eddiesweat <<I don't want to go into long stories. I've been in Gecko's shoes. The city I worked for when I hired on to their F.D. had a city wide manpower base of over 1200. Lots of fat and extras. Today city wide manpower is in the area of 530 and going down. The city could care less about a fire fighter safety. Underman rigs are unsafe to the lone donkey (firefighter) riding the back end. Nothing to do with keeping a union member on the clock. Those days are long LONG gone. >>
Is that a feeling you or other firemen have or is there actual evidence of a city throwing your safety considerations under the bus...so to speak? It's a pretty serious statement with a lot of ramifications if it's true.
<< <i>eddiesweat <<I don't want to go into long stories. I've been in Gecko's shoes. The city I worked for when I hired on to their F.D. had a city wide manpower base of over 1200. Lots of fat and extras. Today city wide manpower is in the area of 530 and going down. The city could care less about a fire fighter safety. Underman rigs are unsafe to the lone donkey (firefighter) riding the back end. Nothing to do with keeping a union member on the clock. Those days are long LONG gone. >>
Is that a feeling you or other firemen have or is there actual evidence of a city throwing your safety considerations under the bus...so to speak? It's a pretty serious statement with a lot of ramifications if it's true. >>
My experiance was the city constantly attacking it's Police and Fire Fighter on a weekly basics. You want protect gear, buy it yourself or hope the unions wins it in the next contract. You want 4 men on a Engine, win it in the next binding arbitration. The citys mayor despised the police and fire. A weekly trick used by the city was wait untill Friday 5:30 pm and implament a order that went against contract. The orders were followed untill the courts opened Monday morning and a judge squached the order. Christmas Eve was always a treat. The courts were closed untill Jan 3rd.
The days of bloated city buggets over staffed deparments and waist are long LONG repeat LOOONG GONE!
Luckly today the city has a mayor who wants to made things work and police, fire and general city employees union that want to work with him. It's become a game of survival. Pension contribution concessions to the tune of $25 million a year, which is just about the whole ball of wax ect.
All of the anti union chatter is ............... nevermind
All of this fire fighter experience is in my past.
I for one totally support more "funding" towards the police and fire departments. We make contributions to our local departments every year.
The local government is part of the problem. Their lack of economic sanity is chilling or hilarious. In my local area - say 2 counties, within the last 20 years the government has purchased golf courses (from the private sector), built golf courses, built water parks, funded poetry festivals. The golf courses now never pay real estate taxes! A golf course that the government owns purchased 2 ea. indoor simulators (3 yrs ago) at a cost of $100,000.
Why wasn't that money used to help fund the police or fire departments?
Bottom line: When govern. goes into private sector business, tax revenue goes down. The business is a huge drain on financial resources because they do not bring profits to support themselves.
<< <i>Could you please let me know what the minimum manning requirements are per shift as set forth by the local? Does the "local" actually set the manning requirements for a government agency? Why not just let them do the managing instead of dictating how others should manage. Another reason to outlaw public union bargaining! The unions negotiate minimum manning for safety reasons. The city left to make that decission could care less about the safety of the workers!!!! >>
And are these manning levels realistic, or are they over inflated just to keep union members on the clock? Has your union really convinced you that the city could care less about the safety of the workers? Why would you even want to work for such an employer, especially in such a dangerous profession? >>
In Chicago, current minimum manning levels are 5 people per engine and truck, but 35 of the approx 160 total engines/trucks are placed on a daily manning variance, so 125 of those crews have 5, and the other 35 have 4 people. The city has wanted 4 man companies throughout for as long as I have been on the job.
In order to convince you that 5 are much more effective than 4 (other than the obvious reasons), I would have to go into specific detail of each person's duties upon arrival at the fire scene. That would be very time consuming, but trust me......as a truly unbiased person on this particular subject......it is always better to have 5 than 4. Its not like in the garbage service for an example, where cutting a garbage truck from 4 men to 3 simply means more labor for those remaining 3, and possibly longer hours. When you cut a firefighter position off a 1st arriving truck or engine, you dramatically raise the risks involved for both citizen as well as firefighter. The actions within the first 2-5 minutes often determines the outcome of the incident. 1 less truckman means nobody is going to the rear door to open it up right away, and if there were people at that door, they are now in dismal shape. 1 less engine guy and now the officer and the nozzle guy have to lead out the hose, instead of the officer checking all 4 sectors of the building while 2 firefighters lead the hose out. Believe me when I say it matters!!!
Jamie Dimon, Lloyd Blankfein & George Soros wield disproportionate influence over the Executive & Legislative Branches.
Jeff Immelt cuts worker pay while GE gets government bailouts, reports $14 Billion in profits and pays no taxes, while shipping jobs to China. And his payback - appointment to head the US economic development council. I can't even count the number of ways that this is so unbelievably wrong.
**** I think I'm going to get back to discussing precious metals. It's hard sometimes to separate cause & effect, and this thread's been no exception.****
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Jamie Dimon, Lloyd Blankfein & George Soros wield disproportionate influence over the Executive & Legislative Branches.
Jeff Immelt cuts worker pay while GE gets government bailouts, reports $14 Billion in profits and pays no taxes, while shipping jobs to China. And his payback - appointment to head the US economic development council. I can't even count the number of ways that this is so unbelievably wrong. >>
The mob finally learned how to avoid the law. Become the law.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
Boy, I take one little ole 13 hour plane ride and this thread goes off the tracks during that time. Never saw that coming
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Boy, I take one little ole 13 hour plane ride and this thread goes off the tracks during that time. Never saw that coming
MJ >>
You have to admit -- prob one of the most informative hijack/derailments on the PM forum in a long time. My hats off to the participants!
Do your best to avoid circular arguments, as it will help you reason better, because better reasoning is often a result of avoiding circular arguments.
<< <i>In Chicago, current minimum manning levels are 5 people per engine and truck, but 35 of the approx 160 total engines/trucks are placed on a daily manning variance, so 125 of those crews have 5, and the other 35 have 4 people. The city has wanted 4 man companies throughout for as long as I have been on the job. >>
Five! Wow ... I worked many days 3 & 3, most were 4 & 3
Most minds are made up and are not going to be changed. It's been branded in their brain, labor unions ... BAD, and your accurate detailed posts probably become background noise.
