Shilling your own auction item is generally not a very smart practice. If you win, you're on the hook for the buyers premium, the sales tax, if applicable, and the cost to ship the item back to you. The only way it makes sense is if you are certain that someone else will outbid you.
Not accusing anyone of anything but how can they really keep people who consign from bidding on there own cards if they have a friend or family member do it?
The one that PWCC sold should NOT have sold for that much. I believe that is a record price for that card. Looking at the bid activity, the last real bid was at $382.50, which is a reasonable, but below VCP average bid. Since that bid, two people bid it up to the moon. At the end of the month, Probstein123 sold one, and his sold for $611, which is $150 higher than VCP average. Maybe the card is enjoying an upswing?
I had 60 items end last week ranging from .99 to $960.
Total sales price of $3,653.10
These ended mid week and on Friday. I received a check today for $3,146.04
That's 86% of the gross price. What did I do exactly. Well I packed them up and sent 2 day Priority.
I gave up what exactly? 5-6%?
So for $200 basically I listed nothing, didn't answer a question, didn't send a total price, didn't worry about collecting money, opening unpaid item cases, didn't pack anything, didn't ship anything.
I have zero issue with paying a consignor fee. There I's nothing better. Whether it's Probstein, PWCC, whomever. If you want to move product I wouldn't do it yourself. I'm selling 200-300 items a month. I would never go to it on my own again.
Secondly, I believe these incredible prices are realized by the consignors because there is almost 100% certainty there will never be an issue with getting your items in a couple days. Also I know that returns are never an issue as a buyer. There should never be a worry shen buying from the 2 biggest consignors.
There are always so many posts about this topic. IMO someone should bid what they feel the card is worth and what they are willing to spend period. If you get it for less great, if it goes for a huge price and it was bid up high, well the person probably put too high of a bid in. Sure EBay must have a percentage if items that get schill bid. But it doesn't seem possible that all these examples and posts around here are schill bids. I think it's more probably items that may not get paid for than schills. But again if it is a schill why did someone bid so high to begin with?
I think a lot of times too buyers will bid lots of times to scare away other buyers to make it look like schill bidding.
And also we have to take into account ignorance on the buyers part. How many people all of sudden just start buying cards not understanding EBay or the cards industry? I know when I got into cards back in 2008, I overpaid for items, bought a few trimmed cards and resealed packs.
Does schill bidding go on? Yes absolutely, I just think all the examples and record prices can't be soley blamed on that. There are many other reasons...
<< <i>miconelegacy do you bid on your consignments? >>
No. I agree with what Paul said about Auction Houses.
I don't buy much from auction houses as there never seems to be average prices. But that could also have a bit to do with exposure. Same reason I think the consignors get more for their items they sell.
Personally I have paid more for an item a little bit for convenience. But some of these have been outrageous.
We are seeing record prices all around. Some of the examples have to be schill bidding. When buying I bid what I am comfortable with.
Here we go again, Micon. We all know Gumbyfan is talking about Probstein. And we all know how you feel about him, Micon. I have no ill will against the man (he is a man, right?), but the brown nosing has gone too far.
And also we have to take into account ignorance on the buyers part. How many people all of sudden just start buying cards not understanding EBay or the cards industry? I know when I got into cards back in 2008, I overpaid for items, bought a few trimmed cards and resealed packs.
Been there.
Over the last week, I've been watching a bidder with like half a feedback, actually 5, go after my targets and outbid me every time. That does drive the price wacko in some cases.
That's funny, really it is. We need the lapdance comment in here too.
I posted for a detailed example for the OP's benefit and anyone on the fence about consigning. As you can read I mentioned the top 2 consignors in my post not just Probstein.
And as far as Gumbyfan's post, I'm sorry he had a bad experience. That was posted what 4 days ago? I think the OP that started the thread was interested in learning about consigning. I guess my post didn't help in that aspect.
What I do know is people like examples and like facts. I'll assume the role of brown noser or lapdance man or whatever you would like to call me.
<< <i>I had 60 items end last week ranging from .99 to $960.
Total sales price of $3,653.10
These ended mid week and on Friday. I received a check today for $3,146.04
That's 86% of the gross price. What did I do exactly. Well I packed them up and sent 2 day Priority.
I gave up what exactly? 5-6%?
So for $200 basically I listed nothing, didn't answer a question, didn't send a total price, didn't worry about collecting money, opening unpaid item cases, didn't pack anything, didn't ship anything.
I have zero issue with paying a consignor fee. There I's nothing better. Whether it's Probstein, PWCC, whomever. If you want to move product I wouldn't do it yourself. I'm selling 200-300 items a month. I would never go to it on my own again. >>
Well, I'm going to go ahead and guess that your listings were given a little more attention by Rick. When I mailed out the stuff I wanted sold, I sent a rather long PM explaining what I had sent along with an offer to send him the electronic version of the 7 page packing list I included with the stuff I sent. He didn't respond with any interest in getting the excel file, and said he would let me know when the stuff arrived.
Here's a quick breakdown of what I sent and how I wanted them listed:
I sent a total of 170 graded cards to be sold individually, 50 graded cards to be sold in 1 lot, 56 raw singles, 2 books that I got with PSA memberships over the years, 10 mini baseball pennants from the '70s that I wanted listed individually, 24 separate sealed issues of SMRs, an original Michael Jordan "Wings" Nike poster, 10 music posters and some signed and unsigned music memorabilia. I'll stick with the sports stuff here since this isn't a music board. Before someone points out that Rick usually doesn't sell music stuff, I'll note that I sent a PM and asked if he was willing to sell the stuff before pulling things out of storage and he said yes.
Here's some more detail:
He individually listed 136 of the 170 graded cards that were to be sold individually and the rest were put in lots. He listed 123 of those cards the same day he received my cards. Here's an example of one of the listings. You would think that for a 1977 Topps PSA 10 that is a pop 5, the player's name would be spelled correctly. Not the end of the world, but I should have been more concerned when I saw it. It was too late to have it corrected since it already had bids, so I just let it ride. Still, it should have been a red flag for what was to come.
I noticed that a few of the cards that I wanted listed individually were held back along with the 50 card lot of cards from the same player. Concerned that there might be a chance that they would be included in lots, I sent a PM and made it pretty clear that 3 specific cards that weren't already listed needed to be listed individually instead of in lots because they were low pop, higher value cards. One of those cards was a Pop 2 PSA 10 from the 1991 Topps Desert Shield set. Anyone following that set knows that a Pop 2 common should usually sell pretty strongly since there are a bunch of guys building that set. In my note to Rick I noted that it was a Pop 2, but it was not noted in the listing title. This seems pretty basic to me. link A quick search of Rick's listings shows there are 55 items that currently have "Pop 2" in the title. Why wasn't that done for this listing? My guess is that Rick was disinterested because he just saw it as another common card that wasn't worth his time.
One of the other 3 cards I send Rick a PM about in order to note that this specific cards needed to be listed individually was a card that is in 2 different master player registry sets and only has a handful of graded examples. He replied to tell me they would be listed individually. If eBay still had the closed listings available for me to link to, I would show you the 11 card lot of Robin Yount cards he included it in. Again, I think he wasn't aware of what the card was so rather than take the word of the person who did, he just threw it in a lot with 10 other cards. To his credit, when I pointed this out after he listed it, he did pull the listing and said he would relist.
The lot of 50 graded cards that I wanted sold in 1 lot was sold as 2 lots of 24 cards and 2 individual listings. He charged more for shipping each of those 24 card lots than it would have cost to ship all 50 cards in one flat rate box. Please try to tell me that didn't cut into my take. Buyers factor shipping costs into their bids. I'm sure the USPS appreciates Rick's disregard of my wishes for these cards.
