I'm not paying retail plus 17.5%

Manorcourtman

That's what I'm seeing tonight on a certain auction company venue!! These "big" auction houses are no longer auction houses but simple retail venues. The sell thru rates must be pretty darn low these days. 17.5% is ridiculous!!

tradedollarnut

1) it's possible you are low on what current retail is

2) it's shown again and again that some coins are cheaper on the bourse floor or online

AnkurJ

It's funny that many times I shy away from bidding on a coin because it seems expensive, that down the line it seemed like a good deal.

wondercoin

Makes no difference to me if the buyers' fee is 0%, 10%, 15%, 17 1/2% or even higher ... only thing that matters to me is buying the coin for a max bid (or less) of what I want to pay for it including the "juice". Seriously.

Wondercoin

Manorcourtman

<< <i>1) it's possible you are low on what current retail is

2) it's shown again and again that some coins are cheaper on the bourse floor or online >>



What is number 2 Alex

Bayard1908

The site I believe you're referencing has always had a problem with unrealistic reserves and now has a problem with unrealistic opening bids.

wondercoin

Bayard1908 ... I am seeing no less than (3) "Big" auction sites tonight with myriad coins not achieving their opening bid. And, I am looking very carefully at everything to be sure.

Wondercoin

Moldnut

<< <i>2) it's shown again and again that some coins are cheaper on the bourse floor or online >>



This is very true IMO. Ill often find coins on dealer websites that are much less than what they bring in auction. The last few sales of a 1917-S T2 Standing Liberty quarter in a PCGS AU58 FH are listed below. I purchased one this morning from a dealers site at a fair $300.

11/12 HA $282

08/12 DL $490

02/12 EB $561

04/11 HA $1,150

03/10 EB $409

Vbowling299

<< <i>

<< <i>2) it's shown again and again that some coins are cheaper on the bourse floor or online >>



This is very true IMO. Ill often find coins on dealer websites that are much less than what they bring in auction. The last few sales of a 1917-S T2 Standing Liberty quarter in a PCGS AU58 FH are listed below. I purchased one this morning from a dealers site at a fair $300.

11/12 HA $282

08/12 DL $490

02/12 EB $561

04/11 HA $1,150

03/10 EB $409 >>



sounds like quite a deal if the coin is all there!

Moldnut

>>

sounds like quite a deal if the coin is all there! >>



And it has a little green football too.

Vbowling299

wow, sounds like a great coin...too bad i missed it...must have been a site i dont frequent as i doubt i would have missed seeing it

MrEureka

I've said before that if it's not worth overpaying for a coin, it's probably not worth collecting it at all. In that light, "retail plus 17.5%" could easily be OK.

Sonorandesertrat

<< <i>I've said before that if it's not worth overpaying for a coin, it's probably not worth collecting it at all. In that light, "retail plus 17.5%" could easily be OK. >>

Bayard1908

<< <i>I've said before that if it's not worth overpaying for a coin, it's probably not worth collecting it at all. In that light, "retail plus 17.5%" could easily be OK. >>



Most coins are readily replaceable.

sparky64

A certain on-line auction house only charges 10%.
Not sure if it's considered "big" or not.

MidLifeCrisis

<< <i>

<< <i>I've said before that if it's not worth overpaying for a coin, it's probably not worth collecting it at all. In that light, "retail plus 17.5%" could easily be OK. >>

>>


too, but it has to be for the right coin. It pays (literally) to be very selective.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

...hey, the guys/gals over at the Auction house got to eat to... Haven't you seen them before, most of them don't push away from the dinner table unless they have to fight for seconds

Erik

mozin

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I've said before that if it's not worth overpaying for a coin, it's probably not worth collecting it at all. In that light, "retail plus 17.5%" could easily be OK. >>

>>


too, but it has to be for the right coin. It pays (literally) to be very selective. >>




I don't care what the auction house commission is, it makes no difference in the current value of a coin, the final price with the auction house commission is the current value of the coin --- PERIOD!!! All this other talk is simply talk.

MrEureka

<< I've said before that if it's not worth overpaying for a coin, it's probably not worth collecting it at all. In that light, "retail plus 17.5%" could easily be OK. >>



Most coins are readily replaceable.



I prefer to collect ones that are not "readily replaceable". Not just because I like special coins, but because I enjoy a good long hunt.

Moldnut

I think the OP is looking to flip, not collect.