<< <i>Boy, I take one little ole 13 hour plane ride and this thread goes off the tracks during that time. Never saw that coming
MJ >>
You have to admit -- prob one of the most informative hijack/derailments on the PM forum in a long time. My hats off to the participants! >>
I admit that whenever "unions" are brought up in this forum I head for the hills. I've lived this thread my entire life growing up a conservative in a liberal household in Detroit. I don't bother anymore as I've debated this at every angle.
The word "union" is akin to a live gernade in this forum.
It is kind of fun seeing Phil get all riled up though
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Boy, I take one little ole 13 hour plane ride and this thread goes off the tracks during that time. Never saw that coming
MJ >>
You have to admit -- prob one of the most informative hijack/derailments on the PM forum in a long time. My hats off to the participants! >>
I admit that whenever "unions" are brought up in this forum I head for the hills. I've lived this thread my entire life growing up a conservative in a liberal household in Detroit. I don't bother anymore as I've debated this at every angle.
The word "union" is akin to a live gernade in this forum.
It is kind of fun seeing Phil get all riled up though
MJ >>
Derry and a few others put a quarter in me. All is well though. Im intelligent enough to understand that we wont all agree on all issues, and I can see the opposition's point of view.....alot of it does make sense. My biggest problem is that there are literally DOZENS of MILLIONS of Americans currently "mooching" off the government via welfare, and yet its the public workers that are the reason states/municipalities are failing? Im actually adding value to my community, and my neighbor is not working and is on food stamps.....but IM the problem??? Very twisted logic indeed!
<< <i>Derry and a few others put a quarter in me. All is well though. Im intelligent enough to understand that we wont all agree on all issues, and I can see the opposition's point of view.....alot of it does make sense. My biggest problem is that there are literally DOZENS of MILLIONS of Americans currently "mooching" off the government via welfare, and yet its the public workers that are the reason states/municipalities are failing? Im actually adding value to my community, and my neighbor is not working and is on food stamps.....but IM the problem??? Very twisted logic indeed! >>
I stand with Gecko. He should be the last one we pull off the teet.
Federal deficit is not as "serious" a problem to those depending on federal money because the feds can print what they need. If we can get the states to print there own currency, I vote Gecko get a raise. However, don't look for me to support any federal bailout to aid the states in need. For the record, I never accused him of being the problem. My position: underfunded public sector pensions and benefits are a problem that shouldn't be passed on to taxpayers in the form of higher taxes.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
Ok, so we can all agree that IF the dollar collapses and the SHTF, it will be because of fireman pension.
BUT, so far, everywhere we go in USA, dollars still in circulation! Paid $4.50/gal for unleaded yesterday in Baker, California, and lunch at the Mad Greek was $25 (the cash comfortably carried in normal wallet, no wheelbarrows of currency required)
My position: underfunded public sector pensions and benefits are a problem that shouldn't be passed on to taxpayers in the form of higher taxes.
In the monster economic conditions thread 2 or 3 years ago Gold Saint actually totaled everything we pay in taxes. State, Local Fed, Tolls, Sales, Gas Tax, Fees, etc and its already at 50% income. You can't tax anymore if you don't have anything else to squeeze.
Good observation Baley. This morning when I walked to the end of my driveway to get the newspaper, my neighbors were out walking thier dogs and enjoying the morning sun. I think I even saw a few of them smiling. I chit-chatted with a few of them before going in to make coffee. It was almost like life was carrying on in a normal fashion.
My biggest problem is that there are literally DOZENS of MILLIONS of Americans currently "mooching" off the government via welfare, and yet its the public workers that are the reason states/municipalities are failing? Im actually adding value to my community, and my neighbor is not working and is on food stamps.....but IM the problem??? Very twisted logic indeed! >>
Some cities are already laying off workers so they can give their jobs to those on welfare. By law they are all required to work for their handouts, but most do not and it is rarely enforced.
<< <i>Good observation Baley. This morning when I walked to the end of my driveway to get the newspaper, my neighbors were out walking thier dogs and enjoying the morning sun. I think I even saw a few of them smiling. I chit-chatted with a few of them before going in to make coffee. It was almost like life was carrying on in a normal fashion. >>
I hear what you and Baley are saying. However, when I read it it sounds like Rod Serling is narrating and it is crepping me out a little. A little too happy. Watch out for the neighbor who smiles the most and calls you Mr Downtown even though he has lived on the same block with you for years and is older then you. That one is usually the zombie in the end. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Mark, Im very aware of what is going on, I just handle it different than others. I dont spend hours tossing and turning all night in bed wondering if tomorrow is the day the SHTF. I dont check gold and silver prices, I dont do balance inquiries on my 457b, Im not worried about the FEDs showing up to take my PMs. What ever happens is going to happen wether I stress about it or continue living my life and providing for my family. Some may say Im living with blinders on, but I like to think there is hope for us yet.
if those micro people don't want to or can't understand the problem that the public sector has gone from 18% GDP to almost 24% in the past couple of years.... while revenues from the private sector are shrinking like a prune in the sun...then I revert to my axiom, 'you can't teach a pig to sing'
It's been made to look like class warfare...and it's not....it's about taxation without representation and maybe a good old fashioned revolution would solve a lot of problems. The debate seems to be....OH, we're already understaffed--see we're not the problem. OH, we need a union because cities hate us and aren't looking out for our safety. OH, class sizes are going up-gawd forbid that that's horrible.
The problem is, we're not hearing from the city librarians in San Diego who are making $225,000 per year in retirement, or the firechiefs who lump all their benefits in their last years salary and retire at $200,000+ per year and get hired on for another $100,000 for 6 months to allow the city to find a replacement that should have been in place(that would be Riverside, CA or Moraga, CA), or city managers who are pulling down $800,000+ per year because they figured out to really get to the public trough(that would be Bell, CA or Vernon, CA).
You're not hearing from these people because it would not be in their best interest to speak up because those people are symptomatic of what is just the tip of the iceberg. TOP 10 retirees in SAn Diego last year represent a $60 million dollar liability to the CALPERS PUBLIC RETIREMENT SYSTEM that is PRIVATELY FUNDED, PRIVATELY BACKSTOPPED retirement system. MY TAXES.
Streeter, with all due respect California is FUBARD! I am in total agreement wiith you on those grossly overinflated compensations. One bad apple spoils the bunch I guess.
I spent 3 weeks in suburban Chicagoland last year. I loved it. Except for the heat and humidity in June. When I visit the midwest---I get a touch of sanity.