Of the 56 raw singles I sent, 53 were somewhat valuable Brett Favre inserts and parallels. I did quite a bit of research before deciding which cards I wanted auctioned off. Some of these inserts were pretty obscure, so rather than just send a stack of cards in toploads, I put each card in a penny sleeve, then a topload, then it's own individual team bag with a label so that it would be easier for each card to be listed without additional research being done. I explained this in my PM to Rick and the packing list had each card listed separately to make it very easy to list the cards. Rather than list each of the Favre cards individually, he listed 4 lots - 14, 14, 14, 10. (Ummm...for those of you keeping track at home, 14+14+14+10= 52 cards...I never did ask what happened to the 53rd card). On top of that, each lot didn't even have a list of the cards that were included in the lot, instead, Rick just scanned the cards in the team bags with my labels showing. Again, since eBay doesn't have the unsold listings available anymore, I can't link you to them. I can, however, show you what the scans looked like because I grabbed them from the listings:
I sent Rick a PM indicating these needed to be listed separately because there are actually some pretty decent inserts in the lot. He pulled the listings and relisted them individually. The 53rd card reappeared, thankfully. One of the raw cards was a 1998 Absolute Tandems card featuring Favre & another quarterback people may have heard of named Peyton Manning. Here's a link to the listing. Notice the title. Also, the listing originally only had a scan of the front of the card. I immediately contacted him to say that Manning's name needed to be in the title and a scan of the back added since it's his rookie year and since it would probably sell a lot better with people being able to find it when they search for his cards. Well, someone bid on the card between the time I contacted him to have the listing corrected and when he got around to fixing it. Rather than cancel the bid and correct it properly, it was just added as a footnote to the listing. It's good to know that he's still actively accepting CONSIGNMENTS!!! - even when doing a really poor job at fixing incomplete listings. Now, I wouldn't be nearly as bothered by this if it wasn't for these other listings: Brett Favre / Rickey WattersBrett Favre / Michael Jordan / Perry Carter - (even though it was Michael Jackson, not Jordan, but why split those hairs?
The rest of the stuff was clearly not worth his time.
He took the 10 pennants from the 70's and listed them with 1 scan. I am confident that if each one was listed separately, I would've seen more money. Older logos for just about every team in the lot makes those little pennants collectable. "Yankees Tigers Indians White Sox +" Nobody collects the Red Sox, I guess. (or the Orioles, A's, Twins, Royals or Angels)
My favorite listing of them all was the 1 lot of 24 SMRs that he listed. Again, I expected them to be listed individually. Instead, the lot of 24 sealed magazines sold for $1.79. No listing of the magazines that were included in the lot. Here's a link to the listing. I'm gonna go ahead and speculate that 99.9% of people looking for Elvis Presley stuff on eBay isn't doing a search for "Presley" absent the word "Elvis". Just sayin'.
Wrapping up the sports stuff, the 2 PSA membership books were listed in a lot. Again, why these two items weren't listed individually is beyond me. A final link on the subject.
Based on the above, it's tough to tell how much money was left on the table just due to the poor listings.
Coupled with the $90.88 that I calculated he overcharged on fees (charged 206 times for the individual paypal transaction fee of $.30 that he was only charged 62 times = $43.20. Taking the shipping final value fees of $.28 for each of the 206 listings which I believe should've been paid out of the shipping fees he charges is another $57.68...put those totals ($100.88) in the pre-commission column and take his commission out and I'm looking at an additional $90.88 in my pocket, as opposed to padding his).
Now, being fully transparent, after I was told that he is "not in business to put up items that sell for $6.00", I apologized that my items were below his standard and instructed him to please return the handful of things he hadn't listed back to me and to deduct the postage from my profit. He shipped them back on his dime. Now, I would have expected that the tube of posters would have been taped shut again before being shipped, but I guess that was too much to ask. When I got the tube back, the plastic tube end was barely hanging on and the posters inside must have come out while in transit and jammed back into the tube carelessly, because I don't think Rick would go to that extreme to damage my items before shipping them back. While I'm not happy with the service I received, I'm not going to assume or accuse him of intentionally damaging my goods.
In the end, it was a lesson learned for me. Here's the whole phrase that put me on the sidelines for the whole consignment deal - "I'm a nice guy but I can't believe we are having this conversation, i put up LOADS of your inventory almost that are below our standards and I didn't say BOO to you about it...I'm not in business to put up items that sell for $6.00"
For the amount of time I had to put in during the process to try to do everything I could to maximize my returns, I should have just listed them myself.
<< <i>"I'm a nice guy but I can't believe we are having this conversation, i put up LOADS of your inventory almost that are below our standards and I didn't say BOO to you about it...I'm not in business to put up items that sell for $6.00" >>
Rick, for you to make this statement in light of all the kudos that many members have given you is ridiculous. You've gotten a LOT of free publicity in this forum, which in my opinion should never have been allowed to continue. Perhaps in the middle of all that fee put you should have stepped in at some point and let the membership know what was acceptable for you in the way of consignments. Shame on you for your treatment of Craig's collection.
I guess I will never be consigning after reading that. What a mess. I'll take the time to sell my own stuff. I guess if you are a very busy person and don't care all that much about maximizing profits, consignment is for you. But if you want top-dollar for your mid to low price-range stuff, do it yourself.
Consignment to me is something you do if you don't want to do the work. You pay someone else to do it for you. When they don't want to do the work either, what is the point? lol
I have some items that I was considering to have consigned. I will wait until Rick comments on this thread. The $6.00 comment is questionable as there is a number of cards with a starting price of .99 in his listings.
Tallulah Bankhead — 'There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare.'
I have hesitated for several months to make my comments regarding my experiences with Rick Probstein as his following here seemed to hold him in such high regard.
Sloppy is the term I would use for how my items (and ultimately myself) were treated; (all shipments included packing list)
First consignment went out with several standard sized PSA cards and a few "tall boys". Standard sized items were listed and not the larger ones. After a day or two, called Rick and was told the items were missed when unpacking box, but were soon found, listed and sold.
All items sold, prices were good but not anything to be excited about. Received funds quickly, seemed like a good deal despite the tall boys being overlooked. No harm, no foul.
Was happy enough that I recommended Rick to a fellow collector who wanted to sell off some cards, but didn't want to list them himself.
At the same time Rick was nice enough to submit some cards to PSA for me for a fair price as I had let my membership lapse.
There might have been a second consignment that went well. One card from a PSA submission was returned to me that was not mine, shipped back to Rick.
The last consignment a set of 10 Minnesota Twins matchbooks disappeared. First I was told that they would be found, more emails followed asking how they were packed, then I was told they never got them. When I politely asked for some kind of consideration, I stated that I felt the set was worth about $100.00 (I was thinking half of that would be fair) Rick said he was not going to discuss it, and was going to speak to a lawyer friend of his, he said my packing list meant nothing. He then made some rather sad comments on my items low value and that he had done me a great favor in submitting cards for me to PSA. There also was at least one item that didn't sell that was never returned to me (J publishing Warren Spahn photo). I dropped the issue.
I decided to renew my membership with PSA, do my own submissions and auction off my own items. I was very offended at Rick's comments and would never consign with him or bid on any of his auctions. I got the feeling that my business would not be missed.
Joe
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
It was mentioned before in regards to the consigned 1960 PSA 8's, but I really dislike the practice of listing the consigned cards to end at the exact same time. There are auctions ending tonight whereby there are 2 of the same card, same grade, ending at the exact same time. That will not maximize profit. I would prefer the opportunity that if I lose the first, I'd go higher on the 2nd. At least spread them a minute apart.
Card bull market still in high gear. I was 3 for 50 last night and I bid over VCP in most cases. Strong bids were just blown away.
