Yes there are now 6 number 535's, whereas there used to be four.
In other news, I have just completed a deal with a fellow board member for a PSA 9 number 500 Ryan that was pulled from a group rip. when he first posted a scan of it many of us thought it a dead on 9 with a shot at a 10-- though we know how they grade stars. Anyways, it is the nicest 9 I have seen of this key card, JUST narrowly eclipsing my own, which was pretty sweet
A gander at the past vcp image sales of the #500 really shows how many of this card have been cut. The effective pop is likely a few less. So now I have a PSA 9 Ryan and Tenace as trade bait for an upgrade I need
Many thanks to the seller and I hope to post some scans of Ryans when I finally leave all these airports and get settled!
Definitely. The new treatment of naturally shorter cut cards is making it very hard to build the set these days. Getting a Jose Cruz through was a minor miracle I suppose. I was salted at first, but the Lolich, Lange, Brewer, Cosgrove, and Tenaces softened the blow.
I have a PSA 9 of #500 Ryan that might give your's a challenge If you had a copy of the SMR Oct. 2007 issue, you could see for yourself. Perfect centering all around with sharp edges/corners and very nice color/no print marks! That edition also has a larger view of the Claudell Washington #647 PSA 9, along with several other of my cards that were part of the article on the 75 Topps Mini's. My Brett PSA 9 made the cover! Could get a bump to a 10?... When I some day visit PSA, perhaps I'll get that long awaited review
My Munson is just a lowly 9 and is currently resting in a bank box across the country right now. But my New Year's resolution (among others) is to scan every card in my set in 1st quarter 2012.
I think MM has a sweet PSA 10 Munson which I hooked him up with a few years back. He may have a scan available.
Yes, I would crack a resub-is there any flaws showing on the back with the upper right corner? Do you see the "line" right under his name on the front of the card that extends from the left border to the right border? I've actually pulled this exact card with that line before and didn't know what to make of it. I'm not sure how PSA would take this into consideration?
Here is a scan of the back of the Killebrew. Slight rough cut along one side shouldn't decrease grade. Corners are really square, even upon 10x magnification. I see what you mean on the "line" under his name I have another that has no line, but a slight tilt, that's why this one was subbed.
Good question on the Brett mini wax pack. I would imagine it would go for a lot of money. Have any been graded? I paid $100.00 for a mini cello with Killebrew on top 10 years ago. Apples and oranges though.
Joe
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Mini cello, several hundred. I am also an avid unopened star pack collector.
Wax, it is tougher to say; depends on who desires the item. Smaller market slightly as compared to cellos with stars visible. All it takes is two bidders with healthy budgets to establish a strong value. Best way is to put it on eBay and see where it goes. Or engage the unopened packs with stars thread; a great bunch of knowledgable collectors there.
Nice Killebrew. I've seen worse 9s. Wouldn't be a crazy gamble. Some cards it seems they are routinely harsh on, like Ryan. There are some great 8s out there that can be bumped or even reviewed. I just had an 8 reviewed to 8.5. Seeing as they have had no problem giving 640 a 9, could be a nice crack candidate. Review will often just get the .5 bump.
Thanks for the information on the review probably getting me at most a half point "bump". I was considering it but had heard that somewhere before.
She's a BEAUTY! I always though the mini's were cool and had 4 raw that I picked up over the last 20 years that were "mint". Under the harsh reality of the loupe it was obvious 2 of the 4 were no better than 8's. This one shows only a minute amount of color loss at the very tip of the card under magnification. The other one had a slight "tilt" so this one went in. Looks like a 10 to the naked eye. I have a 9 already in my set, I was fantasizing about a GEM MINT 10!
I just pulled out my 9 and I am even more certain that this one deserves a 9, actually it should get the non-existent 9.5.
I am going to give it another shot!
STANGRIDER my 9 has a worse "line" runs all the way across the card, so PSA apparently doesn't deduct for it.......maybe.
Great thread! Thanks again everyone!
Joe
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Here's an interesting study on the #500 Ryan card-- a key weighted card in the set. Like the Brett and Yount, it is a card most collectors will look at first when evaluating the strength of a set. This exercise can be performed on other key cards, and reveal that the "true pop" of strong 9s (and, where applicable, 10s) is actually lower than the pop report states. This doesn't even take into account crack and resubs, which of course artificially inflates the pops of sets other than the minis, too. But my point is that the two factors often combine to make the mini pop greater than stated. The "available pop" is of course even lower considering the ones that are locked up in sets and collections. All cards in the same grade are def not created equal...
