What is one's guess as to how many of the 70s are singles versus being part of a set? In other words, how many true 70 sets are out there? Inquiring minds want to know.
<< <i>What is one's guess as to how many of the 70s are singles versus being part of a set? In other words, how many true 70 sets are out there? Inquiring minds want to know. >>
5,628 is the lowest number of one coin in 70 fs so my guess on full 70 sets, from our host in FS is around 3000. Or alittle over 50 percent ok maybe 60 percent of those are staying sets......anyone else? Oh and after watching the last few grades coming in My guess is to sell sealed boxes instead of trying to grade these last few sets I have. Enjoy
I going to put the 69S's and 69RP's back in capsules. My son opened my 5 box so I only sent S's and P's So with no 70's the other 3 coins are useless. Can anyone think of another way
<< <i>I going to put the 69S's and 69RP's back in capsules. My son opened my 5 box so I only sent S's and P's So with no 70's the other 3 coins are useless. Can anyone think of another way >>
So your saying you sent in 5 of each ? I would put the 2 69's together and sell on ebay or bst you should get close to 500 or more for those two, if you do this 4 times you should get your grading fees and pay off the set of 5 and maybe end up with one set of 69's and alot of silver for free...I feel for your grades and have no explanation, but its always a lesson with grading anything and after seeing yours and fivecents grades I am selling my last 2 in the box..........Good Luck
I am confused and need to have someone more experienced explain to me why when I look at the shared orders on PCGS and track all the MS/PR70 vs MS/PR69 results of the last month 25th anniversary set submissions data, I do not get anything at all that matches this population data in this forum.
Basically the data on the pop sheet implies nearly 50% of coins sent in get 70 if FS, and less get 70 if NFS. Yet my (not 100% complete) review of all shared orders the last few weeks shows that 5 - 70's are the average for 25 coins sent in, and that is about the SAME ratio for FS and NFS.
So what I see is only 20% of the coins sent in from unopened boxes are getting 70's. Also that is my experience as well, 5 to 6 coins in my submissions unopened have been 70's out of 25 coins.
So, why the bias? I am guessing that many coins in the pop report are bulk submittals from the big players and they only slab the 70's and leave the 69 or less out of the picture as not meeting a set 70 criteria. So my opinion is that there really are WAY more coins being graded as 69 or less, but only a small portion show up in the pop report.
This would convince me to sell any unopened box ASAP while the market assumes they will get 50% of the coins back 70 when they will only get 20%.
<< <i>I am confused and need to have someone more experienced explain to me why when I look at the shared orders on PCGS and track all the MS/PR70 vs MS/PR69 results of the last month 25th anniversary set submissions data, I do not get anything at all that matches this population data in this forum.
Basically the data on the pop sheet implies nearly 50% of coins sent in get 70 if FS, and less get 70 if NFS. Yet my (not 100% complete) review of all shared orders the last few weeks shows that 5 - 70's are the average for 25 coins sent in, and that is about the SAME ratio for FS and NFS.
So what I see is only 20% of the coins sent in from unopened boxes are getting 70's. Also that is my experience as well, 5 to 6 coins in my submissions unopened have been 70's out of 25 coins.
So, why the bias? I am guessing that many coins in the pop report are bulk submittals from the big players and they only slab the 70's and leave the 69 or less out of the picture as not meeting a set 70 criteria. So my opinion is that there really are WAY more coins being graded as 69 or less, but only a small portion show up in the pop report.
This would convince me to sell any unopened box ASAP while the market assumes they will get 50% of the coins back 70 when they will only get 20%.
What am I missing??? >>
What you're missing is that 90% of PCGS submitters do NOT have their results made public. It's an option after all.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
I accept your facts and know that results can be hidden, as some of mine are, but why would people deliberately share poor results preferentially over good ones? Statistically that would be another bias.
First NO BULK orders show up on that page, so right away there is no way to gauge if the dealers are doing any better or not. I really believe all orders should be shared, there is no way anyone knows whose order it is so why not list them all? The dealers are submitting more sets than the collectors so even the pop results will not show if there doing better. The one question I have not seen answered, IS there a different set of graders that do the bulk and another that does the moderns? Enjoy
Maybe I should take another look at my 80% 69's and break them out and send many of them back in (a lot I see that look good under 5x) for a second look with bulk grading?
What you're missing is that 90% of PCGS submitters do NOT have their results made public. It's an option after all.
OPA, how do you know this? To me, sharing your orders is completely secure and gives us more accurate stats. What is the drawback to sharing your orders???
Maybe I should take another look at my 80% 69's and break them out and send many of them back in (a lot I see that look good under 5x) for a second look with bulk grading?
Keep in mind if you crack them out only S and RP will be graded with 25th Anniversary Set label
From the other hand it would be a cool experiment if anybody has means to subbmit a bulk sumbission of 100 cracked out "S" and "RP" 69s
Yes, thanks for the reminder, I temporarily forgot that detail. I guess to keep the 25th label they would have to be regrades, which could not be done bulk. So I guess I will have to go to plan B, and just select a few of the S and rev that really look good and send them in for another try.
Joe,
Thanks for keeping up the tables. Some of my submittals were last week and your data does show a reduction in 70's as a percentage as I was noticing in the shared orders as well as my own. The declining percent of 70's is an interesting trend.
There is no question the number of pcgs 70 coin offerings are decreasing weekly on eBay.
On another note. If you recall we were told the minimum submission for the mercanti flags was 250 sets, it doesn't seem like many of these are coming up. Don't know if this is a controlled release in an attempt to elevate the price but several of the set prices have recently sold near the high side of the other current label set prices, taking into consideration one seller is offering eBay bucks with purchase. I don't believe many opportunities to snag this set at or near these levels will continue. I look for the sellers to set the offering price and discontinue the auction approach as this cuts the margins too thin. I may be wrong but this is my observation and opinion. The big question is of the 250 sets submitted, what percentage are 70's? Or is this 250 set submission a smokescreen and the label is only available to a select few? It seems like we are really good with conspiracy theories! I broke down and couldn't resist adding a set to my collection!
<< <i>There is no question the number of pcgs 70 coin offerings are decreasing weekly on eBay.
On another note. If you recall we were told the minimum submission for the mercanti flags was 250 sets, it doesn't seem like many of these are coming up. Don't know if this is a controlled release in an attempt to elevate the price but several of the set prices have recently sold near the high side of the other current label set prices, taking into consideration one seller is offering eBay bucks with purchase. I don't believe many opportunities to snag this set at or near these levels will continue. I look for the sellers to set the offering price and discontinue the auction approach as this cuts the margins too thin. I may be wrong but this is my observation and opinion. The big question is of the 250 sets submitted, what percentage are 70's? Or is this 250 set submission a smokescreen and the label is only available to a select few? It seems like we are really good with conspiracy theories! I broke down and couldn't resist adding a set to my collection! >>
I not only don't understand the conspiracy theories; I also don't understand the obsession with the labels. The new Mercantis are certainly attractive, but would you pay $300-$500 for a set of 5 of them without the coins? If not, I don't understand why anyone would consider paying that kind of premium over regular Mercantis. Forget the conspiracy -- PCGS is a business, and it has a right (really, an obligation) to maximize its profits. One way it does this is by creating these special products and then limiting distribution. If there was no market for it, they wouldn't do it. No conspiracy -- their best customers receive rewards as incentives to continue to be their best customers. Good for them.