BUT please remember,
CAL public employees in conjunction with the POLS and the public unions have gloriously and quietly figured out how to fabulously game the system. NOW that they are being called into account for it....is it no wonder that those unions supported the retread we now have in the governers seat that when he was AG he did nothing to bring those city managers to justice, except when he could get a little free publicity right before the election? Or that current same governer whose boyfriend was governer in 1999 when that governer promoted and signed the bill that allowed public unions to game their retirement by last year 'salary' shenanigans. And who got reelected in part by contributions from those those same unions? That same governer. We were massaged by being told it would cost no more than about $300 million for this change....but now it seems that it's about $3 billion.....and climbing...every year.
Or the teachers union which orchestrated the nannygate against MEG WHITMAN when said MEG WHITMAN was lambaisted for not paying her ILLEGAL NANNY--who lied about her false CDL with FALSE documentation and records show that ILLEGAL NANNy was paid over $23/hr. That same NANNY who hasn't been prosecuted for forging documents to the state of CAL. Forgery is difficult to prove because it would require proof of intent. In this case, intent is pretty clear.
Or the teachers union....the same teachers who are required to donate to their union regardless of that teachers personal political belief and that same union that gives nearly all it's money to the same government officials who support more $$$ and benefits to the union members. The same teachers who have made the CAL public schools the worst in the nation...below Ark. & Miss. We used to joke about why Miss. existed...so we Californians wouldn't have the worst schools in the nation. We can't even make THAT joke anymore. Most CAL school teachers won't even put their own children into the public schools here.
Or the prison guard union that negotiated for no metal detectors at employee entrances so now the guards bring in the cell phones to the charles mansons and shot callers inside prison walls and over 10,000 were confiscated recently.
The police and fire unions, the SEIU, the prison guard unions, the teachers unions, the janitors union...JHC-do we need any more public unions?
WE are PUBLIC UNIONED to death out here and most of those people do not need unions in the present form. We are corrupt city officialled to death out here. We are illegal aliened to death out here. I am taxed to death out here.
WE do need a REVOLUTION because that may be the only way to stop this nonsense. And it's just not CAL that is FUBARD. It's coming to a city county or state near you if it hasn't already got there. I am the one who is fubard because I can't run to the Caymans right now and sip mai tai's. I am the one who is expected to pay for this mess because I got an education paid for by my parents sweat with after tax dollars and pay taxes out of income from my sweat. My dad worked at least 70 hours a week to live well...because that is what was required. I probably am close to that. The reason I have to is because the government needs my money to pay for pendejos who need my money. I'm sick to death of it.
AND right now, so are a lot of Americans. And we will act.
streeter, I really do understand your frustration. I am open minded enough to see your point of view, and I respect it. But, I hope you can realize why people like Gecko and I defend our position. Not as union members, but as firefighters. We take quite a beating on here for a job we take pride in doing. I would never come on here and be-little anyone for putting food on your table wether your flipping burgers or performing a triple by-pass.
Imagine if you lost your job streeter. You were out of work for a while, collecting un-employment, had to rely on government aid to get by. A few weeks of looking for a job turns into a few months and so-on.
Now, that is why the system is in place. To help hard working people like yourself, until your able to stand on your feet again. How would you feel to see people viewing you as a lazy waste of tax dollars? How would you feel to get lumped in with the people who really do abuse government entitlements? Even though you are pounding the pavement everyday trying to find work, you wear that scarlet letter. I dont think you would appreciate it, and you would have every right to defend yourself when people start slinging mud at you.
<< <i>streeter, I really do understand your frustration. I am open minded enough to see your point of view, and I respect it. But, I hope you can realize why people like Gecko and I defend our position. Not as union members, but as firefighters. We take quite a beating on here for a job we take pride in doing. I would never come on here and be-little anyone for putting food on your table wether your flipping burgers or performing a triple by-pass.
Imagine if you lost your job streeter. You were out of work for a while, collecting un-employment, had to rely on government aid to get by. A few weeks of looking for a job turns into a few months and so-on.
Now, that is why the system is in place. To help hard working people like yourself, until your able to stand on your feet again. How would you feel to see people viewing you as a lazy waste of tax dollars? How would you feel to get lumped in with the people who really do abuse government entitlements? Even though you are pounding the pavement everyday trying to find work, you wear that scarlet letter. I dont think you would appreciate it, and you would have every right to defend yourself when people start slinging mud at you.
Hope you can understand where Im coming from. >>
Downtown, thank you for the reminder of social resposibility. It may not appear that I am aware of it. I am.
You and sweat and Phil take the position that you are personally being maligned. I do believe that is just not the case with 99% of the people here. A little ribbing possibly but I think that when you get serious on this forum, nobody resents LEO or FD. My best bud in High school just retired a capt from FD in the Bay Area where I grew up.
I rarely share personal info on a public forum. There is a reason for that if you'd like to know, pls PM me. Just let me make a couple of comments that might allow you to understand my position. After my dad sold his business, he joined the sheriffs dept as they were having a tough time hiring people in the late 70's and 80's hiring capable execs that knew which end was up with LE and my dad was a pretty successful misguided child in WWII and blended in very well with the dept. My dad was very quietly devastated when I chose to attend UC Berkeley in stead of pursuing Col. Springs as my uncle was Chief MST SGT of the USAF and I was told that it was a slam dunk for acceptance. I had no intention of returning from Vietnam in a pine box. Downtown, I'm no chicken, but that war was unnecessary. My nickname in HS was 'bleeding heart'. That's what they called linebackers in those days in high school when they were your friend. I don't know what they called me behind my back because I didn't care. Needless to say I have always been at least mildly political and am still outspoken with my opinion. I usually think before I speak. I met some pretty 'interesting' people at Berkeley...including but not limited to a couple of the AH's who currently reside in HYDE PARK and some other of their associates.
My father sold that business---which I was part heir to because in part, he was PO'd that I attended Berkeley. So I had basically no choice but to build a business to show the old man he made a mistake for his decision. It's been 40 years since I enrolled at CAL and quite a few things have changed in this country. I am not worried about losing my job, DOWNTOWN. I am the job. I don't sign the rear of the check, I sign the front. It's my guys not eating and their kids not being educated that concerns me. I'll always be alright. Don't be concerned for me. I'm concerned for what I 'see' is coming down the line as we are facing the black hole of the financial abyss in this country. We are being dragged into conflicts that are BKi'ng us, we are borrowing to finance things that are not earned by our citizens and non citizens, we have an elite spineless self-serving political class and we are fostering an entire generation of self entitlement that hasn't reached it's zenith.
