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GOLD AND SILVER, ECONOMIC NEWS, COINS, 2016

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    pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,504 ✭✭✭
    I was prowling the Provident Metals web site and found this

    Food

    Shelf life of 25 years. Wonder if it will go up like PMs too.
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    aj2525raj2525r Posts: 120 ✭✭
    Hello,

    I read with some alarm the Jim Willie article linked by Roadrunner.

    I tried to check his quoted statistics about railway intermodal traffic. The AAR.org website does not agree with Mr. Willie.

    Other things to occupy my limited time but I do not know where his data comes from.

    I still call my accumulation my collection!
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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dropping the labor participation rate continues to be a windfall for the administration in lowering the "official" unemployment rate. Last month was the greatest drop
    in participation in 30 yrs. Way to go! 8.3% unemployment! How much more can participation be shrunk before the Nov elections?

    Link

    February 3, 2012, 10:13 am

    By FLOYD NORRIS

    How many jobs did the American economy add in January?
    *
    The Labor Department estimated on Friday that the economy gained 243,000 jobs.
    *
    The department also estimated that the economy lost 2,689,000 jobs in the month.

    The difference in the two numbers is in seasonal adjustment. Employment always falls in January, as temporary Christmas jobs end. So the government applies seasonal adjustment factors in an effort to discern the real trend of the economy apart from seasonal fluctuations. The actual survey showed the big loss in jobs. The seasonal adjustments produced the reported gain of 243,000 jobs.

    A reason to doubt the number is that there has been a tendency in this cycle for the seasonal factors to overstate moves, in both directions. Labor mobility is down, as fewer workers quit to seek better jobs and employers both hire and fire fewer people than they used to do. If the seasonal adjustment was too large, then the gain should be smaller.


    ______________

    Nice COT report today where the commercials (banks) sold off >16,000 long contracts this week and added >13,000 shorts. They apparently knew what was coming by the end of this week and set up accordingly.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,383 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good link, thanks roadrunner. Tends to make one cynical about this administration.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    OnlyGoldIsMoneyOnlyGoldIsMoney Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Iran, i believe once they have nuclear weapons, are crazy enough to use them. They already stated they want to wipe out Israel off the face of the earth. Not so much the Iranian people but more so their leaders wish this. However, I believe Israel will strike first even before Iran will have such capabilities. >>



    Israel was facing annhilation in 1967 and wisely struck first. This time they have already struck first - just not conventionally.
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    ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 5,411 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Good link, thanks roadrunner. Tends to make one cynical about this administration. >>


    You weren't already? I know I was a long time ago...
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    CCC2010CCC2010 Posts: 1,987 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Iran, i believe once they have nuclear weapons, are crazy enough to use them. They already stated they want to wipe out Israel off the face of the earth. Not so much the Iranian people but more so their leaders wish this. However, I believe Israel will strike first even before Iran will have such capabilities. >>



    Israel was facing annhilation in 1967 and wisely struck first. This time they have already struck first - just not conventionally. >>



    It was mentioned in some news sector today that its not If Israel does a pre-emptive attack on Iran but rather its a matter of When Israel would do so.... When this happens what will be the affect of this middle east conflict that could possibly affect the US as well because they say that Iran can activate its sleeper cells here in the US and attack us as a form of retaliation with our being allies with Israel...with regards to PM prices? No effect...little effectimage
    References:Coinsarefun,DerryB,Bloodman,Zubie,Gerard,Skyman,Bestclser1,Lakesammman,Yellowkid,PerryHall,Piecesofme,HTubbs,grote15
    Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
    Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
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    pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,504 ✭✭✭
    Tax Happy


    The "big box" retailers want the small business exemption "as low as possible" to keep "competitors from growing up and competing against them," Johnson said in an interview on Tuesday.

