Many would agree with you both in Canada and the rest of the world........but I think differently....Even tho the price of gold has dropped not one of these coins has sold for anywhere close to the RCM price....so it would appear that on the immediate horizon the RCM has underpriced the issue and underestimated the demand
this is the hottest RCM issue in years.....after this is over its back to the usual boring RCM bling which consists of gemstones set into coins and the three bears issue in platinum or something like that....
These are the real thing and if u dont get one now youre gonna pay a premium in the future believe me
when they burn the 200,000 remaining coins then watch how the market reacts to that sin
its a sin to melt 100 year old coins...that is the true screw up which no one is talking about
200 max coins shipped per day is an embarrassment, at that rate it is almost half a year to send them all out. We will see how prices are when almost all the coins are out in collectors and flippers hands, the prices right after release are not always an accurate indicator of future rewards.
The premium coins do look pretty good but then you already have a larger premium built into those coins. Anyway good luck to those that are in, time will tell.
I pulled my order for 6 last week. After 2 months the wow factor was gone for me. I'm not a flipper and while the design is quite handsome I believe I would never enjoy the coins as I could have if the RCM had gotten them out in a timely manner. Putting this cash into the promise of a great 2013 Buffalo instead.
@realone.....Well I think that the fact is is a hundred year old issue of 3 separate years is incredible and unprecedented in modern times....and the further fact it is gold and not silver makes it even more numismatically valuable....The RCM has produced some brilliant modern bullion coins in silver and gold. However this offering will be traded and invested by a new host of collectors who never had the opportunity to get them at decent prices before....
..remember that they are listed in MS 63 from 1000 TO 3500 for the $5 and 2500 to 3500 for the $10
so you can downplay it all you want but they are being gobbled up as you speak and pretty soon the marketplace will be the only source of this gold treasure
Hey fellow collectors, I haven't read this entire thread but I was wondering how you pay the duties, taxes and customs fee's if any? Do they just charge the card in addition to the purchase price automatically or do they send you another bill in the mail or how does it work?
Beer is Proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy -Benjamin Franklin-
Realone, Though I happened to cancel my order on this one, it was mostly because of the drop in PM prices in combination with the miserable distribution of these pieces than anything else.
I happen to think you are wrong and wonder what drives you to expend so much effort in attempting to discredit this issue? I happen to like this coin design a lot. In fact, I think it far more attractive than the rare small coins you chase after with such enthusiasm. Beauty is indeed in the eye of th beholder.
This coin for many is a modest speculative venture with some intereting history and a reasonablly low risk to potential reward ratio. Why continue to splash cold water on the hopes and dreams of your fellow collecting friends?
Time will tell how this whole thing plays itself out.
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
I do not understand why RO is hating on this so much. There certainly are pros and cons, but I can think of a lot worse numismatic things to buy out there, and I can make very good arguments for owning these.
@ realalone...well that has got to be the most hilarious comments on this thread ive heard so far and im still lol on that one......so we should be buying PCGS slabs from the mint who should be begging collectors to please buy our awfully designed hoard of misplaced gold coins that were lost in our shabby vaults for 100 years......and then please refrain from saying anything nice about them so we can all sip our coffee on the dark side and chat in hushed whispers
Thanks for the clarification on your motives here Realone. You are our consumer advocate then...
Everything in life is a "promotional event" to one degree or another. This one is fairly low key in comparison to most...
At best, one gets a really nice 100 year old coin that grades well and picks up a nuministic premium. At worst one is stuck with an Unc 100 year old coin with lots of bag marks and a precious metals holding....
Caveat emptor
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
I do not understand why RO is hating on this so much. There certainly are pros and cons, but I can think of a lot worse numismatic things to buy out there, and I can make very good arguments for owning these. >>
+1. I don't see much downside. The design is very cool (IMHO), it's 100 years old, a very limited series issued by our neighboring country in the same size/denominations as our own gold coins from that era, and even with the recent fall in gold prices, there's not much of a markup over melt price.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
If someone was offering $5 or $10 Canadian gold coins on the BST dated 1912-1914, guaranteed authentic and in UNC condition, for these prices, I don't think anyone would be calling them out. The $10s in UNC condition have generally sold for around $1,300-$1,500 in Heritage auction archives. The $5's have also sold for a nice premium over spot in UNC condition.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
<< <i> I alaways though that only , having a stock photo and a sellers written description with a no return policy is something that turns our members off. >>
The Canadian's mint's policy (stock photos, no grade guarantee) is very similar to the US Mint and other government mints both currently and historically. The only difference I can see if the lack of a return policy.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
<< <i>But when unknown members, ones that just joined come here and start advertising their jump in vlaue or give then accolades without any of the members who bought them letting us know what they llok like I believe that caution needs to be tossed out into the wind for a fair and balanced viewpoint. >>
Oh- I get it now. You're the self-appointed Coin Police and all you're doing it trying to help. Yeah, that's it.