I have a lot of members of my family who are in public service..and they almost all lack the gene of private enterprise. Some have the gene for belittling private enterprise. My three aunts were school teachers, my sister is a retired school teascher, two of my uncles were college professors, my cousin is a retired college professor. I grew up around people who helped other people.
Downtown, I am not speaking about or condescendingly to people who are down and out. Heck, there have been times when I wondered if I could pay myself that month. I understand about how people need a hand sometimes.
What I am saying is that the BIG PICTURE is FUBAR. When idiots like me are fubared it's just that many more employees that will go onto the public dole if I fall flat. I have enough assets. It's not me I'm worried about.
streeter, Thanks for sharing your story. I hope your father was supportive of your decision later on after proving yourself. Im glad you are doing well and I wish you the best in the future. You sound like you care for your employees too. Its employers like yourself that do make unions meaningless. Unfortunately we all dont have employers like you.
I appreciate your being respectful in our little debate. Too many times I have seen people resort to name calling and being Mr. Internet tough guy. That wasnt the case here and I want to thank you.
Its too bad the government cant get together and talk with civility. There is a common ground that can be reached. But, we pit ourselves against eachother like rabid dogs. I have grown tired of it.
I want to go on record and state...... Firemen and Firewomen are the ONLY public unions I totally support!!!!!!!!!!
My spouse was a volunteer Fireperson for 15 years......... average of 15 hours a week. Pay- $1,000/year, Pension - Zip (nothing), Service to the community - Priceless!
Time for another government shut down. I remember the last one, it's not so bad.
Don't worry, I'll be working to keep this great land moving forward.
Instead of SHTF, it's GHTF. (Government Hits The Fan)
Well, it's been a month since we've updated the thread... How's everyone doing? Anyone use a wheelbarrow of cash to buy a loaf of bread yet? Anyone try to take your property by force? Looks like we have another Acronym to work with, FUBAR! Are things "really" FUBAR? because my definition of that concept and the characteristics associated with it are nowhere near matched by current reality, even here in sunny southern California. Are we not exaggerating just a little bit?
Gas is now over $6 per gallon in Hawaii according to the news. Are we seeing a slow motion "collapse"?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I have not seen any zombies in the last month I'm happy to report.
You were missed Baley. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>What i see from the Debt to GDP chart is that the level of debt isn't as high as it was at the end of WWII. Now, I'm sure economic conditions weren't great from 1945-1970 but there was no one pushing around wheelbarrows full of money or total meltdown of the dollar.
Also noted that the slope of the current period is similar to that of WWII, guess we are fighting 3 different wars now (but how would it be funded if it become the kind of scale WWII was?)
>>
I think the work ethic of the young and old today is different than it was in 1945-1970. Today nearly half the nation is on some form of welfare. I don't see the determination in the sheeple to save this country. Sure, there are pockets of "patriots" asserting themselves but I don't think it's enough.
Self-governance is out of style. The concept of what "America" was back then compared to what "Amerika" is today are on opposite ends of the spectrum. A major economic disaster is all the "one's" are waiting for.
Two (or six) more years of BHO should see that red line spike higher than WWII. If America fails, who will bail us out?
<< <i>Gas is now over $6 per gallon in Hawaii according to the news. Are we seeing a slow motion "collapse"?
Yeah, those folks living and driving in Hawaii are really having it tough!
Are you suggesting that a gallon of gas in Maui should cost the same as a gallon of gas in Houston? >>
Just an example of prices going up---or the value of the dollar going down. Many economists think the real inflation rate is now about 10% per year. With compounding that rate, the dollar will lose half its value in about 8 years.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Oh, I thought you were using it as an example of the supply/demand/price relationship as it relates to geographic arbitrage... because the logistics of getting fuel to a pump in Lahaina (or the middle of New York City, or Paris, or Yosemite valley, for examples) make fuel cost more in those places than those near oil wells and refineries)
Yes, prices are trending up for some things in some places and times, and down for other things in other places and times. Nothing new.
think the work ethic of the young and old today is different than it was in 1945-1970. Today nearly half the nation is on some form of welfare. I don't see the determination in the sheeple to save this country. Sure, there are pockets of "patriots" asserting themselves but I don't think it's enough.
Self-governance is out of style. The concept of what "America" was back then compared to what "Amerika" is today are on opposite ends of the spectrum. A major economic disaster is all the "one's" are waiting for.
Two (or six) more years of BHO should see that red line spike higher than WWII. If America fails, who will bail us out?
that would be interesting if "the work ethic" were one uniform thing. Do you see All of "the young and old" as One Thing that can be described so blithely, or are we talking about the Common Denominator to make such proclamations? Your reference to "the sheeple", does that include you and me? who are these sheeple?
<< <i>Oh, I thought you were using it as an example of the supply/demand/price relationship as it relates to geographic arbitrage... because the logistics of getting fuel to a pump in Lahaina (or the middle of New York City, or Paris, or Yosemite valley, for examples) make fuel cost more in those places than those near oil wells and refineries)
Yes, prices are trending up for some things in some places and times, and down for other things in other places and times. Nothing new.
think the work ethic of the young and old today is different than it was in 1945-1970. Today nearly half the nation is on some form of welfare. I don't see the determination in the sheeple to save this country. Sure, there are pockets of "patriots" asserting themselves but I don't think it's enough.
Self-governance is out of style. The concept of what "America" was back then compared to what "Amerika" is today are on opposite ends of the spectrum. A major economic disaster is all the "one's" are waiting for.
Two (or six) more years of BHO should see that red line spike higher than WWII. If America fails, who will bail us out?
that would be interesting if "the work ethic" were one uniform thing. Do you see All of "the young and old" as One Thing that can be described so blithely, or are we talking about the Common Denominator to make such proclamations? Your reference to "the sheeple", does that include you and me? who are these sheeple? >>
Sheeple: those who lack critical thinking and march in lock step where the media/political class wants them to go. They are anesticized by Dancing with the Stars, Charlie Sheen, American Idol, Donald Trump, etc. They follow blindly and never question their leaders.
I don't know you personally but I don't think you are sheeple....could be wrong. You tell me.
"Work ethic" and "the young and old": Just making a generalization. I'm just pointing out that I don't think we have what it takes to get out of our (Country's) financial mess. I hope I'm wrong.
Well, it's been a month since we've updated the thread... How's everyone doing? Anyone use a wheelbarrow of cash to buy a loaf of bread yet? Anyone try to take your property by force? Looks like we have another Acronym to work with, FUBAR! Are things "really" FUBAR? because my definition of that concept and the characteristics associated with it are nowhere near matched by current reality, even here in sunny southern California. Are we not exaggerating just a little bit?
