maybe a permanent sticky at the top with Don's message would be appropriate. Might want to open the field to any auction house that communicates "problems" to the seller concerning a PCGS certified coin.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Thank you, Don. That's a completely stand up thing to do.
As the guy who deliberately attempted to bring this issue (specificially, the act of spiking top-tier slabs arbitrarily) immediately to a head before it gained any real traction, I consider your suggestion to be completely on target.
The point wasn't that I'm important, or that the messages were from important people.
In fact, they're just from people that want to clue me in on a few things.
I just wanted them to know that I wouldn't be posting them, unlike the OP on the other thread.
If I can be frank,
I thought that was a bad idea.
Did you like lasvegasteddys post as much as mine? >>
Stairman- I like everybody and i like everyones post, some i like more than others. Lasvegasteddy is AOK, he sent me a 1000 dollar MPL a few years back with no money up front and no references, and then told me to pay as i felt like. So yes i place him a little higher on the list. I can go with the flow, just look at screen name my wife signed me up as, i know she did that to get even for something i had done that day. I would have perfered "pennyandy".
And yes i agree a p.m. should stay that way, not open reading for all.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>Thank you, Don. That's a completely stand up thing to do.
As the guy who deliberately attempted to bring this issue (specificially, the act of spiking top-tier slabs arbitrarily) immediately to a head before it gained any real traction, I consider your suggestion to be completely on target.
Regards, Rich >>
I don't think it ever would have gained any traction, were it not for the frenzied paranoia of this thread. Lance.
<< <i>Thank you, Don. That's a completely stand up thing to do.
As the guy who deliberately attempted to bring this issue (specificially, the act of spiking top-tier slabs arbitrarily) immediately to a head before it gained any real traction, I consider your suggestion to be completely on target.
Regards, Rich >>
I don't think it ever would have gained any traction, were it not for the frenzied paranoia of this thread. Lance. >>
It could have been more easily resolved, potentially, if the OP had pinged Don and/or David with the info and brought it straight to their attention. Wouldn't have been as likely to get all the chest pumping up that was done in the thread
<<I don't think it ever would have gained any traction, were it not for the frenzied paranoia of this thread.>>
I consider this situation to have been quickly addressed in less than 200 posts over less than 2 days...as compared to other issues that drag on for weeks and months over many hundreds of posts...and go unresolved.
As I've indicated before, calling attention to the outrageous and unjustified [factual] actions and quasi-formal policies of others...in this case eBay and its confederates...wasn't paranoid...it was fact.
Now if some here are uncomfortable with potentially being linked to said outrageous and unjustified actions...then maye they're just being a bit paranoid themselves.
And I hope we'll all be able to look back and ultimately consider this issue an isolated rogue act and not the start of a trend.
<< <i>If anyone has a PCGS graded coin removed by eBay because it is deemed to be a problem coin please contact me with the cert. # and any correspondence from eBay. >>
Makes me think it hasn't happened yet to a true PCGS slab. I think this thread has been a lot of nothing.... >>
It has happened - a seller had 3 auctions cancelled, relisted and cancelled again and told if he tried it again would lose selling priveledges Thread with cancelled auctions
I have no problems with eBay agents on this forum, I rarely see people here boasting of how they committed fraud against eBay, PAYPAL, or eBay buyers / sellers
<< <i>If anyone has a PCGS graded coin removed by eBay because it is deemed to be a problem coin please contact me with the cert. # and any correspondence from eBay. >>
Makes me think it hasn't happened yet to a true PCGS slab. I think this thread has been a lot of nothing.... >>
It has happened - a seller had 3 auctions cancelled, relisted and cancelled again and told if he tried it again would lose selling priveledges Thread with cancelled auctions
I have no problems with eBay agents on this forum, I rarely see people here boasting of how they committed fraud against eBay, PAYPAL, or eBay buyers / sellers >>
I would discount the re-listing and privileges warning issues because the seller chose to re-list without either (a) addressing the warning or (b) getting approval to not address the warning. I think that should be somewhat expected if you get a warning, ignore it, and immediately do the same exact thing again.
Hopefully next time, there will be more discussion before re-listing.
Yes, I think he and ALL sellers on eBay should include the following disclaimer (or something similar)
This coin looks different than it did when it left the mint. I have not followed this coin since minting so do not know how it has been handled, altered, or mistreated since it was struck at the mint. It is now in a recognized slab from a company that certifies coins as authentic and gives their professional opinion on grade - but I did not pick up the coin at their door, so do not know how the coin and slab has been handled, altered, or mistreated since they have certified it. Buy at your own risk, and if you disagree with what you get - send it back to the grading service and collect on their guarantee.
ZIONS if this is not acceptable, could you please write what you feel this seller should add to their listing to keep you happy.
