<<Which also means the number of cancelled auctions outside the forum could just as well be 0. >>
Although that is unknowable, the law of large numbers would say that the odds are definitely against it. If all eBay transactions executed by members of this board even equaled 1% of total US coin sales on the site (which is probably very generous), it would be more likely that auctions involving 100 legit slabs have been canned. But since the committee isn't screening all sales all the time (unless a computer program is being used by eBay to pre-screen for "highly suspect" terminology), the actual numbers are just unknowable at this time. But maybe if eBay decided to shed any/some light on this process, we might have more info to go on.
And this recent thread perfectly highlights why attempting to reject a slabbed coin based only on pictures is just plain impossible (and wrong). What happens if one of those who quessed AT here is a member of eBay's coin committee? Will it get kicked when it's offered for sale?
I wasn't goin to post here, but now I can't seem to stop myself. Everyday I read from this forum, and everyday there is a post where someone vents about how ebay screwed them out of this or that. Ebay is refered to as "e-scam, e-screw, e-whatever." In this thread alone we've heard lannguage such as "secret society, spys, agents, police, power screwer ( a dig at power seller status I believe)" ad nauseum. Frankly it means nothing to me as I don't sell or buy from ebay. My question is this. With all the animosity directed at ebay, why do you still want to sell there? It's their field, their ball, their rules. They want to kick out ANACS, well that's their right. They want to create a group of "experts" to troll listings and have them removed. Guess what, it's their right.
Instead of this thread, why not build your own auction site for coins, and list to your hearts content. Gather a group of core sellers, pool money, and establish yourself as one of the premire coin auction destinations, or go to the BST, Great Collections, teletrade, HA, Stack's, etc.
This is not a diagloue, you would need an ebay representative posting here for this to be a dialogue.
The three options I see are that you could again establish a coalition of sellers, try and get industry backing, and approach ebay. Or get your own site and set your own rules. Or go home and do nothing.
If it's ruining your bottom line so badly do something.
--There is no crying in baseball or coin collecting
1) I like the idea of a group of folks to help "police" problems....ie, easy to identify fakes, fake slabs, etc. I do NOT like when busybody vigilantes stick their noses in and get auctions posed because they don't like a picture and they make exacting claims about a coin from them (unless the picture is so noticeably oversaturated/altered). Ebay needs to get people with brains and get them involved. Folks like Mark Feld.
2) I love how some personalities come out on the forum....people that hide their identities. People that maybe haven't even met anyone else on the forum or let them know they met. People that come in here and make very bold claims and/or come in all blustery. Makes for some fun trolling to watch
At the end of the day, I would hope that PCGS (and NGC) would have reps working with Ebay and a way for auctions to be looked at before they are taken down. Unless, of course, that becomes too time consuming. If it is a small number, and ebay would know, then it would be cool to have the TPGS give a comment to ebay before it is pulled (ie....yes, that definitely looks like it was AT'ed after holdered....or, yes, that is from a group of slabs we know were worked on and submitted and now the work is going bad....etc).
<< <i>I wasn't goin to post here, but now I can't seem to stop myself. Everyday I read from this forum, and everyday there is a post where someone vents about how ebay screwed them out of this or that. Ebay is refered to as "e-scam, e-screw, e-whatever." In this thread alone we've heard lannguage such as "secret society, spys, agents, police, power screwer ( a dig at power seller status I believe)" ad nauseum. Frankly it means nothing to me as I don't sell or buy from ebay. My question is this. With all the animosity directed at ebay, why do you still want to sell there? It's their field, their ball, their rules. They want to kick out ANACS, well that's their right. They want to create a group of "experts" to troll listings and have them removed. Guess what, it's their right.
Instead of this thread, why not build your own auction site for coins, and list to your hearts content. Gather a group of core sellers, pool money, and establish yourself as one of the premire coin auction destinations, or go to the BST, Great Collections, teletrade, HA, Stack's, etc.
This is not a diagloue, you would need an ebay representative posting here for this to be a dialogue.
The three options I see are that you could again establish a coalition of sellers, try and get industry backing, and approach ebay. Or get your own site and set your own rules. Or go home and do nothing.
If it's ruining your bottom line so badly do something.
--There is no crying in baseball or coin collecting >>
Some on these boards aren't happy unless they have something to complain about. Much like the real world you can't please some people no matter what you do. eBay is a vibrant and valuable venue to many in the hobby. The whiners on these boards do not speak for the vast majority of eBay sellers. They still get the most eyeballs on coin auctions and are cheap compared to several other venues who continue to raise their prices.
Here an idea maybe they need a way on eBay that you pre-submit your images and get a digital sticker attached saying it's OK to list your coin. Kind of like CAC but all online.