I have to say, there are some posts that I felt were of the hype type.
I appreciate the OP posting the thread. I feel that those that want to buy SHOULD buy. I also feel that those that are super enthusiastic are ok, but, I hope it is just their own super-enthusiasm and not someone wanting to hype it (ie...getting some to sell and then trying to drive up the price/demand and sell).
I do realize that some folks that are selling have done so quietly. Maybe state their point and then let it be and go on and just sell. nothing at all wrong with that.
<< <i>without any of the members who bought them letting us know what they llok like >>
Good point; I would also like to see some photos from people on this site who have gotten theirs. However, the photos I've seen elsewhere of specific coins from this Hoard generally look pretty nice.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
well as im the mouthiest new kid on the block i am pleased to contribute to this thread which will eventually hit 100 pages like the CCF thread has hit on this topic already..FYI CHECK OUT THE COIN COMMUNITY FORUM thread on this topic
if I dont seem new its because I aint new...im an older guy! tho not quite as old as the Canada Gold Reserve coins
Facts.....did u know that these Gold coins lying around in dusty old mint bags represent 37% of the total mintage but the released coins only represent an increase of 4.5% when u do the math after they burn the 200K leftovers there will be a net decrease in the mintage of these 3 years of 32.5% that should calm the market
when i get back into camera mode i will take some shots of the several pieces ive already received including the PS 1914 5.00
<< <i>without any of the members who bought them letting us know what they llok like >>
Good point; I would also like to see some photos from people on this site who have gotten theirs. However, the photos I've seen elsewhere of specific coins from this Hoard generally look pretty nice. >>
TomB bought some to sell and has a BST listed with photos. I admit, seeing his photos of the coins in the BST almost got me to re-thinking and doing a buy, but my funds are better of elsewhere right now, I don't collect non-US, and I don't like how the Canadian govt is handling these. That all said, go to Tom's BST thread if you want to see some. He takes nice pics and shows the coins well; including in the PCGS holder they are now in.
The Can. Mint really screwed the pooch on this one! They had thousands sold into their hype when the offering began. Now, not so much! I think they did many greedy Americans a favor by prolonging the shipping! It forced many to rethink their pipe dreams of instant riches! They should have sold and quickly shipped while the hype irons were hot! I wonder how many sales have been lost to American cancellations? Something tells me quite a few. It's now just an interesting footnote in numismatic history and not an earthshattering event as some around here would have had you believe. A flippers paradise lost.
<< <i>Consider me a FOX NEWS commentator without the press credintials in fact without any credintials of any kind whatsoever. >>
Though I can now appreciate where you're coming from a bit better, you're not helping your cause much with this comparison IMO. NOT a fan of said Network...... Nuff said as I know many here love them.....
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
I suspect most of the cancellations are from greedy americans but you said that not me
do you honestly believe that our poor bumbling RCM has driven the overly bored and broke coin collecting public away from this antique gold release because of a few weeks delay in shipping?
maybe the big dealers conspired to slow things down so they could get their PCGS gold label coins on the market before anyone else
think about it....I betcha Hall and co. are counting on a slow release
and maybe they are paying me to drive up the price of this issue
<< <i>screwed the pooch!..ill have to remember that one
I suspect most of the cancellations are from greedy americans but you said that not me
do you honestly believe that our poor bumbling RCM has driven the overly bored and broke coin collecting public away from this antique gold release because of a few weeks delay in shipping?
maybe the big dealers conspired to slow things down so they could get their PCGS gold label coins on the market before anyone else
think about it....I betcha Hall and co. are counting on a slow release
and maybe they are paying me to drive up the price of this issue
I have been recently staying out of this thread because it has largely gone off the rails, but there has been some asking about what these look like from those who have them in-hand. I have a number of them and even have them listed on my website and the BST. The coins are nice; they have original skin with little or no copper spots, a very attractive ring of lemon-orange toning that clings to the edges and they are pretty darn mark free with gem or near-gem reverses with the obverse being the side to determine the grade. I have seen no dogs come through for this issue, no excessively marked up coins and no hazy pieces. Additionally, I am selling these at pretty much the same number (+/- something) as one would need to buy a generic Liberty eagle in the same grade and less than a generic Indian eagle.