Isn't it true that the policy of these boards is that if you get a warning and continue to do the same thing, your privileges will also be curtailed? I can think of many different situations where ignoring warnings will lead to a loss of privileges.
Posting the same coins again would be violating eBay's policy for the 3rd time on these coins. It would be better to try and find a way to get the coins approved than to continue to violate the policy in the same way IMO.
<< <i>Yes, I think he and ALL sellers on eBay should include the following disclaimer (or something similar) >>
It's not an issue of explaining what you know (or don't know) about a coin. The folks who got these listings killed don't want those coins on eBay at all.
<<On the other thread, the OP stated he was going to relist them and see what happens.>>
Actually, at the time, there was a general opinion by many (if not a majority) on this board, that relisting WAS the thing to do...because eBay couldn't possibly have had the stones to actually delist a legitimately graded coin in an untampered PCGS slab under the guise of buyer protection.
But now, thanks to the extensive discussion of this episode, we now know how and why this absurdity came to occur...and have a process in place independent of pleading with eBay to address it.
<< <i>It has happened - a seller had 3 auctions cancelled, relisted and cancelled again and told if he tried it again would lose selling priveledges >>
So after all this I follow the link and it is for three foreign coins. Isn't this the U.S. Coin Forum?
<< <i> I would discount the re-listing and privileges warning issues because the seller chose to re-list without either (a) addressing the warning or (b) getting approval to not address the warning. I think that should be somewhat expected if you get a warning, ignore it, and immediately do the same exact thing again. >>
I find it interesting, you not being on the eBay coin board and all, that you would know the EXACT words a nuked listing gets from eBay in order to relist it. Further, I find it amazing that you could know that I relisted them without any changes of wording or approvals from eBay?
You are definitely in the Star Chamber of the eBay Committee Elitists.
And who would have told me not to and how do you know they did or didn't tell me not to? I never disclosed anything between my first and second listings.
Committee Member #2 outed (as if none of us didn't know that already...lol).
I actually have everyone's eBay name (and some real names) on the eBay committee...if anyone is interested, PM me and I will send you the list.
They are bad people...the ones who ended my listings arbitrarily, based on their egos and conspiracy theories, that the coins were AT in PCGS Holders. I say Bad People since they didn't care if they were hurting my family, myself, my reputation, etc by blackballing me in such a way. And further, getting PCGS to kill legitimate auctions that cost my family money both in fees and lost income. If I had been doing this for a living and they did this, I would be finding out who they were and traveling to meet each and every one of them to.......shake their hands...
(a) in your re-listings, you disclosed "the coins have been artificially toned, and state what process was used in order to relist the coins" per the email warning you received and posted from eBay? If I missed that in your re-listings, please point them out to me.
(b) you received approval to ignore the warning from eBay when you 'relisted them now...let's see if it was just "mechanical error"'?
Here are some quotes from your posts in reference to the issues you highlighted. Hopefully this should make things a bit more clear.
Your issue #1) that you would know the EXACT words a nuked listing gets from eBay in order to relist it.
Your post quote #1: These coins have been artificially toned the listing failed to disclose this. With regard to the assessment of the listing, as eBay employs no experts in the field of currency we are unable to arbitrate disputes. You will need to disclose that the coins have been artificially toned, and state what process was used in order to relist the coins.
Your issue #2) I find it amazing that you could know that I relisted them without any changes of wording or approvals from eBay?
Your post quote #2) I just relisted them now...let's see if it was just "mechanical error" on eBay's part to end them without looking.
Your issue #3) And who would have told me not to and how do you know they did or didn't tell me not to?
Your post quote #3: See your post quote #1 above.
Your issue #4) I never disclosed anything between my first and second listings.
Here is another thought and observation. Given level of doctoring in the market, I can see how some people may think the following line in your auction descriptions may be misleading:
<< <i>See our other NT Rainbow Toned Coins now! >>
This is based on my understanding that:
(a) our host does not guarantee or make statements on whether a coin is NT (b) your other rainbow toned coins which are non-certified may not appear to be NT to some
You may have an easier time if you described the methods used to achieve the toning for your non-certified coins as some sellers are doing now. Absent that, you may want to reconsider using the "NT" label.
I wish I had the kind of life where this was the biggest problem I had!
Yeah,yeah. I know, I know.
"ebay's taking food out of my baby's mouth"
If you could've sold those $1.50 day-glo monstrosities, (NT or AT) for the $250 you wanted, then your kids aint gonna starve.
You'd be the best snake oil salesman on ebay.You'd be able to sell anything.
Why you could probably find a dead possum in the middle of the road. Spray paint that bad boy up. Come up with a just as colorful description. Sell that pile. And feed your kids.
Stairman. Leader of the Secret Society of Spray Painted Possum Reporters.