<< <i>You would think that for a 1977 Topps PSA 10 that is a pop 5, the player's name would be spelled correctly. >>
<< <i>I'm gonna go ahead and speculate that 99.9% of people looking for Elvis Presley stuff on eBay isn't doing a search for "Presley" absent the word "Elvis". >>
<< <i>each lot didn't even have a list of the cards that were included in the lot >>
<< <i>I would have expected that the tube of posters would have been taped shut again before being shipped >>
<< <i>the $90.88 that I calculated he overcharged on fees >>
Are you kidding ? Granted, people make mistakes, but for a low pop mis-spell. That costs $$$
Every morning, I do a search for new listings for a few players and search by name. If Schmidt it spelled Schmitt, it's not going to show up and I'll never find it and will not be part of the bidding festivities. It's why people load up the title with RC and Rookie, ... so that it's search-able.
If it's a low pop card, you put something like POP 1 of 4 in the title. That's a no brainer. Particularly when the consignor/customer requests it. I'm surprised that 76 Ryan does not contain POP 1 of 5 in the title.
I also was considering consigning some cards to Rick because of the high praise people have given him but now i'm going to hold off after reading this. I don't buy from him and Brent only because their prices are always above VCP on the few cards I need. Most of the cards i would be subbing are $20 to $60 value cards so I might as well sell myself but they do get top dollar for some reason. I have bought from alot of different people on eBay and BST board here and never had any problem.Maybe its luck but i just don't get why someone would pay soo much more just because of there name.
I am 2 for 2 with Rick,no problems on either deal.For me I will proably never sell anything myself again. My first package was only 12 psa cards,9 of 12 went above vcp,2 right at and last one was 4 bucks under,nice results and they were not really high end cards,$2-400 cards.The last sub went even better with a few helmets and cards,the night after auction was over $$ was in paypal,service with a smile for me,thanks again Rick! Just my 2cents.
I don't find Craig's analysis nitpicking at all. You should know exactly what you are being charged and how. That is just good business and protecting yourself. I keep a very detailed account of everything that I pay out in fees and such. Just lets me know if I am getting my money's worth.
That being said, I have used Rick and had absolutely zero problems. I normally send him a list of what I am sending before I send it off. I just like to make sure everything is good to list with him. It would not offend me if he chose not to list something or told me to hold onto something he did not want to list, but he has never said that to me.
In my opinion if you want to maximize profits with a consigner it should be over $100. If you can get an extra $5-10 because of exposure you are much better off having someone else do it for you. If it sells for under $50 it most likely is something I just wanted to get off my desk and ultimately the 15-20% I am paying is just convenience. It is like paying for a table at a show. Cost of doing business.
People like PWCC and Rick cannot do this for free and I will gladly pay to not label, pack and drive to the post office 3 times per week.
"Its just work and hassle that I prefer not dealing with. Its a lot of minutia scanning, listing, packaging, shipping & dealing with customer issues, especially if you are talking about dozens or 100's of items."
It costs a consignment house the same to do all of the above whether the item sells for $1.00, $10.00, or $100.00. With higher priced items there's enough money left over after fees to split up fairly so both the consignor and seller can profit from the sale. If you sell garbage for $6 and under almost all the money goes to shipping expenses and Ebay and PayPal fees.
On Rick's behalf... One item came back bad from authentiction, shipped back to me with the check I got about a week later.
He had a bunch of "petty" items of mine that I sent, listed them with out complaint and they sold for what I expected them to (Cheap, little +$10 here, +$5 here). - Just something that I threw in with this big order. The big item I sent was a vintage Ali glove /w auto... That commanded almost $700... Of which I got about $550 for the item... Which is more than I would have got ever had I sent it to jsa or psa, and then sold it myself.
Yeah, some of the listings weren't "done" so well, but it was on all the low dollar items that I just expected to be thrown up and done.
For instance, I sent him some 1959 wacky plaks, I couldn't get $50 for the low on the forums... At auction with him it sold for $125.
So yeah, few smaller items neglected, but it didn't bother me, because A: I'm not a nit-picker, B: I was too lazy to list the items at the time c: enough of the items got much higher than I could have got that it more than made up for the few bucks I missed.
Also I wasn't aware of the shipping FVF, but whatever, every time he sends a message it says "net" - so you know that there will be fees... If you didn't ask to find out what they were that is your fault imo.
I had thought about consigning with a certain consigner myself but since a good majority of my cards are lower dollar cards (20-50 bucks each) I guesss I will just bypass this whole process and find another way to sell them. It is sad because I was working on getting about 30 or 40 cards together to send him but after hearing how lower value cards like mine are not exactly welcomed with open arms, well I guess that is just not going to happen.
We all cannot have top quality, high dollar cards that insure high priority in listing them but it sure would be nice to know even the lesser value cards get the same respect and attention to detail as these higher dollar cards do. Looking at the examples Craig posted, it appears to me that sloppy listings and lack of attention to detail is a definite possibility and not something the lesser value cards I have for sale would do well with if this happen to them. Its just not worth the headache to me. I will take them to the next Rosemont show and work a trade and get something in return that isnt a kick to the seed bag!
My 300-lot consignment finished around 11:30PM on May 3rd and I had Rick's check in my mailbox on May 7th. That was impressive.
I've been reading the good and bad experiences that have been posted in this thread so far. I may be able to offer a more unique perspective because I have actually been to Rick's work site and have seen his operation first-hand.
My impression is that Rick works with a tremendous volume of items each week. Based on what I saw I would think he's probably adding somewhere between 3000-5000 new listings each week PLUS he also has to deal with hundreds of other items that need to be graded, authenticated, etc. prior to being listed. At such volumes I am sure that mistakes can happen.
Rick has a small staff working with him, and though self-sufficient it seemed to me that often they would verify activities involving work with items of significant value directly with Rick. Some might call that micro-management that limits the scale, but I thought it was kind of reassuring to have the head of the whole operation personally aware of what happens with the significant items his business has taken responsibility for.
Given the volume of items he is working with I understand the approach of having a minimal description in the item listings. That probably also adds support for giving common ending time for groups of items from the same consignor (it allows bulk submission). At the same time, when I identified several items that had specific significant in my 300-lot group he took the time to note these details (e.g. low pop, higher value items, etc.) and the listings for those items reflected the notes I provided.
One of the things I found most impressive was the speed at which communication with Rick seems to happen. It seemed to me that it was never took more than a few hours to get a reply or follow-up from Rick when I made any inquiries. And he was also prompt about proactively messaging me if he needed additional information.
Look, I truly believe that the majority of people who deal with Rick have had similar experiences to my own. He's human too, so I am sure that some of the reports of problems are not without some merit. However, having met Rick personally and worked with him several times I'd say that reports of him being abrasive or non-responsive are highly out of character for him. And these reports about "low dollar items" being less welcome do not accurately reflect my experience. More than 1/2 of my lots in this last group sold for less than $15. Knowing Rick I would think that the way someone interpreted what he said about "low dollar items" was probably much harsher than the way it was explained by Rick.
My best advice to any of you who is considering using a consignment organization to seel items on your behalf is to call Rick directly and get to know the man. Ask him what his fee structure is. Ask him about some of the good experiences you've seen reported here. Ask him about some of the not so good experiences you've seen reported here. Then weigh what you've heard and make an informed decision.
I'd say the same about Brent at PWCC too. He's always been both responsive and customer-focused whenever I've contacted him about items I've purchased.
Nobody in the world is perfect, but my experience with both Rick and Brent is that they are honest, hard-working and reasonable people who do an above- average job of servicing their customers.
Thought we should comment on the concerns raised in prior posts. We rarely engage directly with the message boards because, as an auction house, we feel the collecting community has the right to communicate freely without constant oversight. We accept that not all posts will be 100% positive and constructive criticism is a healthy thing. That said, we only try to intervene when communication becomes particularly heated, or when incorrect information arises.