This first example hailed from 4SC. I'm sure it doesn't surprise us to see it is the worst of the bunch. Print defect top left. And rides the short bus. Cagily, it was photographed while sitting in the middle of the holder. It would look more egregious were it sitting flush with the bottom. It is rather appalling that this was slabbed. There is just not nearly enough purple real estate above the ANGELS:
This second example has a tilted image, an uneven top cut that really hurts the eye appeal, and perhaps some chipping on the right edge:
Examples 3 and 4 seem okay, except both somehow did not get an N6 MIN SIZE REQ, which so many other cards do.
So what we have here is a pop 22 card that (barring crackouts, which are possible in shooting for a huge dollar 10) has at least 4 examples that can be at best called "weak nines." If the discerning mini collector is after a solid 9 Ryan #500, he then has to treat it as a pop 18. Then subtract at least three known to be locked away in sets, and there's at most 15 at large that could be had. The real question is, how many of those 15 look like the four featured above?
And here is the latest solid example:
Pulled and scanned by a fellow board member during a group rip, which is always nice provenance. Full-sized (looks flush from front, or like a hair of space from top on the reverse image). Very slight tilt, perhaps. Strong centering. Straight top edge.
When I get back from vacation, I'll be able to scan the 8 I had reviewed to a PSA 8.5, which just slaughters the four weak/fugazy 9s up above.
They may have initially been. I could not tell from VCP. But there is no doubt why these weaker examples cited above are the ones routinely changing hands and being sold.
I always love it when the card was pulled by a board member in rips, or by someone I know, like Duff. Hard to articulate why, exactly, but it's just cool.
I'll happily put my Brett 9 up against any 9. You can see the sticker on the back on why they wont put it in a 10 slab, low centering on the reverse, which is obscene considering this cards reverse is centered better than several of the existing 10s. I am pretty happy with Lynn Nolan as well...
Wow, Jim-- they are hosing you on that Brett. When they have to flag the rear centering as the reason for holding it back. I know for a fact that two of the extant Brett 10s have worse rear centering.
Great Nolan, too. An example of the good ones that won't ever be up for sale
Great points and analysis by Matty C And even though Mini Duffs Ryan is full size and probably fresh from the pack...that card has disturbing PD on on it with the snow and red print dot. His Brett is rocking however!! By sharing scans and comparing cards,collectors can get educated on the differences of what is really out there. That recent Ryan graded from another thread was incredible and the way that card SHOULD look.
Thanks. And that Ryan from the other thread is the one I just bought; the last one scanned. I haven't seen better and the seller was a real great guy and pleasure to deal with. I wasn't in the market for a new 9, but when I was reviewing the old scans from VCP it really struck me how some are just far and away better than others. The Registry may show multiple sets with the same card in same grade, but it's not always the case, and some sets out there might even have 8s and 8.5s that are superior to 9s. It's always good when the thread can help illuminate these nuances to the set.
[Not to hijack thread but what kind of value would you guys put on 75 mini wax pack with Brett rookie showing face out on the back(PSA graded)?
Depends on the grade. If it's a PSA 9, I think you could get about $250+ for it, as PSA 9 mini wax packs in general are very tough to find (much harder to find than PSA 9 cellos). I have a PSA 7 and a PSA 8, which I'd estimate at $150 and $200, respectively. I'd price a PSA 9 cello with Brett on back at around $300.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
While I think Jim's Brett card is definitely a solid example of a PSA 9. I think the arrow is pointing out a flaw at the bottom edge of the card. Centering doesn't appear to be the issue? Does the cards bottom edge have an ever so slight notch? The centering on the back looks great! As for the Ryan....nice looking card, though appears a bit short? If this is a natural it would certainly open the door for many others that appear like this one?
Matt, one of those examples of the Ryan card you scanned appear to be from a DSL sub. I'm quite familiar with certification numbers from DSL subs. Many start with the numbers "30782", many others "6004". The Certification numbers starting with "81952" are also commonly found hauntingly shorter! I'm sure if I checked my docs the other certification numbers might reveal common nuances all to familiar with enlightened collectors
As far as the Killebrew card.... it appears there is a print defect in the upper left of the card just left of "Twins". It appears unmistakeable? The faint yellow line on the lower front would definitely have an impact on the overall grade (IMHO). Although you do see some rough cut edges on Mini's at times, it's not common. I also feel this would impact the grade of this card. Hint of white lower right corner (looking at scan). Possible hint of white on edges at top of card and right corner (again looking at scan)? Back bottom of card also looks like there could possibly be a minor crease right to left, (most noticeable on the right side). This is a prime example of why these Mini's can be so tough to come by in high grade. If you look close enough it's almost impossible not to find the most minor of defects that can cause a grader to lower their grading on any given card.