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    Some pundits think that among the many choices America faces, two are the paths that Greece has taken, and a second is that of Japan. The riots in Greece are getting plenty of airplay. This commentator has this bit about the Greece economy and third world status.
    from
    http://247wallst.com/2012/02/13/greece-becomes-a-third-world-country/
    link

    >>
    Greece’s GDP is among the smallest in Europe — $305 billion last year. But, at the rate that its economy is shrinking, that number will be closer to the GDP of Egypt in the next two years. Another slip at the 6% contraction rate — about what it is now — could press Greece’s GDP to the size of Nigeria’s in 2016 or 2017.
    >>

    The newer news is 10 trillion yen added to Bank of Japan's quantitative easy program in what many are saying is a surprise move. Japanese stocks stage a modest rally, while the yen drops, with gold down a tad too, so Japan isn't driving the gold bus. Platinum down also, so they aren't even driving that bus anymore like they were for many years. Japan already has a federal debt far larger than the U.S. (like 10 years down the road larger) and the a demographic problem of a rapidly aging average population with no immigration and fewer and fewer babies. As the economic morass deepens, fewer and fewer young people think about or want to have kids.
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    We may be combining the paths and doing it the American way
    NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac
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    No worries, be happy! We'll just tax the rich more and our economy will prosper. It's getting to the point of hilarious. image

    Oil is at 101.21 now. Gold $1718.12

    In physical metals and cash now. When the stock market retraces (within 4 weeks) back in, all Metal stocks.

    Have a great Tuesday all.
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    57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭
    a response to MF Global...from Asia

    MA mantra...Singapore

    image
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    1jester1jester Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭
    robo-signing foreclosure deal lets all the bankstas off scot-free.

    One excellent rant:

    The only thing that will cut it, is 50 AG's going after all these criminals in a RICO with PRISON sentences for the conspirators and full recovery of ALL (est 46 TRILLION DOLLARS+) looted from the country and the world from these crimes. Anything short means crime pays for the criminals, running, I mean ruining, our country and other countries. These FELONY CRIMINAL ACTS have forced people into homelessness, have decreased their home values by 40% through crime. The crimes have wiped away their businesses and jobs in illegal ANTITRUST VIOLATIONS and market rigging on a scale worldwide never before attempted. I am surprised with the FACTUAL EVIDENCE of the CRIMES, the AG's did not go for the Death Penalty for the thousands of crimes committed. This economic terrorism crime legally has been defined in Geneva and other Law as a WAR CRIME and is known as ECONOMIC TERRORISM. This form of warfare depresses and slowly kills a population through CRIMINAL ACTS to bk their countries, such as the housing market collapse, the collapse of the banking and auto, the collapse of US Small Businesses all achieved through criminal acts, all have gone unprosecuted in the courts and prosecutorial offices. These crimes have been committed upon the CITIZENS OF THE US AND WORLD, everybody’s nest egg home they invested in has been deflated by 50% by CRIME, their 401’s, stocks etc. and the criminals are being allowed to settle CRIMINAL WRONGDOING with a parking ticket fine and the PEOPLE ARE GETTING WHOLLY SCR*WED and the money the lost is being kept by the crooks who keep robbing them blind.