Broadstruck

<< <i>

<< <i>2) it's shown again and again that some coins are cheaper on the bourse floor or online >>



This is very true IMO. Ill often find coins on dealer websites that are much less than what they bring in auction. The last few sales of a 1917-S T2 Standing Liberty quarter in a PCGS AU58 FH are listed below. I purchased one this morning from a dealers site at a fair $300.

11/12 HA $282

08/12 DL $490

02/12 EB $561

04/11 HA $1,150

03/10 EB $409 >>



Look forward to seeing your newp... BTW the 04/11 HA $1,150 example was, is, and forever will be a dawg

MrEureka

the final price with the auction house commission is the current value of the coin --- PERIOD!!!

That's true in a sense at the moment of the sale. But one second later, it's a whole new ball game.

Zoins

I also prefer coins that are not readily replaceable while recognizing that the more people that collect this way, the more bifurcation we'll have in the market.

MidLifeCrisis

<< <i>the final price with the auction house commission is the current value of the coin --- PERIOD!!!

That's true in a sense at the moment of the sale. But one second later, it's a whole new ball game. >>


Exactly.

If you are adamant about sticking to a certain price because "that's what the guide says" (i.e., a slave to the sheet), your collection will reflect that philosophy.

jmcu12

I simply set my price and don't go higher; building the BP into my bid. If/when I get outbid then so be it.

Walkerguy21D

<< <i><< the final price with the auction house commission is the current value of the coin --- PERIOD!!!

That's true in a sense at the moment of the sale. But one second later, it's a whole new ball game. >>

Exactly. >>


I would agree it's the current value of THAT particular coin, to THAT particular buyer. Just because someone else, and to some extent the under bidder,
wants to pay that, doesn't mean I should. Likewise, I don't revalue all the coins I presently own to whatever a comparable coin recently brought at auction.
As shown by the example of the SL quarter, auction prices are all over the map.

ambro51

.

ambro51

So what's your point?

ricko

If you like the coin, buy it!! If not, move on.....Cheers, RickO

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>So what's your point? >>



That it's easy to overpay and risk losing your ass if you want to sell the coin at a later date.

TwoSides2aCoin

I don't blame anyone for not paying more than their means.

renomedphys

Auction houses are good for at least two things:

1) Providing sellers with an avenue to dispose of their excess inventory (wherupon the market value can be determined).

2) Providing a place for the very best material to be seen and bid on by the greatest number of buyers (wherupon the market value can be determined).

CoinRaritiesOnline

<< <i>The final price with the auction house commission is the current value of the coin --- PERIOD!!! >>



In a perfect world in which all possible bidders know about the coin and successfully execute their maximum bid in every auction, big and small, anywhere in the world, you might be right.

timcoin

Isn't getting top dollar from the top buyers the whole point of an auction? Why would the auction company, or anyone for that matter, be looking to sell a coin for too little?

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>The final price with the auction house commission is the current value of the coin --- PERIOD!!! >>



In a perfect world in which all possible bidders know about the coin and successfully execute their maximum bid in every auction, big and small, anywhere in the world, you might be right. >>



The hard part in the real world is that it's nigh near impossible for the average person to connect with the few people that might be willing to pay more for the coin than they did. If it's the auction house in the OP that I'm thinking it is, I often see coins at or over GS ask and that's before the juice and shipping. Trying to sell such a coin to a new buyer for a profit plus shipping can be a daunting task. Even worse is that the bid increments of $25 or more can take their toll as well. I wonder if the potted plant is still bidding in their auctions. Do the potted plants bid in online auctions from Heritage and other auction houses too or is one generally up against a real live person?

jmski52

Sometimes the opportunity doesn't coincide with your available cash, but when it does you should consider the cost of lost opportunity as well.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Sometimes the opportunity doesn't coincide with your available cash, but when it does you should consider the cost of lost opportunity as well. >>



True, but my gut tells me that the OP is more likely about common widgets than anything extraordinary.

johnny9434

<< <i>

<< <i>1) it's possible you are low on what current retail is

2) it's shown again and again that some coins are cheaper on the bourse floor or online >>



What is number 2 Alex >>

it goes both ways on that. just saying is all

Elcontador

It depends on what you collect. If you want to get a nice for the grade generic coin, like an 1881 S Morgan in MS 65 or MS 66, or an 1883 No Cent Nickel in MS 65 or MS 66, I wouldn't waste my time with the large auction houses. You can do better with a private party or on the bourse.
I also think this would apply to most Seated or Barber type Dimes and Quarters coins in MS 65 as well. They are all readily available.