<< <i>Here an idea maybe they need a way on eBay that you pre-submit your images and get a digital sticker attached saying it's OK to list your coin. Kind of like CAC but all online.
I wondered yesterday how soon it would be before support for shutting down "obviously AT'd coin" auctions would lead to support for shutting down "obviously overpriced coin" auctions.
<<Here an idea maybe they need a way on eBay that you pre-submit your images and get a digital sticker attached saying it's OK to list your coin. Kind of like CAC but all online.>>
Careful with these types of remarks...it would appear that the walls now have ears!
<< <i><<Here an idea maybe they need a way on eBay that you pre-submit your images and get a digital sticker attached saying it's OK to list your coin. Kind of like CAC but all online.>>
Careful with these types of remarks...it would appear that the walls now have ears!
>>
Actually, that suggestion isn't good enough. How does eBay know you even have the coin?
The only way to insure a safe marketplace is for buyers to send their coins to eBay, where eBay will photograph and write the descriptions themselves. Or, more likely, hire out the work to anonymous helpers. But don't worry... you can trust that your coins will be safe because these anonymous helper people have been thouroughly screened by- well, you don't really need to know about how that works.
This system has the added benefit of preventing sellers from misdescribing the coins they sell, as the anonymous helper people will certainly be able to be more objective about this than the coins' owners. Aside from minor details like calling SA proof set toned coins "AT" (nobody can be expected to know everything so we'll just let this sort of stuff slide), what could go wrong?
The simple solution is for ebay to have paypal hold all funds on questionable item sales until the buyer provides positive feedback. Nuking questionable listings is done to protect ebay/paypal from potential, costly claims. Let the buyer determine that the item is as described.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
I received this from Mark Feld with his expressed interest to share his experience and add some light to the subject. Copy and pasted in it's entirety from the e-mail he sent me. MJ
Years ago, I was on the committee for a short time. There was no direct or indirect compensation or perks of any kind for me. We received reports from Ebay members and acted (or chose not to act) upon them, depending upon the specific circumstances. I was aware of no agendas among group members, other than removing fraudulent listings and/or those which were in obvious violation of stated Ebay policy.
While I deplore what the individual allegedly did with respect to the PCGS listings that were removed recently, I seriously doubt that such actions will be tolerated for very long. And I see, what appears to be a gross overreaction among a few individuals.
MF
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>If you start to see lots of PCGS coin auctions nuked then you have cause for concern. All this over one instance when the group has been around for years makes no sense.
If we don't know why the auctions were nuked and we are hearing one side of the story why are so many conclusions being jumped in to? I don't know that seller or his sales history. Something may have happened that caused those items to be taken down that we do not know about. >>
One instance that has come to light, how many have gone under the radar?? Perhaps none but it is foolish to assume that this is the one and only incident where a listing has been pulled in this manor. The op is correct this is a very slippery slope that appears to be mismanaged baised on the availible information; like you I'd like to hear both sides of the story but if one side says silent that will be difficult. >>
We only KNOW of one instance, and that is because I belong to these boards. If this group has been involved for years on eBay, who knows how many non-PCGS board member eBay sellers have gotten their listings nixed and/or their accounts bammed. My example could me one of hundreds...think bigger picture please.
To all of you that cavalierly say, "oh, it's for the overall good and/or one incident doesn't matter"...that's because it wasn't YOU!
Try telling that to your family if your livelivhood depended on your eBay sales...I believe it would not provide them much solace and would definitely not make the house payment for them.
I received this from Mark Feld with his expressed interest to share his experience and add some light to the subject. Copy and pasted in it's entirety from the e-mail he sent me. MJ
Years ago, I was on the committee for a short time. There was no direct or indirect compensation or perks of any kind for me. We received reports from Ebay members and acted (or chose not to act) upon them, depending upon the specific circumstances. I was aware of no agendas among group members, other than removing fraudulent listings and/or those which were in obvious violation of stated Ebay policy.
While I deplore what the individual allegedly did with respect to the PCGS listings that were removed recently, I seriously doubt that such actions will be tolerated for very long. And I see, what appears to be a gross overreaction among a few individuals.
MF >>
Always happy to hear from Mark. Still sad he's not around. I couldn't agree more with his sentiment.
Today, things are different. The CCW (Coin Community Watch) or CWG (the generic Community Watch Group) does not receive reports from ebay members. They initiate them. Only ebay support staff acts on reports, wherever their source, and chooses to kill auctions, wait for more corroborative reports, or ignore them.
Those from CWG members are deemed credible. Those from the general community require further input and review.
