The Great Depression

dlimb2

What happened to Coin Collections back in the Great Depression. I know gold was forced to be traded for the paper dollar and became illegal to own, but what happened to peoples collections. Did they have to spend their collections.

DCW

All gold did not become illegal to own. There was an exception to FDR'S legislation that provided collectors grounds to keep their collectible coins. As I recall, it was one example of each date and mintmark.

savoyspecial

there was also an exclusion for the quarter eagle gold coin as I recall...


...and The Great Depression was a boom for hobbies in general (particularly stamp collecting) because people were not going out living it up on the town and instead had to find things to do in the house to pass time.....crossword puzzles also became very popular during this time for the same reason

BillJones

Some people spent coins from their collections.

Years ago the late coin dealer, Robert Bachelor, had an original 1904 Proof set minus the dollar. He told me that the family spent the dollar out of the set during The Great Depression.

So far as restrictions on holding quarter eagles, here is a quote from Section 5 (b) of Executive Order 6260:

"... further collectors of rare and unusual coin may acquire from one another and hold without necessity of obtaining a license therefore gold coin having a recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual gold (but not including quarter eagles otherwise known as $2.50 pieces, unless held, together with rare and unusual coin, as part of a collection for historical, scientific or numismatic purposes containing not more than four quarter eagles of the same date and design and struck by the same mint.)"

This is from page 250 of the 1949 Red Book. I have never heard a reasonable explanation for this policy. A dealer I knew years ago said that it was directed toward the Chinese who from what I had seen in the Boston area were great hoarders of gold, but I don't know if that is a valid rational for the government policy.

291fifth

B. Max Mehl's advertising in the general press did a lot to promote interest in coin collecting during the 1930's. In regard to stamp collecting, Franklin D. Roosevelt was a very active stamp collector and this fact was promoted to the public. The 1930's were a true boom time for stamp collecting. I believe there were several hundred stamp dealers operating on Nassau St. in New York city during that time.

TwoSides2aCoin

GOLD was NEVER illegal to own, perhaps ungodly.

ricko

I know many collectors - and others - retained their gold coins far beyond the quantity and types allowed. Cheers, RickO

WoodenJefferson

Many a Commemorative half dollar, like the Stone Mountain, Columbian Expedition were entered into circulation for a loaf of bread, eggs & flour.

dbcoin

aside from rare gold, every person was allowed $20 (1 oz) of gold to hold as well. If you account for inflation, that is more than the net worth of 1/2 of today's US households.

GeorgeKellogg

Some people actually became coin collectors because of FDR's Executive Order that recalled gold and gold certificates. One of the best examples is Louis Eliasberg. Coin collecting was actually quite popular during the Great Depression -- if one could afford to take coins out of circulation or purchase from dealers. It was definitely a buyers market, where a dollar went a long way -- if you had it.

dlimb2

I don't see how these times will be able to replicate the Great Depression, from what you Guys say, as far as holding on to the gold. If this world goes into a depression it will be far worse than the 1930's. Our Society has lived far to long on Plastic. Sad situation, just waiting to explode.

dlimb2

dbcoin, that is scary.

dlimb2

I heard that people who made it ok through the Depression were people who had their money in Insurance. I wonder if that is true. Do we have any Insurance Agents in the house?

coinkat

Sort of funny and timely that you should bring this up. I was watching Turner Classics this AM- Talk of the Town, (Columbia 1935) featuring Edward G. Robinson and Jean Arthur. Well, we Robinson was walking back up to his apartment that in a larger city, he passes a coins & Coins shop on the way- I was very surprised to see that

pennyannie

I thought we were in a depression now from the looks of things.

BStrauss3

From Text of the order (UCSB)



<< <i>Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve Bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:

(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.

(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having a recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.

(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign Government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.

(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and bullion imported for reexport or held pending action on applications for export licenses. >>



5 $20 gold pieces would have been about 4.84 ounces (AGW) or a little under $6K as of Friday's price.

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>I heard that people who made it ok through the Depression were people who had their money in Insurance. I wonder if that is true. Do we have any Insurance Agents in the house? >>



My grandfather Byron had a Minneapolis Moline Implement dealership. He lost it , not just because of the tight money, but the dust bowl. My dad (RIP) told me his brothers and he would heat paving bricks in the fire every day and wrap them in newspaper to put at the foot of their beds in order to keep warm during the cold winter nights. They had to go outside to the outhouse, too.

I'm sure WE haven't known the hardships of those days.

BillJones

<< <i>Some people actually became coin collectors because of FDR's Executive Order that recalled gold and gold certificates. One of the best examples is Louis Eliasberg. Coin collecting was actually quite popular during the Great Depression -- if one could afford to take coins out of circulation or purchase from dealers. It was definitely a buyers market, where a dollar went a long way -- if you had it. >>



Eliasberg became a collector so that he could hold gold. It worked out pretty well for his heirs.

dlimb2

TwoSides, I am sure there are many sad stories, that I hope never repeat themselves. I know we as a society are not as Agricultural knowledgeable as our parents and grand parents. We are a much more needy society we expect others to produce for us, this alone cripples us.We are a much larger society than the society of the Great Depression which will make it difficult if we were to acknowledge our true National condition.

dlimb2

How is it that they could collect coins. most people were hungry. How could they save, or pull from change. Most did not even have a dime. No jobs. How were they able to do it?

droopyd

I think a lot of "accumulations" were returned into circulation, but not so much "collections."