    All AG's who signed this “deal” are guilty of aiding and abetting a felony criminal RICO Cartel aka the US Gov and their Corporate Masters that Coupéd the country and bought the body politic. The Full Coup on the US, into toto, came with the ILLEGAL presidency of George Bush, which was decided by your Supreme Court Jesters who usurped the Peoples vote with their 5-4 decision of our decider. The Supreme Court Criminals should be charged with TREASON and one day most likely they will be tried. The Supreme’s second Treason usurping the Peoples vote has come in their attempt to sell off the body politic and wholly disregard the peoples vote by selling votes to their Corp Masters via the TREASONOUS CITIZENS UN-UNITED ILLEGAL RULING.
    Since the Bush v. Gore election treason anointing the FOX to the HENHOUSE, all three branches of the US Gov and the US Pravda Press were quickly seized and good regulators and prosecutors and politicians were replaced with ones working for the Criminal Cartel (mostly with bought law degrees). Top Down our government is now corrupt and so this “deal” by the AG illustrates how the corrupt are making deals with the corrupt, regulating the corrupt, prosecuting the corrupt, which all equals the People getting scre*wed.
    The only way to stop a coup is to TOPPLE IT HEAD DOWN and BOTTOM UP and start anew. Fresh faces and new ideas through a REBOOTING OF ALL CONGRESS AND THE THREE BRANCHES, including the MILITARY, if they fail to ARREST OUR GOV LEADERS FOR TREASON AND MORE and start turning on the People, as has been done recently in the OWS movement. If the military fails to Arrest our leaders the PEOPLE must ARREST them and the PEOPLE MUST NOT ACCEPT and plea out of these felonies crimes, especially for paltry penalties, as that is not Justice, just more crime. DEMAND FULL RECOVERY OF EVERY LAST CENT STOLEN THROUGH THESE CRIMES, SEIZE THEIR COMPANIES AND PERSONAL ASSETS THROUGH RICO AND STOP IT HERE AND NOW. If the AG's fail to prosecute the crimes we must ARREST THEM TOO.
    The Government apparently is Wholly Corrupted and the AG’s are working to aid and abet the Wall Street Criminals and help them evade prosecution and prison. Yet, if you and I walked into a bank and forged documents, we would be in prison. Yet, they forged millions of loans, yours included and the failure of the AG to prosecute these felonies to the fullest extent of the law, especially the massive bank and housing frauds committed and instead attempt to get their friends GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARDS, proves who they work for, the Criminal RICO Org. Note, everyone is just allowing them to walk off with the loot, no one is asking for every cent back???
    The DOJ instead should be named the Department of InJustice, as they are in the bank "protection racket" not the consumer protection business. This paltry and ILLEGAL agreement in lieu of investigations and FULL RECOVERY OF THE STOLEN LOOT, is an attempt to exculpate the guilty from PRISON for their CRIMES AGAINST THE PEOPLE and is more commonly referred to as FELONY CRIMINAL AIDING AND ABETTING, OBSTRUCTION of JUSTICE, VIOLATION OF PUBLIC OFFICE, ALL FELONY CRIMES and all a COMPLETE F-ING of the PEOPLE.

    Oh where oh where is HoldOff Holder, where is a RICO with Market Rigging, Fraud, Forgery, Felony Violations of Public Offices as some of the predicate acts and DEMAND FOR FULL RECOVERY OF THE $46 TRILLION STOLEN FROM THE PEOPLE. He held off even a Truth Commission into the 9/11 and War Crimes of Bush et al. while keeping the PEOPLE with INTENT, POOR and DISTRAUGHT whilst his PALS ON WALL STREET/GREED STREET/FRAUD STREET carted off TRILLIONS and this hokey deal is proof of Holder and the DOInJustice are part of the criminal RICO Org. Keep in mind that all RICO cases have elements of government corruption, bought judges, bought prosecutors, bought regulators, bought cops, as the key to effectively running a criminal RICO org is the ability to stave off prosecution for the crimes committed. Here we have a total takeover of the government top down and thus a Criminal Cartel operates at will against the People
    Eric HoldOffHolder and ObamaRenegOrama have fooled the last bit of the PEOPLE, not, their jiggy is up and this “deal” is the proof of who the DOJ really works for. Not one person in Jail on the largest financial crime in US/World History in over 3 years and HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE INTENTIONALLY SCRE*WED OUT OF THEIR HOME VALUES, THEIR HOME EQUITIES, THEIR PENSIONS, THEIR COUNTRIES, THEIR COMPANIES, THEIR JOBS and more, yet I forsee a 10 MILLION MAN MARCH COMING SOON ON WASHINGTON. They are readying the Army to TURN ON AMERICANS (mostly made up of non Americans) already, as AMERICANS ARE POUNDING ON THE DOORS AS THEY WANT THEIR STOLEN FUNDS BACK, and ALL OF IT, not a few billion but 46 TRILLION not a penny less and perhaps a lot more.
    This criminal deal is in violation of public office rules and sworn oath to uphold the law and protect the people, by the highest law officers in the country, perhaps in the world and proves further that the US GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN COUPED BY A CRIMINAL RICO ORGANIZATION. The fox will not regulate the fox, prosecute the fox or recover the stolen funds from hundreds of millions of people against the fox, all the while giving the appearance that they have through BOGUS deals like this to placate the Sheep. And so, the bloodbath in the henhouse continues, until the sly hunter abounds and the foxes hear not the sound of...
    The hens are awake, they see the fox is not a sheep and they too must rise to root out the foxes, with the aid of sly hunter. I would not want to be on their side today, as the whole world knows their crimes, their names, where they work live, etc. it will soon be hard to hide. The truth is already out and these crimes, War, Economic, Torture and Conspiracy to Commit Treason, all have no Statute of Limitations and any ILLEGAL DEALS AS THIS ONE are shredded. Just like the Nuremberg Judges Trial where those who wrote laws to make it legal to seize peoples property, detain them to slave labor and then kill them were charged and convicted of war crimes. So sign away AG's it is your signature in history of what a bunch of sell out TRAITORS you really work for and your part in this TREASON upon the world. Fingerprint away AG's, your soul collector, Eliot.