I don't mean to be critical of this fine looking example. You rarely find a Killebrew Mini with such perfect centering. I can certainly see why anyone taking a none critical view of this card could easily claim it's perfection when comparing with all the slightly off center 9's out there. Unfortunately each card must face it's own grader(s). Each card must pass a variety of different condition factors to acheive the higher grade. I have to laugh when I think about what I've just written. When I see the number of examples that undeservedly pass some of these different condition factors. So in light of the fact that there are numerous examples of cards that are undeserving of a higher grade, yes your Killebrew could get a bump in grade. Will it actually deserve the bump? Perhaps this is not important? Perhaps the more important concern should be, will collectors consider it worthy of a grade of PSA 9 when you decide to sell it? Maybe you have no interest in selling this magnificently centered example? So, no harm in going for the bump, except the possibility that another grader might find the minor defects I mentioned and lower the grade? A crack out is always a gamble. If it gets the bump, great for you! Good Luck whatever you decide to do
My Munson 10 is one of the richest in color that I've seen in high grade. Several Munson Mini's are lacking that nice rich color. Of course the the rest of the card is amazing as well. Matty C., as he mentioned, is responsible for my getting a shot at the purchase of this and a few other star examples in PSA 10 Note: the SMR of October 2007 has a Munson 10 scan, however, that was one of two cards used in the article that were not mine. The other was the #185 Steve Carlton PSA 10. Ironically, the Munson and Carlton 10's would be 2 of the star 10's I picked up shortly after that issue was released! (these were other examples, not the one's scanned for that article).
Thanks for the critique on the Killebrew, MiniMaster. All fair points although the print line is not nearly as noticeable as on the butt-ugly 9 in my Registry Set. Personally, I do not like rough cuts, but if PSA doesn't deduct for them on other issues there should be no penalty here. I did see that print imperfection in the brown area, but thought it was not bad enough to exceed the "minor printing imperfection" allowed for a 9. There is a minute amount of corner wear bottom right and I think PSA might have "dinged" the bottom edge putting it in the holder, there didn't appear to be a crease on bottom when I sent it in. This card is a big mini.
I appreciate your warning on the possibilities of it getting a lower grade on a crack-out. I might crack it out or keep it as the best 8 I have ever seen.
If I decide to crack, I'll let you know what it comes back as. I do have one other that looks nearly as nice, but with a slight tilt.
Thanks again.
Merry Christmas!
Joe
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Has anyone else been looking at the 504ct PSA 8 (NQ) "near set" on the bay? Simultaneously, there is a 350 ct "hi grade" raw collection being peddled in NM-NM/MT condition. Label me cynical if you wish, but I have a couple of observations:
With the raw sale, there is a great picture that shows the cards as if they were just pulled froma vending box. Beside some regional favorites, there are no stars/HOFers, because the description and/or additional pictures would promote that. What else does a collector with a modicum of knowledge regarding the mini set look for? Red/yellow and green/yellows of course. Upon zooming on the picture, I count 7 total. One would be led to believe that this lot has been fully picked. I'm not denying there is value here for someone building a nice, hand collated set, but my prediction at this point would be that it sells for a bit more in that forum than it would otherwise.
As for the sale of 504 cards all slabbed solid 8's without qualifiers: once again, the lack of an actual inventory quickly leads the bidding into "guess land". Clearly, this sale is loaded with the stars and HOFers that the aforementioned listing lacked. Using VCP averages, you can safely bid $1250 for just the 44 individual cards pictured. If one assumes the remainder to be mid-high pop commons averaging, say, $7 each, then you have a value of about $4500.
The identity of the remaining 460 cards is still a mystery. Factor, conservatively, 20 cards to accommodate the statement about "very few doubles", and you're missing around 176 cards from the set. Anyone want to bet that the missing cards are PSA 8 examples of guys named Washington, Grief, Hughes, Bahnsen, Rojas, Fregosi, Harrah, Driessen, Burleson, Garber, Tommy Davis, Milbourne, McEnaney, Lis, Apocada, Martinez, Pina, Borgmann, Kusick...the list goes on and on.
I think we are all aware that just a pair of these, like Terry Hughes and Tommy Davis, is the equal of a Brett, Yount, Gibson, Rice, Carter, Schmidt, Carlton and Jackson.