The question for the ultimate consumer (collector) is whether or not the product is worth collecting without regard to intrinsic value, or whether or not it makes economic sense with regard to intrinsic value. If you like the labels and think they're worth hundreds of dollars over what other, similar labels cost, then go for it, since you are the target market. If not, simply take a pass and don't obsess over the fact that some big dealers get to make money off this. When then dust settles, it seems very unlikely that the market will place a multi-hundred dollar premium on a PCGS FS 70 coin in one holder over another, or on one with a signature over another with the same signature but a different picture on the label. Hopefully, the folks gobbling these up at these premiums realize this. If not, they will almost certainly learn an expensive lesson in the not too distant future. In the meantime, I certainly don't begrudge a dealer the right to exploit this market. I would do the same if I were in a position to do so.
<< <i>There is no question the number of pcgs 70 coin offerings are decreasing weekly on eBay.
On another note. If you recall we were told the minimum submission for the mercanti flags was 250 sets, it doesn't seem like many of these are coming up. Don't know if this is a controlled release in an attempt to elevate the price but several of the set prices have recently sold near the high side of the other current label set prices, taking into consideration one seller is offering eBay bucks with purchase. I don't believe many opportunities to snag this set at or near these levels will continue. I look for the sellers to set the offering price and discontinue the auction approach as this cuts the margins too thin. I may be wrong but this is my observation and opinion. The big question is of the 250 sets submitted, what percentage are 70's? Or is this 250 set submission a smokescreen and the label is only available to a select few? It seems like we are really good with conspiracy theories! I broke down and couldn't resist adding a set to my collection! >>
I not only don't understand the conspiracy theories; I also don't understand the obsession with the labels. The new Mercantis are certainly attractive, but would you pay $300-$500 for a set of 5 of them without the coins? If not, I don't understand why anyone would consider paying that kind of premium over regular Mercantis. Forget the conspiracy -- PCGS is a business, and it has a right (really, an obligation) to maximize its profits. One way it does this is by creating these special products and then limiting distribution. If there was no market for it, they wouldn't do it. No conspiracy -- their best customers receive rewards as incentives to continue to be their best customers. Good for them.
The question for the ultimate consumer (collector) is whether or not the product is worth collecting without regard to intrinsic value, or whether or not it makes economic sense with regard to intrinsic value. If you like the labels and think they're worth hundreds of dollars over what other, similar labels cost, then go for it, since you are the target market. If not, simply take a pass and don't obsess over the fact that some big dealers get to make money off this. When then dust settles, it seems very unlikely that the market will place a multi-hundred dollar premium on a PCGS FS 70 coin in one holder over another, or on one with a signature over another with the same signature but a different picture on the label. Hopefully, the folks gobbling these up at these premiums realize this. If not, they will almost certainly learn an expensive lesson in the not too distant future. In the meantime, I certainly don't begrudge a dealer the right to exploit this market. I would do the same if I were in a position to do so. >>
NJCoin, I think you missed the part where I stated my purchase price was a tad higher the regular mercanti label set, about $50-75 more. I paid $1665 and got about $40 eBay bucks, bringing the price down to $1625 delivered. I was willing to pay a few more bucks but certainly not the $300-$500 you mention.
<< <i>I not only don't understand the conspiracy theories; I also don't understand the obsession with the labels. The new Mercantis are certainly attractive, but would you pay $300-$500 for a set of 5 of them without the coins? If not, I don't understand why anyone would consider paying that kind of premium over regular Mercantis. Forget the conspiracy -- PCGS is a business, and it has a right (really, an obligation) to maximize its profits. One way it does this is by creating these special products and then limiting distribution. If there was no market for it, they wouldn't do it. No conspiracy -- their best customers receive rewards as incentives to continue to be their best customers. Good for them.
The question for the ultimate consumer (collector) is whether or not the product is worth collecting without regard to intrinsic value, or whether or not it makes economic sense with regard to intrinsic value. If you like the labels and think they're worth hundreds of dollars over what other, similar labels cost, then go for it, since you are the target market. If not, simply take a pass and don't obsess over the fact that some big dealers get to make money off this. When then dust settles, it seems very unlikely that the market will place a multi-hundred dollar premium on a PCGS FS 70 coin in one holder over another, or on one with a signature over another with the same signature but a different picture on the label. Hopefully, the folks gobbling these up at these premiums realize this. If not, they will almost certainly learn an expensive lesson in the not too distant future. In the meantime, I certainly don't begrudge a dealer the right to exploit this market. I would do the same if I were in a position to do so. >>
Whew, two paragraphs to say - "Buy the coin, not the label" At least that what I got out of it.
I think the 25th set Mercanti Flags will be less common than all the other 25th set First Strike labels and short term has the chance of a decent flip half a year from now. Time will tell.
Also, I think that in the coming years, the chance of collectors being Mercanti-ized to death exists, leading to total apathy in the community. I hope PCGS will reel the Mercanti fish in, put it in the well and move on to something else, new and different. Something other that Mercanti's signature in the modern label market. Time will tell.
<< <i>There is no question the number of pcgs 70 coin offerings are decreasing weekly on eBay.
On another note. If you recall we were told the minimum submission for the mercanti flags was 250 sets, it doesn't seem like many of these are coming up. Don't know if this is a controlled release in an attempt to elevate the price but several of the set prices have recently sold near the high side of the other current label set prices, taking into consideration one seller is offering eBay bucks with purchase. I don't believe many opportunities to snag this set at or near these levels will continue. I look for the sellers to set the offering price and discontinue the auction approach as this cuts the margins too thin. I may be wrong but this is my observation and opinion. The big question is of the 250 sets submitted, what percentage are 70's? Or is this 250 set submission a smokescreen and the label is only available to a select few? It seems like we are really good with conspiracy theories! I broke down and couldn't resist adding a set to my collection! >>
I not only don't understand the conspiracy theories; I also don't understand the obsession with the labels. The new Mercantis are certainly attractive, but would you pay $300-$500 for a set of 5 of them without the coins? If not, I don't understand why anyone would consider paying that kind of premium over regular Mercantis. Forget the conspiracy -- PCGS is a business, and it has a right (really, an obligation) to maximize its profits. One way it does this is by creating these special products and then limiting distribution. If there was no market for it, they wouldn't do it. No conspiracy -- their best customers receive rewards as incentives to continue to be their best customers. Good for them.
