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Please be on the lookout - NBA 50 Greatest Litho signed by 35 - lost by promoter
VitoCo1972
Posts: 6,127 ✭✭✭
Guys, I'm pretty upset to have to be posting this here but just being safe. If you ever followed my autograph thread you may remember I've been working on the below NBA 50 Greatest Players lithograph for three years. I have a ton of time, effort and money into it (probably $6000+). On December 15 or thereabout I sent it in to Steiner Sports to add Patrick Ewing as the 36th signature on in. And somewhere between him signing it in front of their guy in Charlotte and the way back to the Steiner office in New York, it went missing.
They assure me they're doing everything they can to find it and we've agreed to wait two more weeks before discussing a solution that does not involve me receiving my lithograph back. I don't even want to get into that here. It's easily the piece that I like more than all the others in my collection and I've met 25 of the guys that signed it in person. It's the kind of piece I envisioned passing down to my kids.
I'm posting this here because like the skeptical person I am, I've been scouring eBay daily to see if it somehow pops up on there. If you see this lithograph for sale anywhere, please notify me so I can notify the authorities. Thanks guys. Always appreciate it.
They assure me they're doing everything they can to find it and we've agreed to wait two more weeks before discussing a solution that does not involve me receiving my lithograph back. I don't even want to get into that here. It's easily the piece that I like more than all the others in my collection and I've met 25 of the guys that signed it in person. It's the kind of piece I envisioned passing down to my kids.
I'm posting this here because like the skeptical person I am, I've been scouring eBay daily to see if it somehow pops up on there. If you see this lithograph for sale anywhere, please notify me so I can notify the authorities. Thanks guys. Always appreciate it.
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Comments
IMF
Hope they find it soon
Hopefully they find it but if it continues to be MIA, may want to consider an exemption that if it's recovered down the line, you have the option to refund the settlement proceeds.
Good luck.
Let me know.
or did their guy steal it ?
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
I have been following your work on it since you started and can remember helping you with it with some guys
Stay positive, hopefully it will turn up and be returned to you man
I will keep my eyes out for it here out East the best I can
What a shame as it's very irreplaceable on a personal standpoint, I hope heads roll on this
Sorry to hear about this, I sure hope they find it for you. How many different promoters have you used on the piece so far? It would be interesting to know the # of promoters that were involved prior to having Steiner (of all companies) lose the item.
Good luck and wishing you the best to have it back home!
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
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<< <i>Hey Mike,
Sorry to hear about this, I sure hope they find it for you. How many different promoters have you used on the piece so far? It would be interesting to know the # of promoters that were involved prior to having Steiner (of all companies) lose the item.
Good luck and wishing you the best to have it back home! >>
Good question, Joe. I was curious, so here's where all the signatures came from:
Abdul Jabbar (Suntimes Show / jswieton help)
Archibald (CSA Chantilly / my father in law got it done)
Barry (SCN member private signing)
Bayloe (got myself at an appearance in LA)
Bing (CSA Chantilly / father in law attended)
Cousy (Hometown Collectibles private signing)
Cowens (CSA Chantilly / father in law)
Drexler (Fiterman Sports private signing)
Erving (SCN member took to a signing in Philly)
Frazier (can't remember!)
Gervin (SCN member private signing)
Havlicek (Rich Altman's Boston Show)
Elvin Hayes (SCN member private signing)
Magic Johnson (got myself at an LA appearance)
Sam Jones (Rich Altman's Boston Show)
Jerry Lucas (jerrylucas.com send-in)
Moses Malone (SCN member private signing)
Kevin McHale (CSA Chantilly - father in law)
Earl Monroe (CSA Chantilly - father in law)
Olajuwon (Fiterman Sports private signing)
O'Neal (Frank and Son here in Los Angeles appearance)
Parish (CSA Chantilly - father in law)
Pettit (St Louis Sports Collectors Show SCN member took for me)
Robertson (Suntimes Show - jswieton)
Robinson (DenverAutographs send in)
Russell (Rich Altman's Boston Show)
Schayes (CSA Chantilly - father in law)
Sharman (met him at NBA All Star Weekend 2011 - super nice guy - RIP)
Thurmond (SCN member private signing)
Unseld (SCN member private signing)
Walton (met him at an LA appearance)
West (met him promoting the LA Open golf tournament)
Wilkens (the only TTM one of these!!)