Again, I'm not trying to disparage the seller...there is clearly value here - just not the $10,000 - $15,000 he is dreaming of in his description. I am faulting the seller for not being prepared however. Based on feedback, he is not new to the game, and ANYONE who has sold groupings of cards knows that the question is imminent; it comes in many forms, but they are all asking the same thing: "Which numbers are in here?", "Can you post an inventory" or even "Are card numbers xx, xx, xx, xx, xx, xx, xx, xx, xx, xx, xx and xx included in this sale?"
I'm sure I'm not the only one to have asked this seller to post the included numbers for his sale. Did anyone else get the response that he was on vacation but will have it posted only hours before the auction closes? Later in the evening on the same day as receiving that response, 37 more graded mini listings were posted by the seller (or should I say, the seller's secretary?) Someone is being less than forthcoming here.
As of this posting, 17 bids have been placed and the price is now flirting with the $2400 mark. It is probably still a lucrative buy even up to $3500 but then risk takes over. Without knowing what is in there, I will not be bidding...I quit buying those oh-so-fascinating mystery grab bags when I was 10 years old.
It is probably still a lucrative buy even up to $3500 but then risk takes over.
Great observations all around. I am watching all of his sales. A couple things that I can add:
The minis are overwhelmingly old slabs. Anyone buying lots of old slabs has run into quite a few questionable grades in those lots. If you look at the Yount in the scan, it is garbage. How many more? I got the same response, but I also got a response saying that there are a number of duplicates in the lot. That changes things too. Who wants a dozen Vencente Romo psa 8s? Or 9s for that matter.
I am always leery of buying raw from a grader. Depending on the seller, you can get genuinely nm/mt raw, my sets are loaded with them, but it is generally only higher pop cards, etc. When these folks put up "Vending!" "Mint!!! (all cards nm or better in small print), buyer beware.
Anyway, I am watching the lot and may well bid, but only if I have that list of cards so I can have an idea of the value. I suspect in this case, the value is in the scans and the rest is pure fill, especially since there are so many individual cards listed from the same seller.
I got the same response from the seller " I'm in XXXX on vacation right now and will post when return." I also noticed that he has several high end PSA sets up for auction. Several of them do in fact have the actual card numbers listed in the description that are included/not included. Why would he do this for only specific sets and not all of them?
I actually have a sweet partial set/mini hoard I am going to sell in the coming weeks in order to offset my recent splurge on a 52 Mantle. Includes 9s of Haney, Brewer, Lolich, 460 Champs, and Tenace. HOFers in 9: Aaron, Rose, Bench, Ryan. And 8s of Hargan, Etch, Cruz, Singleton-- among others. I can post or PM anyone interested a complete list. Needless to say, it's for the discerning mini collector and not cheap, though I'd sell the lot minus the extreme tough 9s.
I know it's off-topic but here is why I am parting with my second/partial set... Went a little overboard this winter...
Thanks. Isn't exactly good for the wallet when two of one's white whales come swimming by at the same time, but couldn't let either one pass. I stare at them both for long periods each day; makes me happy when work and life get bumpy.
Now some really sweet, tough minis will be finding a new home!
Looking at that card made me wonder, does anyone know of or would venture a guess as to when was the last time a person pulled a Mantle out of a 52 wax pack and submitted it to PSA? And if so, what was the grade? I recall the story about the 52 #1 Pafko card being pulled straight from a 52 wax pack and subbed to PSA where it was graded Mint 9, but what about the king of all modern cards?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The description of the 504 card PSA lot is definitely primed on the high side. Grading all cards under a special would only be a little over $2,500 and if you were a large dealer, getting an even bigger break on grading fee's, the figure could be as little as $1,500?
No list of cards you'd be getting in this lot is a big red flag.
So you get all the star cards and high pop cards in 8? The really important cards in an all 8 set would be the low pop'ers. Most if not all the star cards are easy to come by in PSA 8. Like others have mentioned it's the tougher commons that become the most difficult to come by when attempting to complete this set. Without these low pop commons the all PSA 8 set wouldn't attain a value anywhere near $10K-$15K selling price. Of course the quality of each card is equally as important. The better looking the examples, the more likely a seller can expect a higher value in return.
Since there is no "set in stone" answer, I'm looking for guidelines regarding how short is too short for subbing. Its understood that several attempts may result in several MinSizeReq's before scoring a grade. However, if a standard card is 81mm, is there an assumed variation/leeway that is accepted before it raises the flag?
I just got N6'ed on 22 of my 67 submissions and while some were known shorts (like 77mm), many others were simply not very short at all.
Standard size is 80 mm. Two color combos frequently come up to 81mm. l've subbed quite a few at about 79.75ish with no problems. I haven't tried any shorter than that. I do have a recently graded Tovar in my set that measures 79mm, but I didn't sub it.