(SSPPR)
Members:
Leader: Stairman
Vice leader: Whoever you outed right above me. I didn't really pay attention to who it was.
Second Looey: Your buddy that sent you the message. FRANK-ly the only confirmed member. You gonna out him?
Or is it, "No man. it's cool he's in the SSPPR and on this board 'cause I know the dude."
Why do you make baseless assertions on committee membership while not disclosing the one member you know for sure?
I can understand if you don't want to out someone but not outing someone where you have proof and outing people where you have no proof seems a bit odd.
<< <i>I actually have everyone's eBay name (and some real names) on the eBay committee...if anyone is interested, PM me and I will send you the list. >>
Given that committee members are not allowed to disclose their identities, do you think releasing the membership list, or even offering to do so, might be considered a NARU-level offense?
<< <i>do you think releasing the membership list, or even offering to do so, might be considered a NARU-level offense? >>
Getting NARUed for releasing the membership list of a group that eBay doesn't even publicize the existence of? Is that anything like double-secret probation?
Regardless, I'm not sure I see where non-members have any obligations regarding disclosure (or non-disclosure). How can one be bound by membership rules when one is not a member? If anyone deserves NARUing, it would seem to be the members who allowed their identities to be compromised, if it's indeed true that members are prohibited from disclosing their ids.
<< <i>do you think releasing the membership list, or even offering to do so, might be considered a NARU-level offense? >>
Getting NARUed for releasing the membership list of a group that eBay doesn't even publicize the existence of? Is that anything like double-secret probation?
Regardless, I'm not sure I see where non-members have any obligations regarding disclosure (or non-disclosure). How can one be bound by membership rules when one is not a member? If anyone deserves NARUing, it would seem to be the members who allowed their identities to be compromised, if it's indeed true that members are prohibited from disclosing their ids. >>
As to why someone could be NARUed, the person offering to disclose the membership is an eBay seller and presumably agreed to abide by eBay policies. I don't think it's too far of a stretch to imagine offering to disclose eBay proprietary information as part of the policies.
<< <i>Regardless, I'm not sure I see where non-members have any obligations regarding disclosure (or non-disclosure). How can one be bound by membership rules when one is not a member? >>
Makes sense.
As leader of the SSPPR I would like it known that I give my full consent to uofa1285 to release the name of the one confirmed member on this board.
<< <i>Regardless, I'm not sure I see where non-members have any obligations regarding disclosure (or non-disclosure). How can one be bound by membership rules when one is not a member? >>
Makes sense.
As leader of the SSPPR I would like it known that I give my full consent to uofa1285 to release the name of the one confirmed member on this board.
Ha-rump!
Now we'll see who's being honest. >>
The coin board or the possum board? Or are they one and the same?
Well done, uofa1285. Now we know. And obviously there is no reason not to name the individual as well. If hiding is the strength of his/her position they shouldn't have a position in the first place. This all smacks of the tactics of the Gestapo.
No seller can determine the provenance of a coin unless he/she has altered it themselves. So the actions of this so-called committee on eBay is based upon uninformed supposition and influenced by personal motivations not factual ones.
This is the first I've heard of this and I'm aghast that it is occurring. An actual lynch mob with eBay's blessing.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>The coin board or the possum board? Or are they one and the same? >>
Well given the extreme intrerest(and tone) that Stairman seems to take in this discussion; joined in 4/11 with only 46 posts many of those in this thread alone; seems to suggest that he has a dog in this fight.
"It's eBay's site and they can allow or not allow any auction they want. However for eBay to remove a PCGS (or NGC) graded coin because of some amateur grader's opinion demonstrates a real lack of knowledge on their part. Some people always like to second guess the grading services. We welcome any new competition who wants to offer the same service and same guarantee that we do."
Well said Don and it should be the last word on this. Time to put this eBay committee's "work" under the light of day.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>The coin board or the possum board? Or are they one and the same? >>
Well given the extreme intrerest(and tone) that Stairman seems to take in this discussion; joined in 4/11 with only 46 posts many of those in this thread alone; seems to suggest that he has a dog in this fight. >>
Again, first I've seen or heard of this was one hour ago upon reading this thread, but that obvious implication jumped out at me immediately.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Oh, and on that other thread that is referenced about uofa1285's three PCGS coins being pulled by the committee, they had all been previously auctioned on eBay by another seller, apparently with no problem.
This is opinion based group whose actions seem to be based on bias, not fact.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>Oh, and on that other thread that is referenced about uofa1285's three PCGS coins being pulled by the committee, they had all been previously auctioned on eBay by another seller, apparently with no problem.
This is opinion based group whose actions seem to be based on bias, not fact. >>
I don't think that is a valid conclusion from the prior sales because:
(a) from my understanding, the committee only rules on coins that are identified by others. Were the previous auctions brought to the attention of the committee?
