By filing a police report, you will get them involved and they (in theory) will have to investigate to the whereabouts of the litho and make a determination as to whether a crime was committed. Another poster mentioned postal insurance, but that only covers you if the lithograph did not reach Steiner. As for a newspaper contact, I'd recommend Phil Mushnick of the N.Y. Post as he writes continually about the hypocrisy of pro and college sports, the decline o TV and radio coverage and has been critical of memorabilia dealers ripping off the public and has critically commented on Steiner on many occasions. His email is: phil.mushnick@nypost.com
<< <i>Why would it be classified as theft at this point? The item is missing and presumed lost not stolen. What evidence is there that a theft occurred? Perhaps an actual lawyer could chime in as opposed to all of us that simply guess (myself included).
It is definitely unfortunate that the litho was lost/misplaced/taken. I am not sure you can reasonable compare it to the limited edition signed lithos that other folks linked to that sell for $35k - $70k. If it were a card you would not assign the same value to an after-market signed item as a "factory" autographed card. The $7500 - $10,000 valuation seems perfectly reasonable though you are free to inflate it. If it eventually gets down to damages my understanding is that you would be awarded the fair market value or replacement cost rather than what you claimed was the valuation. Unfortunately the fair market value or replacement cost do not take emotional investment into consideration (and honestly nor should they). You already had one expert provide an estimated fair market value on the litho and published that amount as well as your personal assessment of cost incurred. How much did you insure it for when you shipped it to Steiner? I know if it is determined that the item is irrevocably lost I would look at the value you assigned to the piece when shipping it. Hopefully that value is close to what you think the piece is truly worth.
That said the police report is definitely the right step. These types of situation typically take time to resolve. It is unclear why you would begin threatening Steiner at this point with negative publicity, etc. You have plenty of time to do that once you determine they will not fairly compensate you for your lost item. The piece has been missing for less than a month right? You do not forfeit your rights when you allow a reasonable amount of time to be taken to find a lost item.
At this point if I were in your shoes I would continue to stay in contact with Steiner and be polite and reasonable. If after several weeks you do not feel things are progressing I would have an attorney draft a letter and send it to Steiner. I would continue to follow up on the police report as well. Hopefully in the end Steiner finds the missing item as it has quite a bit of sentimental value. The fact of the matter is that things do get misplaced.
I would also discontinue using this forum unless you have a specific question that you need answered that your lawyer can not.
Best of luck,
Robb >>
presume this item is lost .... then you would also presume it was lost in a situation where someone would find it. I mean unless it blew out of someone's car , its presumed it was lost among Steiner's staff, you would also assume that someone has found the item. If you find an item and not return such item to the police then the item is considered stolen.
I would imagine the item is not lost to the point of it disappeared no where to be ever found by any one. The item therefore is considered stolen though its theft , it would not qualify as larceny. I would also assume that the item was stolen by someone from Steiner, which would be considered larceny. the police need to investigate. That is why the police are there.
an item found and turned into the police is held for usually 90 days and then such item can be sold and bought legally. It depends state to state the amount of time an item can be held by the police before you can retrieve it. If item is never turned into police then it will be considered stolen property
I edit almost all my posts because my auto correct is crazy !
Looks like Steiner is in another lawsuit that claims they were selling fake game-used merchandise.
"Some of Manning’s alleged fakes were sold through famed memorabilia house Steiner Sports, with whom he had an exclusive deal.
Steiner, believing its items to be authentic, sold them “to unwitting customers and sent them via the mail,” the suit says. Angry buyers started to complain after noticing that markings on their items didn’t match those that appeared in pictures of Manning’s game-day duds.
But Manning told Steiner they were legit, and Steiner resold returned helmets to other buyers, the suit claims. Inselberg did not put a dollar amount on compensatory or punitive damages. But he lost “well into the eight figures,” according to lawyer Brook, who filed the suit with Red Bank, NJ, lawyer Michael Kasanoff."
Regardless if the item is stolen or lost the promoter will be responsible because it was in their care, custody and control. Under the commercial liability policy this would be covered if they do not find it.
Sorry that happened to you.
