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What was your most substantial "problem" coin purchase?

MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭
I can recall a silver plug 1795 dollar in the $4000 range as the most expensive. Coin was cleaned and repaired and did not do so well on resale, XF details aside.




For the inevitable poster that believes that it is none of my business, you are free to not divulge the information. image

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  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,109 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1802 lg cent approx fair, so worn and damaged that you could barely make out the date. about $30, but it was the least expensive PCI red label I could find for my slab collection.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • SmEagle1795SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've purchased several five-figure early gold coins with problems, my most expensive and favorite a 1797 $10 Small Eagle. It has strong AU details but was cleaned and cost less than 1/3rd of a gradable AU. I eventually sold it and made $5K after about a year.

    These days, I don't buy problem coins, but there are definitely a large number of people out there who happily do, adjusting the price paid for the issues.

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    Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,430 ✭✭✭✭✭
    An 1805 Cohen C-2 half cent, the rare variety of the Small 5, Stems coins. All of the diagnostics were clear, but the coin was a ground salvage piece and partially bent. It had Good-4 sharpness, and I netted down to a FR-2. Some might have graded it a point higher.

    At the time I bought it about 18 examples were known, and I paid a little over $1,000 for it. I sold for a $100 profit when I got tired of it.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • mbogomanmbogoman Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    XF Details Gobrecht dollar. Lots of meat left on it and about half (or more) what a non-problem example cost.
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    a 5K MS 65 BN Draped Bust Half Cent that developed active PVC in holder after I owned it for 8 years. Was able to unload it for slightly more than I paid for it. Lesson learned - will never buy a pre 1815 copper again unless it's in an OGH under any circumstances.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • TahoeDaleTahoeDale Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭
    All the expensive coins I have purchased raw, except a handful, have had small to moderate problems.

    At the Queller sale by Stacks in 2002, all were raw, and the CBH's were nice, scarce and some wonderful. But I bought an 1822 in 65(catalog grade)
    that had some cleaned areas under the deep toning. Paid 5K and still own it, in the original flip. I guess I should send it in for a Genuine holder.

    Then at another Stacks sale over 10 years ago, bought an 1802 early dollar in 58(again, catalogers grade), and it did not grade til the 3rd attempt.

    There are more, but I am getting sadder by the moment.
    TahoeDale
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A 1937 proof set, all coins NGC 65. The pieces were spotless when I bought them. All of the coins turned about 6-7 months after I bought them, probably due to poor rinsing after dipping. Even the cent had been messed with---the color was artificial.
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I paid $3500 for an xf Chalmers shilling that is expertly repaired and very well done. I will upgrade it someday, but for now it will do.

    Tom

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Picked up this 1797 13 star half dime for $80

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    and here's an 1801 half dollar that was about $125

    image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • PurfrockPurfrock Posts: 545 ✭✭✭
    I bought a problem coin in a problem free NGC slab once. The pictures were not good, but it was at a decent price, and
    I bought on impulse. Anyway, when I sold it with high resolution pictures, I lost almost 20% on the coin. I was one of those
    times where if I had kept the bad pictures, it would have likely done better on resale.
    EAC, ANA Member
  • rxerrxer Posts: 280 ✭✭
    my biggest "problem" coin was just barely a 5 figure coin - could never have
    afforded to put my hands on a perfect piece. An 1802 c-1 half cent
    image
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    palmer
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, I have to love "problem" purchases where the buyer's "only" made 10% or so. My most substantial "problem" coins were at least 40% hits. The most remarkable one was an AT "gem proof" seated quarter that I bought in 1983 for $3,000 and found out it was BB material in 1988. My real mistake was trying to remove the color. I ended up with a PF62 that was fugly that ended up as a 80-85% loss. Even if I had been able to get out of that coin as a raw PF64 it would have been a 50% loss. I have dozens of "substantial" raw coins over the years where I took 20-40% hits....mostly because of the coins coming back AT, cleaned, etc. If you missed a raw coin by one grade it was also easy to lose 30-50%. In some cases I tried multiple times to get my grade and failed....just took the 20-40% hit. Other times I was willing to take the hit but had no takers..... and sent the coin back in one last time....where I either got the grade or an "upgrade." That happened more times than you'd think possible. I cracked out a PCGS MS64 $10 Lib that I thought was a no brainer MS65 coin. It was clean as a whistle and had no hairlines either. It came back BB'd by both NGC and PCGS. I tried my best to give that coin away raw to a number of top gold dealers at a 30% loss and none of them would touch it for 63+ money. I was forced to send it back in raw to a major auction house. They resubmitted the coin and it came back MS66 the first time (I won't say which service). I ended up making 100% on a coin I was already willing to take a 30% loss on.