I've had some pretty divergent experiences through the years. I have seen several high grade cards show up on ebay recently, that are recent grades and have small gaps. I am sure many here have observed the same. On the other hand, I just had a sub pop and got hammered on n6s. Moreso than usual. To the point that I had a halfd dozen red/yellow 7s that I cracked and resubbed come back n6, even though they had been previously slabbed. I dont know if it just varies by grader, or periodically they get a reminder on the nuances of the set. Either way, I just wish it was consistant, always.
My set has some natural, graded shorts as well. I was particularly in awe over a PSA 8 slabbed, 76+mm Bobby Bonds that was purchased by me a few months ago. It is swimming around freely in the mini slab. I'll admit to sending a couple of egregious (77-78mm) examples, but most of the red/yellow and green/yellows in this sub were no worse than 79mm and all got the axe.
How often are you all getting MinSizeReq on other color combos? I had a 8 N6's on cards I never even bothered to measure (Tim Foli, Padres Team, Dave Chalk, Red Sox Team, Mike Cosgrove, etc).
Someone here once said "If at first you don't succeed, sub, sub again." I'm on it.
Dakillo, could you measure those 8 N6 and report back here? Maybe the way to figure out the floor on the size is to measure the rejects to the nearest 0.25 mm or better and report the results here. In other words, make this a little more scientific. I have a Garber, a Bando, and a couple of others that measure between 79 mm and 79.5 mm that I may send soon. I'll let you all know how it turns out.
I'm eager to do just that, both for you and my own education as well. The sub was shipped back to me yesterday from Newport Beach...I'm near Olympia, WA - I'll likely have them in hand on Tuesday or Wednesday.
BTW - Did anyone else get a 24 hour turnaround on a December special submission? I was blown away to say the least - after expecting to be put on the back burner for 30+ days having used the "cheap" method.
You get no guarantees on a collectors special, but in reality I have had far, far more 1 week turnarounds than 1 month turnarounds. Just depends on how busy they are at that time. Decemeber has always been a very quick month in my personal experience with them.
I have finally organized the totality of my pretty nasty partial set; have also posted it on the BST board.
Some diesel cards here, and to help offset my recent pricey pickups I can offer a rather substantial discount-- especially when considering the time and cost of assembling this grouping individually over time. The Tenace, Lolich, 460, Haney, Brewer, and Bonds are all notorious and prime 9s.
Any advice as to what auction house or online service to use if I can't sell it here to avoid fees would be greatly appreciated!
Comments
In other news, I have just completed a deal with a fellow board member for a PSA 9 number 500 Ryan that was pulled from a group rip. when he first posted a scan of it many of us thought it a dead on 9 with a shot at a 10-- though we know how they grade stars. Anyways, it is the nicest 9 I have seen of this key card, JUST narrowly eclipsing my own, which was pretty sweet
A gander at the past vcp image sales of the #500 really shows how many of this card have been cut. The effective pop is likely a few less. So now I have a PSA 9 Ryan and Tenace as trade bait for an upgrade I need
Many thanks to the seller and I hope to post some scans of Ryans when I finally leave all these airports and get settled!
<< <i>well played Sir!
were you shocked at the number of N6's? >>
Definitely. The new treatment of naturally shorter cut cards is making it very hard to build the set these days. Getting a Jose Cruz through was a minor miracle I suppose. I was salted at first, but the Lolich, Lange, Brewer, Cosgrove, and Tenaces softened the blow.
Your Claudell is one of my favorite cards out there. Truly an anomalous example.
But when it comes to Brett minis, I'll have to stack my 10 against any out there
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
I think MM has a sweet PSA 10 Munson which I hooked him up with a few years back. He may have a scan available.
This has got to be a 9, don't you think? (Sooner or later)
Joe
P.S. Epson scanners RULE!
Good question on the Brett mini wax pack. I would imagine it would go for a lot of money. Have any been graded? I paid $100.00 for a mini cello with Killebrew on top 10 years ago. Apples and oranges though.
Joe
Wax, it is tougher to say; depends on who desires the item. Smaller market slightly as compared to cellos with stars visible. All it takes is two bidders with healthy budgets to establish a strong value. Best way is to put it on eBay and see where it goes. Or engage the unopened packs with stars thread; a great bunch of knowledgable collectors there.
Nice Killebrew. I've seen worse 9s. Wouldn't be a crazy gamble. Some cards it seems they are routinely harsh on, like Ryan. There are some great 8s out there that can be bumped or even reviewed. I just had an 8 reviewed to 8.5. Seeing as they have had no problem giving 640 a 9, could be a nice crack candidate. Review will often just get the .5 bump.