I don't mean to sound like a commercial, but these coins are what original, century old, unboinked gold can look like and many (most?) don't have the opportunity to often own or see that level of preservation in US gold. Some folks are really defending these while others are hammering them a bit too hard for their knowledge base, in my opinion. I like them for their artistry, history, numismatics and relatively low premium for bullion. In fact, I have kept a number for myself. Here is one of the reverses for an MS63-
Years ago I worked on an ANA committee with Alan Herbert to produce an official list if numismatic terms and their definitions, and I don't think we included "unboinked."
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Nice coins and Tom I do understand your point. However, I'd still rather own a US $10 Indian or Liberty. On a side note, you may get more interest if you posted your coins in the world BST, no?
All coins kept in bank vaults. PCGS Registries Box of 20 SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
Thanks for sharing the photo Tom. I agree that this thread should have been on the World Forum all along really.... Perhaps a quick link to it here just as a "heads-up" would have been cool. I still like the coin a lot and would be in if it weren't for Charmy posting that insanely gorgeous 55 DDO and setting my sights on another target for my next significant aquisition... Just a shift in focus!
"off the rails"..... Yes sir!!!
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
" These coins are also the quintessential example of original gold coinage that has sat undisturbed for approximately a century and has never been dipped, wiped, exposed to putty or otherwise abused. That is, they are fabulous examples of what original skin gold should look like and, as such, they are great teaching tools for the numismatist. Currently, they are offered at not much over their gold bullion value, but they are so much more than gold bullion."
quote from Thomas Bush ebay listing on the 1913 PCGS MS 63 $10.00
Well, we'll at least find out what an MS63 is worth in the aftermarket, and what the level of demand is in terms of number of units that trade, and what sort of net profit is earned by slabbing and flipping these. Educational!
All I am saying is: photo of coin that you won't be receiving! sight unseen purchase! no returns allowed! a dealer's opinion is given as to their general unc condition but not a tpg's opinion!
This could have applied to the 1970's GSA sales as well. How did those turn out for everyone? And you didn't even get a generic photo.
I agree with TomB on this one. Nice, unmessed with early gold at modest premiums to bullion. You pay a stiffer premium for common date MS63 and MS64 Morgan dollars. Same comment for many MS61-63 generic US gold coins 1900-1932. I don't see anyone out there waving the red flag to protect collectors from these "over-hyped traps."
Interesting that as the gold price tumbled since October, many buyers have became more "altruistic" and stepped aside in order to allow those less fortunate to acquire some.
<< <i>All I am saying is: photo of coin that you won't be receiving! sight unseen purchase! no returns allowed! a dealer's opinion is given as to their general unc condition but not a tpg's opinion!
This could have applied to the 1970's GSA sales as well. How did those turn out for everyone? And you didn't even get a generic photo.
I agree with TomB on this one. Nice, unmessed with early gold at modest premiums to bullion. You pay a stiffer premium for common date MS63 and MS64 Morgan dollars. Same comment for many MS61-63 generic US gold coins 1900-1932. I don't see anyone out there waving the red flag to protect collectors from these "over-hyped traps."
Interesting that as the gold price tumbled since October, many buyers have became more "altruistic" and stepped aside in order to allow those less fortunate to acquire some. >>
To be fair, RR, some of us (myself I can speak for ), canceled for other reasons and wasn't even tracking the price of gold at the time of cancelation. I saw some more hyping going on (similar to what the new member seems to be doing), saw the big delays, had time to think about what I wanted to do with the $1000, etc, and decided to cancel. The fact that gold dropped during that time wasn't part of the equation but doesn't make me feel bad about the decision either
Bohicaman, I can understand bailing due the delivery issue if the RCM failed to meet their published guidelines. But as you said, the pog falling hard made the decision much easier.
I'm not so sure I buy the apples and oranges theory of Morgans vs. the bust of King George. It certainly doesn't apply to gold Libs, Indian heads, or a walking miss Liberty. A lot of people still don't like the Morgan head design. I don't recall it being all that popular in 1970. The additional release of silver dollar bank hoards in the 1970's and later helped to improve the sentiment on Morgan dollars. As scarcer and rarer dates popped out the set actually became mostly completable in choice to gem unc. I didn't trust the govt all that much in the 1960's and 1970's as I culled 90% silver coins from circulation.
Comments
this is the hottest RCM issue in years.....after this is over its back to the usual boring RCM bling which consists of gemstones set into coins and the three bears issue in platinum or something like that....
These are the real thing and if u dont get one now youre gonna pay a premium in the future believe me
when they burn the 200,000 remaining coins then watch how the market reacts to that sin
its a sin to melt 100 year old coins...that is the true screw up which no one is talking about
The premium coins do look pretty good but then you already have a larger premium built into those coins. Anyway good luck to those that are in, time will tell.