1) Doin' alright. How about you, Baley? Everything ok out there?
2) Wheelbarrow, still taking clay out of flowerbed to fill holes in the yard dug by the Chessie, and still filling the flowerbed with Miracle Gro dirt. Not using it for cash yet.
3) Nobody's tried to force their way in at my place yet, prolly cause of the dogs and the fence.
4) Fubar? No, not beyond reality. But not even close to the Baleyville where I grew up, either.
FUBAR LEVEL = holding steady at 48.5%. (50% is critical mass)
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>So, as of today, there's food on the grocery store shelves, fuel at the gas stations, the power and water are on at home, the schools and churches and all the stores are open, and we get paid in US dollars, and people and merchants accept them as payment for goods and services.
Let's keep each other posted if any of this changes... >>
We have created system where millions of people have captured all the wealth and then wrote hundreds of trillions of IOUs to themselves entitling themselves to the future labor of the millions who are under 40 and are entering a workforce with few decent jobs. Add to that the cost of a corrupt financial system, a corrupt government and a future designed around endless wars and its not hard to see the where the word "unsustainable" can fit.
The only real question to be asked is "what will happen after?" Will this just be the end of the dollar?
<< <i>We have created system where millions of people have captured all the wealth and then wrote hundreds of trillions of IOUs to themselves entitling themselves to the future labor of the millions who are under 40 and are entering a workforce with few decent jobs. Add to that the cost of a corrupt financial system, a corrupt government and a future designed around endless wars and its not hard to see the where the word "unsustainable" can fit.
The only real question to be asked is "what will happen after?" Will this just be the end of the dollar? >>
Agreed. The current system is unsustainable. Thats why i believe it will be changed "by the under 40 laborforce". The USA will flourish, as will the US dollar.
Finally got the garden rototilled. Has rained for nearly 3 straight weeks. Will be planted this week. Not sure I want to try to grow a single 1000# pumpkin or several 300-400 pounders.
Doom and Gloomers will always be with us. I think the US will come out of the kink and will ok one day. Maybe not in the next few years, but we'll fight back and look good.
I've already enjoyed several batches of red-skinned 'taters from my garden, have corn 3' high and lots of blooms on the 'mater plants. Still have power to the well to water my goats and cows to keep them fat and happy.
Gas is actually tracking down a few cents to $3.76. Just filled up yesterday and guess what? yep, they're taking cash still. Can you believe you can trade 3 or 4 pieces of paper for a gallon of gas? and only this time 5 years ago gas was higher!
@ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work. Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>welcome back Baley, don't mind Renman....his radio just got stuck on Alex Jones
Plan for the future, drive less --think more--- and buy from those who don't and can't.
My two foot tomato plants have little greenies, all is well. >>
Who's Alex Jones?
My potatoes got "fried" two weeks ago due to a late season frost. Now it looks like they've have shaken it off and are sprouting green again. Same thing happened to my grapes. They are fine now. My strawberries surprise me every year. In the Fall I put a healthy heapin' of grass clippings on them. They sit buried under snow for two months and come April they sprout through the clippings.
Well well well, the Rapture came and went and here we still are! Did everyone repent, accept and be saved?
(And now, here is a voice) Toe to toe dancing very close Body breathing almost comatose Wall to wall people hypnotised And they're stepping lightly Hang each night in rapture Back to back sacroiliac Spineless movement and a wild attack Face to face sightless solitude And it's finger popping Twenty four hour shopping in rapture (The world is very different now For man holds in his mortal hand The power to abolish All forms of human poverty And all forms of human life) Fab Five Freddy told me everybody's fly DJ spinning I said "My, My" Flash is fast flash is cool Francois c'est pas flashe non due And you don't stop sure shot Go out to the parking lot And you get in your car and drive real far And you drive all night and then you see a light And it comes right down and it lands on the ground And out comes the man from Mars And you try to run but he's got a gun And he shoots you dead and he eats your head And then you're in the man from Mars You go out at night eating cars You eat Cadillacs Lincolns too Mercurys and Subaru And you don't stop You keep on eating cars Then when there's no more cars you go out at night And eat up bars where the people meet Face to face Dance cheek to cheek One to one Man to man Dance toe to toe Don't move too slow 'cause the man from Mars is through with cars He's eating bars Yeah wall to wall Door to door Hall to hall He's gonna eat 'em all Rapture Be pure Take a tour through the sewer Don't strain your brain Paint a train You'll be singing in the rain Said don't stop to the punk rock (We are here today, not a victory of party) (Party) (Good record) (And now, here is a voice) Well now you see what you wanna be Just have your party on TV 'Cause the man from Mars won't eat up bars where the TV's on And now he's gone back up to space Where he won't have a hassle with the human race And you hip hop And you don't stop Just blast off sure shot Because the man from Mars stopped eating cars And eating bars And now he only eats guitars Get up! Ooh, oh Ooh, oh Ooh, oh Ooh, oh
Comments
<<I don't want to go into long stories. I've been in Gecko's shoes. The city I worked for when I hired on to their F.D. had a city wide manpower base of over 1200. Lots of fat and extras. Today city wide manpower is in the area of 530 and going down. The city could care less about a fire fighter safety. Underman rigs are unsafe to the lone donkey (firefighter) riding the back end. Nothing to do with keeping a union member on the clock. Those days are long LONG gone. >>
Is that a feeling you or other firemen have or is there actual evidence of a city throwing your safety considerations under the bus...so to speak? It's a pretty serious statement with a lot of ramifications if it's true.
<< <i>eddiesweat
<<I don't want to go into long stories. I've been in Gecko's shoes. The city I worked for when I hired on to their F.D. had a city wide manpower base of over 1200. Lots of fat and extras. Today city wide manpower is in the area of 530 and going down. The city could care less about a fire fighter safety. Underman rigs are unsafe to the lone donkey (firefighter) riding the back end. Nothing to do with keeping a union member on the clock. Those days are long LONG gone. >>
Is that a feeling you or other firemen have or is there actual evidence of a city throwing your safety considerations under the bus...so to speak? It's a pretty serious statement with a lot of ramifications if it's true. >>
My experiance was the city constantly attacking it's Police and Fire Fighter on a weekly basics. You want protect gear, buy it yourself or hope the unions wins it in the next contract. You want 4 men on a Engine, win it in the next binding arbitration. The citys mayor despised the police and fire. A weekly trick used by the city was wait untill Friday 5:30 pm and implament a order that went against contract. The orders were followed untill the courts opened Monday morning and a judge squached the order. Christmas Eve was always a treat. The courts were closed untill Jan 3rd.
