example. Clearly that is not likely.
Two of the three known are in extremely strong hands and it is safe to assume they are not for sale anytime soon.
I would like to see this third example find a new home to help me understand their collector value - assuming the known examples remain at 3.
FWIW, thanks to a bid retraction the current bid is $4,000.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
I'd bet there's more 2oz bars out there. The owners are keeping it/them off the radar for obvious reasons.
I know of at least 3 variations/sizes of Engelhard bars where AE site shows 2 or 3 documented serial numbers OR only know examples because I own 3 of these said bars. In fact I own one bar listed as ONE KNOWN example (an AE plate bar) only to talk to a fellow collector who also owns one. Granted the 2oz bar is an oddity, but so are others with the same "documented" known examples. The 2oz bar along with the 4oz, & 7oz cousins get way too much hype IMHO
The collector who operates the AllEngelhard website will gladly update the list of known serial numbers when collectors provide serial numbers to add to the database. Its an excellent resource and continues to evolve. Bars listed as "one known" today can easily be revised as more examples surface.
Like any rarity its easy to speculate that more examples must exist - especially when its impossible to disprove such a claim. The facts remain the same - three imaged examples have surfaced. If other examples exist the persons with the greatest interest in keeping them quiet would be the owners of the known three examples. Anyone who just wanted to cash in on the "hype" would only have to shop them around with known collectors or offer them on ebay. That has not happened in the last two years.
Like I said earlier, I'm still ready to pay what I have said I believe these 2 oz bars are worth - that being $3,000.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
Not arguing your points. Maybe the word "hype" was the wrong word.
But, there have been more artificial bids... um bid retractions, and now it's in your price range.
Indeed, it is down to $3,150 thanks to more bid retractions. Now I will pay more attention to it. My guess is that the price discovery will occur in the last five seconds.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
My guess it will be "no longer available" prior to making the last 5 seconds
Did it ever really sell the first time 2 years ago???
When people retract their bid on my eBay auctions, I block them, even if it's just a $25 item.
No. this bar has appeared 3 times on eBay.
Fist time ended in Feb 2015....no sale, reserve not met at $5899.
Listed 1 week later, March 2015 at no reserve and sold for $5k.
Now on eBay at no reserve being offered from the same seller who sold it for $5k back in March 2015, and the high bidder now (with feedback of 16) appears to be the same bidder who pushed it to the $5k back in March 2015 (feedback of 16 also) OR just a coincident???
When it was supposedly sold in March 2015 it was BIG news that such a bar commanded a whopping $2500/oz.......it was all smoke & mirrors.
Funny, but effective. I've been blocked for making a best offer on an item that's listed as such. If your gonna list something as $XXX or BO, be prepared for lots of BO......good, bad ,or ??
It's so lame how ebay doesn't keep sold listings on their site indefinitely, although for whatever reason some ended listings linger for years, like this one
More like be prepared for lots of BS lol. People who offer not even close to what something is going for get blocked too. They know how to check sold listings and get an idea what it's currently going for at any given time. If they want it badly enough, the seller will see legit offers roughly within 10-15% of what sold items show. Any more than that 15, or even 20% range are nothing but a complete waste of my time. If I have something listed, that means I want to sell it somewhat in the range of what sold listings show, not 70% back of that. I'll never be that desperate to have to sell anything that far back of what it's worth at that given point in time, let alone pm's.