My Dad recalls receiving slick Indian cents, Shield and Liberty nickels and Seated and Barber coins (mostly dimes) in change in the late 30s/early 40s when he collected on his rounds for Liberty magazine.

Presumably, many of these were pulled out of circulation once they became obsolete "novelties," then returned back as needed. (He kept as many of the "obsolete" coins that he received as he could manage.)

291fifth

<< <i>How is it that they could collect coins. most people were hungry. How could they save, or pull from change. Most did not even have a dime. No jobs. How were they able to do it? >>



MOST people were not hungry. Unemployment was perhaps 33% when things were at their worst but that means that 67% still had jobs. One of my grandfathers worked for the Chicago Surface Lines (later the CTA) and had to work nights but always at least had a job. When the WWI veteran's bonus was paid he and the family took a vacation for the first time since the depression started. The veteran's bonus pumped a great deal of money back into the economy.

My other grandfather worked for the Illinois Central Railroad as a conductor and was never unemployed.

Prices were very low during the depression. If you had a real job you could get by.

dlimb2

I ask these questions because it is very possible we could reach a deeper depression than the last. My Grandparents were sharecroppers. They grew their own food. If they needed anything they would barter. They were poor to begin with and the depression really didn't bother them that much. They had food, shelter and made their own cloths. They traveled by wagon or walked, never had enough money for a car.

How different are we today than it was back then?

BLUEJAYWAY

Which one are we talking about? The 30's or the current one thats just better disguised with computers,I-Phones, and other cosmetic distractions/illusions.

OldIndianNutKase

My father collected coins during the Great Depression. My uncle bought farms and ranches for taxes during the Great Depression. Guess who came out ahead........

OINK

Lakesammman

If I asked my Dad or Grandparents why they didn't collect coins during the depression, they would have just laughed. There was no extra money to spend on something so frivolous. If you had a little extra, you would help your family and friends, not hoard it.

Best story my Dad told me about those times was the first time the bankers tried to auction off nearby farms that had been foreclosed.

First they hung the banker in effigy from the nearest tree. Then the farmers all agreed to bid no more than $1. After the first farm sold for $1, he said that was the last foreclosure farm auction in their county.

GrumpyEd

In some modern recession years there were less rolls saved and they have premiums.

I remember my dad telling me how in the great depression that his mom sent him to walk to the store with her shopping list.
He got home and gave her the change and receipt and she said they shorted him a penny and told him to walk back and tell them to give him the penny.
Hungry people would come to the door begging for food and grandma gave them bread or soup then saw that they made a mark on the fence. The marks were so they knew which house to come back to.
The beggars often offered to clean windows or the yard or anything for food.

dlimb2

Good stories, it is nice to remember.

dlimb2

double post.

BryceM

It's important to remember that the effects of the Great Depression were somewhat regional too. There were many areas where employment opportunities were reasonably good. Even before the depression, the overall standard of living in the US was much lower at the time than we currently enjoy. By current standards, almost everyone was destitute. A very large percentage of houses did not have indoor plumbing. Electricity was still making its way to some rural areas, the availability of goods and food items wasn't even a shadow of what we enjoy now, and medical care was primitive. Houses of the era were incredibly small, etc, etc. None of us today would be very comfortable living in those conditions....... then the depression hit and things got worse.

Could it happen again? Sure, but not exactly in the same way. The pressures and difficulties today would be different. People's willingness to be patient and work out their own problems would be virtually nil. Natural disasters now are cause for immediate government intervention to restore basic texting, video game, and entertainment services.

goldgirl

My Mother would tell us stories of the depression, and what happened when her daddy lost his job.
She said her daddy had to clean out the chicken coops so her brothers could stay in them in order to get "what she called pogey" basically gov. assistance.

She said her brothers would hunt for food for them to eat, and go by the train tracks at night to gather the coal that had fallen from the coal cars so they had some heat. My Mother passed away 3 years ago come Dec. at the age of 85, and would probably still be alive today if it had not been for a fall she took that caused an embolism to go to her lung.

The people we can hear the old stories from are quickly disappearing, so whenever an elderly person tells stories of how it used to be I ALWAYS listen to what they have to say...

dlimb2

I have my mother left she just turned 86. I take care of her. All the others are gone as well as their stories. I enjoy the stories too.

sellitstore

My mother in law's family owned a candy store in NYC during the Depression and got by but she had to eat the leftover ice cream many nights for dinner and consequently hated ice cream as an adult. My mother ate tomato sandwiches during the 1940s and 1950s because that's all she could afford. My dad managed to save enough to put away a few large size notes in the 1950s when he received them working as a bank teller. Partly because of that, I am now a rare currency dealer.