(b) opinions can change over time. Even professional graders at top TPGs can change their opinion as the actions of doctors are brought to light over time.
<< <i>I don't think that is a valid conclusion from their being sold before because:
(a) from my understanding, the committee only rules on coins that are identified by others. Were the previous auctions brought to the attention of the committee?. >>
First only the committee could know if the coins when sold the first time were reported so your question is pointless, but your observation serves to point out the fact that someone on the committee appears to have an axe to grind with uofa1285.
<< <i>I don't think that is a valid conclusion from their being sold before because:
(a) from my understanding, the committee only rules on coins that are identified by others. Were the previous auctions brought to the attention of the committee?. >>
First only the committee could know if the coins when sold the first time were reported so your question is pointless >>
That doesn't necessarily hold true. If only the committee members know if the coins were reported the first time, it would be erroneous for a non-committee member to say a prior sales means bias this time around. It's that conclusion that would be baseless.
<< <i>your observation serves to point out the fact that someone on the committee appears to have an axe to grind with uofa1285. >>
I'm not sure how my observation points that out. I did note that in one case, someone appeared to be upset uofa1285 disregarded the warning and re-listed the coins without making the required auction modifications.
It started when I posted 1 reply on the other thread, and the paint by number clique started attacking me.
"This is your 3rd post and you joined a year ago. Burn him at the stake"
My 4th post probably would've been another year from now.
But I do enjoy havin' fun!
So yeah, I'm hangin' out here.
What jumped out at me was,
"There are unknown spies on this board. Who are they? Who could it be? Are you cool with not knowing?"
And all the time they know who sent uofa1285 the message.
They know who it is.
THAT didn't jump out at you? >>
Deflection at its best
Eddited to add: I have no dog in this action but I find it hard to beleive that you and zions(given both the level of interest and effort) are only on this thread to stir the pot; I doubt that I'm alone in that assumtion.
<< <i>If anyone has PCGS certified coins rejected by eBay, or any other site for that matter, please send them to my attention at PCGS.
We will either confirm our grade or we will buy the coins back.
Just like we have for the past 26 years. >>
Good to see you keeping up with this, Don. Bottom line, it's an attack on the integrity of PCGS. Obviously mistakes can happen but to the extent implied by the existence of this committee? And is this the proper means to address the issue even if it was as serious as the committee's existence implies?
eBay's been buffaloed by a group that seems to have carte blanche without having provided credentials and whose oversight sounds near to non-existent.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
I was born a poor black child in the slums of Tuxedo Park, NY. It was so bad, I remember not having caviar for our omelettes one day.
Turn ons: Long sunset walks with a special half cent
Turn offs: Count Chocula and spray paint
Favorite food: Peanutbutter and tuna sandwiches. With just a dab of horseradish.
Favorite movie: Ishtar
Favorite book: To Tame a Land
Best idea shunned by others: Detonate a nuclear weapon inside a hurricane to stop it.(They told me the death toll would be 10 times higher initially and up to 100 times higher over time. Gimme a break. We have to nuke the hurricane, to find out what's in the hurricane)
As a note, eBay has stated the CCW group "is a joint effort between a team of numismatic experts, the American Numismatic Association (ANA), and eBay." It has also included professional graders with experience grading at top TPGs on its membership. It may be worthwhile for top TPGs to work with eBay more directly on this program.
<< <i>If anyone has PCGS certified coins rejected by eBay, or any other site for that matter, please send them to my attention at PCGS.
We will either confirm our grade or we will buy the coins back.
Just like we have for the past 26 years. >>
Good to see you keeping up with this, Don. Bottom line, it's an attack on the integrity of PCGS. Obviously mistakes can happen but to the extent implied by the existence of this committee? And is this the proper means to address the issue even if it was as serious as the committee's existence implies?
eBay's been buffaloed by a group that seems to have carte blanche without having provided credentials and whose oversight sounds near to non-existent. >>
I don't see it as an attack on PCGS at all and think thats a bit OTT. PCGS coins are bought and listed everyday on the bay , no problems.This seems to be an exeption and looking at the coins one can see the concerns.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Comments
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
As the guy who deliberately attempted to bring this issue (specificially, the act of spiking top-tier slabs arbitrarily) immediately to a head before it gained any real traction, I consider your suggestion to be completely on target.
Regards, Rich
I'm glad you liked that one.
The point wasn't that I'm important, or that the messages were from important people.
In fact, they're just from people that want to clue me in on a few things.
I just wanted them to know that I wouldn't be posting them, unlike the OP on the other thread.
If I can be frank,
I thought that was a bad idea.
Did you like lasvegasteddys post as much as mine?