Looking for high grade rookie cards and unopened boxes/cases
<< <i>I wish someone loved logic as much as he loves cards. I got a headache trying to figure out that post. :-) >>
low iq have you ?
let me narrowed it down to you . if an item is lost and found then that item needs to be turned into the police , if it is not then the item is considered stolen.
that item simply didn't disappear. It was stolen along the way.
there is a difference between theft and larceny. If an item is lost and not turned in to the police then item will be considered stolen until the statute of limitations expires, Larceny would be considered someone straight up stole the item.
I edit almost all my posts because my auto correct is crazy !
<< <i>I wish someone loved logic as much as he loves cards. I got a headache trying to figure out that post. :-) >>
low iq have you ?
let me narrowed it down to you . if an item is lost and found then that item needs to be turned into the police , if it is not then the item is considered stolen.
that item simply didn't disappear. It was stolen along the way.
there is a difference between theft and larceny. If an item is lost and not turned in to the police then item will be considered stolen until the statute of limitations expires, Larceny would be considered someone straight up stole the item. >>
Please do not play lawyer on the internet. You have no idea what you're talking about.
And you're the last person on this board who should ever be making a snide remark about someone else's IQ.
<< <i>I wish someone loved logic as much as he loves cards. I got a headache trying to figure out that post. :-) >>
low iq have you ?
let me narrowed it down to you . if an item is lost and found then that item needs to be turned into the police , if it is not then the item is considered stolen.
that item simply didn't disappear. It was stolen along the way.
there is a difference between theft and larceny. If an item is lost and not turned in to the police then item will be considered stolen until the statute of limitations expires, Larceny would be considered someone straight up stole the item. >>
Please do not play lawyer on the internet. You have no idea what you're talking about.
And you're the last person on this board who should ever be making a snide remark about someone else's IQ.
ok name one thing I am wrong about in this situation. Name the thing I have said that is incorrect ?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I wish someone loved logic as much as he loves cards. I got a headache trying to figure out that post. :-) >>
low iq have you ?
let me narrowed it down to you . if an item is lost and found then that item needs to be turned into the police , if it is not then the item is considered stolen.
that item simply didn't disappear. It was stolen along the way.
there is a difference between theft and larceny. If an item is lost and not turned in to the police then item will be considered stolen until the statute of limitations expires, Larceny would be considered someone straight up stole the item. >>
Please do not play lawyer on the internet. You have no idea what you're talking about.
And you're the last person on this board who should ever be making a snide remark about someone else's IQ.
Nick >>
I edit almost all my posts because my auto correct is crazy !
<< <i>Regardless if the item is stolen or lost the promoter will be responsible because it was in their care, custody and control. Under the commercial liability policy this would be covered if they do not find it.
Sorry that happened to you. >>
Most Commercial General Liability policies exclude coverage for items in their "care, custody & control" (unless endorsed otherwise).
IMF
Successful dealings with Wcsportscards94558, EagleEyeKid, SamsGirl214, Volver, DwayneDrain, Oaksey25, Griffins, Cardfan07, Etc.
<< <i>Regardless if the item is stolen or lost the promoter will be responsible because it was in their care, custody and control. Under the commercial liability policy this would be covered if they do not find it.
Sorry that happened to you. >>
Most Commercial General Liability policies exclude coverage for items in their "care, custody & control" (unless endorsed otherwise).
IMF >>
yes but you could argue negligence
I edit almost all my posts because my auto correct is crazy !
ok name one thing I am wrong about in this situation. Name the thing I have said that is incorrect ?
<<
<<
<< I wish someone loved logic as much as he loves cards. I got a headache trying to figure out that post. :-) >>
low iq have you ?
let me narrowed it down to you . if an item is lost and found then that item needs to be turned into the police , if it is not then the item is considered stolen.
Just in the first comment "low iq have you?" Not a complete statement/sentence/question, Low is capitalized, I.Q. is this way. "let me narrowed it down to you." - So many issues that are wrong it is not worth the effort.
Even if the commercial policy excludes items in the custody, care and control of their client there is no doubt in my mind that they are responsible for this. I would be very pissed with my agent if he wrote me a policy and did not have this coverage on to my policy when he knows what type of items are being handled every day.
Looking for high grade rookie cards and unopened boxes/cases
I think fergie23 offers very sound and stable advice.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>ok name one thing I am wrong about in this situation. Name the thing I have said that is incorrect ?
<<
<<
<< I wish someone loved logic as much as he loves cards. I got a headache trying to figure out that post. :-) >>
low iq have you ?
let me narrowed it down to you . if an item is lost and found then that item needs to be turned into the police , if it is not then the item is considered stolen.