..remember that they are listed in MS 63 from 1000 TO 3500 for the $5 and 2500 to 3500 for the $10
so you can downplay it all you want but they are being gobbled up as you speak and pretty soon the marketplace will be the only source of this gold treasure
lol and hold the gold
Though I happened to cancel my order on this one, it was mostly because of the drop in PM prices in combination with the miserable distribution of these pieces than anything else.
I happen to think you are wrong and wonder what drives you to expend so much effort in attempting to discredit this issue?
I happen to like this coin design a lot. In fact, I think it far more attractive than the rare small coins you chase after with such enthusiasm.
Beauty is indeed in the eye of th beholder.
This coin for many is a modest speculative venture with some intereting history and a reasonablly low risk to potential reward ratio.
Why continue to splash cold water on the hopes and dreams of your fellow collecting friends?
Time will tell how this whole thing plays itself out.
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
I do not understand why RO is hating on this so much. There certainly are pros and cons, but I can think of a lot worse numismatic things to buy out there, and I can make very good arguments for owning these.
<< <i>I agree with NWC.
I do not understand why RO is hating on this so much.
And it is not even a Spouse coin.
I think you doth protest too much
You are our consumer advocate then...
Everything in life is a "promotional event" to one degree or another.
This one is fairly low key in comparison to most...
At best, one gets a really nice 100 year old coin that grades well and picks up a nuministic premium.
At worst one is stuck with an Unc 100 year old coin with lots of bag marks and a precious metals holding....
Caveat emptor
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
<< <i>I agree with NWC.
I do not understand why RO is hating on this so much. There certainly are pros and cons, but I can think of a lot worse numismatic things to buy out there, and I can make very good arguments for owning these. >>
+1. I don't see much downside. The design is very cool (IMHO), it's 100 years old, a very limited series issued by our neighboring country in the same size/denominations as our own gold coins from that era, and even with the recent fall in gold prices, there's not much of a markup over melt price.
<< <i>This discussion should be in the dark side, if it were in its rightful place I would have made zero commentart btw. >>
You can stop commenting any time, you know. If people like these and want to buy them, why not let them be?
<< <i> I alaways though that only , having a stock photo and a sellers written description with a no return policy is something that turns our members off. >>
The Canadian's mint's policy (stock photos, no grade guarantee) is very similar to the US Mint and other government mints both currently and historically. The only difference I can see if the lack of a return policy.
<< <i>But when unknown members, ones that just joined come here and start advertising their jump in vlaue or give then accolades without any of the members who bought them letting us know what they llok like I believe that caution needs to be tossed out into the wind for a fair and balanced viewpoint. >>
Oh- I get it now. You're the self-appointed Coin Police and all you're doing it trying to help. Yeah, that's it.
I appreciate the OP posting the thread. I feel that those that want to buy SHOULD buy. I also feel that those that are super enthusiastic are ok, but, I hope it is just their own super-enthusiasm and not someone wanting to hype it (ie...getting some to sell and then trying to drive up the price/demand and sell).
I do realize that some folks that are selling have done so quietly. Maybe state their point and then let it be and go on and just sell. nothing at all wrong with that.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>BTW would you ever call yoursled Mrknowit all?
??? I don't have a sled.
<< <i>without any of the members who bought them letting us know what they llok like >>
Good point; I would also like to see some photos from people on this site who have gotten theirs. However, the photos I've seen elsewhere of specific coins from this Hoard generally look pretty nice.
http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=144
if I dont seem new its because I aint new...im an older guy! tho not quite as old as the Canada Gold Reserve coins
Facts.....did u know that these Gold coins lying around in dusty old mint bags represent 37% of the total mintage but the released coins only represent an increase of 4.5%
when u do the math after they burn the 200K leftovers there will be a net decrease in the mintage of these 3 years of 32.5% that should calm the market
when i get back into camera mode i will take some shots of the several pieces ive already received including the PS 1914 5.00
in the meantime lol and hold the gold
<< <i>
<< <i>without any of the members who bought them letting us know what they llok like >>
Good point; I would also like to see some photos from people on this site who have gotten theirs. However, the photos I've seen elsewhere of specific coins from this Hoard generally look pretty nice. >>
TomB bought some to sell and has a BST listed with photos. I admit, seeing his photos of the coins in the BST almost got me to re-thinking and doing a buy, but my funds are better of elsewhere right now, I don't collect non-US, and I don't like how the Canadian govt is handling these. That all said, go to Tom's BST thread if you want to see some. He takes nice pics and shows the coins well; including in the PCGS holder they are now in.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Consider me a FOX NEWS commentator without the press credintials in fact without any credintials of any kind whatsoever.