Worthy (met him at an LA appearance and got in a bad car accident on the way back)
As an update, Steiner has agreed to begin putting another one together in the meantime while we wait a few weeks to see if it shows up. They say they have 7 of the Top 50 scheduled in the near future. But I'll never have the personal connection to it that I had to mine. It was a lot of waiting in line and fingernail biting while it was out in the mail or at a signing. And they obviously can't replace Sharman since he's passed on. Cousy and Schayes are also in their late 80's.
I'm still hoping (although it's fading) that they'll find mine. But in the event they don't, I'm going to insist on two stipulations if they have to start a new one:
1) They must add one guy that I didn't have because Bill Sharman is dead and cannot be replaced - and if any others that I had were to pass on before they add them, they must add another guy to replace them
2) If my lithograph ever shows up on eBay, it still belongs to me. They are not "buying me out" by replacing the lithograph with a new one. And we will be calling the authorities if it shows up for sale somewhere.
Thoughts?
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<< <i>As an update, Steiner has agreed to begin putting another one together in the meantime while we wait a few weeks to see if it shows up. They say they have 7 of the Top 50 scheduled in the near future. But I'll never have the personal connection to it that I had to mine. It was a lot of waiting in line and fingernail biting while it was out in the mail or at a signing. And they obviously can't replace Sharman since he's passed on. Cousy and Schayes are also in their late 80's.
I'm still hoping (although it's fading) that they'll find mine. But in the event they don't, I'm going to insist on two stipulations if they have to start a new one:
1) They must add one guy that I didn't have because Bill Sharman is dead and cannot be replaced - and if any others that I had were to pass on before they add them, they must add another guy to replace them
2) If my lithograph ever shows up on eBay, it still belongs to me. They are not "buying me out" by replacing the lithograph with a new one. And we will be calling the authorities if it shows up for sale somewhere.
Thoughts? >>
That sounds very reasonable to me, but they might not agree to #2. Please keep us updated.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
<< <i>
That sounds very reasonable to me, but they might not agree to #2. Please keep us updated. >>
You might be right. But to me that's the only protection against someone in house having stolen it.
The other theory I had - although it would mean a lot more work for me...would be to have them send me a new one with 7-8 guys or whatever along with a cash payout AND an agreement that if Steiner ever has one of the guys in, I can send it in for free to be signed. That would alleviate my fear that they're going to stop giving a crap about this after 2-3 months and stop replying to my emails. It's just human nature.
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Or, take a cash settlement with them & start other projects with the money....
Good luck.
Several years ago I was in communication with the last survivor if the Titanic disaster. We exchanged letters and she agreed to sign a 1924 hand tinted photo taken aboard the Adriatic, the ship that her mother and she took back to England after the loss of her father. The same Adriatic that Titanic's Captain Smith brought over in 1907 when he made is comments about modern shipbuilding having gone beyond sinking.
Anyway, it never arrived. Lost, stolen on the high seas...who knows...the photo was clearly inscribed to me and it said "from the last survivor of the Titanic" so all you have to do is read it to see the value. Months passed. The dear lady grew ill and my chances of further interaction grew smaller and smaller.
It arrived to me on a Saturday, in an unmarked, unsealed envelope with no postage due. You never know
I hope you have the same luck!
Eric
It's actually not the first multi-signed item I've ever had lost. I once sent a TTM to Orville Moody, the 1969 US Open champion and a great TTM signer. The item was an embroidered US Open Flag w/ 22 signatures (including Trevino/Player/Palmer) from past winners on it. I sent it out and he passed away about a month later. I tried sending letters hoping someone would return all his accumulated mail. No dice. That was 5+ years ago.
Now I never TTM pieces that have more than a few signatures on it. I felt pretty safe w/ Steiner. Ugh.
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You get it all in writing on what they will replace. I still would not due it . It will never get done and you are pretty much giving up your right to it , even if it shows up . Once a settlement is paid you are legally agreeing to give up your right to the item. Its like if your car is stolen and the insurance pays you out, you have 0 absolutely 0 claim to it.
Anyone can at that point sell it and if you agreed to some kind of settlement well its theirs. I know my company buys lost mail all the time. People cry to me about things belonging to them after they got paid an insurance claim. Well only option they have is buying it back from me at claim cost plus my costs.
I would not do it .......
You need to , I repeat you need to file a police report with the Local Police to Steiner. That is a must. Let them investigate it. Might put more pressure on whoever stole it. Also police are given database information from every pawnshop that gets an item , its logged into some police system in most states.
If you don't do those two things, might as well be giving it up. Don't forget after 90 days someone can own it legally if its turned into any police or postal courier
<< <i>
<< <i>Hey Mike,
Sorry to hear about this, I sure hope they find it for you. How many different promoters have you used on the piece so far? It would be interesting to know the # of promoters that were involved prior to having Steiner (of all companies) lose the item.