It's not a perfect system by any means. But it's better than an unmoderated free for all. Let's hope it improves. Lance.
<< <i>Today, things are different. The CCW (Coin Community Watch) or CWG (the generic Community Watch Group) does not receive reports from ebay members. >>
Actually, this link is to report coin listings to the CCW.
Derry B.......What is to prevent another scammer buyer from withholding feedback knowing that the coin he-she purchased could be called questionable if they alert e-bay............Buyers already hold the upper hand (and in most cases they should)..........But the buyer is always right is not the situation here...............These listings were nuked.............not once but twice..............Because some committee decided they were not legit.............a committee that stays secret and their findings are final...........I find that quite disturbing..................But lets go back for a minute...........SUPPOSE..........you or I sell a coin on e-bay and some scammer buyer waits until the coin has shipped..........they then alert e-bay as to the potential of some kind of problem............NOW you have put the seller into a postion of having to DEFEND his or her sale of said coin.............In the mean time the coin gets delivered and as in past history the committee (or e-bay) side with the buyer (mostly they do).............now the seller will not get paid............UNLESS he or she can provide definitive proof of the coin being legit.................I do not think anyone (you or me and others) want to put themselves in that position................unless I don't see the whole picture..............IMO
<< <i>Today, things are different. The CCW (Coin Community Watch) or CWG (the generic Community Watch Group) does not receive reports from ebay members. >>
Actually, this link is to report coin listings to the CCW.
The link sends the report to an ebay specialist who will consult the group if further guidance is necessary. Not all reports involve the CCW, only the ones that ebay decides to send to them. Here is a reply on my latest report of a counterfeit coin:
"Thanks for reporting this listing to us. I sent your report to our Coin Community Watch group for their review and they agreed with your assessment. As a result, I removed the listing. Sincerely, Judith eBay Customer Support."
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
someone emailed me with a list of this groups members....please no pm's or asking for this list as i refuse to add energy to a cause like this i just found it strange in a way
everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see
At the end of the day this whole thread reads like a ladies sewing room circle. My apologies to the ladies and to the seeing machines. Good grief. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Dude, you can't receive PM's unless your PM function is turned on. Unless of course you don't want private messages from board members here. I don't blame you if you didn't. I have half the board blocked myself
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
You jumped to a conclusion. I wanted to send you a PM. You are new here and I thought maybe you didn't know how it worked. The rest I figured out for myself . Never mind. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I have never seen a more paranoid group of people in my life!
Now anytime a new dog shows up, sure, there's gonna be some butt sniffin' goin' on, but you guys give the full colonoscopy.
And true, most sniffing is usually done by the betas. The alphas give a glance then go back to their gig.
I'm starting to think some of you betas are a little sweet on me. Like the cut of my jib do ya?
Some of the long time alphas here have said the exact same thing I have, and nary a word from the underlings. Yet climb up my butt like that dude in Fletch they do.
Could it be that you guys have been put in your place by the alphas enough to know to stay shut of them. Makes ya go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Don't it?
Everytime I grab my little stick with the handkerchief on it, start to hop a train to leave, someone begs me stay by throwing a buffalo turd at me.
I have never seen a more paranoid group of people in my life!
Now anytime a new dog shows up, sure, there's gonna be some butt sniffin' goin' on, but you guys give the full colonoscopy.
And true, most sniffing is usually done by the betas. The alphas give a glance then go back to their gig.
I'm starting to think some of you betas are a little sweet on me. Like the cut of my jib do ya?
Some of the long time alphas here have said the exact same thing I have, and nary a word from the underlings. Yet climb up my butt like that dude in Fletch they do.
Could it be that you guys have been put in your place by the alphas enough to know to stay shut of them. Makes ya go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Don't it?
Everytime I grab my little stick with the handkerchief on it, start to hop a train to leave, someone begs me stay by throwing a buffalo turd at me.
I had MJ pegged as an alpha.
Must be losing my touch. >>
Paranoia setting in, that's all. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
No problem Stairman. I edit for spelling as it's an OCD thing. No need to apologize to me. I have no feelings to hurt. Grab a tasty beverage and enoy the balance of the night. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I think the ebay free police bites, never will understand why people are so entrilled to stick their nose into someone elses buggers. That said for every good deed they manage to do they will blow 2 others.
I feel for the 20 year olds nowdays, they will never know what life was like before mountains of rules, glad i am way passed that point.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
Regardless of the "personal issues' some people have with others here, I'm still hoping to hear from some of "THEM" agents in our midst. The fact that they do exist and will not expose themselves is indicative of their "secret society". That's no cause for paranoia. It's no cause for action. It's only important to impart the truth on those in denial of it. Real men can stand up and be counted. Voter fraud is not just a myth.