The question for the ultimate consumer (collector) is whether or not the product is worth collecting without regard to intrinsic value, or whether or not it makes economic sense with regard to intrinsic value. If you like the labels and think they're worth hundreds of dollars over what other, similar labels cost, then go for it, since you are the target market. If not, simply take a pass and don't obsess over the fact that some big dealers get to make money off this. When then dust settles, it seems very unlikely that the market will place a multi-hundred dollar premium on a PCGS FS 70 coin in one holder over another, or on one with a signature over another with the same signature but a different picture on the label. Hopefully, the folks gobbling these up at these premiums realize this. If not, they will almost certainly learn an expensive lesson in the not too distant future. In the meantime, I certainly don't begrudge a dealer the right to exploit this market. I would do the same if I were in a position to do so. >>
NJCoin, I think you missed the part where I stated my purchase price was a tad higher the regular mercanti label set, about $50-75 more. I paid $1665 and got about $40 eBay bucks, bringing the price down to $1625 delivered. I was willing to pay a few more bucks but certainly not the $300-$500 you mention. >>
Donato -- I did miss that, but in any event I absolutely did not mean to criticize your purchase. $50-$100 more is about right if they are in short supply and you like them. I meant to address the hand wringing over their general unavailability to normal folks, and the implication that it is the result of a conspiracy rather than a deliberate and legitimate business decision. It will stop when people stop spending $2,000 for sets that are identical, right down to the signature, to sets that are available for $1500-$1600, other than the picture accompanying the signature on the label.
In the meantime, if people are willing pay, PCGS absolutely should supply that market. Nothing PCGS does will affect the value of the sets; it will only affect the premiums attached to the slabs. My fear in possibly spending around twice what NGC charges to get sets graded by PCGS (due to the fact that NGC won't label them ER while PCGS will still do FS, and the market clearly values this designation), is that the market will wake up to the fact that PCGS bulk submissions are apparently grading 70 at around the same rate as NGC, and the PCGS 70 premium to NGC disappears, rendering the extra grading cost over NGC money thrown away. It is readily apparent that PCGS 69s sell for around the same as NGC (and as raw sets, for that matter), so there is really no PCGS premium per se. I therefore think that the PCGS 70 premium is explained by a perception that PCGS 70s are harder to get than NGC, and this very well might not be true for the various bulk labels, which seem to account for a significant proportion of the PCGS population of these sets.
<< <i>I not only don't understand the conspiracy theories; I also don't understand the obsession with the labels. The new Mercantis are certainly attractive, but would you pay $300-$500 for a set of 5 of them without the coins? If not, I don't understand why anyone would consider paying that kind of premium over regular Mercantis. Forget the conspiracy -- PCGS is a business, and it has a right (really, an obligation) to maximize its profits. One way it does this is by creating these special products and then limiting distribution. If there was no market for it, they wouldn't do it. No conspiracy -- their best customers receive rewards as incentives to continue to be their best customers. Good for them.
The question for the ultimate consumer (collector) is whether or not the product is worth collecting without regard to intrinsic value, or whether or not it makes economic sense with regard to intrinsic value. If you like the labels and think they're worth hundreds of dollars over what other, similar labels cost, then go for it, since you are the target market. If not, simply take a pass and don't obsess over the fact that some big dealers get to make money off this. When then dust settles, it seems very unlikely that the market will place a multi-hundred dollar premium on a PCGS FS 70 coin in one holder over another, or on one with a signature over another with the same signature but a different picture on the label. Hopefully, the folks gobbling these up at these premiums realize this. If not, they will almost certainly learn an expensive lesson in the not too distant future. In the meantime, I certainly don't begrudge a dealer the right to exploit this market. I would do the same if I were in a position to do so. >>
Whew, two paragraphs to say - "Buy the coin, not the label" At least that what I got out of it.
I think the 25th set Mercanti Flags will be less common than all the other 25th set First Strike labels and short term has the chance of a decent flip half a year from now. Time will tell.
Also, I think that in the coming years, the chance of collectors being Mercanti-ized to death exists, leading to total apathy in the community. I hope PCGS will reel the Mercanti fish in, put it in the well and move on to something else, new and different. Something other that Mercanti's signature in the modern label market. Time will tell.
My .02 >>
Yes, I can be long winded at times. What was lost aside from "buy the coin, not the label" is "don't begrudge them feeding the market for labels if it exists," because I really don't think running the label market up and then having it pop will affect the value or desirability of the coins. If I am right, the only people who will get hurt will be those who pay stupid premiums for labels, and even they might get bailed out if the underlying coins do well enough.
<< <i>The difference between FS and NFS results suggest to me that something is acting on the grading process for such different results to be obtained.
I'm not suggesting nor think that the differences are a deliberate decision or act by anybody.
Rather, I think the differences are a result of the same criteria applied in a subjective manner by two different sets of graders, one set of graders does the FS, the other set of graders is grading the NFS.
Don't know what else it could be. >>
You could very well be correct but if so it is still a big problem and needs fixed pronto. I'd say it is more likely one set of graders is doing bulk and another doing non bulk. The disparity makes me want to jump right out of the grading game (at least with our host). >>
Agreed. In just looking at the pop reports and the shared orders that have been posted and seeing how they have been no way consistent with the results of the early bulk submissions (which were from the very same pool of coins and were also sent in sealed) was enough to get me to send a sealed box of 5 sets and a few extra loose reverse proofs and 2011-S coins to another grading service last week instead of our host... >>
As mentioned in my post above, because of the fairly obvious differences in the early grading and current grading of the 25th anniversary set coins at PCGS, I sent a sealed box of 5 (marked well before the FS deadline) over to NGC for grading. I also sent an additional 5 of the reverse proofs and 2011-S coins for grading that were from a box that was unintentionally opened up prior to grading! Just got the results and they are as follows:
Buy the Coin and Not the Label would support what i saw last night on Home Shopping Network. These coin guys had a two hour segment and last but not least during these two hours they were offering a complete perfect 70's ANACS 25th anniversary set for $2100+ . I forgot how much he says he has available for sale but he kept saying there are Two special coins only made for these sets of ONLY a 100K Minted vs. the 20Th Anniversary with only 1 special coin of which 250 thousand were minted...He said check out how much the perfect 70 set of those are selling for today...While the 25th Anniversary set has 2 special coins and he goes on and on... His available sets Sold Out!