She's a BEAUTY! I always though the mini's were cool and had 4 raw that I picked up over the last 20 years that were "mint". Under the harsh reality of the loupe it was obvious 2 of the 4 were no better than 8's. This one shows only a minute amount of color loss at the very tip of the card under magnification. The other one had a slight "tilt" so this one went in. Looks like a 10 to the naked eye. I have a 9 already in my set, I was fantasizing about a GEM MINT 10!
I just pulled out my 9 and I am even more certain that this one deserves a 9, actually it should get the non-existent 9.5.
I am going to give it another shot!
STANGRIDER my 9 has a worse "line" runs all the way across the card, so PSA apparently doesn't deduct for it.......maybe.
Great thread! Thanks again everyone!
Joe
This first example hailed from 4SC. I'm sure it doesn't surprise us to see it is the worst of the bunch. Print defect top left. And rides the short bus. Cagily, it was photographed while sitting in the middle of the holder. It would look more egregious were it sitting flush with the bottom. It is rather appalling that this was slabbed. There is just not nearly enough purple real estate above the ANGELS:
This second example has a tilted image, an uneven top cut that really hurts the eye appeal, and perhaps some chipping on the right edge:
Examples 3 and 4 seem okay, except both somehow did not get an N6 MIN SIZE REQ, which so many other cards do.
So what we have here is a pop 22 card that (barring crackouts, which are possible in shooting for a huge dollar 10) has at least 4 examples that can be at best called "weak nines." If the discerning mini collector is after a solid 9 Ryan #500, he then has to treat it as a pop 18. Then subtract at least three known to be locked away in sets, and there's at most 15 at large that could be had. The real question is, how many of those 15 look like the four featured above?
And here is the latest solid example:
Pulled and scanned by a fellow board member during a group rip, which is always nice provenance. Full-sized (looks flush from front, or like a hair of space from top on the reverse image). Very slight tilt, perhaps. Strong centering. Straight top edge.
When I get back from vacation, I'll be able to scan the 8 I had reviewed to a PSA 8.5, which just slaughters the four weak/fugazy 9s up above.
I always love it when the card was pulled by a board member in rips, or by someone I know, like Duff. Hard to articulate why, exactly, but it's just cool.
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
Great Nolan, too. An example of the good ones that won't ever be up for sale
And even though Mini Duffs Ryan is full size and probably fresh from the pack...that card has disturbing PD on on it with the snow and red print dot. His Brett is rocking however!!
By sharing scans and comparing cards,collectors can get educated on the differences of what is really out there. That recent Ryan graded from another thread was incredible and the way that card SHOULD look.
Thanks. And that Ryan from the other thread is the one I just bought; the last one scanned. I haven't seen better and the seller was a real great guy and pleasure to deal with. I wasn't in the market for a new 9, but when I was reviewing the old scans from VCP it really struck me how some are just far and away better than others. The Registry may show multiple sets with the same card in same grade, but it's not always the case, and some sets out there might even have 8s and 8.5s that are superior to 9s. It's always good when the thread can help illuminate these nuances to the set.
Depends on the grade. If it's a PSA 9, I think you could get about $250+ for it, as PSA 9 mini wax packs in general are very tough to find (much harder to find than PSA 9 cellos). I have a PSA 7 and a PSA 8, which I'd estimate at $150 and $200, respectively. I'd price a PSA 9 cello with Brett on back at around $300.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Matt, one of those examples of the Ryan card you scanned appear to be from a DSL sub. I'm quite familiar with certification numbers from DSL subs. Many start with the numbers "30782", many others "6004". The Certification numbers starting with "81952" are also commonly found hauntingly shorter! I'm sure if I checked my docs the other certification numbers might reveal common nuances all to familiar with enlightened collectors
As far as the Killebrew card.... it appears there is a print defect in the upper left of the card just left of "Twins". It appears unmistakeable? The faint yellow line on the lower front would definitely have an impact on the overall grade (IMHO). Although you do see some rough cut edges on Mini's at times, it's not common. I also feel this would impact the grade of this card. Hint of white lower right corner (looking at scan). Possible hint of white on edges at top of card and right corner (again looking at scan)? Back bottom of card also looks like there could possibly be a minor crease right to left, (most noticeable on the right side). This is a prime example of why these Mini's can be so tough to come by in high grade. If you look close enough it's almost impossible not to find the most minor of defects that can cause a grader to lower their grading on any given card.