    Another seated quarter that got my goat was a raw choice BU 1862 out of 1988/1989 Stack's auction. I paid weak MS64 money and was battling Eric Streiner for the coin. He ended up letting me have it for around $1600. I was hoping to get a 64 and make a couple hundred on the coin. It came back NGC MS62. I didn't even try the coin again with that 2 point spread. Just put it up for auction raw again and took my chances. It sold for $475. I was ticked off. I didn't expect anything less than 63 money or around $650-$1000. And about a year later I saw the exact same coin....in an NGC MS64 holder. I'm pretty sure I know who bought it for that $475. image

    The most I've ever spent on a "problem" coin going in with eyes wide open was around $2K. Usually I made money on those. I recall buying a semi-mutilated 1804 dime and 1870-cc quarter. I knew as soon as I bought them that I'd make money on them. Those are the "easy" problem coin buys. It was the raw coins I didn't think had serious problems that caused me the most grief. 80-90% of the rare coin market from 1986-1990 was still raw coins....or at least making raw coins into slabbed coins. If you wanted to buy the best raw coins you pretty much had to fight it out at major auction. And if you were too conservative in your grading you ended up with zilch. I made a lot more hits than misses....but it didn't make those misses sting any less.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • jmcu12jmcu12 Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭
    Gobrecht dollar. Great xf detail and about half the price of a problem free example.

    I have a holed type set and I have put a very decent amount of money into it. I am actively 'upgrading' too!
    Awarded latest "YOU SUCK!": June 11, 2014
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,282 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A T. Reid $5. PCGS Genuine.

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • DDRDDR Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've paid big bucks for a number of chop marked Trade dollars. I don't necessarily consider them "problem" coins, but some people do.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Any coin I buy, I like....therefore it is not a 'problem' coin.....and I do not sell coins....image Cheers, RickO
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,052 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting thread, and I always get a lot out of RR's posts.

    Some years back after buying a number of coins from one of the big Coin World sellers with the multi-page colorful ads... you know the ones.... I sent in (for me) a big order (around $3500 worth). It was around this time that I read Travers' book and started lurking on forums and learning about sliders and cleaning and so on. The whole bunch of coins, when I received them, had problems. One of them was a $3 gold piece. The seller did exclusively mail order so when I showed up at their storefront (which just happens to be here in town) with the coins they weren't all that happy to see me but I got my refund. I still have most of the early buys, though, which include a cleaned type 2 gold dollar and Lewis & Clark gold commem.
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Paid $1800 for my 1794 large cent that was in a Details holder.
    The coin had been in dealer friend's personal collection for decades, and he had submitted it.
    The obverse is nice and close to AU, with a rounded cheek and sharp hair detail.
    The reverse apparently had been corroded and then burnished or treated to make it 'smoother'.
    The overall color is nice medium chocolate brown, and I figured w/o the problems on the rev the coin would
    run me $3k.
    As an added bonus, it's an S-54, only an R-3, but as the finest known is an (EAC) AU50, the coin may be in the top 12 or
    so of known examples of the variety.

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,366 ✭✭✭✭
    A chain cent for $3500. Sold it after holding it for a few years for a decent profit.
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,841 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All of my problems were in problem free holder.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,841 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BTW, really appreciate your post Roadrunner. Great perspective.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>All of my problems were in problem free holder. >>


    Same here. An 1854-D $3 that turned in the holder. image
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The raw 1876 II / II Trade Dollar that I posted here recently. Although, as long as the Redbook continues to list it as "Extremely Rare", with no prices posted in any grade, I'm perfectly content to hold it. image

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mid four figures for a coin that I still regret to this day having bought, thence buried in a SDB where it has sat the last near decade or so having not even looked upon the since.
    In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>A chain cent for $3500. Sold it after holding it for a few years for a decent profit. >>



    I thought my Chalmers was my only problem coin purchase but I was wrong....it's the only one I still have. I bought a chain cent on ebay for $650 or so 10-15 years ago. Sent it to ANACS where they generously graded it vg details, net ag-3, corroded. It was heavily corroded but had a very decent chain and a date. Tripled my money in about 2 years. And I still do not own a chain cent.

    Tom

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I once bought a Cheerios dollar in the mint package. The way she reacted made it the most substantial "problem" purchase. Nevermind the coin, I still have it. The substantial problem is gone, though.
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,115 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i><< A chain cent for $3500. Sold it after holding it for a few years for a decent profit. >>

    I thought my Chalmers was my only problem coin purchase but I was wrong....it's the only one I still have. I bought a chain cent on ebay for $650 or so 10-15 years ago. Sent it to ANACS where they generously graded it vg details, net ag-3, corroded. It was heavily corroded but had a very decent chain and a date. Tripled my money in about 2 years. And I still do not own a chain cent. >>


    I passed on a perfect problem free AG/G chain cent about 4 years ago, at the now-ridiculously low price of $1800, because I wanted one with most or all of the date present image and I'm still needing one. I did however snag the '93 Lib Cap cent out of that same set, which was later sold to AnkurJ, who got it into a genny a holder - we both did well with that coin.


    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1870-cc quarter in VF-35, bought for $4000. Nice obverse. Has ten or so heavy cuts on the reverse.image Can't buy a Fr-2 for that money these days, though, so I'll take it.