As mentioned in my post above, because of the fairly obvious differences in the early grading and current grading of the 25th anniversary set coins at PCGS, I sent a sealed box of 5 (marked well before the FS deadline) over to NGC for grading. I also sent an additional 5 of the reverse proofs and 2011-S coins for grading that were from a box that was unintentionally opened up prior to grading! Just got the results and they are as follows:
<< <i>Great grades from across the street, however do they command the same or close to the same premiums as PCGS graded sets? >>
Of course they don't, but considering how many NGC 70 sets are out there I'm surprised they're worth as much as they are. The reality is that the average guy with a box of five netted one complete set with our beloved host (many didn't even net one set), so even though NGC sets sell for 20% less than pcgs flippers did MUCH better sending to NGC as it was cheaper (no charge for the 'early release' designation) and they averaged 3 complete sets roughly.
Given the sheer number of NGC70s though I expect to see the difference between ngc and pcgs 70 sets widen...
<< <i>Buy the Coin and Not the Label would support what i saw last night on Home Shopping Network. These coin guys had a two hour segment and last but not least during these two hours they were offering a complete perfect 70's ANACS 25th anniversary set for $2100+ . I forgot how much he says he has available for sale but he kept saying there are Two special coins only made for these sets of ONLY a 100K Minted vs. the 20Th Anniversary with only 1 special coin of which 250 thousand were minted...He said check out how much the perfect 70 set of those are selling for today...While the 25th Anniversary set has 2 special coins and he goes on and on... His available sets Sold Out! >>
They probably had a 100% 70 grade-out ! ! !
HH
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>As mentioned in my post above, because of the fairly obvious differences in the early grading and current grading of the 25th anniversary set coins at PCGS, I sent a sealed box of 5 (marked well before the FS deadline) over to NGC for grading. I also sent an additional 5 of the reverse proofs and 2011-S coins for grading that were from a box that was unintentionally opened up prior to grading! Just got the results and they are as follows:
Overall, I'm very happy with 24/35 grading 70 and getting just about 3 complete 70 sets.
Great grades from across the street, however do they command the same or close to the same premiums as PCGS graded sets? >>
The NGC 70s don't sell for as much as PCGS 70s. But the 69s from each company are pretty much the same. I knew NGC 70s were less, but I also was very confident I'd get many more 70s from NGC.
Bottom line is that I'll do better with 24 NGC 70s than I would have done with 8-12 PCGS 70s... and based on recent shared submissions I've seen, I'd have been really lucky to get 12/35 in 70 from PCGS.
Goldbully, since you've been around for some time and monitor the pop of the ASE, I have a question that seems to elude me doing research on the net. I realize this may be a little off topic but here goes. I'm in search of information, print or online, on how an ASE is graded (bullion and proof). I'm interested in the detail information, what exactly are all points the graders look at? Any help is appreciated. Don
<< <i>As mentioned in my post above, because of the fairly obvious differences in the early grading and current grading of the 25th anniversary set coins at PCGS, I sent a sealed box of 5 (marked well before the FS deadline) over to NGC for grading. I also sent an additional 5 of the reverse proofs and 2011-S coins for grading that were from a box that was unintentionally opened up prior to grading! Just got the results and they are as follows:
Overall, I'm very happy with 24/35 grading 70 and getting just about 3 complete 70 sets.
Great grades from across the street, however do they command the same or close to the same premiums as PCGS graded sets? >>
The NGC 70s don't sell for as much as PCGS 70s. But the 69s from each company are pretty much the same. I knew NGC 70s were less, but I also was very confident I'd get many more 70s from NGC.
Bottom line is that I'll do better with 24 NGC 70s than I would have done with 8-12 PCGS 70s... and based on recent shared submissions I've seen, I'd have been really lucky to get 12/35 in 70 from PCGS. >>
PCGS FS 70's are selling about $350 - $450 more per set. Mercanti Flag FS 70...about $500 - $650 more per set over NGC
PCGS FS 69's on average about $25 -$50 more per set
The big winning label so far is: Mercanti Flag FS
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>Goldbully, since you've been around for some time and monitor the pop of the ASE, I have a question that seems to elude me doing research on the net. I realize this may be a little off topic but here goes. I'm in search of information, print or online, on how an ASE is graded (bullion and proof). I'm interested in the detail information, what exactly are all points the graders look at? Any help is appreciated. Don >>
I would call PCGS and ask what their criteria for a 68/69/70 entails.
<< <i>However, the difference in 69 vs. 70 grades between the FS and NFS continues to be evident.
You'll get no disagreement with me!
Good week for the 300 sets with 60% 70's
Is it the FS label???
The mystery continues..................................... >>
Only a mystery if your head is in the sand...
Just about every set of publicly posted PCGS grading results I've seen in the last several weeks (both FS and non-FS) has as percentage of 70s well below the "average" indicated by the pop reports. Couldn't be more crystal clear to me that it's a bulk vs. non-bulk discrepancy.
Looks like ~700 more FS sets were graded this week....that's way more than I expected! Also ~300 NFS sets were graded, again way higher than I expected! Could this signal dilution in graded set pricing?
First Strike®.............. as of 02/05/12
Non First Strike............................ as of 02/05/12
<< <i>Looks like ~700 more FS sets were graded this week....that's way more than I expected! Also ~300 NFS sets were graded, again way higher than I expected! Could this signal dilution in graded set pricing?
That depends on what you consider dilution. As it stands, with FS & NFS combined, thus far equates to about 7% of each coin being slabbed 70's of the entire mintage. The pricing already seems to have leveled off for the time being but the demand continues to support. Let's be reminded these coins are less than 5 months old and are still be redistributed. We already have the lowest mintage ever for this coin with the exception of the 95-W. How does this pop compare to the pop of 70 grade coins from previous years?
GB - Thanks for the past updates, look forward to the update next week.
I like looking at thegrading results, its interesting and provides some insight to the retail market.
I predict the NFS 70 S next week grading results are going to vastly improve again to about 43 - 44% of the submitted population. Let's see what happens!
Thanks... Reviewing the completed auctions for sealed sets of 5 ... Not gonna hit $5k, but are still selling for $4200-$4500, but appear to be in a steady downward trend.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Looking at the NFS S grading results, only 88 were graded in two weeks time since the last results were posted.
When you look at the 69 + 70 grades, of the 88 submitted, 33 were graded 70 and 56 were graded 69.
NFS S, 70, 427 - 395 = 33 = 37.5% of the 88 submitted over two weeks time
NFs S 69, 695 - 639 = 56 = 63.6% of the 88 submitted over two weeks time
NFS S 70 total pop, 427 of 1159 = 36.8 of the total pop
NFS S 69, total pop, 695 of 1159 = 59.96
Soooooooooooo.....looks to me that the total reversal in grading results between 69 + 70 percentages two weeks ago were possibly incorrectly entered data.
The results for the grade results in the NFS S category this week is back to normal. Far worse results for 70 graded NFS than the FS category.
Comments
First Strike®..............
As of 01/22/12
Non First Strike............................
