The 17.5 percent is annoying but I doubt it's affecting sell-through rates much.
I'd guesstimate that auction commissions are "responsible" for at least a third of unsold lots. In other words, if auction companies were willing to work for free, more coins would get sold. It's moot, of course, because auction companies are run as businesses.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>In other words, if auction companies were willing to work for free, more coins would get sold. It's moot, of course, because auction companies are run as businesses. >>
If consigners were willing to accept losses on non-reserved lots, more coins would get sold, too.
<< <i>The 17.5 percent is annoying but I doubt it's affecting sell-through rates much.
I'd guesstimate that auction commissions are "responsible" for at least a third of unsold lots. In other words, if auction companies were willing to work for free, more coins would get sold. It's moot, of course, because auction companies are run as businesses. >>
Hey, I'm nothing if not inarticulate. I should have said i doubt the extra 2 and a half percent has affected sell-through rates much.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
<< <i>I've said before that if it's not worth overpaying for a coin, it's probably not worth collecting it at all. In that light, "retail plus 17.5%" could easily be OK. >>
I'll bet most guys wouldn't value their wives that highly, so just where are our priorities?
<< <i>I mean this sincerely when I say it .... some of my greatest profit purchases have come from auctions with 17 1/2% buyers fees. A few dealers and/or collectors on this thread likely have had the same successes. Recently, I turned down an 800% profit on a 4 figure coin I bought at auction in the past 12 months having to pay a 17 1/2% BP in the process (offer was from a dealer by the way). Admittedly, the profit would have been closer to 840% had the buyers' fee been 5% lower in that auction.
Wondercoin >>
Mitch,I agree,the coins i "overpaid" for are always the kind of coins that i have made my biggest profits on,and i am a collector.All there coins are priced high for a reason,EYE APPEAL.Just my 2 cents!
Great coins are not cheap,and cheap coins are not great!
<< <i>But for a collector, with a limited want list, auctions are mostly just an expensive pain in the neck.
Well, I suppose mail order is easier... >>
No, I don't care for mail order either. I go to major shows and work the floor. To me that is best place to find coins.
After a major auction house hosed me on an item this past spring, (The selling price to me was raised by $2,500 hours after the hammer had fallen in a live auction, because they claimed to have missed a "snail mail"bid.) it lowers your confidence that SOME auction houses treat their customers fairly.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>But for a collector, with a limited want list, auctions are mostly just an expensive pain in the neck.
Well, I suppose mail order is easier... >>
No, I don't care for mail order either. I go to major shows and work the floor. To me that is best place to find coins.
After a major auction house hosed me on an item this past spring, (The selling price to me was raised by $2,500 hours after the hammer had fallen in a live auction, because they claimed to have missed a "snail mail"bid.) it lowers your confidence that SOME auction houses treat their customers fairly. >>
I agree with this but would add markets are different for non-type collectors or people without extensive connections where dealers know and hold. Specialist collectors of modest means sometimes have to but where they can and have to put principles about venue to the side.
That said: I too witnessed a major auction house (not ha) pull an auction lot after being won after the underbidder threw a hissy fit. They threatened to withdraw the lot if the rightful new owner didn't agree to sell (at a profit) the rarity. The coin was a rarity that had not come up at auction since 1996 and they way they rolled over a collector really left a bad taste in my mouth.
We have to play by the exact rules but they get to hit the reset button when it suits them. The deck does appear stacks in their favor.
My experience was NOT with HA. According to the dealers I know, who bid a lot, they run a fair book.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>I mean this sincerely when I say it .... some of my greatest profit purchases have come from auctions with 17 1/2% buyers fees. A few dealers and/or collectors on this thread likely have had the same successes. Recently, I turned down an 800% profit on a 4 figure coin I bought at auction in the past 12 months having to pay a 17 1/2% BP in the process (offer was from a dealer by the way). Admittedly, the profit would have been closer to 840% had the buyers' fee been 5% lower in that auction.
Wondercoin >>
One can always find exceptions/anomalies at either end of the spectrum and it's the savvy bidder/buyer who can tell what those are. There are also many common widgets that are overpriced even before adding in the juice. As I said once before, a lot of the stuff on my TT watch list goes unsold. As long as it doesn't cost one anything more than time, it never hurts to ask for moon money at the outset. You never know, you just might get it.