Just in the first comment "low iq have you?" Not a complete statement/sentence/question, Low is capitalized, I.Q. is this way. "let me narrowed it down to you." - So many issues that are wrong it is not worth the effort.
Even if the commercial policy excludes items in the custody, care and control of their client there is no doubt in my mind that they are responsible for this. I would be very pissed with my agent if he wrote me a policy and did not have this coverage on to my policy when he knows what type of items are being handled every day. >>
cop out .. could not make a valid argument other than some grammar , done by auto correct on iphone.
I edit almost all my posts because my auto correct is crazy !
Robb, your advice is quite sound and mirrored that of my father in law. I told them what I think in an email tonight. I said I've been after estimates for about a week and they range anywhere from $7500-12,000 and perhaps more (which is completely true). I told them that because of it being signed by a deceased player as well as other players in their 80's that I think that the odds of replacing it are remote and I'm probably not comfortable waiting the amount of time it would take to do it.
Left it in their court. I'll update you guys with their thoughts. I'm definitely in the get more bees with honey camp as opposed to a flamethrower. It's just my nature for better or worse and I'll take the outcomes of situations I've avoided starting in my life using that approach over others any day. That said, if it comes time to carpet bomb, I'm willing and able. But why do it before there is an offer on the table or something? I'm anxious to see their reaction to my email which included no "demands". The next reply of mine is likely to include questions about liability insurance.
Also, and this totally sucks, I have 5 movies going at the same time and have other/better work things going on. I just don't have the time to think about this 12 hours/day. It sucks because when work calms down, this is all I'll think about.
<< <i>ok name one thing I am wrong about in this situation. Name the thing I have said that is incorrect ?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I wish someone loved logic as much as he loves cards. I got a headache trying to figure out that post. :-) >>
low iq have you ?
let me narrowed it down to you . if an item is lost and found then that item needs to be turned into the police , if it is not then the item is considered stolen.
that item simply didn't disappear. It was stolen along the way.
there is a difference between theft and larceny. If an item is lost and not turned in to the police then item will be considered stolen until the statute of limitations expires, Larceny would be considered someone straight up stole the item. >>
Please do not play lawyer on the internet. You have no idea what you're talking about.
And you're the last person on this board who should ever be making a snide remark about someone else's IQ.
Nick >>
>>
Almost everything you said is either wrong or an unwarranted assumption.
If you make the supposition (it's not a presumption) that the item was lost or mislaid (and we have nothing to go on to choose which of those two might have happened), you can't reasonably assume that it will ever be found. Valuable items get thrown away or destroyed sometimes, especially if they have been packaged so their nature is not apparent. If it is found, the law of the particular state where it was found dictates the finder's (and owner of the place of finding's) rights and responsibilities (or federal law, if it's found in certain places). Most states now require finders of valuable property to turn it in to police or to the owner of the place where it was found. Failure to do so is often a crime - and some states explicitly call it larceny. If the property is worth thousands of dollars, there's a lot more than 90 days for the owner to get it back in every state I'm aware of (usually at least 1 year). And at the end of that time, if the owner hasn't come back for it, the finder or premises owner, depending on the circumstances, can get the property, rather than it being sold at auction. If you make the supposition of an original theft, it is not warranted to assume a Steiner employee was the thief. Anyone from a baggage handler to a maid could be the thief just as easily - and if the thief wasn't a Steiner employee, the crime might be burglary or something else rather than larceny. Fergie was pretty much spot on.
<< <i>if it was your item. YOUR thoughts would be different... >>
+1
Let's not derail this thread by going at each other. The OP trusted someone with his piece, whether it has been lost or stolen, the bottom line is he doesn't have it back in his hands where it belongs.
From what I can tell, 707 is the DOLLAR STORE compared to deans_cards. For what that guy charges, if I ever bought anything from him I would expect it to be delivered to me in a frickin' limo. ~WalterSobchak
I think you are underestimating the replacement cost of the item. In addition to the task of getting them all together, there is logistical cost of traveling with the item to get signed, or sending it in the mail.
This is a monster piece of memorabilia and it's theft is horrible.
I would estimate the value between $18,000 - $20,000, but would still rather have the item than that amount.