As of 01/22/12
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>What is one's guess as to how many of the 70s are singles versus being part of a set? In other words, how many true 70 sets are out there? Inquiring minds want to know. >>
5,628 is the lowest number of one coin in 70 fs so my guess on full 70 sets, from our host in FS is around 3000. Or alittle over 50 percent ok maybe 60 percent of those are staying sets......anyone else? Oh and after watching the last few grades coming in My guess is to sell sealed boxes instead of trying to grade these last few sets I have. Enjoy
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
<< <i>I going to put the 69S's and 69RP's back in capsules. My son opened my 5 box so I only sent S's and P's So with no 70's the other 3 coins are useless. Can anyone think of another way >>
So your saying you sent in 5 of each ? I would put the 2 69's together and sell on ebay or bst you should get close to 500 or more for those two, if you do this 4 times you should get your grading fees and pay off the set of 5 and maybe end up with one set of 69's and alot of silver for free...I feel for your grades and have no explanation, but its always a lesson with grading anything and after seeing yours and fivecents grades I am selling my last 2 in the box..........Good Luck
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
Basically the data on the pop sheet implies nearly 50% of coins sent in get 70 if FS, and less get 70 if NFS. Yet my (not 100% complete) review of all shared orders the last few weeks shows that 5 - 70's are the average for 25 coins sent in, and that is about the SAME ratio for FS and NFS.
So what I see is only 20% of the coins sent in from unopened boxes are getting 70's. Also that is my experience as well, 5 to 6 coins in my submissions unopened have been 70's out of 25 coins.
So, why the bias? I am guessing that many coins in the pop report are bulk submittals from the big players and they only slab the 70's and leave the 69 or less out of the picture as not meeting a set 70 criteria. So my opinion is that there really are WAY more coins being graded as 69 or less, but only a small portion show up in the pop report.
This would convince me to sell any unopened box ASAP while the market assumes they will get 50% of the coins back 70 when they will only get 20%.
What am I missing???
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
<< <i>I am confused and need to have someone more experienced explain to me why when I look at the shared orders on PCGS and track all the MS/PR70 vs MS/PR69 results of the last month 25th anniversary set submissions data, I do not get anything at all that matches this population data in this forum.
Basically the data on the pop sheet implies nearly 50% of coins sent in get 70 if FS, and less get 70 if NFS. Yet my (not 100% complete) review of all shared orders the last few weeks shows that 5 - 70's are the average for 25 coins sent in, and that is about the SAME ratio for FS and NFS.
So what I see is only 20% of the coins sent in from unopened boxes are getting 70's. Also that is my experience as well, 5 to 6 coins in my submissions unopened have been 70's out of 25 coins.
So, why the bias? I am guessing that many coins in the pop report are bulk submittals from the big players and they only slab the 70's and leave the 69 or less out of the picture as not meeting a set 70 criteria. So my opinion is that there really are WAY more coins being graded as 69 or less, but only a small portion show up in the pop report.
This would convince me to sell any unopened box ASAP while the market assumes they will get 50% of the coins back 70 when they will only get 20%.
What am I missing??? >>
What you're missing is that 90% of PCGS submitters do NOT have their results made public. It's an option after all.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
OPA, how do you know this?
To me, sharing your orders is completely secure and gives us more accurate stats.
What is the drawback to sharing your orders???
Subs slowing down and 70's slowing down.
Only 300 sets this week.
Joe
Keep in mind if you crack them out only S and RP will be graded with 25th Anniversary Set label
From the other hand it would be a cool experiment if anybody has means to subbmit a bulk sumbission of 100 cracked out "S" and "RP" 69s
Joe,
Thanks for keeping up the tables. Some of my submittals were last week and your data does show a reduction in 70's as a percentage as I was noticing in the shared orders as well as my own. The declining percent of 70's is an interesting trend.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
On another note. If you recall we were told the minimum submission for the mercanti flags was 250 sets, it doesn't seem like many of these are coming up. Don't know if this is a controlled release in an attempt to elevate the price but several of the set prices have recently sold near the high side of the other current label set prices, taking into consideration one seller is offering eBay bucks with purchase. I don't believe many opportunities to snag this set at or near these levels will continue. I look for the sellers to set the offering price and discontinue the auction approach as this cuts the margins too thin. I may be wrong but this is my observation and opinion. The big question is of the 250 sets submitted, what percentage are 70's? Or is this 250 set submission a smokescreen and the label is only available to a select few? It seems like we are really good with conspiracy theories! I broke down and couldn't resist adding a set to my collection!
<< <i>There is no question the number of pcgs 70 coin offerings are decreasing weekly on eBay.
On another note. If you recall we were told the minimum submission for the mercanti flags was 250 sets, it doesn't seem like many of these are coming up. Don't know if this is a controlled release in an attempt to elevate the price but several of the set prices have recently sold near the high side of the other current label set prices, taking into consideration one seller is offering eBay bucks with purchase. I don't believe many opportunities to snag this set at or near these levels will continue. I look for the sellers to set the offering price and discontinue the auction approach as this cuts the margins too thin. I may be wrong but this is my observation and opinion. The big question is of the 250 sets submitted, what percentage are 70's? Or is this 250 set submission a smokescreen and the label is only available to a select few? It seems like we are really good with conspiracy theories! I broke down and couldn't resist adding a set to my collection! >>
I not only don't understand the conspiracy theories; I also don't understand the obsession with the labels. The new Mercantis are certainly attractive, but would you pay $300-$500 for a set of 5 of them without the coins? If not, I don't understand why anyone would consider paying that kind of premium over regular Mercantis. Forget the conspiracy -- PCGS is a business, and it has a right (really, an obligation) to maximize its profits. One way it does this is by creating these special products and then limiting distribution. If there was no market for it, they wouldn't do it. No conspiracy -- their best customers receive rewards as incentives to continue to be their best customers. Good for them.
The question for the ultimate consumer (collector) is whether or not the product is worth collecting without regard to intrinsic value, or whether or not it makes economic sense with regard to intrinsic value. If you like the labels and think they're worth hundreds of dollars over what other, similar labels cost, then go for it, since you are the target market. If not, simply take a pass and don't obsess over the fact that some big dealers get to make money off this. When then dust settles, it seems very unlikely that the market will place a multi-hundred dollar premium on a PCGS FS 70 coin in one holder over another, or on one with a signature over another with the same signature but a different picture on the label. Hopefully, the folks gobbling these up at these premiums realize this. If not, they will almost certainly learn an expensive lesson in the not too distant future. In the meantime, I certainly don't begrudge a dealer the right to exploit this market. I would do the same if I were in a position to do so.
<< <i>
<< <i>There is no question the number of pcgs 70 coin offerings are decreasing weekly on eBay.