Though I can now appreciate where you're coming from a bit better, you're not helping your cause much with this comparison IMO.
NOT a fan of said Network...... Nuff said as I know many here love them.....
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
I suspect most of the cancellations are from greedy americans but you said that not me
do you honestly believe that our poor bumbling RCM has driven the overly bored and broke coin collecting public away from this antique gold release because of a few weeks delay in shipping?
maybe the big dealers conspired to slow things down so they could get their PCGS gold label coins on the market before anyone else
think about it....I betcha Hall and co. are counting on a slow release
and maybe they are paying me to drive up the price of this issue
hmmmm...lol and hold the gold
<< <i>screwed the pooch!..ill have to remember that one
I suspect most of the cancellations are from greedy americans but you said that not me
do you honestly believe that our poor bumbling RCM has driven the overly bored and broke coin collecting public away from this antique gold release because of a few weeks delay in shipping?
maybe the big dealers conspired to slow things down so they could get their PCGS gold label coins on the market before anyone else
think about it....I betcha Hall and co. are counting on a slow release
and maybe they are paying me to drive up the price of this issue
hmmmm...lol and hold the gold >>
I don't mean to sound like a commercial, but these coins are what original, century old, unboinked gold can look like and many (most?) don't have the opportunity to often own or see that level of preservation in US gold. Some folks are really defending these while others are hammering them a bit too hard for their knowledge base, in my opinion. I like them for their artistry, history, numismatics and relatively low premium for bullion. In fact, I have kept a number for myself. Here is one of the reverses for an MS63-
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
On a side note, you may get more interest if you posted your coins in the world BST, no?
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
The best deal is the $20 silver coins for $20. Face value is $20 so it's hard to lose on that one but a limit of 3.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I agree that this thread should have been on the World Forum all along really.... Perhaps a quick link to it here just as a "heads-up" would have been cool.
I still like the coin a lot and would be in if it weren't for Charmy posting that insanely gorgeous 55 DDO and setting my sights on another target
for my next significant aquisition... Just a shift in focus!
"off the rails"..... Yes sir!!!
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
quote from Thomas Bush ebay listing on the 1913 PCGS MS 63 $10.00
a respected American numismatist
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
photo of coin that you won't be receiving!
sight unseen purchase!
no returns allowed!
a dealer's opinion is given as to their general unc condition but not a tpg's opinion!
This could have applied to the 1970's GSA sales as well. How did those turn out for everyone? And you didn't even get a generic photo.
I agree with TomB on this one. Nice, unmessed with early gold at modest premiums to bullion. You pay a stiffer premium for common date MS63 and MS64 Morgan dollars.
Same comment for many MS61-63 generic US gold coins 1900-1932. I don't see anyone out there waving the red flag to protect collectors from these "over-hyped traps."
Interesting that as the gold price tumbled since October, many buyers have became more "altruistic" and stepped aside in order to allow those less fortunate to acquire some.
<< <i>All I am saying is:
photo of coin that you won't be receiving!
sight unseen purchase!
no returns allowed!
a dealer's opinion is given as to their general unc condition but not a tpg's opinion!
This could have applied to the 1970's GSA sales as well. How did those turn out for everyone? And you didn't even get a generic photo.
I agree with TomB on this one. Nice, unmessed with early gold at modest premiums to bullion. You pay a stiffer premium for common date MS63 and MS64 Morgan dollars.
Same comment for many MS61-63 generic US gold coins 1900-1932. I don't see anyone out there waving the red flag to protect collectors from these "over-hyped traps."
Interesting that as the gold price tumbled since October, many buyers have became more "altruistic" and stepped aside in order to allow those less fortunate to acquire some. >>
To be fair, RR, some of us (myself I can speak for
I saw some more hyping going on (similar to what the new member seems to be doing), saw the big delays, had time to think about what I wanted to do with the $1000, etc, and decided to cancel. The fact that gold dropped during that time wasn't part of the equation but doesn't make me feel bad about the decision either
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I'm not so sure I buy the apples and oranges theory of Morgans vs. the bust of King George. It certainly doesn't apply to gold Libs, Indian heads, or a walking miss Liberty. A lot of
people still don't like the Morgan head design. I don't recall it being all that popular in 1970. The additional release of silver dollar bank hoards in the 1970's and later helped to
improve the sentiment on Morgan dollars. As scarcer and rarer dates popped out the set actually became mostly completable in choice to gem unc. I didn't trust the govt all that
much in the 1960's and 1970's as I culled 90% silver coins from circulation.