Good luck and wishing you the best to have it back home! >>
Good question, Joe. I was curious, so here's where all the signatures came from:
Abdul Jabbar (Suntimes Show / jswieton help)
Archibald (CSA Chantilly / my father in law got it done)
Barry (SCN member private signing)
Bayloe (got myself at an appearance in LA)
Bing (CSA Chantilly / father in law attended)
Cousy (Hometown Collectibles private signing)
Cowens (CSA Chantilly / father in law)
Drexler (Fiterman Sports private signing)
Erving (SCN member took to a signing in Philly)
Frazier (can't remember!)
Gervin (SCN member private signing)
Havlicek (Rich Altman's Boston Show)
Elvin Hayes (SCN member private signing)
Magic Johnson (got myself at an LA appearance)
Sam Jones (Rich Altman's Boston Show)
Jerry Lucas (jerrylucas.com send-in)
Moses Malone (SCN member private signing)
Kevin McHale (CSA Chantilly - father in law)
Earl Monroe (CSA Chantilly - father in law)
Olajuwon (Fiterman Sports private signing)
O'Neal (Frank and Son here in Los Angeles appearance)
Parish (CSA Chantilly - father in law)
Pettit (St Louis Sports Collectors Show SCN member took for me)
Robertson (Suntimes Show - jswieton)
Robinson (DenverAutographs send in)
Russell (Rich Altman's Boston Show)
Schayes (CSA Chantilly - father in law)
Sharman (met him at NBA All Star Weekend 2011 - super nice guy - RIP)
Thurmond (SCN member private signing)
Unseld (SCN member private signing)
Walton (met him at an LA appearance)
West (met him promoting the LA Open golf tournament)
Wilkens (the only TTM one of these!!)
Worthy (met him at an LA appearance and got in a bad car accident on the way back)
As an update, Steiner has agreed to begin putting another one together in the meantime while we wait a few weeks to see if it shows up. They say they have 7 of the Top 50 scheduled in the near future. But I'll never have the personal connection to it that I had to mine. It was a lot of waiting in line and fingernail biting while it was out in the mail or at a signing. And they obviously can't replace Sharman since he's passed on. Cousy and Schayes are also in their late 80's.
I'm still hoping (although it's fading) that they'll find mine. But in the event they don't, I'm going to insist on two stipulations if they have to start a new one:
1) They must add one guy that I didn't have because Bill Sharman is dead and cannot be replaced - and if any others that I had were to pass on before they add them, they must add another guy to replace them
2) If my lithograph ever shows up on eBay, it still belongs to me. They are not "buying me out" by replacing the lithograph with a new one. And we will be calling the authorities if it shows up for sale somewhere.
Thoughts? >>
Very sorry to hear about this mike and hope it finds its way back to you safe and sound
Only an idiot would have a message board signature.
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Ralph
https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/
<< <i>I personally wouldn't accept any type of replacement piece, esecially one that won't be 'finished' for several years. They dropped the ball and should overcompensate for losing such a sentimental piece of memorabilia. What they are offering won't cost them a dime and will require minimal effort. >>
I'll co-sign this.
Unless they return the original piece safe and sound, they should suffer some repercussions.
Thanks,
<< <i>
<< <i>Mike - I would start preparing for lawsuit. I wouldn't take their promise for a solution, you need legal protection. >>
sound advice
you being in california, there is no shortage of attorneys
if i were representing steiner, and i'm not, i would seek to resolve this as soon as possible and try to get you to waive civil code 1542 >>
Exactly. Also there is reputation risk for Steiner if this story hit the hobby media, heck this type of story might even hit sports media. Steiner is a big name in the sports memorabilia world and if they "lost" a significant piece like yours, it would damage their name. As we know from BBCE and Steve Hart, a good rep in this hobby is worth $$$$.
I've been burned many times by people I could supposedly trust in this hobby and there is no way I would cut Steiner any slack. A letter from an attorney should get the ball rolling. They will try everything in their power for you not to retain legal help.
If anything it will expose the weak chain of custody process these clowns have. It seems that the urine sample I give my doctor has more safeguards than Steiner. I could understand if this was a basketball card or photo, but this is a freakin historical piece!
I am not super worried about ruffling any feathers, but like I keep saying, I would honestly much rather have a replacement piece than a financial settlement. Call me stupid. I probably am. The reason I would rather have replacement piece is the amount of time and effort it takes to re-create something like this. I would rather that burden be on someone else. I would also like to know what you guys would be asking in compensation. That means including a replacement piece or not.