The days of bloated city buggets over staffed deparments and waist are long LONG repeat LOOONG GONE!
Luckly today the city has a mayor who wants to made things work and police, fire and general city employees union that want to work with him. It's become a game of survival. Pension contribution concessions to the tune of $25 million a year, which is just about the whole ball of wax ect.
All of the anti union chatter is ............... nevermind
All of this fire fighter experience is in my past.
The local government is part of the problem. Their lack of economic sanity is chilling or hilarious. In my local area - say 2 counties, within the last 20 years the government has purchased golf courses (from the private sector), built golf courses, built water parks, funded poetry festivals. The golf courses now never pay real estate taxes! A golf course that the government owns purchased 2 ea. indoor simulators (3 yrs ago) at a cost of $100,000.
Why wasn't that money used to help fund the police or fire departments?
Bottom line: When govern. goes into private sector business, tax revenue goes down. The business is a huge drain on financial resources because they do not bring profits to support themselves.
Just saying.
"It's simple, but it isn't easy."
<< <i>
<< <i>Could you please let me know what the minimum manning requirements are per shift as set forth by the local?
Does the "local" actually set the manning requirements for a government agency? Why not just let them do the managing instead of dictating how others should manage. Another reason to outlaw public union bargaining!
The unions negotiate minimum manning for safety reasons. The city left to make that decission could care less about the safety of the workers!!!! >>
And are these manning levels realistic, or are they over inflated just to keep union members on the clock? Has your union really convinced you that the city could care less about the safety of the workers? Why would you even want to work for such an employer, especially in such a dangerous profession? >>
In Chicago, current minimum manning levels are 5 people per engine and truck, but 35 of the approx 160 total engines/trucks are placed on a daily manning variance, so 125 of those crews have 5, and the other 35 have 4 people. The city has wanted 4 man companies throughout for as long as I have been on the job.
In order to convince you that 5 are much more effective than 4 (other than the obvious reasons), I would have to go into specific detail of each person's duties upon arrival at the fire scene. That would be very time consuming, but trust me......as a truly unbiased person on this particular subject......it is always better to have 5 than 4. Its not like in the garbage service for an example, where cutting a garbage truck from 4 men to 3 simply means more labor for those remaining 3, and possibly longer hours. When you cut a firefighter position off a 1st arriving truck or engine, you dramatically raise the risks involved for both citizen as well as firefighter. The actions within the first 2-5 minutes often determines the outcome of the incident. 1 less truckman means nobody is going to the rear door to open it up right away, and if there were people at that door, they are now in dismal shape. 1 less engine guy and now the officer and the nozzle guy have to lead out the hose, instead of the officer checking all 4 sectors of the building while 2 firefighters lead the hose out. Believe me when I say it matters!!!
Anyone personally wanna pitch in and make it good?
I didn't think so.
If a city goes belly up, all bets are off, and they should be.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I worked for a company in the '70s and '80s that went belly-up, along with my vested retirement earnings.
Anyone personally wanna pitch in and make it good?
I didn't think so.
If a city goes belly up, all bets are off, and they should be. >>
Explain TBTF then? Same rules for everyone I agree but when big brother & talking heads just look after themselves!!!
Houston I/we got a problem
Jamie Dimon, Lloyd Blankfein & George Soros wield disproportionate influence over the Executive & Legislative Branches.
Jeff Immelt cuts worker pay while GE gets government bailouts, reports $14 Billion in profits and pays no taxes, while shipping jobs to China. And his payback - appointment to head the US economic development council. I can't even count the number of ways that this is so unbelievably wrong.
**** I think I'm going to get back to discussing precious metals. It's hard sometimes to separate cause & effect, and this thread's been no exception.****
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Explain TBTF then?
Jamie Dimon, Lloyd Blankfein & George Soros wield disproportionate influence over the Executive & Legislative Branches.
Jeff Immelt cuts worker pay while GE gets government bailouts, reports $14 Billion in profits and pays no taxes, while shipping jobs to China. And his payback - appointment to head the US economic development council. I can't even count the number of ways that this is so unbelievably wrong. >>
The mob finally learned how to avoid the law. Become the law.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Boy, I take one little ole 13 hour plane ride and this thread goes off the tracks during that time. Never saw that coming
MJ >>
You have to admit -- prob one of the most informative hijack/derailments on the PM forum in a long time. My hats off to the participants!
<< <i>In Chicago, current minimum manning levels are 5 people per engine and truck, but 35 of the approx 160 total engines/trucks are placed on a daily manning variance, so 125 of those crews have 5, and the other 35 have 4 people. The city has wanted 4 man companies throughout for as long as I have been on the job. >>
Five! Wow ... I worked many days 3 & 3, most were 4 & 3
Most minds are made up and are not going to be changed. It's been branded in their brain, labor unions ... BAD, and your accurate detailed posts probably become background noise.
<< <i>
<< <i>Boy, I take one little ole 13 hour plane ride and this thread goes off the tracks during that time. Never saw that coming
MJ >>
You have to admit -- prob one of the most informative hijack/derailments on the PM forum in a long time. My hats off to the participants!
I admit that whenever "unions" are brought up in this forum I head for the hills. I've lived this thread my entire life growing up a conservative in a liberal household in Detroit. I don't bother anymore as I've debated this at every angle.
The word "union" is akin to a live gernade in this forum.
It is kind of fun seeing Phil get all riled up though
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Boy, I take one little ole 13 hour plane ride and this thread goes off the tracks during that time. Never saw that coming
MJ >>
You have to admit -- prob one of the most informative hijack/derailments on the PM forum in a long time. My hats off to the participants!
I admit that whenever "unions" are brought up in this forum I head for the hills. I've lived this thread my entire life growing up a conservative in a liberal household in Detroit. I don't bother anymore as I've debated this at every angle.
The word "union" is akin to a live gernade in this forum.
It is kind of fun seeing Phil get all riled up though
MJ >>
Derry and a few others put a quarter in me. All is well though. Im intelligent enough to understand that we wont all agree on all issues, and I can see the opposition's point of view.....alot of it does make sense. My biggest problem is that there are literally DOZENS of MILLIONS of Americans currently "mooching" off the government via welfare, and yet its the public workers that are the reason states/municipalities are failing? Im actually adding value to my community, and my neighbor is not working and is on food stamps.....but IM the problem??? Very twisted logic indeed!