I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy! Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
if it was your item. YOUR thoughts would be different... >>
If I had to bet, I'd say stolen. But considering how much stuff gets thrown away by idiot hotel employees or destroyed by careless or malicious airport employees, I don't discount those possibilities. [I spent a couple years flying twice a week for work, and I could relate horror stories for hours.]
Either way, I feel horrible for Vito, and I hope he gets his original litho back undamaged.
Bump. Plus a cool link for this to possibly get a national spotlight. Antiques Roadshow You have to follow a few steps but this could enlighten the nation to the theft problem on a whole in the sports cards and memorabilia world.
Tallulah Bankhead — 'There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare.'
I appreciate that link. I'll have some news this week presumably. Steiner has essentially asked me to make them a proposal. I'm sending them three options. If we can't come to an understanding, I'll be going the small claims court route I think.
I certainly hope they step up and make things right for you. It's a shame, and a disgusting situation. Just the personal attachment and all the time involved.
I guess at this point all they can do is make a strong offer to you financially, offer something or a similar piece. I dunno, but I hope things work out the way you want. Sorry again this happened to you.
I can't believe they didn't send this registered mail? If they sent this UPS or Fed Ex they are just asking for problems.. I have said it many times .. Do not send anything that can't be replaced via Fed Ex or UPS! If its registered it can't fall off the truck.. This is terrible news and I feel for you...
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>I appreciate that link. I'll have some news this week presumably. Steiner has essentially asked me to make them a proposal. I'm sending them three options. If we can't come to an understanding, I'll be going the small claims court route I think. >>
Best of luck Mike. I hope those three options are all worth a lot of $$$$.
STAY HEALTHY!
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Hey I talked to the guy (Ed) who's New York Yankee jacket was stolen and he told me that Steiner fought every minute of the whole thing and it took 16 months to resolve.
hope you guys come to an agreement faster.
I wouldn't hold your breath though. After talking to this gentleman about the whole ordeal
also they never found who "stole" the jacket, Steiner never filed a police report, they had to themselves.
and of course the jacket was never found
I edit almost all my posts because my auto correct is crazy !
Going the NY Post columnist route may be a very good option. It would pressure on Steiner and may get someone's attention. Someone has this piece and this may force it to surface.
<< <i>I can't believe they didn't send this registered mail? If they sent this UPS or Fed Ex they are just asking for problems.. I have said it many times .. Do not send anything that can't be replaced via Fed Ex or UPS! If its registered it can't fall off the truck.. This is terrible news and I feel for you... >>
Please explain? What is the safest way to send items in the thousands$$?
<< <i>I can't believe they didn't send this registered mail? If they sent this UPS or Fed Ex they are just asking for problems.. I have said it many times .. Do not send anything that can't be replaced via Fed Ex or UPS! If its registered it can't fall off the truck.. This is terrible news and I feel for you... >>
Please explain? What is the safest way to send items in the thousands$$? >>
Depends on how many thousands. For items under and up to $25,000 USPS Registered Mail with full value insurance coverage is the way I do it. Have shipped things over that amount, but in order to get around the $25,000 cutoff, I just put them in more than one box and ship them separately. However, if it's a single item over $25,000, I don't know what the best method is.
For the record, I don't know how they lost it, apparently internally on the way back from the Ewing signing and not on it's way back to me.
I made them three proposals, any of which I'd be reasonably satisfied with. They have said they're considering. I expect to hear next week. I won't post them publicly in case they need to stipulate that I don't publicize it if and when they acquiesce. If we've PM'd excessively in the past I'll let you know what they were privately if you want to know.
<< <i>For the record, I don't know how they lost it, apparently internally on the way back from the Ewing signing and not on it's way back to me.
I made them three proposals, any of which I'd be reasonably satisfied with. They have said they're considering. I expect to hear next week. I won't post them publicly in case they need to stipulate that I don't publicize it if and when they acquiesce. If we've PM'd excessively in the past I'll let you know what they were privately if you want to know. >>
Keep taking the high road and I sincerely hope it pays off.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
I just read this thread for the first time. Makes my stomach queezy. I cant imagine my anguish if I lost a piece like that.
Mike, you deserve what every you ask for within reason...and I know you are a reasonable person. Just dont cut yourself short! Ask 40-50% more than you want because they will try to negotiate you down.
I would think Steiner would want to resolve this issue quickly and quietly. From a business standpoint this type of situation will cost them MUCH more in potential lost business than resolving the issue to your satisfaction.