In this case, a prior user made reference to reserves placed by consignors in place of a traditional eBay reserve. This is an ancient policy that we experimented with years ago but quickly abandoned. In total there were fewer than a dozen items that we approved for such reserves, and in all cases the reserve was met by a considerable margin. The practice was abandoned for a whole host of reasons, mostly logistical. The statement in the prior post by another member that 'we approved consignors placing reserves on any/all items' is completely false. It was only in highly unique situations, with highly volatile cards, that we approved this practice.
In recent times, the issue of fraudulent bidding (shill bidding) has become a common concern. We take the issue of shill bidding extremely seriously and it was the reference to this activity in prior posts that spurred our response here. Times have changed, and a greater level of discipline and conservatism is required to keep the bidding environment honest. We would not approve the reserve policy of the past in today's market because it lacks the transparency we now feel is a prerequisite to running our company.
Thanks to all to contribute to the message boards. As collectors, this is a best check-and-balance the hobby has going.
Best Regards,
Brent, PWCC
I appreciate that you are honest and admit to allowing shilling in your auctions in the past. Glad you don't allow it anymore.
Why would he hit the consigner for any kind of shipping fees? Doesn't he charge the buyer shipping?
From what I can tell, 707 is the DOLLAR STORE compared to deans_cards. For what that guy charges, if I ever bought anything from him I would expect it to be delivered to me in a frickin' limo. ~WalterSobchak
I think he was commenting about the Paypal Fee because instead of having individual buyers for each item, there were actually less buyers than there were items (some buyers puchased multiple items).
While I understand that there are potential economies of scale like this, there is really no way to know up front that each item won't be purchased by a separate buyer.
I'm just guessing, but it seems to me that if I were setting up a volume business it would be easier to just uniformly apply the paypal fee on each item than to figure it out after the fact each time based on how many distinct buyers there were for the items in the consignment.
Over time, perhaps I'd do some analysis to understand the average number of distinct buyers for a consignment and use that info to reduce the Paypal fee so that it basically averaged out to a zero-sum game.
But I don't think that any deliberate "monkey-business" was intended
<< <i>And these reports about "low dollar items" being less welcome do not accurately reflect my experience. More than 1/2 of my lots in this last group sold for less than $15. Knowing Rick I would think that the way someone interpreted what he said about "low dollar items" was probably much harsher than the way it was explained by Rick. >>
"I'm a nice guy but I can't believe we are having this conversation, i put up LOADS of your inventory almost that are below our standards and I didn't say BOO to you about it...I'm not in business to put up items that sell for $6.00"
How else would you describe Rick's exact words about low dollar items?
<< <i>Why would he hit the consigner for any kind of shipping fees? Doesn't he charge the buyer shipping? >>
He charges $3.50 per item for shipping (and combines shipping for multiple items purchased). Since eBay sellers were abusing the system and overcharging for shipping to avoid final value fees on the final sale price, they started charging the same final value fee rate on the shipping charges. Rick passed those fees down to me. However, nobody can tell me that it costs $3.50 to ship a single graded card in a business such as Rick's. He's collecting additional money from the shipping fees he charges that should be used to pay the fee that is associated with charging it in the first place.
My point on this was that if the profit from shipping charges isn't passed along to Rick's customers, the fees for collecting those shipping charges should also not be passed along.
<< <i>I think he was commenting about the Paypal Fee because instead of having individual buyers for each item, there were actually less buyers than there were items (some buyers puchased multiple items).
While I understand that there are potential economies of scale like this, there is really no way to know up front that each item won't be purchased by a separate buyer.
I'm just guessing, but it seems to me that if I were setting up a volume business it would be easier to just uniformly apply the paypal fee on each item than to figure it out after the fact each time based on how many distinct buyers there were for the items in the consignment.
Over time, perhaps I'd do some analysis to understand the average number of distinct buyers for a consignment and use that info to reduce the Paypal fee so that it basically averaged out to a zero-sum game.
But I don't think that any deliberate "monkey-business" was intended >>
Kind of what I'm guessing as well. He pays out the day after auctions ends, and we don't know if he ever has to file NPB claims, etc. For all I know he may have to relist items he sold for me and I already had the money in hand.
I can see where people think the additional fees should be explained up front, but I wasn't too worried about it when he list a bunch of stuff I didn't want anymore and I didn't lift a finger to list or ship. That would be true for all the consignors of course. What I don't know is - is it typical that they pay out to the consignee right away or do most consignors wait to ensure that they actually get paid for the listings?
Looking for rare Randy Moss rookies and autos, as well as '97 PMG Red Football cards for my set.
<< <i>I think he was commenting about the Paypal Fee because instead of having individual buyers for each item, there were actually less buyers than there were items (some buyers puchased multiple items).
While I understand that there are potential economies of scale like this, there is really no way to know up front that each item won't be purchased by a separate buyer.
I'm just guessing, but it seems to me that if I were setting up a volume business it would be easier to just uniformly apply the paypal fee on each item than to figure it out after the fact each time based on how many distinct buyers there were for the items in the consignment.
Over time, perhaps I'd do some analysis to understand the average number of distinct buyers for a consignment and use that info to reduce the Paypal fee so that it basically averaged out to a zero-sum game.
But I don't think that any deliberate "monkey-business" was intended >>
In a case such as mine, when it was pointed out that he passed along a specific fee 206 times when he was only charged that fee 62 times, an adjustment to his process should be made. Either that or be more transparent about what "net profit" means.
Crickets! Maybe he is too busy from all the business received from CU daily spam? I think it is time for Rick to also set a minimum value of $10 or $15 per item and $25 - $50 per lot. Anything less is likely a loss each time.
<< <i>Disclosing ALL the fees upfront in an email breaking them down for every consignor should be provided WITHOUT even asking EVERY TIME. Right?
Opportunism at its finest! Why people would do business with someone that does not break it down or use a contract is beyond me. I'm unimpressed. >>
I once emailed him regarding combined shipping on multiple items since it was not specified in his listing. I simply asked if he combined shipping charges on multiple items won, and if so after the $3.50 what would be the charge for each card won after that. His reply....."It depends." On what the price of gasoline. I didn't walk away....I ran.
<< <i>I think he was commenting about the Paypal Fee because instead of having individual buyers for each item, there were actually less buyers than there were items (some buyers puchased multiple items).
While I understand that there are potential economies of scale like this, there is really no way to know up front that each item won't be purchased by a separate buyer.
I'm just guessing, but it seems to me that if I were setting up a volume business it would be easier to just uniformly apply the paypal fee on each item than to figure it out after the fact each time based on how many distinct buyers there were for the items in the consignment.
Over time, perhaps I'd do some analysis to understand the average number of distinct buyers for a consignment and use that info to reduce the Paypal fee so that it basically averaged out to a zero-sum game.
But I don't think that any deliberate "monkey-business" was intended >>
In a case such as mine, when it was pointed out that he passed along a specific fee 206 times when he was only charged that fee 62 times, an adjustment to his process should be made. Either that or be more transparent about what "net profit" means. >>
Agreed. Even using the term "net profits" insinuates that you will NOT be overcharged for anything. That is the entire point of using the term "net profit". If you are paying fees that were not there, then you are NOT receiving your end of the bargain, end of story.
The only major thing I see is the PAYPAL .30 thing. If bidders won multiple auctions then there should only be the .30 ////not for every item. The auction house should fix that math and give the guy his money. This seems very easy once brought to the attention.
Wow! What a shame to treat some customers so well and loose his cool with Gumbyfan, at the very least.
Had one experience with Rick.
I called him about two months ago. I asked him about fees/how it would work to sell some of my PSA graded packs/ raw packs/ autos etc. and a few other items.
Actually prefer somebody else do it rather than me and still do.
He was short, seemed bothered by the question about fees/etc. I assumed he thought I was talking 5.00 cello packs or something and didn't want to bother. So I took the hint and just decided to try and do it myself for the time being. As you can see below some of those auctions brought pretty good money.
Just my two cents and have no ill feelings towards him at all. Just my experience.