<< <i>Hi pennyannie,
I'm glad you liked that one.
The point wasn't that I'm important, or that the messages were from important people.
In fact, they're just from people that want to clue me in on a few things.
I just wanted them to know that I wouldn't be posting them, unlike the OP on the other thread.
If I can be frank,
I thought that was a bad idea.
Did you like lasvegasteddys post as much as mine? >>
Stairman- I like everybody and i like everyones post, some i like more than others. Lasvegasteddy is AOK, he sent me a 1000 dollar MPL a few years back with no money up front and no references, and then told me to pay as i felt like. So yes i place him a little higher on the list.
And yes i agree a p.m. should stay that way, not open reading for all.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
I'd love to have a coin like that sent my way.
<< <i>Thank you, Don. That's a completely stand up thing to do.
As the guy who deliberately attempted to bring this issue (specificially, the act of spiking top-tier slabs arbitrarily) immediately to a head before it gained any real traction, I consider your suggestion to be completely on target.
Regards, Rich >>
I don't think it ever would have gained any traction, were it not for the frenzied paranoia of this thread.
Lance.
<< <i>I don't think it ever would have gained any traction, were it not for the frenzied paranoia of this thread. Lance. >>
I concur.
<< <i>
<< <i>Thank you, Don. That's a completely stand up thing to do.
As the guy who deliberately attempted to bring this issue (specificially, the act of spiking top-tier slabs arbitrarily) immediately to a head before it gained any real traction, I consider your suggestion to be completely on target.
Regards, Rich >>
I don't think it ever would have gained any traction, were it not for the frenzied paranoia of this thread.
Lance. >>
It could have been more easily resolved, potentially, if the OP had pinged Don and/or David with the info and brought it straight to their attention.
Wouldn't have been as likely to get all the chest pumping up that was done in the thread
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>do they meet in a dark candle lit room in underwear and rub secret oils on them while paddling new members to this secret group??? >>
I love that about you teddy. >>
Do you two meet often??
I consider this situation to have been quickly addressed in less than 200 posts over less than 2 days...as compared to other issues that drag on for weeks and months over many hundreds of posts...and go unresolved.
As I've indicated before, calling attention to the outrageous and unjustified [factual] actions and quasi-formal policies of others...in this case eBay and its confederates...wasn't paranoid...it was fact.
Now if some here are uncomfortable with potentially being linked to said outrageous and unjustified actions...then maye they're just being a bit paranoid themselves.
And I hope we'll all be able to look back and ultimately consider this issue an isolated rogue act and not the start of a trend.
<< <i>
<< <i>If anyone has a PCGS graded coin removed by eBay because it is deemed to be a problem coin please contact me with the cert. # and any correspondence from eBay. >>
Makes me think it hasn't happened yet to a true PCGS slab. I think this thread has been a lot of nothing.... >>
It has happened - a seller had 3 auctions cancelled, relisted and cancelled again and told if he tried it again would lose selling priveledges
Thread with cancelled auctions
I have no problems with eBay agents on this forum,
I rarely see people here boasting of how they committed fraud against eBay, PAYPAL, or eBay buyers / sellers
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If anyone has a PCGS graded coin removed by eBay because it is deemed to be a problem coin please contact me with the cert. # and any correspondence from eBay. >>
Makes me think it hasn't happened yet to a true PCGS slab. I think this thread has been a lot of nothing.... >>
It has happened - a seller had 3 auctions cancelled, relisted and cancelled again and told if he tried it again would lose selling priveledges
Thread with cancelled auctions
I have no problems with eBay agents on this forum,
I rarely see people here boasting of how they committed fraud against eBay, PAYPAL, or eBay buyers / sellers >>
I would discount the re-listing and privileges warning issues because the seller chose to re-list without either (a) addressing the warning or (b) getting approval to not address the warning. I think that should be somewhat expected if you get a warning, ignore it, and immediately do the same exact thing again.
Hopefully next time, there will be more discussion before re-listing.
This coin looks different than it did when it left the mint. I have not followed this coin since minting so do not know how it has been handled, altered, or mistreated since it was struck at the mint. It is now in a recognized slab from a company that certifies coins as authentic and gives their professional opinion on grade - but I did not pick up the coin at their door, so do not know how the coin and slab has been handled, altered, or mistreated since they have certified it. Buy at your own risk, and if you disagree with what you get - send it back to the grading service and collect on their guarantee.
ZIONS if this is not acceptable, could you please write what you feel this seller should add to their listing to keep you happy.
Posting the same coins again would be violating eBay's policy for the 3rd time on these coins. It would be better to try and find a way to get the coins approved than to continue to violate the policy in the same way IMO.