Based on what I've read in this thread I will NEVER purchase anything from Steiner.
I agree. This incident should be made very public., Try to get it on the local news in New York. Your lawyer should be taking all the avenues to make thus as public as possible. If board members post a link to this post on thier social media accounts, the word will spread farst.
Like Barry, I missed this one somehow too. Really sorry to hear about this Mike. I hope you end up with a satisfactory resolution, but nothing replaces the memories of putting that piece together.
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting: Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>I can't believe they didn't send this registered mail? If they sent this UPS or Fed Ex they are just asking for problems.. I have said it many times .. Do not send anything that can't be replaced via Fed Ex or UPS! If its registered it can't fall off the truck.. This is terrible news and I feel for you... >>
Please explain? What is the safest way to send items in the thousands$$? >>
Depends on how many thousands. For items under and up to $25,000 USPS Registered Mail with full value insurance coverage is the way I do it. Have shipped things over that amount, but in order to get around the $25,000 cutoff, I just put them in more than one box and ship them separately. However, if it's a single item over $25,000, I don't know what the best method is.
MIke >>
What Mike said and I would add anything over 25,000 I would probably hire a courier service that I trusted. Depending on the item and rarity? I would probably get on a plane for 4 500 and hand deliver it for something over 25,000... If I was running an auction house then everything would go registered..
I worked for DHL for 9 years as a driver... Trust me you don't want to send anything that is valuable through UPS,DHL or FedEx.......
Comments
This might be of interest to them.
Good luck in getting a resolution.
<< <i>Why would it be classified as theft at this point? The item is missing and presumed lost not stolen. What evidence is there that a theft occurred? Perhaps an actual lawyer could chime in as opposed to all of us that simply guess (myself included).
It is definitely unfortunate that the litho was lost/misplaced/taken. I am not sure you can reasonable compare it to the limited edition signed lithos that other folks linked to that sell for $35k - $70k. If it were a card you would not assign the same value to an after-market signed item as a "factory" autographed card. The $7500 - $10,000 valuation seems perfectly reasonable though you are free to inflate it. If it eventually gets down to damages my understanding is that you would be awarded the fair market value or replacement cost rather than what you claimed was the valuation. Unfortunately the fair market value or replacement cost do not take emotional investment into consideration (and honestly nor should they). You already had one expert provide an estimated fair market value on the litho and published that amount as well as your personal assessment of cost incurred. How much did you insure it for when you shipped it to Steiner? I know if it is determined that the item is irrevocably lost I would look at the value you assigned to the piece when shipping it. Hopefully that value is close to what you think the piece is truly worth.
That said the police report is definitely the right step. These types of situation typically take time to resolve. It is unclear why you would begin threatening Steiner at this point with negative publicity, etc. You have plenty of time to do that once you determine they will not fairly compensate you for your lost item. The piece has been missing for less than a month right? You do not forfeit your rights when you allow a reasonable amount of time to be taken to find a lost item.
At this point if I were in your shoes I would continue to stay in contact with Steiner and be polite and reasonable. If after several weeks you do not feel things are progressing I would have an attorney draft a letter and send it to Steiner. I would continue to follow up on the police report as well. Hopefully in the end Steiner finds the missing item as it has quite a bit of sentimental value. The fact of the matter is that things do get misplaced.
I would also discontinue using this forum unless you have a specific question that you need answered that your lawyer can not.
Best of luck,
Robb >>
presume this item is lost .... then you would also presume it was lost in a situation where someone would find it. I mean unless it blew out of someone's car , its presumed it was lost among Steiner's staff, you would also assume that someone has found the item. If you find an item and not return such item to the police then the item is considered stolen.
I would imagine the item is not lost to the point of it disappeared no where to be ever found by any one. The item therefore is considered stolen though its theft , it would not qualify as larceny. I would also assume that the item was stolen by someone from Steiner, which would be considered larceny. the police need to investigate. That is why the police are there.
an item found and turned into the police is held for usually 90 days and then such item can be sold and bought legally. It depends state to state the amount of time an item can be held by the police before you can retrieve it. If item is never turned into police then it will be considered stolen property
"Some of Manning’s alleged fakes were sold through famed memorabilia house Steiner Sports, with whom he had an exclusive deal.
Steiner, believing its items to be authentic, sold them “to unwitting customers and sent them via the mail,” the suit says.