** Working on the following sets-2013 Spectra Football Hall of Fame 50th Anniversary Autograph set, 2015 Spectra Football Illustrious Legends Autograph set, 2014-15 Hall of Fame Heroes autograph set. **
If I have this understood correctly, only 62 transactions on 203 items, but you got charged 203 times for the paypal fee?
That, I believe, is wrong. You SHOULD only be charged for 62 transactions but with the approach made you have to understand that it probably wasn't the best way to do it...
If only 62 transactions were made, and you were charged a fee that normally is only charged on each auction 203 times - you should not be charged that fee and a refund should be issued - just my 2 cents
On the invoice from Rick I didn't have that problem - I only got charged for the amount of auctions put up, but I did not have any 'lot' items except for some cards that were supposed to be put up at auction.
Edit to add:
I've had absolutely no problems with Rick but do not agree with this Paypal deal. If there were only 62 transactions - you should only be charged 62 times.
And even today he sends me a PM about the current situation of one of my consignments... He told me to call so he could explain it in full, I guarantee you these major auction houses would never do that, I've tried e-mailing some of them about some bigger items I've had and don't even get responses, let alone the head honcho explaining the situation in full on the phone to make sure you know what is going on. Sorry you had a bad experience, but mine with him has been nothing but positive... I've literally had items sell for double what I would have estimated them to sell for through him and over-all came out extremely ahead.
Comments
Total sales price of $3,653.10
These ended mid week and on Friday. I received a check today for $3,146.04
That's 86% of the gross price. What did I do exactly. Well I packed them up and sent 2 day Priority.
I gave up what exactly? 5-6%?
So for $200 basically I listed nothing, didn't answer a question, didn't send a total price, didn't worry about collecting money, opening unpaid item cases, didn't pack anything, didn't ship anything.
I have zero issue with paying a consignor fee. There I's nothing better. Whether it's Probstein, PWCC, whomever. If you want to move product I wouldn't do it yourself. I'm selling 200-300 items a month. I would never go to it on my own again.
Secondly, I believe these incredible prices are realized by the consignors because there is almost 100% certainty there will never be an issue with getting your items in a couple days. Also I know that returns are never an issue as a buyer. There should never be a worry shen buying from the 2 biggest consignors.
There are always so many posts about this topic. IMO someone should bid what they feel the card is worth and what they are willing to spend period. If you get it for less great, if it goes for a huge price and it was bid up high, well the person probably put too high of a bid in. Sure EBay must have a percentage if items that get schill bid. But it doesn't seem possible that all these examples and posts around here are schill bids. I think it's more probably items that may not get paid for than schills. But again if it is a schill why did someone bid so high to begin with?
I think a lot of times too buyers will bid lots of times to scare away other buyers to make it look like schill bidding.
And also we have to take into account ignorance on the buyers part. How many people all of sudden just start buying cards not understanding EBay or the cards industry? I know when I got into cards back in 2008, I overpaid for items, bought a few trimmed cards and resealed packs.
Does schill bidding go on? Yes absolutely, I just think all the examples and record prices can't be soley blamed on that. There are many other reasons...
iPhone.
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
<< <i>miconelegacy do you bid on your consignments? >>
No. I agree with what Paul said about Auction Houses.
I don't buy much from auction houses as there never seems to be average prices. But that could also have a bit to do with exposure. Same reason I think the consignors get more for their items they sell.
Personally I have paid more for an item a little bit for convenience. But some of these have been outrageous.
We are seeing record prices all around. Some of the examples have to be schill bidding. When buying I bid what I am comfortable with.
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
Been there.
Over the last week, I've been watching a bidder with like half a feedback, actually 5, go after my targets and outbid me every time. That does drive the price wacko in some cases.
I posted for a detailed example for the OP's benefit and anyone on the fence about consigning. As you can read I mentioned the top 2 consignors in my post not just Probstein.
And as far as Gumbyfan's post, I'm sorry he had a bad experience. That was posted what 4 days ago? I think the OP that started the thread was interested in learning about consigning. I guess my post didn't help in that aspect.
What I do know is people like examples and like facts. I'll assume the role of brown noser or lapdance man or whatever you would like to call me.
Thanks suneel4cash!
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
<< <i>I had 60 items end last week ranging from .99 to $960.
Total sales price of $3,653.10
These ended mid week and on Friday. I received a check today for $3,146.04
That's 86% of the gross price. What did I do exactly. Well I packed them up and sent 2 day Priority.
I gave up what exactly? 5-6%?
So for $200 basically I listed nothing, didn't answer a question, didn't send a total price, didn't worry about collecting money, opening unpaid item cases, didn't pack anything, didn't ship anything.
I have zero issue with paying a consignor fee. There I's nothing better. Whether it's Probstein, PWCC, whomever. If you want to move product I wouldn't do it yourself. I'm selling 200-300 items a month. I would never go to it on my own again. >>
Well, I'm going to go ahead and guess that your listings were given a little more attention by Rick. When I mailed out the stuff I wanted sold, I sent a rather long PM explaining what I had sent along with an offer to send him the electronic version of the 7 page packing list I included with the stuff I sent. He didn't respond with any interest in getting the excel file, and said he would let me know when the stuff arrived.
Here's a quick breakdown of what I sent and how I wanted them listed:
I sent a total of 170 graded cards to be sold individually, 50 graded cards to be sold in 1 lot, 56 raw singles, 2 books that I got with PSA memberships over the years, 10 mini baseball pennants from the '70s that I wanted listed individually, 24 separate sealed issues of SMRs, an original Michael Jordan "Wings" Nike poster, 10 music posters and some signed and unsigned music memorabilia. I'll stick with the sports stuff here since this isn't a music board. Before someone points out that Rick usually doesn't sell music stuff, I'll note that I sent a PM and asked if he was willing to sell the stuff before pulling things out of storage and he said yes.
Here's some more detail:
He individually listed 136 of the 170 graded cards that were to be sold individually and the rest were put in lots. He listed 123 of those cards the same day he received my cards. Here's an example of one of the listings. You would think that for a 1977 Topps PSA 10 that is a pop 5, the player's name would be spelled correctly. Not the end of the world, but I should have been more concerned when I saw it. It was too late to have it corrected since it already had bids, so I just let it ride. Still, it should have been a red flag for what was to come.
I noticed that a few of the cards that I wanted listed individually were held back along with the 50 card lot of cards from the same player. Concerned that there might be a chance that they would be included in lots, I sent a PM and made it pretty clear that 3 specific cards that weren't already listed needed to be listed individually instead of in lots because they were low pop, higher value cards. One of those cards was a Pop 2 PSA 10 from the 1991 Topps Desert Shield set. Anyone following that set knows that a Pop 2 common should usually sell pretty strongly since there are a bunch of guys building that set. In my note to Rick I noted that it was a Pop 2, but it was not noted in the listing title. This seems pretty basic to me. link A quick search of Rick's listings shows there are 55 items that currently have "Pop 2" in the title. Why wasn't that done for this listing? My guess is that Rick was disinterested because he just saw it as another common card that wasn't worth his time.
One of the other 3 cards I send Rick a PM about in order to note that this specific cards needed to be listed individually was a card that is in 2 different master player registry sets and only has a handful of graded examples. He replied to tell me they would be listed individually. If eBay still had the closed listings available for me to link to, I would show you the 11 card lot of Robin Yount cards he included it in. Again, I think he wasn't aware of what the card was so rather than take the word of the person who did, he just threw it in a lot with 10 other cards. To his credit, when I pointed this out after he listed it, he did pull the listing and said he would relist.
The lot of 50 graded cards that I wanted sold in 1 lot was sold as 2 lots of 24 cards and 2 individual listings. He charged more for shipping each of those 24 card lots than it would have cost to ship all 50 cards in one flat rate box. Please try to tell me that didn't cut into my take. Buyers factor shipping costs into their bids. I'm sure the USPS appreciates Rick's disregard of my wishes for these cards.