Polllsters know all to well how to manipulate the masses. The court of public opinion runs rampant. See TELEVISION for a report. If one doesn't believe that, check out Facebook with the "LIKE" "DON'T Like". I'm not even on facebook and I see their link and twitter's link on my auctions. Who's paying me for eBay to link them to my listings ? Lots of trespassers don't even know they're doing it.
<< <i>Regardless of the "personal issues' some people have with others here, I'm still hoping to hear from some of "THEM" agents in our midst. The fact that they do exist and will not expose themselves is indicative of their "secret society". That's no cause for paranoia. It's no cause for action. It's only important to impart the truth on those in denial of it. Real men can stand up and be counted. Voter fraud is not just a myth.
Polllsters know all to well how to manipulate the masses. The court of public opinion runs rampant. See TELEVISION for a report. If one doesn't believe that, check out Facebook with the "LIKE" "DON'T Like". I'm not even on facebook and I see their link and twitter's link on my auctions. Who's paying me for eBay to link them to my listings ? Lots of trespassers don't even know they're doing it. >>
I like the facebook facility button on the bay , makes it easy to share to a far wider audience , i dont sell any longer but i do buy and browse , look at the button as possible free advertising.With the Spy Vs Spy thing here , somebody said earlier a member of the CCW can not disclose the same , seems simple enough whether right or wrong its how it is apparantly.
<< <i>With the Spy Vs Spy thing here , somebody said earlier a member of the CCW can not disclose the same , seems simple enough whether right or wrong its how it is apparantly. >>
See that's the problem with hearsay and here-read. Somebody said ? That's how many of our brethren got slaughtered in Europe and Africa. Somebody said : "let's go kill that class of people", and the PEOPLE said, "Okay".
<< <i><<Joe Mccarthy would give this thread two thumbs up.>>
So then...if the IRS formed a "Paying Every Dime in Taxes on Every Coin Sold Committee"...and some around here volunteered to join it...and report back on any chit-chat they picked up here...everyone would be A-OK with that too?
I think not.
. >>
what makes you think they don't already?
I have less of a problem with knowledgeable people.... ' THE COMMITTEE' ......recommending a shutdown of an auction than just automatic software shutdowns. pick your poison.
<< <i><<Joe Mccarthy would give this thread two thumbs up.>>
So then...if the IRS formed a "Paying Every Dime in Taxes on Every Coin Sold Committee"...and some around here volunteered to join it...and report back on any chit-chat they picked up here...everyone would be A-OK with that too?
I think not.
. >>
what makes you think they don't already?
I have less of a problem with knowledgeable people.... ' THE COMMITTEE' ......recommending a shutdown of an auction than just automatic software shutdowns. pick your poison. >>
I assumed the board is read by the IRS, by crooks, by cheats, by creeps and by scammers right beside us nefarious coin collectors and dealers. We already know from Roger Burdette's testimony in the Langbord case that Uncle Sam reads the boards and reports back. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I feel for the 20 year olds nowdays, they will never know what life was like before mountains of rules, glad i am way passed that point. >>
Yes, I am sure the 20 year old novice was really taken care of before all these rules. i.e. taken for a ride by every unscrupulous seller out there. >>
It does not mattter if you are 20 or 100 at some point you need to take responsibility for you actions. You can not protect everyone from everything. Tote the not car lots, pawn shops, rent to own all look to the poor and people that can not manage their money to make money. You go to a coin show and you see a coin that a dealer wants 200 bucks for, some people may ask for a better price and some may not, some may think at best it is worth 20 bucks and some may believe it is underpriced. You do not have to buy it. Everyone sitting around you on a airplane did not gennerally pay the same price for the seat they are sitting in. You go to a car dealer and you may pay more or less than the guy before you for a vehicle that had the same list and options. I know people that go to a dealer and say i will take that car, what is the price and they save okay. Some people may own 7 rolexes and others will never being able to buy a (insert name). You will never have a level playing field. Some people raise to the top and others flounder at the bottom. You can raise from the bottom if you so desire and are willing.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
In most instances in life, kicking down a door and allowing some fresh air and sunshine into a dark room is usually a positive development...for those not already in the room!
eBay's attempts to clean up its coin auctions are admirable and long overdue.
I am sure there are many instances where even a casual collector can alert eBay to a problem sale and for that reason the newly formed watch group can be helpful.
It's eBay's site and they can allow or not allow any auction they want. However for eBay to remove a PCGS (or NGC) graded coin because of some amateur grader's opinion demonstrates a real lack of knowledge on their part. Some people always like to second guess the grading services. We welcome any new competition who wants to offer the same service and same guarantee that we do.