Angry buyers started to complain after noticing that markings on their items didn’t match those that appeared in pictures of Manning’s game-day duds.
But Manning told Steiner they were legit, and Steiner resold returned helmets to other buyers, the suit claims.
Inselberg did not put a dollar amount on compensatory or punitive damages. But he lost “well into the eight figures,” according to lawyer Brook, who filed the suit with Red Bank, NJ, lawyer Michael Kasanoff."
https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/
Sorry that happened to you.
<< <i>I wish someone loved logic as much as he loves cards. I got a headache trying to figure out that post. :-) >>
low iq have you ?
let me narrowed it down to you . if an item is lost and found then that item needs to be turned into the police , if it is not then the item is considered stolen.
that item simply didn't disappear. It was stolen along the way.
there is a difference between theft and larceny. If an item is lost and not turned in to the police then item will be considered stolen until the statute of limitations expires,
Larceny would be considered someone straight up stole the item.
<< <i>
<< <i>I wish someone loved logic as much as he loves cards. I got a headache trying to figure out that post. :-) >>
low iq have you ?
let me narrowed it down to you . if an item is lost and found then that item needs to be turned into the police , if it is not then the item is considered stolen.
that item simply didn't disappear. It was stolen along the way.
there is a difference between theft and larceny. If an item is lost and not turned in to the police then item will be considered stolen until the statute of limitations expires,
Larceny would be considered someone straight up stole the item. >>
Please do not play lawyer on the internet. You have no idea what you're talking about.
And you're the last person on this board who should ever be making a snide remark about someone else's IQ.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I wish someone loved logic as much as he loves cards. I got a headache trying to figure out that post. :-) >>
low iq have you ?
let me narrowed it down to you . if an item is lost and found then that item needs to be turned into the police , if it is not then the item is considered stolen.
that item simply didn't disappear. It was stolen along the way.
there is a difference between theft and larceny. If an item is lost and not turned in to the police then item will be considered stolen until the statute of limitations expires,
Larceny would be considered someone straight up stole the item. >>
Please do not play lawyer on the internet. You have no idea what you're talking about.
And you're the last person on this board who should ever be making a snide remark about someone else's IQ.
Nick >>
+1
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I wish someone loved logic as much as he loves cards. I got a headache trying to figure out that post. :-) >>
low iq have you ?
let me narrowed it down to you . if an item is lost and found then that item needs to be turned into the police , if it is not then the item is considered stolen.
that item simply didn't disappear. It was stolen along the way.
there is a difference between theft and larceny. If an item is lost and not turned in to the police then item will be considered stolen until the statute of limitations expires,
Larceny would be considered someone straight up stole the item. >>
Please do not play lawyer on the internet. You have no idea what you're talking about.
And you're the last person on this board who should ever be making a snide remark about someone else's IQ.
Nick >>
<< <i>Regardless if the item is stolen or lost the promoter will be responsible because it was in their care, custody and control. Under the commercial liability policy this would be covered if they do not find it.
Sorry that happened to you. >>
Most Commercial General Liability policies exclude coverage for items in their "care, custody & control" (unless endorsed otherwise).
IMF
<< <i>
<< <i>Regardless if the item is stolen or lost the promoter will be responsible because it was in their care, custody and control. Under the commercial liability policy this would be covered if they do not find it.
Sorry that happened to you. >>
Most Commercial General Liability policies exclude coverage for items in their "care, custody & control" (unless endorsed otherwise).
IMF >>
yes but you could argue negligence
<<
<<
<< I wish someone loved logic as much as he loves cards. I got a headache trying to figure out that post. :-) >>
low iq have you ?
let me narrowed it down to you . if an item is lost and found then that item needs to be turned into the police , if it is not then the item is considered stolen.
Just in the first comment "low iq have you?"
Not a complete statement/sentence/question, Low is capitalized, I.Q. is this way.
"let me narrowed it down to you." - So many issues that are wrong it is not worth the effort.
Even if the commercial policy excludes items in the custody, care and control of their client there is no doubt in my mind that they are responsible for this. I would be very pissed with my agent if he wrote me a policy and did not have this coverage on to my policy when he knows what type of items are being handled every day.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>ok name one thing I am wrong about in this situation. Name the thing I have said that is incorrect ?