<< <i>Yes, I think he and ALL sellers on eBay should include the following disclaimer (or something similar) >>
It's not an issue of explaining what you know (or don't know) about a coin. The folks who got these listings killed don't want those coins on eBay at all.
On the other thread, the OP stated he was going to relist them and see what happens.
Then he's surprised when something happens?
Whether the original listing should've been pulled or not is one thing.
Re-listing when told not to is another.
That was the reason for the NARU threat.
Does anybody know a good Cone of Silence repair man?
Ours has never worked properly, and I really dig using it.
Let me know.
Actually, at the time, there was a general opinion by many (if not a majority) on this board, that relisting WAS the thing to do...because eBay couldn't possibly have had the stones to actually delist a legitimately graded coin in an untampered PCGS slab under the guise of buyer protection.
But now, thanks to the extensive discussion of this episode, we now know how and why this absurdity came to occur...and have a process in place independent of pleading with eBay to address it.
<< <i>It has happened - a seller had 3 auctions cancelled, relisted and cancelled again and told if he tried it again would lose selling priveledges >>
So after all this I follow the link and it is for three foreign coins. Isn't this the U.S. Coin Forum?
And as you now know, those opinions were wrong.
<< <i>
I would discount the re-listing and privileges warning issues because the seller chose to re-list without either (a) addressing the warning or (b) getting approval to not address the warning. I think that should be somewhat expected if you get a warning, ignore it, and immediately do the same exact thing again.
>>
I find it interesting, you not being on the eBay coin board and all, that you would know the EXACT words a nuked listing gets from eBay in order to relist it. Further, I find it amazing that you could know that I relisted them without any changes of wording or approvals from eBay?
You are definitely in the Star Chamber of the eBay Committee Elitists.
<< <i>I agree with zoins,
Re-listing when told not to is another.
>>
And who would have told me not to and how do you know they did or didn't tell me not to? I never disclosed anything between my first and second listings.
Committee Member #2 outed (as if none of us didn't know that already...lol).
I actually have everyone's eBay name (and some real names) on the eBay committee...if anyone is interested, PM me and I will send you the list.
They are bad people...the ones who ended my listings arbitrarily, based on their egos and conspiracy theories, that the coins were AT in PCGS Holders. I say Bad People since they didn't care if they were hurting my family, myself, my reputation, etc by blackballing me in such a way. And further, getting PCGS to kill legitimate auctions that cost my family money both in fees and lost income. If I had been doing this for a living and they did this, I would be finding out who they were and traveling to meet each and every one of them to.......shake their hands...
(a) in your re-listings, you disclosed "the coins have been artificially toned, and state what process was used in order to relist the coins" per the email warning you received and posted from eBay? If I missed that in your re-listings, please point them out to me.
(b) you received approval to ignore the warning from eBay when you 'relisted them now...let's see if it was just "mechanical error"'?
Here are some quotes from your posts in reference to the issues you highlighted. Hopefully this should make things a bit more clear.
Your issue #1) that you would know the EXACT words a nuked listing gets from eBay in order to relist it.
Your post quote #1: These coins have been artificially toned the listing failed to disclose this. With regard to the assessment of the listing, as eBay employs no experts in the field of currency we are unable to arbitrate disputes. You will need to disclose that the coins have been artificially toned, and state what process was used in order to relist the coins.
Your issue #2) I find it amazing that you could know that I relisted them without any changes of wording or approvals from eBay?
Your post quote #2) I just relisted them now...let's see if it was just "mechanical error" on eBay's part to end them without looking.
Your issue #3) And who would have told me not to and how do you know they did or didn't tell me not to?
Your post quote #3: See your post quote #1 above.
Your issue #4) I never disclosed anything between my first and second listings.
Your post quote #4) See your post quote #2 above.
<< <i>See our other NT Rainbow Toned Coins now! >>
This is based on my understanding that:
(a) our host does not guarantee or make statements on whether a coin is NT
(b) your other rainbow toned coins which are non-certified may not appear to be NT to some
You may have an easier time if you described the methods used to achieve the toning for your non-certified coins as some sellers are doing now. Absent that, you may want to reconsider using the "NT" label.
You are a little slow, aint ya?
All this uproar over nothing.
I wish I had the kind of life where this was the biggest problem I had!
Yeah,yeah. I know, I know.
"ebay's taking food out of my baby's mouth"
If you could've sold those $1.50 day-glo monstrosities, (NT or AT) for the $250 you wanted, then your kids aint gonna starve.
You'd be the best snake oil salesman on ebay.You'd be able to sell anything.
Why you could probably find a dead possum in the middle of the road. Spray paint that bad boy up. Come up with a just as colorful description. Sell that pile. And
feed your kids.
Stairman.
Leader of the Secret Society of Spray Painted Possum Reporters.