If anyone has a PCGS graded coin removed by eBay because it is deemed to be a problem coin please contact me with the cert. # and any correspondence from eBay.
<If anyone has a PCGS graded coin removed by eBay because it is deemed to be a problem coin please contact me with the cert. # and any correspondence from eBay>
Don would you be kind enough to report back if the number becomes troubling?
Thanks, MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>If anyone has a PCGS graded coin removed by eBay because it is deemed to be a problem coin please contact me with the cert. # and any correspondence from eBay. >>
Makes me think it hasn't happened yet to a true PCGS slab. I think this thread has been a lot of nothing....
Comments
Although that is unknowable, the law of large numbers would say that the odds are definitely against it. If all eBay transactions executed by members of this board even equaled 1% of total US coin sales on the site (which is probably very generous), it would be more likely that auctions involving 100 legit slabs have been canned. But since the committee isn't screening all sales all the time (unless a computer program is being used by eBay to pre-screen for "highly suspect" terminology), the actual numbers are just unknowable at this time. But maybe if eBay decided to shed any/some light on this process, we might have more info to go on.
And this recent thread perfectly highlights why attempting to reject a slabbed coin based only on pictures is just plain impossible (and wrong). What happens if one of those who quessed AT here is a member of eBay's coin committee? Will it get kicked when it's offered for sale?
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=818443&STARTPAGE=2
Instead of this thread, why not build your own auction site for coins, and list to your hearts content. Gather a group of core sellers, pool money, and establish yourself as one of the premire coin auction destinations, or go to the BST, Great Collections, teletrade, HA, Stack's, etc.
This is not a diagloue, you would need an ebay representative posting here for this to be a dialogue.
The three options I see are that you could again establish a coalition of sellers, try and get industry backing, and approach ebay. Or get your own site and set your own rules. Or go home and do nothing.
If it's ruining your bottom line so badly do something.
--There is no crying in baseball or coin collecting
2) I love how some personalities come out on the forum....people that hide their identities. People that maybe haven't even met anyone else on the forum or let them know they met. People that come in here and make very bold claims and/or come in all blustery. Makes for some fun trolling to watch
At the end of the day, I would hope that PCGS (and NGC) would have reps working with Ebay and a way for auctions to be looked at before they are taken down. Unless, of course, that becomes too time consuming. If it is a small number, and ebay would know, then it would be cool to have the TPGS give a comment to ebay before it is pulled (ie....yes, that definitely looks like it was AT'ed after holdered....or, yes, that is from a group of slabs we know were worked on and submitted and now the work is going bad....etc).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>I wasn't goin to post here, but now I can't seem to stop myself. Everyday I read from this forum, and everyday there is a post where someone vents about how ebay screwed them out of this or that. Ebay is refered to as "e-scam, e-screw, e-whatever." In this thread alone we've heard lannguage such as "secret society, spys, agents, police, power screwer ( a dig at power seller status I believe)" ad nauseum. Frankly it means nothing to me as I don't sell or buy from ebay. My question is this. With all the animosity directed at ebay, why do you still want to sell there? It's their field, their ball, their rules. They want to kick out ANACS, well that's their right. They want to create a group of "experts" to troll listings and have them removed. Guess what, it's their right.
Instead of this thread, why not build your own auction site for coins, and list to your hearts content. Gather a group of core sellers, pool money, and establish yourself as one of the premire coin auction destinations, or go to the BST, Great Collections, teletrade, HA, Stack's, etc.
This is not a diagloue, you would need an ebay representative posting here for this to be a dialogue.
The three options I see are that you could again establish a coalition of sellers, try and get industry backing, and approach ebay. Or get your own site and set your own rules. Or go home and do nothing.
If it's ruining your bottom line so badly do something.
--There is no crying in baseball or coin collecting >>
Some on these boards aren't happy unless they have something to complain about. Much like the real world you can't please some people no matter what you do. eBay is a vibrant and valuable venue to many in the hobby. The whiners on these boards do not speak for the vast majority of eBay sellers. They still get the most eyeballs on coin auctions and are cheap compared to several other venues who continue to raise their prices.
Perhaps Ebay should just exit the coin market and allow others to handle it.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Here an idea maybe they need a way on eBay that you pre-submit your images and get a digital sticker attached saying it's OK to list your coin. Kind of like CAC but all online.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Didn't have to wait long for an answer.
Careful with these types of remarks...it would appear that the walls now have ears!
<< <i><<Here an idea maybe they need a way on eBay that you pre-submit your images and get a digital sticker attached saying it's OK to list your coin. Kind of like CAC but all online.>>
Careful with these types of remarks...it would appear that the walls now have ears!