My fear is that you could never compensate me for time and energy in financial reparations. I am guessing the financial settlement would be along the lines of equal value to every signer's signing fee at last posted price. That would not take into account the $80 it would cost to send it to every signing each time it went out. That's also part of my motivation to have a replacement piece. The replacement unsigned lithograph itself that they would have to buy is currently listed on eBay for $399 or best offer. I am very concerned about any settlement that would include Steiner credit. They are easily the most expensive memorabilia company in the country and there would never be equal value.
I agree that their reputation is at stake. That said, I am one guy amongst hundreds and thousands of successes. It might be different if I was dealing with a mid-level promoter. I don't know, I am just musing but definitely anxious to hear advice.
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Out of curiosity, didn't you have to agree in writing that they would only be responsible for your item up to a certain dollar threshold in order to participate in their send in signings? I thought I remember that being part of their terms and conditions that I had to agree to and sign off on when I used to send them items for their signings. Not that that would necessarily protect them from their own negligence but it could stand in the way or at least make it potentially more difficult for you
Irregardless, I would think they would be better served by not trying to play that hand and instead compensating you fully in exchange for you agreeing to keep silent about it in the future
That sucks to read, I really hope you get your piece back, I've enjoyed watching your progress over the years on that thing. I wouldn't be surprised if they inadvertently shipped it accidentally to one of their other clients that sent stuff in. Hopefully if that's the case, it went to someone that has good business ethics and will send it back
good luck
I would want a complete payout and then pay someone to get all the replacement fees or buy another one similar. How long would it take them to fulfill your order ? Forget it , you will never even get anything back. I would not do this. NO way !
You need to file a police report with the local police to them. Call the non emergency number and ask to speak to a detective. This would be considered felony theft.
I would do this asap. What is going to change in the next two weeks ? They need to start giving you answers. Who is handling this for you with Steiner ? I would ask for the highest possible management person. All the way to the top. Someone stole this , it does not just get lost.
Send a detective to their offices. Let the police investigate the situation. they will get answers for you and protect
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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MINEOLA, N.Y. (CN) - A customer claims a sports memorabilia store in Long Island stole his "one-of-a-kind" Yankees game jacket passed down from three generations of his family and signed by 37 Yankee greats, including Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, Whitey Ford, Phil Rizzuto, Reggie Jackson and Derek Jeter.
Edward Kull says his grandfather got the jacket from "his friend, Jack Reed, an outfielder on the iconic 1961 Yankees World Series team." That was the year the Yanks beat the Red 4 games to 1 and Roger Maris broke Babe Ruth's home run record, the aggrieved fan added in his complaint in Nassau County Court.
His grandfather gave the jacket to his father, who gave it to him, Kull says. It bore nearly 40 autographs from Yankees players, managers, broadcasters, announcers and even owner George Steinbrenner.
Kull says he gave Steiner Sports the jacket and paid it $160 to get Yogi Berra to sign it. Berra was to be at the mall where Steiner Sports operates, on Nov. 26, 2007, and Kull says he couldn't make it that day.
Kull says he never saw the jacket again.
He says the store manager promised to keep the jacket in the display room under "around-the-clock" video surveillance, but employees put it in the only "blind spot" the cameras could not record.
When he returned several days after Berra's appearance, a new manager told him that the man to whom he gave the jacket had stolen it with help from other employees, Kull says.
The new boss said that "a host of other items had also recently gone missing" in an apparent "inside job," and the store had "cleaned house" by firing everyone suspected, according to the complaint.
Kull says Steiner Sports made no meaningful effort to get the jacket returned, and told him that it had contacted police immediately though it actually had delayed for 5 months.
Kull demands damages for breach of contract, conversion, unjust enrichment, negligence and fraud. He is represented by Joseph Di Salvo.
The complaint does not estimate how much the jacket is worth.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Well, I finally consulted my father-in-law who is an attorney. He convinced me that I am a complete idiot for not filing a police report right away. I will be doing it first thing in the morning. He also told me what I need to do is to find out the estimated retail value of it ASAP. Is anybody friends with one of the major auction houses that can give me a quote on its value ASAP? If one of you is friendly with someone on that level, please reach out to me via private message. >>
These things sell for about $45K complete, and you had 73% of it done so I'd say $32K is a good place to start.
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<< <i>Your father-in-law is an attorney and you are just contacting him now? File a report, hire an attorney and put their feet to the fire! >>
Well, to be fair, they really only admitted it was lost yesterday. But I'm certainly guilty of holding out too much hope out of blindness.
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