    This deal is so paltry the states will be fighting over about $100 Million a piece for damages done to their states residents in the Trillions from CRIMINAL ACTS. This settlement will be like sharing a bag of peanuts on a packed puddle jumper and already states like Wisco are claiming Walker is misappropriating even the paltry cake paid to their state. For example, while Trillions were stolen from Wisco residents who all lost almost 40% on their nest egg home investments (and all US citizens, imagine the class action here of everyone suing for their home value losses caused by these banks crimes), losses totaling TRILLIONS in aggregate in Wisco alone, losses which are all DIRECTLY due to INTENTIONAL CRIMINAL ACTS by the banksters et al. Yet, we find that the AG’s have settled out for their banksters friends, the 5 biggest criminals in the housing scheme, for 140 Million for Wisco residents, one of the hardest hit states and letting the banksters off CRIMINAL CHARGES and PRISON with get out jail free cards procured by the Justice department, what better lawyers to have working on your settlement for you???
    See, now the criminals want no prosecution for their crimes and to hand you interest earned for the day on the Stolen Booty, as a settlement, and in Wisco they are already being accused of trying to squander the settlement dollars back to themselves and not the people. All that money carted off as they rigged, then bet on, the markets failing and your demise from the crimes.
    As your real estate deflated, your bank accounts were squeezed, your retirements and pensions disappeared, even some towns and countries, all again due to Market Rigging and Price Fixing FELONY CRIMES. Then the banksters pulled another crime claiming they too lost and to bail out homeowners they arranged to tax you with CARP aka TARP for their so called loses from their crimes and then took those monies borrowed on your children’s futures and instead bonused themselves in your face with another Mansion in the Sun, further bankrupting you and now your children, all the while their accounts flourished proportional to your losses. You can spot the .01% Fascist Sellout Criminals a mile away, these bloodsuckers net worth’s have profited in the TRILLIONS while your net worth’s were siphoned an identical amount. Suddenly we had a few mega billionaires overnight and billions more instantly became poverty ridden, homeless, jobless, starving and many dying.
    All AG's who inked this illegal deal should be charged with aiding and abetting a criminal RICO org. Funny how the AG's worked night and day on a plea deal for the criminals, where if you or I had forged a 50 dollar check to the bank, they would have prosecuted us to the fullest extent of the law and we would be serving time in the big house. This proves that our Gov is corrupt TOP DOWN and the rest is all lip service from our politicians and all colors of them, as they are all members of the same RICO org and directly benefit from your demise.
    Demand that the AG's reclaim every last cent from these banksters and their corp friends who committed these crimes, use RICO and strip them of every last penny personally and corporately and return ALL 46 TRILLION ++ back to the People. You would have expected a RICO by the Justice Department with all the FACTUAL EVIDENCE ALREADY UNCOVERED OF FELONY CRIMINAL ACTS and yet, instead, you discover the Department of InJustice run by Eric HoldOff. Remember the same guy who was going to instantly start a Truth Commission/Investigation of the Bush era War Crimes, I guess these crimes will be next in line, yeah right. Charge these AG's with failure to prosecute for the people, obstruction, aiding and abetting, and then get a forensic accountant to follow the money and RECOVER ALL MONIES LOOTED FROM THE PEOPLE BACK TO THE PEOPLE. Now that is a deal I can stomach without barfing on your shoes. Well what would really turn me on is CRIMINAL PROSECUTION TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW, for many of these crimes I fear the punishment is DEATH, and so be it and OFF WITH THEIR HEADS (“don’t do crime if can’t do time”). As always, GUILLOTINES FREE @ IVIEWIT.TV

    Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/why-the-foreclosure-deal-may-not-be-so-hot-after-all-20120209#ixzz1mXlmvTrt

    imageimageimage
    .....GOD
    image

    "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5

    "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,622 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Didnt read the rant. But included in the "got away scot-free" group should be the millions of people who have been living in their homes for 2-3 years without making a single payment.
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 5,411 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Didnt read the rant. But included in the "got away scot-free" group should be the millions of people who have been living in their homes for 2-3 years without making a single payment. >>


    Maybe, but there's nothing illegal about what they did in most cases, at least with respect to not-making a payment and stringing along the foreclosure process - that's just the way the system works.

    But the other rant is spot on although I didn't ready too much of it. A TON of fraud has taken place with this whole financial mess and NO ONE is going to jail for it! The only hope we have as a society is if we actually follow through and send people to jail when they orchestrate fraud like we have seen. That's the only way we'll have a deterrent to keeping it from happening again.
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    mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    Just some fines for the perps, no wrong doing here, move along.
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    WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭✭
    but there's nothing illegal about what they did in most cases

    Something like "breach of contract" comes to mind...
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    ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 5,411 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>but there's nothing illegal about what they did in most cases

    Something like "breach of contract" comes to mind... >>


    That's not illegal. It's just a breach of contract between two parties, and the contract usually covers what happens in a breach so even in a breach, the contract is still being executed per what was already mutually agreed upon.
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    bluelobsterbluelobster Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭
    A lot of people have been hurt in this recession, and it's always unfortunate for the human cost. It's only natural that many people want someone to blame, or "rant" about, other than themselves, of course. I believe for most of the populous, it's much better for the economy as a whole to quit haggling over technicalities like "robo signing" or many of procedural issues of the mortgage and get moving on these hopeless mortgages and start to clean them out, then and only then can the real estate market really recover, which would be the strongest and most positive economic impact for the average American, imo.
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    1jester1jester Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭
    I don't see how stealing someone's house (robo-signing) can be likened to a technicality. Not only is it blatant fraud and theft, but when practiced in a wholesale manner, as the author of the rant points out, it constitutes economic terrorism as defined by the Geneva Convention. What has resulted is the decimation of a population (ours). In the distant past, people used to rise up and at least make an attempt to fight the marauders. Now we don't even bat an eye.

    imageimageimage
    .....GOD
    image

    "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5

    "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
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    pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,504 ✭✭✭
    I do agree that all three branches of our government have been corrupted. The middle class is the only buffer now protecting the rich. Rich and poor don't get alone very well especially when its 99% VS 1%.
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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,383 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's the 0.01% that need to be scrutinized more closely.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    Here we go....... doing the class warfare thing. Just what the current politicians want us to think. It's never the fault of GOVERNMENT. THERE ARE MANY RICH PEOPLE WHO ARE HONEST and HARD WORKING!

    By the way, how would one define rich? Is rich getting the monthly food stamp credit card, and getting the monthly government child support check, and getting the monthly welfare check? By the standard of many countries, they are wealthy. Or are you rich if you work hard and pay taxes, and save alittle and come away with $200,000. Or are you rich if you have income over 1 million?

    Wealth is relative to life and liberty. Without liberty there can be no wealth. The western world is sinking right before our eyes, until we get term limits, the corruption and control will continue. Period. It really won't matter if we prosecute and send people to jail because the next patch will continue to corrupt the system to stay in power because they have NO fear of term limits.