<<
<<
<< I wish someone loved logic as much as he loves cards. I got a headache trying to figure out that post. :-) >>
low iq have you ?
let me narrowed it down to you . if an item is lost and found then that item needs to be turned into the police , if it is not then the item is considered stolen.
Just in the first comment "low iq have you?"
Not a complete statement/sentence/question, Low is capitalized, I.Q. is this way.
"let me narrowed it down to you." - So many issues that are wrong it is not worth the effort.
Even if the commercial policy excludes items in the custody, care and control of their client there is no doubt in my mind that they are responsible for this. I would be very pissed with my agent if he wrote me a policy and did not have this coverage on to my policy when he knows what type of items are being handled every day. >>
cop out .. could not make a valid argument other than some grammar , done by auto correct on iphone.
Left it in their court. I'll update you guys with their thoughts. I'm definitely in the get more bees with honey camp as opposed to a flamethrower. It's just my nature for better or worse and I'll take the outcomes of situations I've avoided starting in my life using that approach over others any day. That said, if it comes time to carpet bomb, I'm willing and able. But why do it before there is an offer on the table or something? I'm anxious to see their reaction to my email which included no "demands". The next reply of mine is likely to include questions about liability insurance.
Also, and this totally sucks, I have 5 movies going at the same time and have other/better work things going on. I just don't have the time to think about this 12 hours/day. It sucks because when work calms down, this is all I'll think about.
My Podcast - Now FEATURED on iTunes
https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
<< <i>ok name one thing I am wrong about in this situation. Name the thing I have said that is incorrect ?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I wish someone loved logic as much as he loves cards. I got a headache trying to figure out that post. :-) >>
low iq have you ?
let me narrowed it down to you . if an item is lost and found then that item needs to be turned into the police , if it is not then the item is considered stolen.
that item simply didn't disappear. It was stolen along the way.
there is a difference between theft and larceny. If an item is lost and not turned in to the police then item will be considered stolen until the statute of limitations expires,
Larceny would be considered someone straight up stole the item. >>
Please do not play lawyer on the internet. You have no idea what you're talking about.
And you're the last person on this board who should ever be making a snide remark about someone else's IQ.
Nick >>
>>
Almost everything you said is either wrong or an unwarranted assumption.
If you make the supposition (it's not a presumption) that the item was lost or mislaid (and we have nothing to go on to choose which of those two might have happened), you can't reasonably assume that it will ever be found. Valuable items get thrown away or destroyed sometimes, especially if they have been packaged so their nature is not apparent.
If it is found, the law of the particular state where it was found dictates the finder's (and owner of the place of finding's) rights and responsibilities (or federal law, if it's found in certain places). Most states now require finders of valuable property to turn it in to police or to the owner of the place where it was found. Failure to do so is often a crime - and some states explicitly call it larceny. If the property is worth thousands of dollars, there's a lot more than 90 days for the owner to get it back in every state I'm aware of (usually at least 1 year). And at the end of that time, if the owner hasn't come back for it, the finder or premises owner, depending on the circumstances, can get the property, rather than it being sold at auction.
If you make the supposition of an original theft, it is not warranted to assume a Steiner employee was the thief. Anyone from a baggage handler to a maid could be the thief just as easily - and if the thief wasn't a Steiner employee, the crime might be burglary or something else rather than larceny.
Fergie was pretty much spot on.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
the item was stolen, plain and simple...
if it was your item. YOUR thoughts would be different...
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
<< <i>if it was your item. YOUR thoughts would be different... >>
+1
Let's not derail this thread by going at each other. The OP trusted someone with his piece, whether it has been lost or stolen, the bottom line is he doesn't have it back in his hands where it belongs.
~WalterSobchak
This is a monster piece of memorabilia and it's theft is horrible.
I would estimate the value between $18,000 - $20,000, but would still rather have the item than that amount.
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
<< <i>stop messing with this guy...
the item was stolen, plain and simple...
if it was your item. YOUR thoughts would be different... >>
If I had to bet, I'd say stolen. But considering how much stuff gets thrown away by idiot hotel employees or destroyed by careless or malicious airport employees, I don't discount those possibilities. [I spent a couple years flying twice a week for work, and I could relate horror stories for hours.]
Either way, I feel horrible for Vito, and I hope he gets his original litho back undamaged.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
Will be at UPS next week too
My Podcast - Now FEATURED on iTunes
I guess at this point all they can do is make a strong offer to you financially, offer something or a similar piece. I dunno, but I hope things work out the way you want. Sorry again this happened to you.