On another note. If you recall we were told the minimum submission for the mercanti flags was 250 sets, it doesn't seem like many of these are coming up. Don't know if this is a controlled release in an attempt to elevate the price but several of the set prices have recently sold near the high side of the other current label set prices, taking into consideration one seller is offering eBay bucks with purchase. I don't believe many opportunities to snag this set at or near these levels will continue. I look for the sellers to set the offering price and discontinue the auction approach as this cuts the margins too thin. I may be wrong but this is my observation and opinion. The big question is of the 250 sets submitted, what percentage are 70's? Or is this 250 set submission a smokescreen and the label is only available to a select few? It seems like we are really good with conspiracy theories! I broke down and couldn't resist adding a set to my collection! >>
I not only don't understand the conspiracy theories; I also don't understand the obsession with the labels. The new Mercantis are certainly attractive, but would you pay $300-$500 for a set of 5 of them without the coins? If not, I don't understand why anyone would consider paying that kind of premium over regular Mercantis. Forget the conspiracy -- PCGS is a business, and it has a right (really, an obligation) to maximize its profits. One way it does this is by creating these special products and then limiting distribution. If there was no market for it, they wouldn't do it. No conspiracy -- their best customers receive rewards as incentives to continue to be their best customers. Good for them.
The question for the ultimate consumer (collector) is whether or not the product is worth collecting without regard to intrinsic value, or whether or not it makes economic sense with regard to intrinsic value. If you like the labels and think they're worth hundreds of dollars over what other, similar labels cost, then go for it, since you are the target market. If not, simply take a pass and don't obsess over the fact that some big dealers get to make money off this. When then dust settles, it seems very unlikely that the market will place a multi-hundred dollar premium on a PCGS FS 70 coin in one holder over another, or on one with a signature over another with the same signature but a different picture on the label. Hopefully, the folks gobbling these up at these premiums realize this. If not, they will almost certainly learn an expensive lesson in the not too distant future. In the meantime, I certainly don't begrudge a dealer the right to exploit this market. I would do the same if I were in a position to do so.
NJCoin, I think you missed the part where I stated my purchase price was a tad higher the regular mercanti label set, about $50-75 more. I paid $1665 and got about $40 eBay bucks, bringing the price down to $1625 delivered. I was willing to pay a few more bucks but certainly not the $300-$500 you mention.
First Strike®..............
As of 01/22/12
Non First Strike............................
As of 01/22/12
<< <i>I not only don't understand the conspiracy theories; I also don't understand the obsession with the labels. The new Mercantis are certainly attractive, but would you pay $300-$500 for a set of 5 of them without the coins? If not, I don't understand why anyone would consider paying that kind of premium over regular Mercantis. Forget the conspiracy -- PCGS is a business, and it has a right (really, an obligation) to maximize its profits. One way it does this is by creating these special products and then limiting distribution. If there was no market for it, they wouldn't do it. No conspiracy -- their best customers receive rewards as incentives to continue to be their best customers. Good for them.
The question for the ultimate consumer (collector) is whether or not the product is worth collecting without regard to intrinsic value, or whether or not it makes economic sense with regard to intrinsic value. If you like the labels and think they're worth hundreds of dollars over what other, similar labels cost, then go for it, since you are the target market. If not, simply take a pass and don't obsess over the fact that some big dealers get to make money off this. When then dust settles, it seems very unlikely that the market will place a multi-hundred dollar premium on a PCGS FS 70 coin in one holder over another, or on one with a signature over another with the same signature but a different picture on the label. Hopefully, the folks gobbling these up at these premiums realize this. If not, they will almost certainly learn an expensive lesson in the not too distant future. In the meantime, I certainly don't begrudge a dealer the right to exploit this market. I would do the same if I were in a position to do so.
Whew, two paragraphs to say - "Buy the coin, not the label" At least that what I got out of it.
I think the 25th set Mercanti Flags will be less common than all the other 25th set First Strike labels and short term has the chance of a decent flip half a year from now. Time will tell.
Also, I think that in the coming years, the chance of collectors being Mercanti-ized to death exists, leading to total apathy in the community. I hope PCGS will reel the Mercanti fish in, put it in the well and move on to something else, new and different. Something other that Mercanti's signature in the modern label market. Time will tell.
My .02
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>There is no question the number of pcgs 70 coin offerings are decreasing weekly on eBay.
On another note. If you recall we were told the minimum submission for the mercanti flags was 250 sets, it doesn't seem like many of these are coming up. Don't know if this is a controlled release in an attempt to elevate the price but several of the set prices have recently sold near the high side of the other current label set prices, taking into consideration one seller is offering eBay bucks with purchase. I don't believe many opportunities to snag this set at or near these levels will continue. I look for the sellers to set the offering price and discontinue the auction approach as this cuts the margins too thin. I may be wrong but this is my observation and opinion. The big question is of the 250 sets submitted, what percentage are 70's? Or is this 250 set submission a smokescreen and the label is only available to a select few? It seems like we are really good with conspiracy theories! I broke down and couldn't resist adding a set to my collection! >>
I not only don't understand the conspiracy theories; I also don't understand the obsession with the labels. The new Mercantis are certainly attractive, but would you pay $300-$500 for a set of 5 of them without the coins? If not, I don't understand why anyone would consider paying that kind of premium over regular Mercantis. Forget the conspiracy -- PCGS is a business, and it has a right (really, an obligation) to maximize its profits. One way it does this is by creating these special products and then limiting distribution. If there was no market for it, they wouldn't do it. No conspiracy -- their best customers receive rewards as incentives to continue to be their best customers. Good for them.
The question for the ultimate consumer (collector) is whether or not the product is worth collecting without regard to intrinsic value, or whether or not it makes economic sense with regard to intrinsic value. If you like the labels and think they're worth hundreds of dollars over what other, similar labels cost, then go for it, since you are the target market. If not, simply take a pass and don't obsess over the fact that some big dealers get to make money off this. When then dust settles, it seems very unlikely that the market will place a multi-hundred dollar premium on a PCGS FS 70 coin in one holder over another, or on one with a signature over another with the same signature but a different picture on the label. Hopefully, the folks gobbling these up at these premiums realize this. If not, they will almost certainly learn an expensive lesson in the not too distant future. In the meantime, I certainly don't begrudge a dealer the right to exploit this market. I would do the same if I were in a position to do so.
NJCoin, I think you missed the part where I stated my purchase price was a tad higher the regular mercanti label set, about $50-75 more. I paid $1665 and got about $40 eBay bucks, bringing the price down to $1625 delivered. I was willing to pay a few more bucks but certainly not the $300-$500 you mention. >>
Donato -- I did miss that, but in any event I absolutely did not mean to criticize your purchase. $50-$100 more is about right if they are in short supply and you like them. I meant to address the hand wringing over their general unavailability to normal folks, and the implication that it is the result of a conspiracy rather than a deliberate and legitimate business decision. It will stop when people stop spending $2,000 for sets that are identical, right down to the signature, to sets that are available for $1500-$1600, other than the picture accompanying the signature on the label.