Actually, that suggestion isn't good enough. How does eBay know you even have the coin?
The only way to insure a safe marketplace is for buyers to send their coins to eBay, where eBay will photograph and write the descriptions themselves. Or, more likely, hire out the work to anonymous helpers. But don't worry... you can trust that your coins will be safe because these anonymous helper people have been thouroughly screened by- well, you don't really need to know about how that works.
This system has the added benefit of preventing sellers from misdescribing the coins they sell, as the anonymous helper people will certainly be able to be more objective about this than the coins' owners. Aside from minor details like calling SA proof set toned coins "AT" (nobody can be expected to know everything so we'll just let this sort of stuff slide), what could go wrong?
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
I received this from Mark Feld with his expressed interest to share his experience and add some light to the subject. Copy and pasted in it's entirety from the e-mail he sent me. MJ
Years ago, I was on the committee for a short time. There was no direct or indirect compensation or perks of any kind for me. We received reports from Ebay members and acted (or chose not to act) upon them, depending upon the specific circumstances. I was aware of no agendas among group members, other than removing fraudulent listings and/or those which were in obvious violation of stated Ebay policy.
While I deplore what the individual allegedly did with respect to the PCGS listings that were removed recently, I seriously doubt that such actions will be tolerated for very long. And I see, what appears to be a gross overreaction among a few individuals.
MF
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I hope I'm allowed to call you MJ. The school marms are all over me.
In the message posted by uofa1285, I hope I got that right, it appeared the person in question was sending a report to the CCW for review.
Could be wrong. Almost was once. That's what I took from it.
Edited because I had 1285 as 1825.
Humble appologies.
<< <i>
<< <i>If you start to see lots of PCGS coin auctions nuked then you have cause for concern. All this over one instance when the group has been around for years makes no sense.
If we don't know why the auctions were nuked and we are hearing one side of the story why are so many conclusions being jumped in to? I don't know that seller or his sales history. Something may have happened that caused those items to be taken down that we do not know about. >>
One instance that has come to light, how many have gone under the radar?? Perhaps none but it is foolish to assume that this is the one and only incident where a listing has been pulled in this manor. The op is correct this is a very slippery slope that appears to be mismanaged baised on the availible information; like you I'd like to hear both sides of the story but if one side says silent that will be difficult. >>
We only KNOW of one instance, and that is because I belong to these boards. If this group has been involved for years on eBay, who knows how many non-PCGS board member eBay sellers have gotten their listings nixed and/or their accounts bammed. My example could me one of hundreds...think bigger picture please.
To all of you that cavalierly say, "oh, it's for the overall good and/or one incident doesn't matter"...that's because it wasn't YOU!
Try telling that to your family if your livelivhood depended on your eBay sales...I believe it would not provide them much solace and would definitely not make the house payment for them.
Doug
<< <i>FWIW
I received this from Mark Feld with his expressed interest to share his experience and add some light to the subject. Copy and pasted in it's entirety from the e-mail he sent me. MJ
Years ago, I was on the committee for a short time. There was no direct or indirect compensation or perks of any kind for me. We received reports from Ebay members and acted (or chose not to act) upon them, depending upon the specific circumstances. I was aware of no agendas among group members, other than removing fraudulent listings and/or those which were in obvious violation of stated Ebay policy.
While I deplore what the individual allegedly did with respect to the PCGS listings that were removed recently, I seriously doubt that such actions will be tolerated for very long. And I see, what appears to be a gross overreaction among a few individuals.
MF >>
Always happy to hear from Mark. Still sad he's not around. I couldn't agree more with his sentiment.
Today, things are different. The CCW (Coin Community Watch) or CWG (the generic Community Watch Group) does not receive reports from ebay members. They initiate them. Only ebay support staff acts on reports, wherever their source, and chooses to kill auctions, wait for more corroborative reports, or ignore them.
Those from CWG members are deemed credible. Those from the general community require further input and review.
It's not a perfect system by any means. But it's better than an unmoderated free for all. Let's hope it improves.
Lance.
<< <i>Today, things are different. The CCW (Coin Community Watch) or CWG (the generic Community Watch Group) does not receive reports from ebay members. >>
Actually, this link is to report coin listings to the CCW.
CCW
<< <i>
<< <i>Today, things are different. The CCW (Coin Community Watch) or CWG (the generic Community Watch Group) does not receive reports from ebay members. >>
Actually, this link is to report coin listings to the CCW.