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
problems.. I have said it many times .. Do not send anything that can't be replaced via Fed Ex or UPS!
If its registered it can't fall off the truck..
This is terrible news and I feel for you...
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
<< <i>I appreciate that link. I'll have some news this week presumably. Steiner has essentially asked me to make them a proposal. I'm sending them three options. If we can't come to an understanding, I'll be going the small claims court route I think. >>
Best of luck Mike. I hope those three options are all worth a lot of $$$$.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
hope you guys come to an agreement faster.
I wouldn't hold your breath though. After talking to this gentleman about the whole ordeal
also they never found who "stole" the jacket, Steiner never filed a police report, they had to themselves.
and of course the jacket was never found
they want you to send them a proposal?
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
<< <i>Why would anyone think they can sell either item.......they are as unique as the Mona Lisa... >>
They will eventually surface. After all of us are dead and gone probably. And worth a mint!
<< <i>I can't believe they didn't send this registered mail? If they sent this UPS or Fed Ex they are just asking for
problems.. I have said it many times .. Do not send anything that can't be replaced via Fed Ex or UPS!
If its registered it can't fall off the truck..
This is terrible news and I feel for you... >>
Please explain? What is the safest way to send items in the thousands$$?
<< <i>that is rich...
they want you to send them a proposal? >>
I'd go with "Get my priceless and irreplaceable item back to me or I'll make sure you end up standing on a street corner wearing a barrel."
<< <i>
<< <i>I can't believe they didn't send this registered mail? If they sent this UPS or Fed Ex they are just asking for
problems.. I have said it many times .. Do not send anything that can't be replaced via Fed Ex or UPS!
If its registered it can't fall off the truck..
This is terrible news and I feel for you... >>
Please explain? What is the safest way to send items in the thousands$$? >>
Depends on how many thousands. For items under and up to $25,000 USPS Registered Mail with full value insurance coverage is the way I do it. Have shipped things over that amount, but in order to get around the $25,000 cutoff, I just put them in more than one box and ship them separately. However, if it's a single item over $25,000, I don't know what the best method is.
MIke
I made them three proposals, any of which I'd be reasonably satisfied with. They have said they're considering. I expect to hear next week. I won't post them publicly in case they need to stipulate that I don't publicize it if and when they acquiesce. If we've PM'd excessively in the past I'll let you know what they were privately if you want to know.
My Podcast - Now FEATURED on iTunes
<< <i>For the record, I don't know how they lost it, apparently internally on the way back from the Ewing signing and not on it's way back to me.
>>
???
What did they specifically tell you?
If you can say...
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
<< <i>For the record, I don't know how they lost it, apparently internally on the way back from the Ewing signing and not on it's way back to me.
I made them three proposals, any of which I'd be reasonably satisfied with. They have said they're considering. I expect to hear next week. I won't post them publicly in case they need to stipulate that I don't publicize it if and when they acquiesce. If we've PM'd excessively in the past I'll let you know what they were privately if you want to know. >>
Keep taking the high road and I sincerely hope it pays off.
Mike, you deserve what every you ask for within reason...and I know you are a reasonable person. Just dont cut yourself short! Ask 40-50% more than you want because they will try to negotiate you down.
Good luck to you
Based on what I've read in this thread I will NEVER purchase anything from Steiner.
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I can't believe they didn't send this registered mail? If they sent this UPS or Fed Ex they are just asking for
problems.. I have said it many times .. Do not send anything that can't be replaced via Fed Ex or UPS!
If its registered it can't fall off the truck..
This is terrible news and I feel for you... >>
Please explain? What is the safest way to send items in the thousands$$? >>
Depends on how many thousands. For items under and up to $25,000 USPS Registered Mail with full value insurance coverage is the way I do it. Have shipped things over that amount, but in order to get around the $25,000 cutoff, I just put them in more than one box and ship them separately. However, if it's a single item over $25,000, I don't know what the best method is.
MIke >>
What Mike said and I would add anything over 25,000 I would probably hire a courier service that I trusted. Depending on the item
and rarity? I would probably get on a plane for 4 500 and hand deliver it for something over 25,000... If I was running an auction house
then everything would go registered..
I worked for DHL for 9 years as a driver... Trust me you don't want to send anything that is valuable through UPS,DHL or FedEx.......
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658