The thing is that it's highly unlikely that ALL buyers will know about ALL coins for sale. This makes it possible for one to pay strong money for a coin and sell it [sometimes to a greater fool] for even stronger money.
This has nothing to do with "exceptions/anomalies"... in fact, I believe I am spending record amounts of money buying coins in auction with 17 1/2% premiums.
Also, the fact that Teletrade has coins that go unsold at their opening bids is of no importance to me. First, EVERY weekly auction house I follow has the same coins. Second, truth be told, I spend MORE money at Teletrade on a weekly basis than anywhere else and, believe me, I study the lots of a number of other weekly auction venue sites carefully. So, perhaps the argument would then be made that Teletrade is not getting the greater prices of various other venues for their weekly coin offerings. That's music to my ears when it comes to "ripping" those auction buys!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>This has nothing to do with "exceptions/anomalies"... in fact, I believe I am spending record amounts of money buying coins in auction with 17 1/2% premiums.
Also, the fact that Teletrade has coins that go unsold at their opening bids is of no importance to me. First, EVERY weekly auction house I follow has the same coins. Second, truth be told, I spend MORE money at Teletrade on a weekly basis than anywhere else and, believe me, I study the lots of a number of other weekly auction venue sites carefully. So, perhaps the argument would then be made that Teletrade is not getting the greater prices of various other venues for their weekly coin offerings. That's music to my ears when it comes to "ripping" those auction buys!
Wondercoin >>
Maybe a lot of your customers either don't peruse TT or don't know about it. A lot of folks don't shop at WalMart, some folks are willing to pay more just to spite WM. There is a newer grocery store right next to one of our 2 WMs here in Ames. Some of the stuff they sell, they could probly get cheaper at the WM next door than they could from their supplier. Perhaps it's simply that ignorance really is bliss or people don't care what something costs or they don't take the time to find out. Same with coins. I see lots of stuff bought at TT offered for sale here on the BST, eBay and other places. So perhaps TT really isn't getting the best prices for their consignors. Since coins from other auction houses are always up for resale, I'd say that Heritage and some of the others are in the same boat.
I really do not understand your last response, especially because I never even spoke of having any customers? Not even sure what my customers have to do with any of this? I am at Walmart all the time and I still do not understand the response.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>I really do not understand your last response, especially because I never even spoke of having any customers? Not even sure what my customers have to do with any of this? I am at Walmart all the time and I still do not understand the response.
Wondercoin >>
I assume that you are buying coins at auction plus 17.5% mostly for resale [those who purchase them would be your customers] or you have one hell of a collection. The point is that one can often find the same item at various prices and people seem to be willing to pay the highest as well as the lowest.
<< <i>The right coin can be picked off of Teletrade and sold at a profit on eBay just as "easily" as purchasing off of eBay and consigning to Teletrade.
Just got to know your field and know your market. >>
Of course. All I know is that in my narrow field of focus a lot of the stuff that I have interest in [esp. at TT] seems to me to be overpriced and that's before the juice. I also notice that 95% of it goes unsold time after time. I suppose that somewhere there is a buyer, but he/she and TT just aint connecting. Last thing I bought at Heritage I paid a lot more than PCGS guide which leads to wonder if the potted plant had an online account too. If not then there was at least one more bidder nearly as nutzo as me, tho the chance of me connecting with them is slim to non-existant.
I'd like to see a list of people here who paid the extra 15% to 17.5% "juice" over the past 15 years out of thier own pockets (ie not the consignor's or auction house). From reading this thread all I know is that Wondercoin and myself are not on it.
Is the buyers fee 10%? 15%? 17.5? I don't see any point in worring about it any longer than it takes to figure a max bid to account for the fee. As far as I'm concerned, my final cost is the only number that's important. How the auction house allocates the money is of no particular interest to me.
If this was ONLY about the amount of the buyers' fee and we could measure the quality of an auction house by that standard alone, then isn't it interesting that no one has even mentioned the weekly auction house that charges ZERO (0%) buyers fee!