CCW >>
The link sends the report to an ebay specialist who will consult the group if further guidance is necessary. Not all reports involve the CCW, only the ones that ebay decides to send to them. Here is a reply on my latest report of a counterfeit coin:
"Thanks for reporting this listing to us. I sent your report to our Coin Community Watch group for their review
and they agreed with your assessment. As a result, I removed the listing. Sincerely, Judith eBay Customer Support."
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Indeed,
Technically you are correct. That link goes to Judith and she forwards it to CCW.
In the message listed on the other post, the member mentioned he hoped Judith would act on it, that shows me he's not a direct member of the CCW.
I wonder how many sweet messages he's recieved from someone posting his ID here?
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
i just found it strange in a way
But I believe if you just hit the report button on a listing, instead of using that link, it's not as likely to end up in the same place.
I have received a few messages on this subject myself. Sifting through it all.
And no, I won't post any of it either.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
You are right.
I'm out.
<< <i>MJ,
You are right.
I'm out. >>
Dude, you can't receive PM's unless your PM function is turned on. Unless of course you don't want private messages from board members here. I don't blame you if you didn't. I have half the board blocked myself
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I didn't just fall on this planet. I do know people on this board and they know me.
The messages are on my ebay account.
I've posted regularly on other boards.
I had just joined here at the urging of others when I had family issues to take care of.
I didn't have time to take on another board.
Dude,
Who's sewing now.
I thought you were one of the level headed ones.
Guess not, Dude.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I have never seen a more paranoid group of people in my life!
Now anytime a new dog shows up, sure, there's gonna be some butt sniffin' goin' on, but you guys give the full colonoscopy.
And true, most sniffing is usually done by the betas. The alphas give a glance then go back to their gig.
I'm starting to think some of you betas are a little sweet on me. Like the cut of my jib do ya?
Some of the long time alphas here have said the exact same thing I have, and nary a word from the underlings. Yet climb up my butt like that dude in Fletch they do.
Could it be that you guys have been put in your place by the alphas enough to know to stay shut of them. Makes ya go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Don't it?
Everytime I grab my little stick with the handkerchief on it, start to hop a train to leave, someone begs me stay by throwing a buffalo turd at me.
I had MJ pegged as an alpha.
Must be losing my touch.
I'm not losing my touch. I'm also not a post editor, so I'll let my last post stand.
Can you wonder why I jumped to conclusions? Now maybe you haven't read all the posts directed at me, but I'm starting to get my hackles up.
I get their Saul Alinski (and yeah I probably spelled that wrong) tactics, I know what the "paint by number clique" is up to.
So I obviously jumped to conclusions with you, and am actually happy that I did, as I had you figured for a stand up guy.
So, really this time, I appologize to you.
<< <i>I do declare,
I have never seen a more paranoid group of people in my life!
Now anytime a new dog shows up, sure, there's gonna be some butt sniffin' goin' on, but you guys give the full colonoscopy.
And true, most sniffing is usually done by the betas. The alphas give a glance then go back to their gig.
I'm starting to think some of you betas are a little sweet on me. Like the cut of my jib do ya?
Some of the long time alphas here have said the exact same thing I have, and nary a word from the underlings. Yet climb up my butt like that dude in Fletch they do.
Could it be that you guys have been put in your place by the alphas enough to know to stay shut of them. Makes ya go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Don't it?
Everytime I grab my little stick with the handkerchief on it, start to hop a train to leave, someone begs me stay by throwing a buffalo turd at me.
I had MJ pegged as an alpha.
Must be losing my touch. >>
Paranoia setting in, that's all. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I feel for the 20 year olds nowdays, they will never know what life was like before mountains of rules, glad i am way passed that point.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Real men can stand up and be counted. Voter fraud is not just a myth.
Polllsters know all to well how to manipulate the masses. The court of public opinion runs rampant. See TELEVISION for a report. If one doesn't believe that, check out Facebook with the "LIKE" "DON'T Like". I'm not even on facebook and I see their link and twitter's link on my auctions. Who's paying me for eBay to link them to my listings ?
Lots of trespassers don't even know they're doing it.
<< <i>Regardless of the "personal issues' some people have with others here, I'm still hoping to hear from some of "THEM" agents in our midst. The fact that they do exist and will not expose themselves is indicative of their "secret society". That's no cause for paranoia. It's no cause for action. It's only important to impart the truth on those in denial of it.
Real men can stand up and be counted. Voter fraud is not just a myth.
Polllsters know all to well how to manipulate the masses. The court of public opinion runs rampant. See TELEVISION for a report. If one doesn't believe that, check out Facebook with the "LIKE" "DON'T Like". I'm not even on facebook and I see their link and twitter's link on my auctions. Who's paying me for eBay to link them to my listings ?