My grandfather came to the US in 1917 with $34 according to the ships manifest at the Ellis Island site. He managed to hold onto two French 20 Franc gold coins which were passed down to me. Since he lived in France for several years before coming to the US, I presume that he brought those gold coins with him and that was the $34 reported on the manifest. He managed to keep them through the Depression despite being poor.

Coupdescrounge

Social programs and government created demand much more rare leading up to it. So people naturally bare the whole thing out regardless of what lot you sat in. You didn't have the gov to turn to. There were county poor farms but most sane people stayed independent.

Deer and Turkey nearly extinct in short order ! A lot less pressure on the land in those days compared to our numbers now. Grandpa was a blacksmith with eight kids and no plumbing.
Dad, born in 26 and with two older brothers, ran to the war when it came, and sent the money back home. Heard a lot of stories about growing up with a shack full o' kids when money was scarce, but never a mention of collecting.

We're much more dependent upon the system and gadgets today BUT that is not all bad. There's plenty of good info out there on the airwaves, real innovative ideas for getting by are out there. Just make sure the pages are saved before the blackout !

BillJones

My father was the valedictorian of his high school class and won $75 in gold on graduation night. He put the money in bank in his home town that went belly up soon after he deposited it and lost it all. A very rich cousin, who had paid for him to go to a private high school was worth millions, offered to pay for college, but he refused to go. If he had accepted the offer I would not be here. One member of his high school class earned a PhD in history and another became a medial doctor. My father went home to work a family farm and okay with it financially. He was exempted from the draft during World War II because he was a farmer.

My parents were both fairly well off during The Great Depression compared to a lot of people. Years later one of their contemporaries told me that the people in the area thought mother's family was "rich." They had a big house, a store, ran the post office and a farm that was all free and clear.

Neither of my grandparents were ever close to losing their homes, but they had to do some belt tightening. My mother delayed going to college until two years after she graduated from high school. She went to the University of Delaware. She said the dining room was half empty because the school had so few students during the late 1930s.

ProofArtworkonCircs

<<<< Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve Bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:

(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.

(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having a recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.

(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign Government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.

(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and bullion imported for reexport or held pending action on applications for export licenses. >>>>

This is part of executive order 6102 which is very interesting for 3 reasons.

1) It allowed up to $100 in gold certificates (and gold coin) to be kept

2) It was declared null and void by the court since the President signed the order and not the Secretary of the Treasury (as specified in the authorizing legislation). It was quickly replaced by a subsequent order which did not exempt any gold certificates.

3) There is a hoax order on the net based on this order but adds that all silver including coins must be turned in and all safe deposit boxes have been sealed until the IRS can inspect them.

BLUEJAYWAY

Just a few random thoughts. My Uncle,my Mom told me, used to set pins at the local bowling alley nights during the depression. Got paid .10 a night. Got to keep a .05 and the other .05 was brought home to my Grandmother. Also in the neighborhood where my Mother grew up there was a corner store. The owner extended credit to many locals. When it came time to pay up he requested as much payment as possible in Indian Head Cents. Also for cash purchases as well. Before Grandmother died she told me of her trip over to the U.S. from Europe via steamer in steerage sometime back in the teens. Landed at Ellis Island. Trip cost all of $12.00. Never did ask her what, if any, currency/coinage she posessed upon arrival.

dlimb2

All these are great stories. They are good to read. My parents lived in the country in Alabama during the great depression. They both lived on farms. My fathers family owned their own farm, they sold produce. My mothers family were share croppers, poor. They never had a hardship because they lived as farmers their whole life and life didn't really change for them. They bartered their produce for the things they needed. which wasn't much, sugar, flour and coffee. I guess even though they were poor they had it better than most.

Elcontador

On my father's side, his father lost some what is now expensive real estate because he could not pay the property taxes on the parcel. But he worked with the studios in Hollywood, and otherwise, did fairly well. Joe was one of those people who was always thinking on his feet. His mother operated a dress shop with her sister and got by. She saved $75 in gold coins because she did not trust the government (all of my grandparents were immigrants and had good reason for feeling this way). They are now family heirlooms.

On my mother's side, her mother was ill, and her father did whatever work he could find. Anything from delivering milk from a horse drawn cart to work on the local railroads. They had a very hard time. Mother never forgot those difficult times; when my father could afford to buy a large house, she insisted he do so. And she refused to move out of the place until death took her away from us.

My paternal grandfather was the only one who could to afford to collect coins, and he had other priorities.

Flash

Great stories! My grandfather was a carpenter by trade, and during the depression era left his family for months at a time to travel to other places, such as Alaska and California, where there was a building boom. My mother would tell me of entire towns that he helped to build. While my mother's family wasn't rich by any means, they did get by alot better than many of their neighbors, who thought of them as rich. In addition to owning their own farm, my father's dad also worked at a sawmill. They managed to get along fairly well also. Unfortunately none of them were coin collectors, although my mother would swear that after her parents passed away (killed by a drunk driver in 1958) some of their money was never located and was believed to be buried somewhere on their property.

dlimb2

This is very much good for us to reminisce of our past. The past sometimes holds answers to our future. Even though it was hard times it also was a good time. If we were to ever go into a time like the Great Depression I would hope that people would come together and help one another and we all learn to get along an help each other.