    Got gold?




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    OnlyGoldIsMoneyOnlyGoldIsMoney Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Here we go....... doing the class warfare thing. Just what the current politicians want us to think. It's never the fault of GOVERNMENT. THERE ARE MANY RICH PEOPLE WHO ARE HONEST and HARD WORKING!

    By the way, how would one define rich? Is rich getting the monthly food stamp credit card, and getting the monthly government child support check, and getting the monthly welfare check? By the standard of many countries, they are wealthy. Or are you rich if you work hard and pay taxes, and save alittle and come away with $200,000. Or are you rich if you have income over 1 million?

    Wealth is relative to life and liberty. Without liberty there can be no wealth. The western world is sinking right before our eyes, until we get term limits, the corruption and control will continue. Period. It really won't matter if we prosecute and send people to jail because the next patch will continue to corrupt the system to stay in power because they have NO fear of term limits.

    Got gold? >>



    image

    Class envy anyone?

    Politicians of a particular Party have learned that Class Envy wins votes. I was first aware of politics in 1962 when I asked my parents why they did not like a particular politician. ANSWER: "He's just for the Rich!". Today their answer is precisely the same - just the names of the politicians have changed.

    50 years later nothing has changed. Someone else's success, and by extension one's own failing, can be explained away by claiming some sort of illegitimacy.

    People continue to suck up these lies and follow politicians who claim they will make their class enemies suffer. I think the politically correct phrase is "make them pay their fair share".

    The 2012 Presidential election will be the starkest example yet of one based on class envy and class warfare.

    Its truly sad when people stop relying on themselves and instead wait for politicians to deliver their "benefits".

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    imageimage
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    Rich is having more money then you'll ever need or ever spend. Like 20 mill and above. Greed is having that much and still squeezing the little people to get more.


    The 250K and above income class that they want to tax is just the upper middle class.

    But as you say, even those on gov't roles are rich by world income standards. Then again, how many people in the world could afford a $500 traffic ticket to stay out of jail. This is one of the few counties where it can be a crime to be poor.
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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,217 ✭✭✭✭✭
    a middle classer wanting to take from the upper class and redistribute is no different than the poor wanting what they consider their fair share of what that same middle classer has.

    It all boils down to a "if I can't have (earn) it, then nobody should be able to have (earn) it" mentality. A reflection of the greed that has infected this country, at all levels.

    Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt

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    pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,504 ✭✭✭
    rich is having more money then you'll ever need or ever spend. Like 20 mill and above. Greed is having that much and still squeezing the little people to get more

    Countrywide

    Got a slap on the wrist and kept $500 million. Not one person has ever been imprisoned since the financial meltdown. Says something about justice in the U.S. The excuse was that it was all legal.
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    << <i>Rich is having more money then you'll ever need or ever spend. Like 20 mill and above. Greed is having that much and still squeezing the little people to get more.


    The 250K and above income class that they want to tax is just the upper middle class.

    But as you say, even those on gov't roles are rich by world income standards. Then again, how many people in the world could afford a $500 traffic ticket to stay out of jail. This is one of the few counties where it can be a crime to be poor. >>



    Coyn, you've almost got it.image Not many people in the world can afford a $500 ticket, put if you take it one step further, why, when and how that TICKET is given is the fundamental problem. The laws and regulations that are subject to TICKETS/Fines is excessivemaniac. Maybe that 500 million dollar fine against a entity equates to the $500 fine to J6P. I don't know, just saying. 1) How much should anyone be penalized? (How) 2)Government is broke and tickets/fines provide a very easy good source of income. (Why) 3) When governments spend fiat dollars over and above the income.... quess what, they will go to all areas to generate income, rich and poor.

    Got Gold?