But if you're looking for something that is scarce and nice for the grade, like a Classic Half Cent in MS 65 RB, a nice for the grade tough date of early Seated Quarter, or a no problem Bust $ in AU, these coins don't come around often. For this reason, they usually make it to these auction houses, and they're worth whatever they bring on that particular auction date.

BillJones

Auctions get on my nerves as a collector. I almost never get anything at a "bargain" price quite often even at a comfortable price. There is always at least one other person who exercises what amounts to a "buy" bid, especially for tokens and medals. Some of these guys just will not quit no matter how high the bid gets.

It's a lot different for a generalist dealer because you can be open to anything that can make some money for you. But for a collector, with a limited want list, auctions are mostly just an expensive pain in the neck.

And sadly you can all you want about how the buyer's fees lower the hammer prices. Seems like there are more than a few bidders out them who treat them as a "throw away." I wish I'd had some customers like that when I was dealer.

roadrunner

The 17.5% add on (ie buyer's fee) is factored out by >95% of the bidders at auction. If you're in the bottom 5% that doesn't do this, then I would stop doing that.

You want to buy a coin at auction worth $500 max to you? Then you make your max bid $425 and leave it at that. If you get it for that bid, you'll end up paying $500 for it once that
17.5% fee is factored in. And if it's worth $500 to you and the market in general, you bought it right. The auction house pockets whatever fraction of that 17.5% that the seller wasn't
able to negotiate away. In most cases the seller's fee/commission is 0%. The auction house's profit is some portion of that 17.5% less all their costs. From what I've heard they might
only make 3%-8% on a typical auction once everything is factored in.

19Lyds

I have to REALLY want the coin before ever paying a 17.5% buyers fee which is why my activities have been cut by 99%

coinkat

MrE said/wrote it very well-

I will disagree in part to say some coins/medals are worth owning for the artist merit and/or historical significance even if such items can be found or replaced easily-

Collectors should consider different levels in terms of rarity, value and the fun associated with what is truly amazing even if it is inexpensive

PTVETTER

Some coin just seldom come to the market place and the ONLY way to find the right price is to auction the coin.
I once owned a seated half graded MS66
It was one of a kind with NO history
FYI the date was 1846 tal date
Without looking it up what would you pay?

Cougar1978

Teletrade has a 17.5% fee. I can recall when it was 6%. I simply bid what I am willing to pay and don't let myself be swayed by other bidders. I picked up five coins last night for around CDN bid even with the 17.5% tackon. I have noticed some consignors put in unrealistic starting bids and simply pass on these. Other coins are bid up to retail and I pass on these as well. I buy there for inventory which I can sell to retail customers and make about a 30% margin.

There are issues you can get easily close to bid and others with the competitive bidding your going to pay retail. This is especially true (paying retail) with 19th century type and gold. While one can get some good deals at Teletrade you have to do your homework.

On ebay I can use my snipe tool and stagger my bids over a long period of time so if early lots are successful I can cancel later snipes and avoiding spending more than I had budgeted.

wondercoin

" I buy there for inventory which I can sell to retail customers and make about a 30% margin"

So much for all those other coins being way overpriced with that 17 1/2% buyers fee !!

MrEureka

But for a collector, with a limited want list, auctions are mostly just an expensive pain in the neck.

Well, I suppose mail order is easier...

wondercoin

I mean this sincerely when I say it .... some of my greatest profit purchases have come from auctions with 17 1/2% buyers fees. A few dealers and/or collectors on this thread likely have had the same successes. Recently, I turned down an 800% profit on a 4 figure coin I bought at auction in the past 12 months having to pay a 17 1/2% BP in the process (offer was from a dealer by the way). Admittedly, the profit would have been closer to 840% had the buyers' fee been 5% lower in that auction.

Wondercoin

MrEureka

I mean this sincerely when I say it .... some of my greatest profit purchases have come from auctions with 17 1/2% buyers fees. A few dealers and/or collectors on this thread likely have had the same successes.

Same here. But I have to admit that it can be hard work.

breakdown

<< <i>

<< <i>The final price with the auction house commission is the current value of the coin --- PERIOD!!! >>



In a perfect world in which all possible bidders know about the coin and successfully execute their maximum bid in every auction, big and small, anywhere in the world, you might be right. >>



This is often forgotten and makes figuring out auctions a bit of an art. As an example, I am probably active as a bidder in only 2-3 auctions a year. I have bought one coin from auction this year -- from Legend Morphy and that's one more than I bought in 2012.

The 17.5 percent is annoying but I doubt it's affecting sell-through rates much.