<< <i>Derry and a few others put a quarter in me. All is well though. Im intelligent enough to understand that we wont all agree on all issues, and I can see the opposition's point of view.....alot of it does make sense. My biggest problem is that there are literally DOZENS of MILLIONS of Americans currently "mooching" off the government via welfare, and yet its the public workers that are the reason states/municipalities are failing? Im actually adding value to my community, and my neighbor is not working and is on food stamps.....but IM the problem??? Very twisted logic indeed! >>
I stand with Gecko. He should be the last one we pull off the teet.
Federal deficit is not as "serious" a problem to those depending on federal money because the feds can print what they need. If we can get the states to print there own currency, I vote Gecko get a raise. However, don't look for me to support any federal bailout to aid the states in need. For the record, I never accused him of being the problem. My position: underfunded public sector pensions and benefits are a problem that shouldn't be passed on to taxpayers in the form of higher taxes.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
BUT, so far, everywhere we go in USA, dollars still in circulation! Paid $4.50/gal for unleaded yesterday in Baker, California, and lunch at the Mad Greek was $25
(the cash comfortably carried in normal wallet, no wheelbarrows of currency required)
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
In the monster economic conditions thread 2 or 3 years ago Gold Saint actually totaled everything we pay in taxes. State, Local Fed, Tolls, Sales, Gas Tax, Fees, etc and its already at 50% income. You can't tax anymore if you don't have anything else to squeeze.
Box of 20
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
Some cities are already laying off workers so they can give their jobs to those on welfare. By law they are all required to work for their handouts, but most do not and it is rarely enforced.
MTA may put welfare recepients to work
Box of 20
<< <i>Good observation Baley. This morning when I walked to the end of my driveway to get the newspaper, my neighbors were out walking thier dogs and enjoying the morning sun. I think I even saw a few of them smiling. I chit-chatted with a few of them before going in to make coffee. It was almost like life was carrying on in a normal fashion. >>
I hear what you and Baley are saying. However, when I read it it sounds like Rod Serling is narrating and it is crepping me out a little. A little too happy. Watch out for the neighbor who smiles the most and calls you Mr Downtown even though he has lived on the same block with you for years and is older then you. That one is usually the zombie in the end. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
if those micro people don't want to or can't understand the problem that the public sector has gone from 18% GDP to almost 24% in the past couple of years.... while revenues from the private sector are shrinking like a prune in the sun...then I revert to my axiom, 'you can't teach a pig to sing'
It's been made to look like class warfare...and it's not....it's about taxation without representation and maybe a good old fashioned revolution would solve a lot of problems. The debate seems to be....OH, we're already understaffed--see we're not the problem. OH, we need a union because cities hate us and aren't looking out for our safety. OH, class sizes are going up-gawd forbid that that's horrible.
The problem is, we're not hearing from the city librarians in San Diego who are making $225,000 per year in retirement, or the firechiefs who lump all their benefits in their last years salary and retire at $200,000+ per year and get hired on for another $100,000 for 6 months to allow the city to find a replacement that should have been in place(that would be Riverside, CA or Moraga, CA), or city managers who are pulling down $800,000+ per year because they figured out to really get to the public trough(that would be Bell, CA or Vernon, CA).
You're not hearing from these people because it would not be in their best interest to speak up because those people are symptomatic of what is just the tip of the iceberg. TOP 10 retirees in SAn Diego last year represent a $60 million dollar liability to the CALPERS PUBLIC RETIREMENT SYSTEM that is PRIVATELY FUNDED, PRIVATELY BACKSTOPPED retirement system. MY TAXES.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
I spent 3 weeks in suburban Chicagoland last year. I loved it. Except for the heat and humidity in June.
BUT please remember,
CAL public employees in conjunction with the POLS and the public unions have gloriously and quietly figured out how to fabulously game the system. NOW that they are being called into account for it....is it no wonder that those unions supported the retread we now have in the governers seat that when he was AG he did nothing to bring those city managers to justice, except when he could get a little free publicity right before the election? Or that current same governer whose boyfriend was governer in 1999 when that governer promoted and signed the bill that allowed public unions to game their retirement by last year 'salary' shenanigans. And who got reelected in part by contributions from those those same unions? That same governer. We were massaged by being told it would cost no more than about $300 million for this change....but now it seems that it's about $3 billion.....and climbing...every year.
Or the teachers union which orchestrated the nannygate against MEG WHITMAN when said MEG WHITMAN was lambaisted for not paying her ILLEGAL NANNY--who lied about her false CDL with FALSE documentation and records show that ILLEGAL NANNy was paid over $23/hr. That same NANNY who hasn't been prosecuted for forging documents to the state of CAL. Forgery is difficult to prove because it would require proof of intent. In this case, intent is pretty clear.
Or the teachers union....the same teachers who are required to donate to their union regardless of that teachers personal political belief and that same union that gives nearly all it's money to the same government officials who support more $$$ and benefits to the union members. The same teachers who have made the CAL public schools the worst in the nation...below Ark. & Miss. We used to joke about why Miss. existed...so we Californians wouldn't have the worst schools in the nation. We can't even make THAT joke anymore. Most CAL school teachers won't even put their own children into the public schools here.
Or the prison guard union that negotiated for no metal detectors at employee entrances so now the guards bring in the cell phones to the charles mansons and shot callers inside prison walls and over 10,000 were confiscated recently.
The police and fire unions, the SEIU, the prison guard unions, the teachers unions, the janitors union...JHC-do we need any more public unions?
WE are PUBLIC UNIONED to death out here and most of those people do not need unions in the present form. We are corrupt city officialled to death out here. We are illegal aliened to death out here. I am taxed to death out here.
WE do need a REVOLUTION because that may be the only way to stop this nonsense.
And it's just not CAL that is FUBARD. It's coming to a city county or state near you if it hasn't already got there. I am the one who is fubard because I can't run to the Caymans right now and sip mai tai's.
I am the one who is expected to pay for this mess because I got an education paid for by my parents sweat with after tax dollars and pay taxes out of income from my sweat. My dad worked at least 70 hours a week to live well...because that is what was required. I probably am close to that. The reason I have to is because the government needs my money to pay for pendejos who need my money. I'm sick to death of it.
AND right now, so are a lot of Americans. And we will act.
I would never come on here and be-little anyone for putting food on your table wether your flipping burgers or performing a triple by-pass.