I don't mean to be critical of this fine looking example. You rarely find a Killebrew Mini with such perfect centering. I can certainly see why anyone taking a none critical view of this card could easily claim it's perfection when comparing with all the slightly off center 9's out there. Unfortunately each card must face it's own grader(s). Each card must pass a variety of different condition factors to acheive the higher grade. I have to laugh when I think about what I've just written. When I see the number of examples that undeservedly pass some of these different condition factors. So in light of the fact that there are numerous examples of cards that are undeserving of a higher grade, yes your Killebrew could get a bump in grade. Will it actually deserve the bump? Perhaps this is not important? Perhaps the more important concern should be, will collectors consider it worthy of a grade of PSA 9 when you decide to sell it? Maybe you have no interest in selling this magnificently centered example? So, no harm in going for the bump, except the possibility that another grader might find the minor defects I mentioned and lower the grade? A crack out is always a gamble. If it gets the bump, great for you! Good Luck whatever you decide to do
I appreciate your warning on the possibilities of it getting a lower grade on a crack-out. I might crack it out or keep it as the best 8 I have ever seen.
If I decide to crack, I'll let you know what it comes back as. I do have one other that looks nearly as nice, but with a slight tilt.
Thanks again.
Merry Christmas!
Joe
Joe
With the raw sale, there is a great picture that shows the cards as if they were just pulled froma vending box. Beside some regional favorites, there are no stars/HOFers, because the description and/or additional pictures would promote that. What else does a collector with a modicum of knowledge regarding the mini set look for? Red/yellow and green/yellows of course. Upon zooming on the picture, I count 7 total. One would be led to believe that this lot has been fully picked. I'm not denying there is value here for someone building a nice, hand collated set, but my prediction at this point would be that it sells for a bit more in that forum than it would otherwise.
As for the sale of 504 cards all slabbed solid 8's without qualifiers: once again, the lack of an actual inventory quickly leads the bidding into "guess land". Clearly, this sale is loaded with the stars and HOFers that the aforementioned listing lacked. Using VCP averages, you can safely bid $1250 for just the 44 individual cards pictured. If one assumes the remainder to be mid-high pop commons averaging, say, $7 each, then you have a value of about $4500.
The identity of the remaining 460 cards is still a mystery. Factor, conservatively, 20 cards to accommodate the statement about "very few doubles", and you're missing around 176 cards from the set. Anyone want to bet that the missing cards are PSA 8 examples of guys named Washington, Grief, Hughes, Bahnsen, Rojas, Fregosi, Harrah, Driessen, Burleson, Garber, Tommy Davis, Milbourne, McEnaney, Lis, Apocada, Martinez, Pina, Borgmann, Kusick...the list goes on and on.
I think we are all aware that just a pair of these, like Terry Hughes and Tommy Davis, is the equal of a Brett, Yount, Gibson, Rice, Carter, Schmidt, Carlton and Jackson.
Again, I'm not trying to disparage the seller...there is clearly value here - just not the $10,000 - $15,000 he is dreaming of in his description. I am faulting the seller for not being prepared however. Based on feedback, he is not new to the game, and ANYONE who has sold groupings of cards knows that the question is imminent; it comes in many forms, but they are all asking the same thing: "Which numbers are in here?", "Can you post an inventory" or even "Are card numbers xx, xx, xx, xx, xx, xx, xx, xx, xx, xx, xx and xx included in this sale?"
I'm sure I'm not the only one to have asked this seller to post the included numbers for his sale. Did anyone else get the response that he was on vacation but will have it posted only hours before the auction closes? Later in the evening on the same day as receiving that response, 37 more graded mini listings were posted by the seller (or should I say, the seller's secretary?) Someone is being less than forthcoming here.
As of this posting, 17 bids have been placed and the price is now flirting with the $2400 mark. It is probably still a lucrative buy even up to $3500 but then risk takes over. Without knowing what is in there, I will not be bidding...I quit buying those oh-so-fascinating mystery grab bags when I was 10 years old.
It is probably still a lucrative buy even up to $3500 but then risk takes over.
The minis are overwhelmingly old slabs. Anyone buying lots of old slabs has run into quite a few questionable grades in those lots. If you look at the Yount in the scan, it is garbage. How many more?
I got the same response, but I also got a response saying that there are a number of duplicates in the lot. That changes things too. Who wants a dozen Vencente Romo psa 8s? Or 9s for that matter.
I am always leery of buying raw from a grader. Depending on the seller, you can get genuinely nm/mt raw, my sets are loaded with them, but it is generally only higher pop cards, etc. When these folks put up "Vending!" "Mint!!! (all cards nm or better in small print), buyer beware.