In the meantime, if people are willing pay, PCGS absolutely should supply that market. Nothing PCGS does will affect the value of the sets; it will only affect the premiums attached to the slabs. My fear in possibly spending around twice what NGC charges to get sets graded by PCGS (due to the fact that NGC won't label them ER while PCGS will still do FS, and the market clearly values this designation), is that the market will wake up to the fact that PCGS bulk submissions are apparently grading 70 at around the same rate as NGC, and the PCGS 70 premium to NGC disappears, rendering the extra grading cost over NGC money thrown away. It is readily apparent that PCGS 69s sell for around the same as NGC (and as raw sets, for that matter), so there is really no PCGS premium per se. I therefore think that the PCGS 70 premium is explained by a perception that PCGS 70s are harder to get than NGC, and this very well might not be true for the various bulk labels, which seem to account for a significant proportion of the PCGS population of these sets.
<< <i>
<< <i>I not only don't understand the conspiracy theories; I also don't understand the obsession with the labels. The new Mercantis are certainly attractive, but would you pay $300-$500 for a set of 5 of them without the coins? If not, I don't understand why anyone would consider paying that kind of premium over regular Mercantis. Forget the conspiracy -- PCGS is a business, and it has a right (really, an obligation) to maximize its profits. One way it does this is by creating these special products and then limiting distribution. If there was no market for it, they wouldn't do it. No conspiracy -- their best customers receive rewards as incentives to continue to be their best customers. Good for them.
The question for the ultimate consumer (collector) is whether or not the product is worth collecting without regard to intrinsic value, or whether or not it makes economic sense with regard to intrinsic value. If you like the labels and think they're worth hundreds of dollars over what other, similar labels cost, then go for it, since you are the target market. If not, simply take a pass and don't obsess over the fact that some big dealers get to make money off this. When then dust settles, it seems very unlikely that the market will place a multi-hundred dollar premium on a PCGS FS 70 coin in one holder over another, or on one with a signature over another with the same signature but a different picture on the label. Hopefully, the folks gobbling these up at these premiums realize this. If not, they will almost certainly learn an expensive lesson in the not too distant future. In the meantime, I certainly don't begrudge a dealer the right to exploit this market. I would do the same if I were in a position to do so.
Whew, two paragraphs to say - "Buy the coin, not the label" At least that what I got out of it.
I think the 25th set Mercanti Flags will be less common than all the other 25th set First Strike labels and short term has the chance of a decent flip half a year from now. Time will tell.
Also, I think that in the coming years, the chance of collectors being Mercanti-ized to death exists, leading to total apathy in the community. I hope PCGS will reel the Mercanti fish in, put it in the well and move on to something else, new and different. Something other that Mercanti's signature in the modern label market. Time will tell.
My .02 >>
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The difference between FS and NFS results suggest to me that something is acting on the grading process for such different results to be obtained.
I'm not suggesting nor think that the differences are a deliberate decision or act by anybody.
Rather, I think the differences are a result of the same criteria applied in a subjective manner by two different sets of graders, one set of graders does the FS, the other set of graders is grading the NFS.
Don't know what else it could be. >>
You could very well be correct but if so it is still a big problem and needs fixed pronto. I'd say it is more likely one set of graders is doing bulk and another doing non bulk. The disparity makes me want to jump right out of the grading game (at least with our host). >>
Agreed. In just looking at the pop reports and the shared orders that have been posted and seeing how they have been no way consistent with the results of the early bulk submissions (which were from the very same pool of coins and were also sent in sealed) was enough to get me to send a sealed box of 5 sets and a few extra loose reverse proofs and 2011-S coins to another grading service last week instead of our host... >>
As mentioned in my post above, because of the fairly obvious differences in the early grading and current grading of the 25th anniversary set coins at PCGS, I sent a sealed box of 5 (marked well before the FS deadline) over to NGC for grading. I also sent an additional 5 of the reverse proofs and 2011-S coins for grading that were from a box that was unintentionally opened up prior to grading! Just got the results and they are as follows:
2011 Bullion - 3 70s, 2 69s
2011-W Unc - 3 70s, 2 69s
2011-W PR - 2 70s, 3 69s
2011-S Unc - 7 70s, 3 69s
2011-P Rev PF - 9 70s, 1 69
Overall, I'm very happy with 24/35 grading 70 and getting just about 3 complete 70 sets.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
a complete perfect 70's ANACS 25th anniversary set for $2100+ . I forgot how much he says he has available for sale but he kept saying there are Two special coins only made for these sets of ONLY a
100K Minted vs. the 20Th Anniversary with only 1 special coin of which 250 thousand were minted...He said check out how much the perfect 70 set of those are selling for today...While the 25th Anniversary set has 2 special coins and he goes on and on... His available sets Sold Out!
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
2011 Bullion - 3 70s, 2 69s
2011-W Unc - 3 70s, 2 69s
2011-W PR - 2 70s, 3 69s
2011-S Unc - 7 70s, 3 69s
2011-P Rev PF - 9 70s, 1 69
Overall, I'm very happy with 24/35 grading 70 and getting just about 3 complete 70 sets.
Great grades from across the street, however do they command the same or close to the same premiums as PCGS graded sets?
<< <i>Great grades from across the street, however do they command the same or close to the same premiums as PCGS graded sets? >>
Of course they don't, but considering how many NGC 70 sets are out there I'm surprised they're worth as much as they are. The reality is that the average guy with a box of five netted one complete set with our beloved host (many didn't even net one set), so even though NGC sets sell for 20% less than pcgs flippers did MUCH better sending to NGC as it was cheaper (no charge for the 'early release' designation) and they averaged 3 complete sets roughly.
Given the sheer number of NGC70s though I expect to see the difference between ngc and pcgs 70 sets widen...
<< <i>Buy the Coin and Not the Label would support what i saw last night on Home Shopping Network. These coin guys had a two hour segment and last but not least during these two hours they were offering
a complete perfect 70's ANACS 25th anniversary set for $2100+ . I forgot how much he says he has available for sale but he kept saying there are Two special coins only made for these sets of ONLY a
100K Minted vs. the 20Th Anniversary with only 1 special coin of which 250 thousand were minted...He said check out how much the perfect 70 set of those are selling for today...While the 25th Anniversary set has 2 special coins and he goes on and on... His available sets Sold Out! >>
They probably had a 100% 70 grade-out ! ! !
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>As mentioned in my post above, because of the fairly obvious differences in the early grading and current grading of the 25th anniversary set coins at PCGS, I sent a sealed box of 5 (marked well before the FS deadline) over to NGC for grading. I also sent an additional 5 of the reverse proofs and 2011-S coins for grading that were from a box that was unintentionally opened up prior to grading! Just got the results and they are as follows:
2011 Bullion - 3 70s, 2 69s
2011-W Unc - 3 70s, 2 69s
2011-W PR - 2 70s, 3 69s
2011-S Unc - 7 70s, 3 69s
2011-P Rev PF - 9 70s, 1 69
Overall, I'm very happy with 24/35 grading 70 and getting just about 3 complete 70 sets.