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    mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
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    ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 5,411 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Bend over, Pilgrim >>


    Wow. I'm not surprised of course, but Obama is clearly trying to create the most hostile business environment possible which we all know is the path to prosperity and jobs for everyone.
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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hmm, much higher dividends tax...even more reason to own PM's. But a windfall profits tax can't be all that far away. Maybe next year?
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 28,353 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Hmm, much higher dividends tax...even more reason to own PM's. But a windfall profits tax can't be all that far away. Maybe next year? >>




    I suppose when our "capitalistic system" starts paying interest on capital again they'll call that a windfall profit as well.
    Tempus fugit.
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    OnlyGoldIsMoneyOnlyGoldIsMoney Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Hmm, much higher dividends tax...even more reason to own PM's. But a windfall profits tax can't be all that far away. Maybe next year? >>



    The Dear Leader has decided to tax us into prosperity.

    Fortunately I'm absurdly light in equities and heavy into metals. A windfall profits tax on physical metals will not be easy to institute without resurrecting that whole 1099 business.
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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,383 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gold? What gold?
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭
    MA sovereign debt crisis and stock market

    he does call for gold @ $5k but not until third quarter 2015.


    he is not of the gold=money camp, rather a commodity, which i tend to lean, yet he's of course bullish on gold.
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    fishcookerfishcooker Posts: 3,446 ✭✭
    Note to self: erase dividend paying stocks from watch list.
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    mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    "Gold? What gold?"

    Hummmmm...let me guess, boating accident?
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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,383 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Simple Calculations:

    2010 - Buy 1 oz @ $1,400.

    2015 - Sell 1 oz @ $3,500.

    "Profit" = $2,100.

    (Marvel at how smart you were to buy gold at $1,400 in 2010.)

    Tax = $700 @ nominal 30% tax rate. (Choose a higher rate if necessary.)

    $3,500 Gross - $700 Tax = Net Proceeds = $2,800

    2015 - Buy 0.8 oz @ $2,800

    (Marvel at how it turns into less and less as you repeat the process - even when you made a Fabulous call AND acted upon it.)

    Reflect on the same process using stocks or bonds, assuming that they grow in nominal value - (or not).

    Note to self - remember to keep excellent records.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>MA sovereign debt crisis and stock market

    he does call for gold @ $5k but not until third quarter 2015.

    he is not of the gold=money camp, rather a commodity, which i tend to lean, yet he's of course bullish on gold. >>



    While Armstrong is well worth reading, his short/intermediate price predictions leave much to be desired. He made a big thing about a gold monthly closing
    under $1605 would/could lead to $1200's to $1400's in short order. And indeed, gold closed in the $1560's for December as well as 2011. The bears ran wild.
    Yet almost immediately gold turned around and rallied getting back over $1600 on the first trading day in January. Gold achieved the monthly close under $1605 and it
    wasn't bearish at all....at least not yet.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    << <i>Gold? What gold? >>



    Amen!
    NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac
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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Retail stores - extend and pretend

    The data on the 8 major retailers at the end of the article is particularly chilling.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This last article is remarkable.. we are in a crisis of excess here in 2012 America, too much of everything everywhere, houses, stuff to go inside houses, cars, clothes, strip malls, electronic and plastic junk, information, and we're also repeatedly reportedly awash with federal reserve notes, not to mention calories, as obesity is our No.1 health issue so there must be plenty of food, particularly for the poor.

    We're giving away bags of essentially brand new kids clothes to friends with younger kids, much of which we got from friends with older kids. Makes it hard to spend money at local malls on new stuff image poor retail sector image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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    mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    Well, that article substantiates my observations. The great retail push last season, with a huge Thanksgiving advertising effort and equally as large an effort for the Christmas shopping season made the retail stats glow. The headlines after the holdiay season this year were very encouraging for those that like to make news out of any glimmer of hope in the economy and dare we say, economic recovery. The stores and roadways were packed for 3 or 4 weeks of the holiday shopping extravaganza; messy aisles, messy shelves, sneers from the help, parking on the south forty so the numbers make sense, it was a good retail season in terms of pushing stuff out the door.