I am not here to rank weekly auction venues, especially as measured by their buyers' premiums, but to simply share an opinion that IF you do your homework, you will likely do just fine (and certainly far better than having done no homework) regardless of the precious buyers' fee you are paying to buy your coins. Basically, what Braddick just said.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Comments
I'd guesstimate that auction commissions are "responsible" for at least a third of unsold lots. In other words, if auction companies were willing to work for free, more coins would get sold. It's moot, of course, because auction companies are run as businesses.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>In other words, if auction companies were willing to work for free, more coins would get sold. It's moot, of course, because auction companies are run as businesses. >>
If consigners were willing to accept losses on non-reserved lots, more coins would get sold, too.
1878-S Outrageous start price for a problem coin
Another one!
Yet another
I do ignore these, but wading thru nonsense like that really cheapens the site IMHO.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
<< <i>The 17.5 percent is annoying but I doubt it's affecting sell-through rates much.
I'd guesstimate that auction commissions are "responsible" for at least a third of unsold lots. In other words, if auction companies were willing to work for free, more coins would get sold. It's moot, of course, because auction companies are run as businesses. >>
Hey, I'm nothing if not inarticulate. I should have said i doubt the extra 2 and a half percent has affected sell-through rates much.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
I guess I'm really buried.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>I've said before that if it's not worth overpaying for a coin, it's probably not worth collecting it at all. In that light, "retail plus 17.5%" could easily be OK. >>
I'll bet most guys wouldn't value their wives that highly, so just where are our priorities?
<< <i>The final price with the auction house commission is the current value of the coin --- PERIOD!!! >>
Then why have many of us been offered profits for an auction win immediately following a sale?
<< <i>I mean this sincerely when I say it .... some of my greatest profit purchases have come from auctions with 17 1/2% buyers fees. A few dealers and/or collectors on this thread likely have had the same successes. Recently, I turned down an 800% profit on a 4 figure coin I bought at auction in the past 12 months having to pay a 17 1/2% BP in the process (offer was from a dealer by the way). Admittedly, the profit would have been closer to 840% had the buyers' fee been 5% lower in that auction.
Wondercoin >>
Mitch,I agree,the coins i "overpaid" for are always the kind of coins that i have made my biggest profits on,and i am a collector.All there coins are priced high for a reason,EYE APPEAL.Just my 2 cents!
<< <i>But for a collector, with a limited want list, auctions are mostly just an expensive pain in the neck.
Well, I suppose mail order is easier... >>
No, I don't care for mail order either. I go to major shows and work the floor. To me that is best place to find coins.
After a major auction house hosed me on an item this past spring, (The selling price to me was raised by $2,500 hours after the hammer had fallen in a live auction, because they claimed to have missed a "snail mail"bid.) it lowers your confidence that SOME auction houses treat their customers fairly.
<< <i>
<< <i>But for a collector, with a limited want list, auctions are mostly just an expensive pain in the neck.
Well, I suppose mail order is easier... >>
No, I don't care for mail order either. I go to major shows and work the floor. To me that is best place to find coins.
After a major auction house hosed me on an item this past spring, (The selling price to me was raised by $2,500 hours after the hammer had fallen in a live auction, because they claimed to have missed a "snail mail"bid.) it lowers your confidence that SOME auction houses treat their customers fairly. >>
I agree with this but would add markets are different for non-type collectors or people without extensive connections where dealers know and hold. Specialist collectors of modest means sometimes have to but where they can and have to put principles about venue to the side.
That said: I too witnessed a major auction house (not ha) pull an auction lot after being won after the underbidder threw a hissy fit. They threatened to withdraw the lot if the rightful new owner didn't agree to sell (at a profit) the rarity. The coin was a rarity that had not come up at auction since 1996 and they way they rolled over a collector really left a bad taste in my mouth.
We have to play by the exact rules but they get to hit the reset button when it suits them. The deck does appear stacks in their favor.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>The final price with the auction house commission is the current value of the coin --- PERIOD!!! >>
Then why have many of us been offered profits for an auction win immediately following a sale?
Perhaps the person or his client was willing to pay a premium to stay "under the radar"?