(SSPPR)
Members:
Leader:
Stairman
Vice leader:
Whoever you outed right above me. I didn't really pay attention to who it was.
Second Looey:
Your buddy that sent you the message. FRANK-ly the only confirmed member.
You gonna out him?
Or is it, "No man. it's cool he's in the SSPPR and on this board 'cause I know the dude."
AND THAT"S WHY THIS THREAD IS SO STUPID.
Well, one of the reasons.
Buh-bye.
Why do you make baseless assertions on committee membership while not disclosing the one member you know for sure?
I can understand if you don't want to out someone but not outing someone where you have proof and outing people where you have no proof seems a bit odd.
<< <i>I actually have everyone's eBay name (and some real names) on the eBay committee...if anyone is interested, PM me and I will send you the list. >>
Given that committee members are not allowed to disclose their identities, do you think releasing the membership list, or even offering to do so, might be considered a NARU-level offense?
<< <i>do you think releasing the membership list, or even offering to do so, might be considered a NARU-level offense? >>
Getting NARUed for releasing the membership list of a group that eBay doesn't even publicize the existence of? Is that anything like double-secret probation?
Regardless, I'm not sure I see where non-members have any obligations regarding disclosure (or non-disclosure). How can one be bound by membership rules when one is not a member? If anyone deserves NARUing, it would seem to be the members who allowed their identities to be compromised, if it's indeed true that members are prohibited from disclosing their ids.
<< <i>
<< <i>do you think releasing the membership list, or even offering to do so, might be considered a NARU-level offense? >>
Getting NARUed for releasing the membership list of a group that eBay doesn't even publicize the existence of? Is that anything like double-secret probation?
Regardless, I'm not sure I see where non-members have any obligations regarding disclosure (or non-disclosure). How can one be bound by membership rules when one is not a member? If anyone deserves NARUing, it would seem to be the members who allowed their identities to be compromised, if it's indeed true that members are prohibited from disclosing their ids. >>
Why do you think eBay doesn't publish existence of the Coins Community Watch group? eBay mentions Community Watch on their main Coins & Paper Money Discussion Board page and has had public discussions about it as far back as 2004.
As to why someone could be NARUed, the person offering to disclose the membership is an eBay seller and presumably agreed to abide by eBay policies. I don't think it's too far of a stretch to imagine offering to disclose eBay proprietary information as part of the policies.
<< <i>Regardless, I'm not sure I see where non-members have any obligations regarding disclosure (or non-disclosure). How can one be bound by membership rules when one is not a member? >>
Makes sense.
As leader of the SSPPR I would like it known that I give my full consent to uofa1285 to release the name of the one confirmed member on this board.
Ha-rump!
Now we'll see who's being honest.
<< <i>
<< <i>Regardless, I'm not sure I see where non-members have any obligations regarding disclosure (or non-disclosure). How can one be bound by membership rules when one is not a member? >>
Makes sense.
As leader of the SSPPR I would like it known that I give my full consent to uofa1285 to release the name of the one confirmed member on this board.
Ha-rump!
Now we'll see who's being honest. >>
The coin board or the possum board? Or are they one and the same?
No seller can determine the provenance of a coin unless he/she has altered it themselves. So the actions of this so-called committee on eBay is based upon uninformed supposition and influenced by personal motivations not factual ones.
This is the first I've heard of this and I'm aghast that it is occurring. An actual lynch mob with eBay's blessing.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>The coin board or the possum board? Or are they one and the same? >>
Well,
On this bizzaro world thread I would say most definitely....
I'm not sure
<< <i>The coin board or the possum board? Or are they one and the same?
Well given the extreme intrerest(and tone) that Stairman seems to take in this discussion; joined in 4/11 with only 46 posts many of those in this thread alone; seems to suggest that he has a dog in this fight.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Well said Don and it should be the last word on this. Time to put this eBay committee's "work" under the light of day.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>
<< <i>The coin board or the possum board? Or are they one and the same?
Well given the extreme intrerest(and tone) that Stairman seems to take in this discussion; joined in 4/11 with only 46 posts many of those in this thread alone; seems to suggest that he has a dog in this fight. >>
Again, first I've seen or heard of this was one hour ago upon reading this thread, but that obvious implication jumped out at me immediately.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
This is opinion based group whose actions seem to be based on bias, not fact.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>Oh, and on that other thread that is referenced about uofa1285's three PCGS coins being pulled by the committee, they had all been previously auctioned on eBay by another seller, apparently with no problem.
This is opinion based group whose actions seem to be based on bias, not fact. >>
I don't think that is a valid conclusion from the prior sales because:
(a) from my understanding, the committee only rules on coins that are identified by others. Were the previous auctions brought to the attention of the committee?
(b) opinions can change over time. Even professional graders at top TPGs can change their opinion as the actions of doctors are brought to light over time.