    Right after the season, I noticed the stores were not so crowded and there seemed to be plenty of retail staff walking around looking for customers to assist. Maybe folks were shopped out for a month or so? Went to the Sears a couple of weeks ago and there were 6 sales staff and one customer...me buying a new water heater. Went to the Lowes and noticed that there weren't any lines, the shelves were all tidy and orderly and fewer folks crowding up the aisles and I even got a good parking place. Same for my local big grocery store, well stocked shelves but not so many folks buying stuff. My take away was that there wasn't enough foot traffic to keep the doors open in these places. Maybe this big spending season last year was just a death rattle, one last play before the game over sign comes on, before the banksters get their foreclosure procedures straigtened out and start taking posession, before the 99 weeks of unemployment gets trimmed to 60 or so and folks get pushed off of the dole.

    Read an article today discussing the increase in credit card use and the rising amount of retail credit that has been charged on plastic during the holidays and through January. Got to thinking that the holiday season was fueled by plastic from folks that really don't have the disposable income in cash like they did last year...I noticed a lot more cash in '10 than in '11. Team O has been talking about post recovery, abundant jobs, rising manufacturing and excellent retail numbers and I've seen the headlines and pundits blowing sunshine at hiney but I haven't seen it myself so I was thinking maybe it's like that in another part of the country than Texas. Things here are maybe not stagnant but certainly not robust even with the small rise in crude barrels. The saying here is that for every $1 oil rises, 1,000 jobs are created so what ever we're losing to the economy, we're gaining back in petroleum and that is maintaining the status quo sans any colas or merit pay but not a lot of growth. The local not for profits 501 c-3's are gasping, many have merged or have been particularly quiet...there's just not a lot of loose cash flowing but the larger ones with corporate sponsors that have to burn off profits are still doing good.

    But the DOW index is rising, once again, glowing post recovery headlines...heck, I even nibbled on a couple of symbols. So, now, I'm thinkin' "What's going on?" Self doesn't think we are post recovery, self thinks there's another shoe to drop, self is lookin' around, watchin', self is reminded of that quote..."I see better than I hear."
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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,383 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was listening half-interestedly to Ebay's CEO on CNBC today, and it amazes me that he thinks PayPal and mobile payments are the Big New Thing. I'm balking every time I have to use PayPal because of Ebay's requirement for electronic payment, and I'm wondering the whole time...........

    this economy is taking some hard punches already. With every financial bite that's taken from every dollar spent, what's it gonna take before the consumer just can't pay?
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 5,411 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Well, that article substantiates my observations. The great retail push last season, with a huge Thanksgiving advertising effort and equally as large an effort for the Christmas shopping season made the retail stats glow. The headlines after the holdiay season this year were very encouraging for those that like to make news out of any glimmer of hope in the economy and dare we say, economic recovery. >>


    We will NEVER seen an article claiming a terrible Xmas season unless the evidence is so bad it's completely undeniable and unspinnable.



    << <i>But the DOW index is rising, once again, glowing post recovery headlines...heck, I even nibbled on a couple of symbols. So, now, I'm thinkin' "What's going on?" >>


    It's the result of the falling value of the dollar... get used to it. Yes, that means the DOW will keep going up.
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    pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,504 ✭✭✭
    Here In White Marsh, Maryland on President's day, the traffic around the mall was jammed. Half hour wait at the Olive Garden. Just some observations here. Weekends here are always busy, probably not so on the weekdays which is understandable.
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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,217 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>With every financial bite that's taken from every dollar spent, what's it gonna take before the consumer just can't pay? >>


    when the credit card issuer lowers his limit or revokes his card.

    Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt

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    pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,504 ✭✭✭
    Or until food packaging gets so small it won't be worth buying anymore.
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    RedTigerRedTiger Posts: 5,608
    Growth slowing in China. Bad news for metals. Asian demand is a bigger overall factor for gold than the Fed, the U.S. deficit, or the Eurozone adventures.

    Elsewhere, despite rising gasoline prices, Chevy Volt production line to shutdown for five weeks because of oversupply. A total for February of about 1500 vehicles sold between the Chevy Volt and the Nissan Leaf. 1500 EVs? That's with the chief personally endorsing the car and saying he is going to buy one when he leaves office.

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