Anyway, I am watching the lot and may well bid, but only if I have that list of cards so I can have an idea of the value. I suspect in this case, the value is in the scans and the rest is pure fill, especially since there are so many individual cards listed from the same seller.
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
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I actually have a sweet partial set/mini hoard I am going to sell in the coming weeks in order to offset my recent splurge on a 52 Mantle. Includes 9s of Haney, Brewer, Lolich, 460 Champs, and Tenace. HOFers in 9: Aaron, Rose, Bench, Ryan. And 8s of Hargan, Etch, Cruz, Singleton-- among others. I can post or PM anyone interested a complete list. Needless to say, it's for the discerning mini collector and not cheap, though I'd sell the lot minus the extreme tough 9s.
I know it's off-topic but here is why I am parting with my second/partial set... Went a little overboard this winter...
That pack never gets old and congrats on an iconic card.
aconte
Now some really sweet, tough minis will be finding a new home!
Looking at that card made me wonder, does anyone know of or would venture a guess as to when was the last time a person pulled a Mantle out of a 52 wax pack and submitted it to PSA? And if so, what was the grade? I recall the story about the 52 #1 Pafko card being pulled straight from a 52 wax pack and subbed to PSA where it was graded Mint 9, but what about the king of all modern cards?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
If you have any Munson, Nettles or Keith Hernandez Mini PSA's available, i may be interested
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
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Hubba hubba for most everything on the preceding page........ WTG men
Bosox1976
No list of cards you'd be getting in this lot is a big red flag.
So you get all the star cards and high pop cards in 8? The really important cards in an all 8 set would be the low pop'ers. Most if not all the star cards are easy to come by in PSA 8. Like others have mentioned it's the tougher commons that become the most difficult to come by when attempting to complete this set. Without these low pop commons the all PSA 8 set wouldn't attain a value anywhere near $10K-$15K selling price. Of course the quality of each card is equally as important. The better looking the examples, the more likely a seller can expect a higher value in return.
I just got N6'ed on 22 of my 67 submissions and while some were known shorts (like 77mm), many others were simply not very short at all.
Any advice is appreciated.
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
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How often are you all getting MinSizeReq on other color combos? I had a 8 N6's on cards I never even bothered to measure (Tim Foli, Padres Team, Dave Chalk, Red Sox Team, Mike Cosgrove, etc).
Someone here once said "If at first you don't succeed, sub, sub again." I'm on it.
BTW - Did anyone else get a 24 hour turnaround on a December special submission? I was blown away to say the least - after expecting to be put on the back burner for 30+ days having used the "cheap" method.
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
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I have finally organized the totality of my pretty nasty partial set; have also posted it on the BST board.
Some diesel cards here, and to help offset my recent pricey pickups I can offer a rather substantial discount-- especially when considering the time and cost of assembling this grouping individually over time. The Tenace, Lolich, 460, Haney, Brewer, and Bonds are all notorious and prime 9s.
Any advice as to what auction house or online service to use if I can't sell it here to avoid fees would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks and Happy New Year.
PSA 10
#7 HIGHLIGHTS w/NOLAN RYAN - 1 of 5
PSA 9s
#500 Ryan
#460 NL Champs (pop 5)
#626 Haney (pop 6)
#55 Bonds (pop 10)
#52 Porter
#174 McBride
#185 Carlton HOF
#245 Lolich (pop 5)
#163 Brewer (pop 6)
#226 Campbell
#640 Killebrew HOF
#235 Billingham
#621 Rookie Pitchers
#660 Aaron HOF
#120 Busby
#491 Alexander
#114 Lange
#320 Rose HOF
#515 Sanguillen
#398 Sosa
# 321 May
#312 SO LL
#205 MVPs
#193 MVPs
#301 Roberts
#504 Bradford
#2 Brock HL HOF
#237 Morton
#260 Bench HOF
#540 Brock HOF
#535 Tenace (pop 6)
#70 Schmidt HOF
#550 Montgomery
#73 Richard
#39 Thornton
#497 Nettles
#586 McCarver
#424 Lowenstein
PSA 8.5
#500 Ryan HOF
#90 Staub
#340 Splitorff
#452 Mangual
#588 Auerbach
#459 AL Champs
#290 Matlack
#366 Sanders
#402 Tolan
PSA 8s
#1 Aaron HL HOF
#21 Fingers HOF
#514 Cruz
#600 Carew HOF
#168 Greif
#229 Foote
#583 Etchebarren
#631 Lacy
#362 Hargan
#421 Mets Team
#429 Dwyer
#61 Winfield HOF
#603 Krausse
#253 Alou
#305 Colborn
#125 Singleton
#144 Wohlford