Of the 56 raw singles I sent, 53 were somewhat valuable Brett Favre inserts and parallels. I did quite a bit of research before deciding which cards I wanted auctioned off. Some of these inserts were pretty obscure, so rather than just send a stack of cards in toploads, I put each card in a penny sleeve, then a topload, then it's own individual team bag with a label so that it would be easier for each card to be listed without additional research being done. I explained this in my PM to Rick and the packing list had each card listed separately to make it very easy to list the cards. Rather than list each of the Favre cards individually, he listed 4 lots - 14, 14, 14, 10. (Ummm...for those of you keeping track at home, 14+14+14+10= 52 cards...I never did ask what happened to the 53rd card). On top of that, each lot didn't even have a list of the cards that were included in the lot, instead, Rick just scanned the cards in the team bags with my labels showing. Again, since eBay doesn't have the unsold listings available anymore, I can't link you to them. I can, however, show you what the scans looked like because I grabbed them from the listings:
I sent Rick a PM indicating these needed to be listed separately because there are actually some pretty decent inserts in the lot. He pulled the listings and relisted them individually. The 53rd card reappeared, thankfully. One of the raw cards was a 1998 Absolute Tandems card featuring Favre & another quarterback people may have heard of named Peyton Manning. Here's a link to the listing. Notice the title. Also, the listing originally only had a scan of the front of the card. I immediately contacted him to say that Manning's name needed to be in the title and a scan of the back added since it's his rookie year and since it would probably sell a lot better with people being able to find it when they search for his cards. Well, someone bid on the card between the time I contacted him to have the listing corrected and when he got around to fixing it. Rather than cancel the bid and correct it properly, it was just added as a footnote to the listing. It's good to know that he's still actively accepting CONSIGNMENTS!!! - even when doing a really poor job at fixing incomplete listings. Now, I wouldn't be nearly as bothered by this if it wasn't for these other listings: Brett Favre / Rickey Watters Brett Favre / Michael Jordan / Perry Carter - (even though it was Michael Jackson, not Jordan, but why split those hairs?
The rest of the stuff was clearly not worth his time.
He took the 10 pennants from the 70's and listed them with 1 scan. I am confident that if each one was listed separately, I would've seen more money. Older logos for just about every team in the lot makes those little pennants collectable. "Yankees Tigers Indians White Sox +" Nobody collects the Red Sox, I guess. (or the Orioles, A's, Twins, Royals or Angels)
My favorite listing of them all was the 1 lot of 24 SMRs that he listed. Again, I expected them to be listed individually. Instead, the lot of 24 sealed magazines sold for $1.79. No listing of the magazines that were included in the lot. Here's a link to the listing. I'm gonna go ahead and speculate that 99.9% of people looking for Elvis Presley stuff on eBay isn't doing a search for "Presley" absent the word "Elvis". Just sayin'.
Wrapping up the sports stuff, the 2 PSA membership books were listed in a lot. Again, why these two items weren't listed individually is beyond me. A final link on the subject.
Based on the above, it's tough to tell how much money was left on the table just due to the poor listings.
Coupled with the $90.88 that I calculated he overcharged on fees (charged 206 times for the individual paypal transaction fee of $.30 that he was only charged 62 times = $43.20. Taking the shipping final value fees of $.28 for each of the 206 listings which I believe should've been paid out of the shipping fees he charges is another $57.68...put those totals ($100.88) in the pre-commission column and take his commission out and I'm looking at an additional $90.88 in my pocket, as opposed to padding his).
Now, being fully transparent, after I was told that he is "not in business to put up items that sell for $6.00", I apologized that my items were below his standard and instructed him to please return the handful of things he hadn't listed back to me and to deduct the postage from my profit. He shipped them back on his dime. Now, I would have expected that the tube of posters would have been taped shut again before being shipped, but I guess that was too much to ask. When I got the tube back, the plastic tube end was barely hanging on and the posters inside must have come out while in transit and jammed back into the tube carelessly, because I don't think Rick would go to that extreme to damage my items before shipping them back. While I'm not happy with the service I received, I'm not going to assume or accuse him of intentionally damaging my goods.
In the end, it was a lesson learned for me. Here's the whole phrase that put me on the sidelines for the whole consignment deal - "I'm a nice guy but I can't believe we are having this conversation, i put up LOADS of your inventory almost that are below our standards and I didn't say BOO to you about it...I'm not in business to put up items that sell for $6.00"
For the amount of time I had to put in during the process to try to do everything I could to maximize my returns, I should have just listed them myself.
<< <i>"I'm a nice guy but I can't believe we are having this conversation, i put up LOADS of your inventory almost that are below our standards and I didn't say BOO to you about it...I'm not in business to put up items that sell for $6.00" >>
Rick, for you to make this statement in light of all the kudos that many members have given you is ridiculous. You've gotten a LOT of free publicity in this forum, which in my opinion should never have been allowed to continue. Perhaps in the middle of all that fee put you should have stepped in at some point and let the membership know what was acceptable for you in the way of consignments. Shame on you for your treatment of Craig's collection.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
Consignment to me is something you do if you don't want to do the work. You pay someone else to do it for you. When they don't want to do the work either, what is the point? lol
Sloppy is the term I would use for how my items (and ultimately myself) were treated; (all shipments included packing list)
First consignment went out with several standard sized PSA cards and a few "tall boys". Standard sized items were listed and not the larger ones. After a day or two, called Rick and was told the items were missed when unpacking box, but were soon found, listed and sold.
All items sold, prices were good but not anything to be excited about. Received funds quickly, seemed like a good deal despite the tall boys being overlooked. No harm, no foul.
Was happy enough that I recommended Rick to a fellow collector who wanted to sell off some cards, but didn't want to list them himself.
At the same time Rick was nice enough to submit some cards to PSA for me for a fair price as I had let my membership lapse.
There might have been a second consignment that went well. One card from a PSA submission was returned to me that was not mine, shipped back to Rick.
The last consignment a set of 10 Minnesota Twins matchbooks disappeared. First I was told that they would be found, more emails followed asking how they were packed, then I was told they never got them. When I politely asked for some kind of consideration, I stated that I felt the set was worth about $100.00 (I was thinking half of that would be fair) Rick said he was not going to discuss it, and was going to speak to a lawyer friend of his, he said my packing list meant nothing. He then made some rather sad comments on my items low value and that he had done me a great favor in submitting cards for me to PSA. There also was at least one item that didn't sell that was never returned to me (J publishing Warren Spahn photo). I dropped the issue.
I decided to renew my membership with PSA, do my own submissions and auction off my own items. I was very offended at Rick's comments and would never consign with him or bid on any of his auctions. I got the feeling that my business would not be missed.
Joe
It was mentioned before in regards to the consigned 1960 PSA 8's, but I really dislike the practice of listing the consigned cards to end at the exact same time.
There are auctions ending tonight whereby there are 2 of the same card, same grade, ending at the exact same time. That will not maximize profit.
I would prefer the opportunity that if I lose the first, I'd go higher on the 2nd. At least spread them a minute apart.
Card bull market still in high gear. I was 3 for 50 last night and I bid over VCP in most cases. Strong bids were just blown away.
<< <i>You would think that for a 1977 Topps PSA 10 that is a pop 5, the player's name would be spelled correctly. >>
<< <i>I'm gonna go ahead and speculate that 99.9% of people looking for Elvis Presley stuff on eBay isn't doing a search for "Presley" absent the word "Elvis". >>
<< <i>each lot didn't even have a list of the cards that were included in the lot >>
<< <i>I would have expected that the tube of posters would have been taped shut again before being shipped >>
<< <i>the $90.88 that I calculated he overcharged on fees >>
This just seems like nitpicking.