  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,471 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I once bought a Cheerios dollar in the mint package. The way she reacted made it the most substantial "problem" purchase. Nevermind the coin, I still have it. The substantial problem is gone, though. >>



    Must be that the "substantial problem" didn't get halfsies. image

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A Bechtler One Dollar. It has a bend in it, as it should. image
    MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ha ha image Coindeuce. You know the problem with coins is always the clash, not the die marriage.
  • pennyanniepennyannie Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭
    I am glad to know I am not the only one who takes 50 percent hits.image
    Mark
    NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
    working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!

    RIP "BEAR"
  • PurfrockPurfrock Posts: 545 ✭✭✭
    I just sold my chain cent. It was a mid-four figure coin that graded as G4. I kept thinking I was going to upgrade
    it, but ended up buying a wreath with that money instead. Now I wonder how long it's going to take me to put enough
    money aside for a replacement. I know that I need to take the long view on these purchases, but my problem is that I
    end up spending all of my money on a number of $100 coins versus saving for the "centerpiece" coin.
    EAC, ANA Member
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,366 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i><< A chain cent for $3500. Sold it after holding it for a few years for a decent profit. >>

    I thought my Chalmers was my only problem coin purchase but I was wrong....it's the only one I still have. I bought a chain cent on ebay for $650 or so 10-15 years ago. Sent it to ANACS where they generously graded it vg details, net ag-3, corroded. It was heavily corroded but had a very decent chain and a date. Tripled my money in about 2 years. And I still do not own a chain cent. >>


    I passed on a perfect problem free AG/G chain cent about 4 years ago, at the now-ridiculously low price of $1800, because I wanted one with most or all of the date present image and I'm still needing one. I did however snag the '93 Lib Cap cent out of that same set, which was later sold to AnkurJ, who got it into a genny a holder - we both did well with that coin. >>



    In most cases, it seems that 1793 Large cents in any grade, even with problems, are always in high demand and seem to appreciate in value.
    I also bought a 1783 Libertas Americana bronze medal which had some rim damage. That also sold for a profit after holding for a few years.
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    Ironically, all my problem coins (and no offense meant towards our host), were PCGS crackouts. I just stopped. It seemed like every PCGS coin I cracked to send in with a raw submission not only didn't upgrade but came back BB. Some coins I sent in 3 times, BB. Then later I found them in higher graded holders...it used to get me all wound up, but now it doesn't bother me anymore.

    Now if I have a problem coin now -- very rarely!, maybe once or twice per year -- I just sell it at a loss and move on. Chalk it up to learning. I typically lose $300-$400 per year on bad buying decisions, but that's the price of admission. I look at it as avoiding losing $1,000's for a) not knowing what I'm doing (I learn a lot from problems), and b) chasing grades/coins by submitting them 3, 4, 5 times.

    I cannot own problem coins as I do Registry Sets and I cannot register a problem coin into my set. So, I own zero problem coins, but I've owned about 6-8 problem coins over the years (but I only owned them temporarily, and by accident).

    /mdg.
  • SoCalBigMarkSoCalBigMark Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ironically, all my problem coins (and no offense meant towards our host), were PCGS crackouts. I just stopped. It seemed like every PCGS coin I cracked to send in with a raw submission not only didn't upgrade but came back BB. Some coins I sent in 3 times, BB. Then later I found them in higher graded holders...it used to get me all wound up, but now it doesn't bother me anymore.

    Now if I have a problem coin now -- very rarely!, maybe once or twice per year -- I just sell it at a loss and move on. Chalk it up to learning. I typically lose $300-$400 per year on bad buying decisions, but that's the price of admission. I look at it as avoiding losing $1,000's for a) not knowing what I'm doing (I learn a lot from problems), and b) chasing grades/coins by submitting them 3, 4, 5 times.

    I cannot own problem coins as I do Registry Sets and I cannot register a problem coin into my set. So, I own zero problem coins, but I've owned about 6-8 problem coins over the years (but I only owned them temporarily, and by accident).

    /mdg. >>



    I suggest a Gold forum sticker on this post.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ironically, the very first seated quarter I ever purchased (1974) was a major problem coin. While it was only $14.50 that was half a day's summer wages for me back then...lol. The coin was a better date 1843-0 but had massive crosses dug out in each obverse field. The coin was ruined but I loved it at the time. I thought this date was really cool. 10 years later I hated the thing I figured I'd be buried in that for life. About 8-10 years ago I ran across it buried in my SDB and decided to just get rid of it at FUN. As it turned out, it was the rarer large O variety. I got $35 for the coin. So my first ever "problem" seated quarter ended up giving me a 140% "profit" after about 30 years. This was probably the most unsubstantial problem seated quarter I ever bought. On another purchase I took a flyer for $20 on a Fine 1853 "NA" quarter that had the look like someone had removed all the arrows and rays. I figured I couldn't go too wrong regardless of what it was. When I got it home under stronger magnification I realized it was indeed well-tooled and not a rarer "NA" quarter. I think I still have that coin too.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • coindudeonebaycoindudeonebay Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭
    I found this the most interesting part of the thread.

    image

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