Great grades from across the street, however do they command the same or close to the same premiums as PCGS graded sets? >>
The NGC 70s don't sell for as much as PCGS 70s. But the 69s from each company are pretty much the same. I knew NGC 70s were less, but I also was very confident I'd get many more 70s from NGC.
Bottom line is that I'll do better with 24 NGC 70s than I would have done with 8-12 PCGS 70s... and based on recent shared submissions I've seen, I'd have been really lucky to get 12/35 in 70 from PCGS.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>
<< <i>As mentioned in my post above, because of the fairly obvious differences in the early grading and current grading of the 25th anniversary set coins at PCGS, I sent a sealed box of 5 (marked well before the FS deadline) over to NGC for grading. I also sent an additional 5 of the reverse proofs and 2011-S coins for grading that were from a box that was unintentionally opened up prior to grading! Just got the results and they are as follows:
2011 Bullion - 3 70s, 2 69s
2011-W Unc - 3 70s, 2 69s
2011-W PR - 2 70s, 3 69s
2011-S Unc - 7 70s, 3 69s
2011-P Rev PF - 9 70s, 1 69
Overall, I'm very happy with 24/35 grading 70 and getting just about 3 complete 70 sets.
Great grades from across the street, however do they command the same or close to the same premiums as PCGS graded sets? >>
The NGC 70s don't sell for as much as PCGS 70s. But the 69s from each company are pretty much the same. I knew NGC 70s were less, but I also was very confident I'd get many more 70s from NGC.
Bottom line is that I'll do better with 24 NGC 70s than I would have done with 8-12 PCGS 70s... and based on recent shared submissions I've seen, I'd have been really lucky to get 12/35 in 70 from PCGS. >>
PCGS FS 70's are selling about $350 - $450 more per set.
Mercanti Flag FS 70...about $500 - $650 more per set over NGC
PCGS FS 69's on average about $25 -$50 more per set
The big winning label so far is: Mercanti Flag FS
<< <i>I'm jonesing for the latest Sun. morn pop reports.
Sorry, I had a problem uploading to the forum, so I am using PhotoBucket for now.
First Strike®
As of 1/29/12
Non First Strike
As of 1/29/12
<< <i>Goldbully, since you've been around for some time and monitor the pop of the ASE, I have a question that seems to elude me doing research on the net. I realize this may be a little off topic but here goes. I'm in search of information, print or online, on how an ASE is graded (bullion and proof). I'm interested in the detail information, what exactly are all points the graders look at? Any help is appreciated. Don >>
I would call PCGS and ask what their criteria for a 68/69/70 entails.
Here's a brief article on the topic.
eBay Review
Otherwise, 69 to 70 ratios are closer together from last week by a small amount, possible trend.
However, the difference in 69 vs. 70 grades between the FS and NFS continues to be evident.
1/29/12
FS
...........68........................69........................70...................total
S.. 253 = 2.18%.....5349 = 46.08%.....5908 = 50.90%.....11607
PR.296 = 2.55%.....5170 = 44.52%.....6134 = 52.82%.....11614
NFS
S....24 = 3.15%........624 = 68.68%.......209 = 27.40%.......763
PR..38 = 5.14%........418 = 56.56%.......292 = 39.51%.......739
Exactly 300 sets across the 5 coins.
Maybe 1 bulk submit order?
Good week for the 300 sets with 60% 70's
You'll get no disagreement with me!
Good week for the 300 sets with 60% 70's
Is it the FS label???
The mystery continues.....................................
<< <i>However, the difference in 69 vs. 70 grades between the FS and NFS continues to be evident.
You'll get no disagreement with me!
Good week for the 300 sets with 60% 70's
Is it the FS label???
The mystery continues..................................... >>
Only a mystery if your head is in the sand...
Just about every set of publicly posted PCGS grading results I've seen in the last several weeks (both FS and non-FS) has as percentage of 70s well below the "average" indicated by the pop reports. Couldn't be more crystal clear to me that it's a bulk vs. non-bulk discrepancy.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Agreed!!!!
First Strike®
As of 1/29/12
Non First Strike
As of 1/29/12
Also ~300 NFS sets were graded, again way higher than I expected!
Could this signal dilution in graded set pricing?
First Strike®..............
as of 02/05/12
Non First Strike............................
as of 02/05/12
<< <i>Looks like ~700 more FS sets were graded this week....that's way more than I expected!
Also ~300 NFS sets were graded, again way higher than I expected!
Could this signal dilution in graded set pricing?
That depends on what you consider dilution. As it stands, with FS & NFS combined, thus far equates to about 7% of each coin being slabbed 70's of the entire mintage. The pricing already seems to have leveled off for the time being but the demand continues to support. Let's be reminded these coins are less than 5 months old and are still be redistributed. We already have the lowest mintage ever for this coin with the exception of the 95-W. How does this pop compare to the pop of 70 grade coins from previous years?
NFS S 70, 209 of 763 = 27.4%
NFS S 69 ,524 of 763 = 68.68%
This week, the percentages are -
NFS S 70, 395 of 1071 = 36.9%
NFS S 69, 639 of 1071 = 59.7%
The NFS S category increased 308 from 763 to 1071. Of that 308, the 70 grade went up from 209 to 395 and the 69 grade went up from 524 to 639.
So, Of the 308 graded for NFS S, 186* of 'em were graded 70 last week!
And 115 of 'em were graded 69!
186 of 308 is 60.39%
115 of 308 is 37.34%
This is a complete and total reversal from the previous trend and grading results for NFS S 70 + 69 grades.
Absolutely amazing!
*edited to correct 189 to 186 and resulting percentage,
<< <i>No up date? Maybe no one gives a darn anymore. >>
I do, but I'm away from my main post for 9 days...will update next Sunday.
I like looking at thegrading results, its interesting and provides some insight to the retail market.
I predict the NFS 70 S next week grading results are going to vastly improve again to about 43 - 44% of the submitted population. Let's see what happens!
First Strike®..............
as of 02/19/12
Non First Strike............................
as of 02/19/12
Looking at the NFS S grading results, only 88 were graded in two weeks time since the last results were posted.
When you look at the 69 + 70 grades, of the 88 submitted, 33 were graded 70 and 56 were graded 69.
NFS S, 70, 427 - 395 = 33 = 37.5% of the 88 submitted over two weeks time
NFs S 69, 695 - 639 = 56 = 63.6% of the 88 submitted over two weeks time
NFS S 70 total pop, 427 of 1159 = 36.8 of the total pop
NFS S 69, total pop, 695 of 1159 = 59.96
Soooooooooooo.....looks to me that the total reversal in grading results between 69 + 70 percentages two weeks ago were possibly incorrectly entered data.
The results for the grade results in the NFS S category this week is back to normal.