<< <i>I mean this sincerely when I say it .... some of my greatest profit purchases have come from auctions with 17 1/2% buyers fees. A few dealers and/or collectors on this thread likely have had the same successes. Recently, I turned down an 800% profit on a 4 figure coin I bought at auction in the past 12 months having to pay a 17 1/2% BP in the process (offer was from a dealer by the way). Admittedly, the profit would have been closer to 840% had the buyers' fee been 5% lower in that auction.
Wondercoin >>
One can always find exceptions/anomalies at either end of the spectrum and it's the savvy bidder/buyer who can tell what those are. There are also many common widgets that are overpriced even before adding in the juice. As I said once before, a lot of the stuff on my TT watch list goes unsold. As long as it doesn't cost one anything more than time, it never hurts to ask for moon money at the outset. You never know, you just might get it.
The thing is that it's highly unlikely that ALL buyers will know about ALL coins for sale. This makes it possible for one to pay strong money for a coin and sell it [sometimes to a greater fool] for even stronger money.
Also, the fact that Teletrade has coins that go unsold at their opening bids is of no importance to me. First, EVERY weekly auction house I follow has the same coins. Second, truth be told, I spend MORE money at Teletrade on a weekly basis than anywhere else and, believe me, I study the lots of a number of other weekly auction venue sites carefully. So, perhaps the argument would then be made that Teletrade is not getting the greater prices of various other venues for their weekly coin offerings. That's music to my ears when it comes to "ripping" those auction buys!
Wondercoin
<< <i>This has nothing to do with "exceptions/anomalies"... in fact, I believe I am spending record amounts of money buying coins in auction with 17 1/2% premiums.
Also, the fact that Teletrade has coins that go unsold at their opening bids is of no importance to me. First, EVERY weekly auction house I follow has the same coins. Second, truth be told, I spend MORE money at Teletrade on a weekly basis than anywhere else and, believe me, I study the lots of a number of other weekly auction venue sites carefully. So, perhaps the argument would then be made that Teletrade is not getting the greater prices of various other venues for their weekly coin offerings. That's music to my ears when it comes to "ripping" those auction buys!
Wondercoin >>
Maybe a lot of your customers either don't peruse TT or don't know about it. A lot of folks don't shop at WalMart, some folks are willing to pay more just to spite WM. There is a newer grocery store right next to one of our 2 WMs here in Ames. Some of the stuff they sell, they could probly get cheaper at the WM next door than they could from their supplier. Perhaps it's simply that ignorance really is bliss or people don't care what something costs or they don't take the time to find out. Same with coins. I see lots of stuff bought at TT offered for sale here on the BST, eBay and other places. So perhaps TT really isn't getting the best prices for their consignors. Since coins from other auction houses are always up for resale, I'd say that Heritage and some of the others are in the same boat.
Wondercoin
<< <i>I really do not understand your last response, especially because I never even spoke of having any customers?
Wondercoin >>
I assume that you are buying coins at auction plus 17.5% mostly for resale [those who purchase them would be your customers] or you have one hell of a collection. The point is that one can often find the same item at various prices and people seem to be willing to pay the highest as well as the lowest.
Just got to know your field and know your market.
peacockcoins
<< <i>The right coin can be picked off of Teletrade and sold at a profit on eBay just as "easily" as purchasing off of eBay and consigning to Teletrade.
Just got to know your field and know your market. >>
Of course. All I know is that in my narrow field of focus a lot of the stuff that I have interest in [esp. at TT] seems to me to be overpriced and that's before the juice. I also notice that 95% of it goes unsold time after time. I suppose that somewhere there is a buyer, but he/she and TT just aint connecting. Last thing I bought at Heritage I paid a lot more than PCGS guide which leads to wonder if the potted plant had an online account too. If not then there was at least one more bidder nearly as nutzo
From reading this thread all I know is that Wondercoin and myself are not on it.
Of course, as always, YMMV...
I am not here to rank weekly auction venues, especially as measured by their buyers' premiums, but to simply share an opinion that IF you do your homework, you will likely do just fine (and certainly far better than having done no homework) regardless of the precious buyers' fee you are paying to buy your coins. Basically, what Braddick just said.
Wondercoin