It started when I posted 1 reply on the other thread, and the paint by number clique started attacking me.
"This is your 3rd post and you joined a year ago. Burn him at the stake"
My 4th post probably would've been another year from now.
But I do enjoy havin' fun!
So yeah, I'm hangin' out here.
What jumped out at me was,
"There are unknown spies on this board. Who are they? Who could it be? Are you cool with not knowing?"
And all the time they know who sent uofa1285 the message.
They know who it is.
THAT didn't jump out at you?
<< <i>I don't think that is a valid conclusion from their being sold before because:
(a) from my understanding, the committee only rules on coins that are identified by others. Were the previous auctions brought to the attention of the committee?. >>
First only the committee could know if the coins when sold the first time were reported so your question is pointless, but your observation serves to point out the fact that someone on the committee appears to have an axe to grind with uofa1285.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
We will either confirm our grade or we will buy the coins back.
Just like we have for the past 26 years.
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't think that is a valid conclusion from their being sold before because:
(a) from my understanding, the committee only rules on coins that are identified by others. Were the previous auctions brought to the attention of the committee?. >>
First only the committee could know if the coins when sold the first time were reported so your question is pointless >>
That doesn't necessarily hold true. If only the committee members know if the coins were reported the first time, it would be erroneous for a non-committee member to say a prior sales means bias this time around. It's that conclusion that would be baseless.
<< <i>your observation serves to point out the fact that someone on the committee appears to have an axe to grind with uofa1285. >>
I'm not sure how my observation points that out. I did note that in one case, someone appeared to be upset uofa1285 disregarded the warning and re-listed the coins without making the required auction modifications.
<< <i>Of course I have a dog in this fight.
It started when I posted 1 reply on the other thread, and the paint by number clique started attacking me.
"This is your 3rd post and you joined a year ago. Burn him at the stake"
My 4th post probably would've been another year from now.
But I do enjoy havin' fun!
So yeah, I'm hangin' out here.
What jumped out at me was,
"There are unknown spies on this board. Who are they? Who could it be? Are you cool with not knowing?"
And all the time they know who sent uofa1285 the message.
They know who it is.
THAT didn't jump out at you? >>
Deflection at its best
Eddited to add: I have no dog in this action but I find it hard to beleive that you and zions(given both the level of interest and effort) are only on this thread to stir the pot; I doubt that I'm alone in that assumtion.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
<< <i>If anyone has PCGS certified coins rejected by eBay, or any other site for that matter, please send them to my attention at PCGS.
We will either confirm our grade or we will buy the coins back.
Just like we have for the past 26 years. >>
Good to see you keeping up with this, Don. Bottom line, it's an attack on the integrity of PCGS. Obviously mistakes can happen but to the extent implied by the existence of this committee? And is this the proper means to address the issue even if it was as serious as the committee's existence implies?
eBay's been buffaloed by a group that seems to have carte blanche without having provided credentials and whose oversight sounds near to non-existent.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
I was born a poor black child in the slums of Tuxedo Park, NY.
It was so bad, I remember not having caviar for our omelettes one day.
Turn ons:
Long sunset walks with a special half cent
Turn offs:
Count Chocula and spray paint
Favorite food:
Peanutbutter and tuna sandwiches. With just a dab of horseradish.
Favorite movie:
Ishtar
Favorite book:
To Tame a Land
Best idea shunned by others:
Detonate a nuclear weapon inside a hurricane to stop it.(They told me the death toll would be 10 times higher initially and up to 100 times higher over time. Gimme a break. We have to nuke the hurricane, to find out what's in the hurricane)
Secret phobia:
Mary Poppins
There it is.
Stairman in a nut shell
or a nut house, I'm not sure
<< <i>
<< <i>If anyone has PCGS certified coins rejected by eBay, or any other site for that matter, please send them to my attention at PCGS.
We will either confirm our grade or we will buy the coins back.
Just like we have for the past 26 years. >>
Good to see you keeping up with this, Don. Bottom line, it's an attack on the integrity of PCGS. Obviously mistakes can happen but to the extent implied by the existence of this committee? And is this the proper means to address the issue even if it was as serious as the committee's existence implies?
eBay's been buffaloed by a group that seems to have carte blanche without having provided credentials and whose oversight sounds near to non-existent. >>
I don't see it as an attack on PCGS at all and think thats a bit OTT. PCGS coins are bought and listed everyday on the bay , no problems.This seems to be an exeption and looking at the coins one can see the concerns.
<< <i>If anyone has PCGS certified coins rejected by eBay, or any other site for that matter, please send them to my attention at PCGS.
We will either confirm our grade or we will buy the coins back.
Just like we have for the past 26 years. >>
You guys should stop your bickering and just focus on what Don has stated above!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......