Lots of trespassers don't even know they're doing it. >>
I like the facebook facility button on the bay , makes it easy to share to a far wider audience , i dont sell any longer but i do buy and browse , look at the button as possible free advertising.With the Spy Vs Spy thing here , somebody said earlier a member of the CCW can not disclose the same , seems simple enough whether right or wrong its how it is apparantly.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
<< <i>I for one would rather see the ebay police err on the side of caution. >>
Pulling legitimately graded PCGS coins and leaving abominations like this is not my idea of erring on the side of caution.
<< <i>With the Spy Vs Spy thing here , somebody said earlier a member of the CCW can not disclose the same , seems simple enough whether right or wrong its how it is apparantly. >>
See that's the problem with hearsay and here-read. Somebody said ? That's how many of our brethren got slaughtered in Europe and Africa. Somebody said : "let's go kill that class of people", and the PEOPLE said, "Okay".
<< <i><<Joe Mccarthy would give this thread two thumbs up.>>
So then...if the IRS formed a "Paying Every Dime in Taxes on Every Coin Sold Committee"...and some around here volunteered to join it...and report back on any chit-chat they picked up here...everyone would be A-OK with that too?
I think not.
. >>
what makes you think they don't already?
I have less of a problem with knowledgeable people.... ' THE COMMITTEE' ......recommending a shutdown of an auction than just automatic software shutdowns.
pick your poison.
<< <i>
<< <i><<Joe Mccarthy would give this thread two thumbs up.>>
So then...if the IRS formed a "Paying Every Dime in Taxes on Every Coin Sold Committee"...and some around here volunteered to join it...and report back on any chit-chat they picked up here...everyone would be A-OK with that too?
I think not.
. >>
what makes you think they don't already?
I have less of a problem with knowledgeable people.... ' THE COMMITTEE' ......recommending a shutdown of an auction than just automatic software shutdowns.
pick your poison. >>
I assumed the board is read by the IRS, by crooks, by cheats, by creeps and by scammers right beside us nefarious coin collectors and dealers. We already know from Roger Burdette's testimony in the Langbord case that Uncle Sam reads the boards and reports back. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I feel for the 20 year olds nowdays, they will never know what life was like before mountains of rules, glad i am way passed that point. >>
Yes, I am sure the 20 year old novice was really taken care of before all these rules.
i.e. taken for a ride by every unscrupulous seller out there.
<< <i>Mr. Teddy,
I have received a few messages on this subject myself. Sifting through it all.
And no, I won't post any of it either. >>
I love this type of reply. I got a secret but i am not telling, i just wanted to let you guys know that i am important. LOL
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>
<< <i>I feel for the 20 year olds nowdays, they will never know what life was like before mountains of rules, glad i am way passed that point. >>
Yes, I am sure the 20 year old novice was really taken care of before all these rules.
i.e. taken for a ride by every unscrupulous seller out there. >>
It does not mattter if you are 20 or 100 at some point you need to take responsibility for you actions. You can not protect everyone from everything. Tote the not car lots, pawn shops, rent to own all look to the poor and people that can not manage their money to make money. You go to a coin show and you see a coin that a dealer wants 200 bucks for, some people may ask for a better price and some may not, some may think at best it is worth 20 bucks and some may believe it is underpriced. You do not have to buy it. Everyone sitting around you on a airplane did not gennerally pay the same price for the seat they are sitting in. You go to a car dealer and you may pay more or less than the guy before you for a vehicle that had the same list and options. I know people that go to a dealer and say i will take that car, what is the price and they save okay. Some people may own 7 rolexes and others will never being able to buy a (insert name). You will never have a level playing field. Some people raise to the top and others flounder at the bottom. You can raise from the bottom if you so desire and are willing.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
I am sure there are many instances where even a casual collector can alert eBay to a problem sale and for that reason the newly formed watch group can be helpful.
It's eBay's site and they can allow or not allow any auction they want. However for eBay to remove a PCGS (or NGC) graded coin because of some amateur grader's opinion demonstrates a real lack of knowledge on their part. Some people always like to second guess the grading services. We welcome any new competition who wants to offer the same service and same guarantee that we do.
If anyone has a PCGS graded coin removed by eBay because it is deemed to be a problem coin please contact me with the cert. # and any correspondence from eBay.
thanks.
Don would you be kind enough to report back if the number becomes troubling?
Thanks, MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>If anyone has a PCGS graded coin removed by eBay because it is deemed to be a problem coin please contact me with the cert. # and any correspondence from eBay. >>
Makes me think it hasn't happened yet to a true PCGS slab. I think this thread has been a lot of nothing....