Are you kidding ? Granted, people make mistakes, but for a low pop mis-spell. That costs $$$
Every morning, I do a search for new listings for a few players and search by name. If Schmidt it spelled Schmitt, it's
not going to show up and I'll never find it and will not be part of the bidding festivities. It's why people load up the title
with RC and Rookie, ... so that it's search-able.
If it's a low pop card, you put something like POP 1 of 4 in the title. That's a no brainer. Particularly when the consignor/customer requests it.
I'm surprised that 76 Ryan does not contain POP 1 of 5 in the title.
EDIT: Spelling
I am 2 for 2 with Rick,no problems on either deal.For me I will proably never sell anything myself again.
My first package was only 12 psa cards,9 of 12 went above vcp,2 right at and last one was 4 bucks under,nice results
and they were not really high end cards,$2-400 cards.The last sub went even better with a few helmets and cards,the
night after auction was over $$ was in paypal,service with a smile for me,thanks again Rick! Just my 2cents.
Needs'
1972 Football-9's high#'s
1965 Football-8's
1958 Topps FB-7-8
I also tested the water with Rick and was very pleased...
I only sent 22 cards, but he certainly sold higher than I would have or even tried...
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
That being said, I have used Rick and had absolutely zero problems. I normally send him a list of what I am sending before I send it off. I just like to make sure everything is good to list with him. It would not offend me if he chose not to list something or told me to hold onto something he did not want to list, but he has never said that to me.
In my opinion if you want to maximize profits with a consigner it should be over $100. If you can get an extra $5-10 because of exposure you are much better off having someone else do it for you. If it sells for under $50 it most likely is something I just wanted to get off my desk and ultimately the 15-20% I am paying is just convenience. It is like paying for a table at a show. Cost of doing business.
People like PWCC and Rick cannot do this for free and I will gladly pay to not label, pack and drive to the post office 3 times per week.
T222's PSA 1 or better
The item sold for over four figures and he even overnighted the check for me.
I would do business with him any day of the week.
-------------------
On a side note, is it really worth it to list SMR's individually? You might clear a dollar after all the fees.
Not really worth the time to do that in my opinion.
It costs a consignment house the same to do all of the above whether the item sells for $1.00, $10.00, or $100.00. With higher priced items there's enough money left over after fees to split up fairly so both the consignor and seller can profit from the sale. If you sell garbage for $6 and under almost all the money goes to shipping expenses and Ebay and PayPal fees.
He had a bunch of "petty" items of mine that I sent, listed them with out complaint and they sold for what I expected them to (Cheap, little +$10 here, +$5 here). - Just something that I threw in with this big order. The big item I sent was a vintage Ali glove /w auto... That commanded almost $700... Of which I got about $550 for the item... Which is more than I would have got ever had I sent it to jsa or psa, and then sold it myself.
Yeah, some of the listings weren't "done" so well, but it was on all the low dollar items that I just expected to be thrown up and done.
For instance, I sent him some 1959 wacky plaks, I couldn't get $50 for the low on the forums... At auction with him it sold for $125.
So yeah, few smaller items neglected, but it didn't bother me, because A: I'm not a nit-picker, B: I was too lazy to list the items at the time c: enough of the items got much higher than I could have got that it more than made up for the few bucks I missed.
Also I wasn't aware of the shipping FVF, but whatever, every time he sends a message it says "net" - so you know that there will be fees... If you didn't ask to find out what they were that is your fault imo.
We all cannot have top quality, high dollar cards that insure high priority in listing them but it sure would be nice to know even the lesser value cards get the same respect and attention to detail as these higher dollar cards do. Looking at the examples Craig posted, it appears to me that sloppy listings and lack of attention to detail is a definite possibility and not something the lesser value cards I have for sale would do well with if this happen to them. Its just not worth the headache to me. I will take them to the next Rosemont show and work a trade and get something in return that isnt a kick to the seed bag!
Count me as a lost sale to the consigners!
My 300-lot consignment finished around 11:30PM on May 3rd and I had Rick's check in my mailbox on May 7th. That was
impressive.
I've been reading the good and bad experiences that have been posted in this thread so far. I may be able to offer a more
unique perspective because I have actually been to Rick's work site and have seen his operation first-hand.
My impression is that Rick works with a tremendous volume of items each week. Based on what I saw I would think he's probably
adding somewhere between 3000-5000 new listings each week PLUS he also has to deal with hundreds of other items that need to
be graded, authenticated, etc. prior to being listed. At such volumes I am sure that mistakes can happen.
Rick has a small staff working with him, and though self-sufficient it seemed to me that often they would verify activities involving work
with items of significant value directly with Rick. Some might call that micro-management that limits the scale, but I thought it was kind
of reassuring to have the head of the whole operation personally aware of what happens with the significant items his business has
taken responsibility for.
Given the volume of items he is working with I understand the approach of having a minimal description in the item listings. That probably also
adds support for giving common ending time for groups of items from the same consignor (it allows bulk submission). At the same time, when I
identified several items that had specific significant in my 300-lot group he took the time to note these details (e.g. low pop, higher value items,
etc.) and the listings for those items reflected the notes I provided.
One of the things I found most impressive was the speed at which communication with Rick seems to happen. It seemed to me that it was never
took more than a few hours to get a reply or follow-up from Rick when I made any inquiries. And he was also prompt about proactively messaging
me if he needed additional information.
Look, I truly believe that the majority of people who deal with Rick have had similar experiences to my own. He's human too, so I am sure that
some of the reports of problems are not without some merit. However, having met Rick personally and worked with him several times I'd say that
reports of him being abrasive or non-responsive are highly out of character for him. And these reports about "low dollar items" being less welcome
do not accurately reflect my experience. More than 1/2 of my lots in this last group sold for less than $15. Knowing Rick I would think that the way
someone interpreted what he said about "low dollar items" was probably much harsher than the way it was explained by Rick.
My best advice to any of you who is considering using a consignment organization to seel items on your behalf is to call Rick directly and get to know
the man. Ask him what his fee structure is. Ask him about some of the good experiences you've seen reported here. Ask him about some of the not
so good experiences you've seen reported here. Then weigh what you've heard and make an informed decision.
I'd say the same about Brent at PWCC too. He's always been both responsive and customer-focused whenever I've contacted him about items I've
purchased.
Nobody in the world is perfect, but my experience with both Rick and Brent is that they are honest, hard-working and reasonable people who do an above-
average job of servicing their customers.
Dave
In this case, a prior user made reference to reserves placed by consignors in place of a traditional eBay reserve. This is an ancient policy that we experimented with years ago but quickly abandoned. In total there were fewer than a dozen items that we approved for such reserves, and in all cases the reserve was met by a considerable margin. The practice was abandoned for a whole host of reasons, mostly logistical. The statement in the prior post by another member that 'we approved consignors placing reserves on any/all items' is completely false. It was only in highly unique situations, with highly volatile cards, that we approved this practice.
In recent times, the issue of fraudulent bidding (shill bidding) has become a common concern. We take the issue of shill bidding extremely seriously and it was the reference to this activity in prior posts that spurred our response here. Times have changed, and a greater level of discipline and conservatism is required to keep the bidding environment honest. We would not approve the reserve policy of the past in today's market because it lacks the transparency we now feel is a prerequisite to running our company.
Thanks to all to contribute to the message boards. As collectors, this is a best check-and-balance the hobby has going.
Best Regards,
Brent, PWCC
I appreciate that you are honest and admit to allowing shilling in your auctions in the past. Glad you don't allow it anymore.
~WalterSobchak
<< <i>Why would he hit the consigner for any kind of shipping fees? Doesn't he charge the buyer shipping? >>
More nitpicking!
less buyers than there were items (some buyers puchased multiple items).
While I understand that there are potential economies of scale like this, there is really no way to know up front that each item
won't be purchased by a separate buyer.
I'm just guessing, but it seems to me that if I were setting up a volume business it would be easier to just uniformly apply the
paypal fee on each item than to figure it out after the fact each time based on how many distinct buyers there were for the
items in the consignment.
Over time, perhaps I'd do some analysis to understand the average number of distinct buyers for a consignment and use that
info to reduce the Paypal fee so that it basically averaged out to a zero-sum game.
But I don't think that any deliberate "monkey-business" was intended
Dave
<< <i>And these reports about "low dollar items" being less welcome do not accurately reflect my experience. More than 1/2 of my lots in this last group sold for less than $15. Knowing Rick I would think that the way someone interpreted what he said about "low dollar items" was probably much harsher than the way it was explained by Rick. >>
"I'm a nice guy but I can't believe we are having this conversation, i put up LOADS of your inventory almost that are below our standards and I didn't say BOO to you about it...I'm not in business to put up items that sell for $6.00"
How else would you describe Rick's exact words about low dollar items?
<< <i>Why would he hit the consigner for any kind of shipping fees? Doesn't he charge the buyer shipping? >>
He charges $3.50 per item for shipping (and combines shipping for multiple items purchased). Since eBay sellers were abusing the system and overcharging for shipping to avoid final value fees on the final sale price, they started charging the same final value fee rate on the shipping charges. Rick passed those fees down to me. However, nobody can tell me that it costs $3.50 to ship a single graded card in a business such as Rick's. He's collecting additional money from the shipping fees he charges that should be used to pay the fee that is associated with charging it in the first place.
My point on this was that if the profit from shipping charges isn't passed along to Rick's customers, the fees for collecting those shipping charges should also not be passed along.
<< <i>I think he was commenting about the Paypal Fee because instead of having individual buyers for each item, there were actually
less buyers than there were items (some buyers puchased multiple items).
While I understand that there are potential economies of scale like this, there is really no way to know up front that each item
won't be purchased by a separate buyer.
I'm just guessing, but it seems to me that if I were setting up a volume business it would be easier to just uniformly apply the
paypal fee on each item than to figure it out after the fact each time based on how many distinct buyers there were for the
items in the consignment.
Over time, perhaps I'd do some analysis to understand the average number of distinct buyers for a consignment and use that
info to reduce the Paypal fee so that it basically averaged out to a zero-sum game.
But I don't think that any deliberate "monkey-business" was intended >>
Kind of what I'm guessing as well. He pays out the day after auctions ends, and we don't know if he ever has to file NPB claims, etc. For all I know he may have to relist items he sold for me and I already had the money in hand.
I can see where people think the additional fees should be explained up front, but I wasn't too worried about it when he list a bunch of stuff I didn't want anymore and I didn't lift a finger to list or ship. That would be true for all the consignors of course. What I don't know is - is it typical that they pay out to the consignee right away or do most consignors wait to ensure that they actually get paid for the listings?
Opportunism at its finest! Why people would do business with someone that does not break it down or use a contract is beyond me. I'm unimpressed.
<< <i>I think he was commenting about the Paypal Fee because instead of having individual buyers for each item, there were actually
less buyers than there were items (some buyers puchased multiple items).
While I understand that there are potential economies of scale like this, there is really no way to know up front that each item
won't be purchased by a separate buyer.
I'm just guessing, but it seems to me that if I were setting up a volume business it would be easier to just uniformly apply the
paypal fee on each item than to figure it out after the fact each time based on how many distinct buyers there were for the
items in the consignment.
Over time, perhaps I'd do some analysis to understand the average number of distinct buyers for a consignment and use that
info to reduce the Paypal fee so that it basically averaged out to a zero-sum game.
But I don't think that any deliberate "monkey-business" was intended >>
In a case such as mine, when it was pointed out that he passed along a specific fee 206 times when he was only charged that fee 62 times, an adjustment to his process should be made. Either that or be more transparent about what "net profit" means.
<< <i>Disclosing ALL the fees upfront in an email breaking them down for every consignor should be provided WITHOUT even asking EVERY TIME. Right?
Opportunism at its finest! Why people would do business with someone that does not break it down or use a contract is beyond me. I'm unimpressed. >>
I once emailed him regarding combined shipping on multiple items since it was not specified in his listing. I simply asked if he combined shipping charges on multiple items won, and if so after the $3.50 what would be the charge for each card won after that. His reply....."It depends." On what the price of gasoline. I didn't walk away....I ran.
<< <i>
<< <i>I think he was commenting about the Paypal Fee because instead of having individual buyers for each item, there were actually
less buyers than there were items (some buyers puchased multiple items).
While I understand that there are potential economies of scale like this, there is really no way to know up front that each item
won't be purchased by a separate buyer.
I'm just guessing, but it seems to me that if I were setting up a volume business it would be easier to just uniformly apply the
paypal fee on each item than to figure it out after the fact each time based on how many distinct buyers there were for the
items in the consignment.
Over time, perhaps I'd do some analysis to understand the average number of distinct buyers for a consignment and use that
info to reduce the Paypal fee so that it basically averaged out to a zero-sum game.
But I don't think that any deliberate "monkey-business" was intended >>
In a case such as mine, when it was pointed out that he passed along a specific fee 206 times when he was only charged that fee 62 times, an adjustment to his process should be made. Either that or be more transparent about what "net profit" means. >>
Agreed. Even using the term "net profits" insinuates that you will NOT be overcharged for anything. That is the entire point of using the term "net profit". If you are paying fees that were not there, then you are NOT receiving your end of the bargain, end of story.
Had one experience with Rick.
I called him about two months ago. I asked him about fees/how it would work to sell some of my PSA graded packs/ raw packs/ autos etc. and a few other items.
Actually prefer somebody else do it rather than me and still do.
He was short, seemed bothered by the question about fees/etc. I assumed he thought I was talking 5.00 cello packs or something and didn't want to bother. So I took the hint and just decided to try and do it myself for the time being. As you can see below some of those auctions brought pretty good money.
Just my two cents and have no ill feelings towards him at all. Just my experience.
my closed ebay auctions
<< <i>Sean speaking for Rick...lol >>
Have you considered suing your brains for nonsupport?
If I have this understood correctly, only 62 transactions on 203 items, but you got charged 203 times for the paypal fee?
That, I believe, is wrong. You SHOULD only be charged for 62 transactions but with the approach made you have to understand that it probably wasn't the best way to do it...
If only 62 transactions were made, and you were charged a fee that normally is only charged on each auction 203 times - you should not be charged that fee and a refund should be issued - just my 2 cents
On the invoice from Rick I didn't have that problem - I only got charged for the amount of auctions put up, but I did not have any 'lot' items except for some cards that were supposed to be put up at auction.
Edit to add:
I've had absolutely no problems with Rick but do not agree with this Paypal deal. If there were only 62 transactions - you should only be charged 62 times.
And even today he sends me a PM about the current situation of one of my consignments... He told me to call so he could explain it in full, I guarantee you these major auction houses would never do that, I've tried e-mailing some of them about some bigger items I've had and don't even get responses, let alone the head honcho explaining the situation in full on the phone to make sure you know what is going on. Sorry you had a bad experience, but mine with him has been nothing but positive... I've literally had items sell for double what I would have estimated them to sell for through him and over-all came out extremely ahead.
CDsNuts, 1/9/15
He is obviously either overworked or understaffed
He needs to set a firm minimum value limit and establish a clear fee structure, I'm guessing that be will be doing both
1987 topps BGS 9.5 Anthony Munoz...
When Rick sold it, it was a $20 card...
you just never know...
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
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<< <i>I thought I had a $2 card...
1987 topps BGS 9.5 Anthony Munoz...
When Rick sold it, it was a $20 card...
you just never know... >>
With graded cards you just never know. I have had this happen a few times for me too when I posted some cards I thought were low dollar items on Ebay.