Imagine if you lost your job streeter. You were out of work for a while, collecting un-employment, had to rely on government aid to get by. A few weeks of looking for a job turns into a few months and so-on.
Now, that is why the system is in place. To help hard working people like yourself, until your able to stand on your feet again. How would you feel to see people viewing you as a lazy waste of tax dollars? How would you feel to get lumped in with the people who really do abuse government entitlements? Even though you are pounding the pavement everyday trying to find work, you wear that scarlet letter.
I dont think you would appreciate it, and you would have every right to defend yourself when people start slinging mud at you.
Hope you can understand where Im coming from.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
<< <i>streeter, I really do understand your frustration. I am open minded enough to see your point of view, and I respect it. But, I hope you can realize why people like Gecko and I defend our position. Not as union members, but as firefighters. We take quite a beating on here for a job we take pride in doing.
I would never come on here and be-little anyone for putting food on your table wether your flipping burgers or performing a triple by-pass.
Imagine if you lost your job streeter. You were out of work for a while, collecting un-employment, had to rely on government aid to get by. A few weeks of looking for a job turns into a few months and so-on.
Now, that is why the system is in place. To help hard working people like yourself, until your able to stand on your feet again. How would you feel to see people viewing you as a lazy waste of tax dollars? How would you feel to get lumped in with the people who really do abuse government entitlements? Even though you are pounding the pavement everyday trying to find work, you wear that scarlet letter.
I dont think you would appreciate it, and you would have every right to defend yourself when people start slinging mud at you.
Hope you can understand where Im coming from. >>
Downtown,
thank you for the reminder of social resposibility. It may not appear that I am aware of it. I am.
You and sweat and Phil take the position that you are personally being maligned. I do believe that is just not the case with 99% of the people here. A little ribbing possibly but I think that when you get serious on this forum, nobody resents LEO or FD. My best bud in High school just retired a capt from FD in the Bay Area where I grew up.
I rarely share personal info on a public forum. There is a reason for that if you'd like to know, pls PM me. Just let me make a couple of comments that might allow you to understand my position. After my dad sold his business, he joined the sheriffs dept as they were having a tough time hiring people in the late 70's and 80's hiring capable execs that knew which end was up with LE and my dad was a pretty successful misguided child in WWII and blended in very well with the dept. My dad was very quietly devastated when I chose to attend UC Berkeley in stead of pursuing Col. Springs as my uncle was Chief MST SGT of the USAF and I was told that it was a slam dunk for acceptance. I had no intention of returning from Vietnam in a pine box. Downtown, I'm no chicken, but that war was unnecessary. My nickname in HS was 'bleeding heart'. That's what they called linebackers in those days in high school when they were your friend. I don't know what they called me behind my back because I didn't care. Needless to say I have always been at least mildly political and am still outspoken with my opinion. I usually think before I speak. I met some pretty 'interesting' people at Berkeley...including but not limited to a couple of the AH's who currently reside in HYDE PARK and some other of their associates.
My father sold that business---which I was part heir to because in part, he was PO'd that I attended Berkeley. So I had basically no choice but to build a business to show the old man he made a mistake for his decision. It's been 40 years since I enrolled at CAL and quite a few things have changed in this country. I am not worried about losing my job, DOWNTOWN. I am the job. I don't sign the rear of the check, I sign the front. It's my guys not eating and their kids not being educated that concerns me. I'll always be alright. Don't be concerned for me. I'm concerned for what I 'see' is coming down the line as we are facing the black hole of the financial abyss in this country. We are being dragged into conflicts that are BKi'ng us, we are borrowing to finance things that are not earned by our citizens and non citizens, we have an elite spineless self-serving political class and we are fostering an entire generation of self entitlement that hasn't reached it's zenith.
I have a lot of members of my family who are in public service..and they almost all lack the gene of private enterprise. Some have the gene for belittling private enterprise. My three aunts were school teachers, my sister is a retired school teascher, two of my uncles were college professors, my cousin is a retired college professor. I grew up around people who helped other people.
Downtown, I am not speaking about or condescendingly to people who are down and out. Heck, there have been times when I wondered if I could pay myself that month. I understand about how people need a hand sometimes.
What I am saying is that the BIG PICTURE is FUBAR. When idiots like me are fubared it's just that many more employees that will go onto the public dole if I fall flat. I have enough assets. It's not me I'm worried about.
I knew it would happen.
I appreciate your being respectful in our little debate. Too many times I have seen people resort to name calling and being Mr. Internet tough guy. That wasnt the case here and I want to thank you.
Its too bad the government cant get together and talk with civility. There is a common ground that can be reached. But, we pit ourselves against eachother like rabid dogs. I have grown tired of it.
Take care streeter,
Bob
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
My spouse was a volunteer Fireperson for 15 years......... average of 15 hours a week. Pay- $1,000/year, Pension - Zip (nothing), Service to the community - Priceless!
Time for another government shut down. I remember the last one, it's not so bad.
Don't worry, I'll be working to keep this great land moving forward.
Instead of SHTF, it's GHTF. (Government Hits The Fan)
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Ralph Kramden
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
You were missed Baley. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>What i see from the Debt to GDP chart is that the level of debt isn't as high as it was at the end of WWII. Now, I'm sure economic conditions weren't great from 1945-1970 but there was no one pushing around wheelbarrows full of money or total meltdown of the dollar.
Also noted that the slope of the current period is similar to that of WWII, guess we are fighting 3 different wars now (but how would it be funded if it become the kind of scale WWII was?)
I think the work ethic of the young and old today is different than it was in 1945-1970. Today nearly half the nation is on some form of welfare. I don't see the determination in the sheeple to save this country. Sure, there are pockets of "patriots" asserting themselves but I don't think it's enough.
Self-governance is out of style. The concept of what "America" was back then compared to what "Amerika" is today are on opposite ends of the spectrum. A major economic disaster is all the "one's" are waiting for.
Two (or six) more years of BHO should see that red line spike higher than WWII. If America fails, who will bail us out?
Yeah, those folks living and driving in Hawaii are really having it tough!
Are you suggesting that a gallon of gas in Maui should cost the same as a gallon of gas in Houston?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Gas is now over $6 per gallon in Hawaii according to the news. Are we seeing a slow motion "collapse"?
Yeah, those folks living and driving in Hawaii are really having it tough!
Are you suggesting that a gallon of gas in Maui should cost the same as a gallon of gas in Houston? >>
Just an example of prices going up---or the value of the dollar going down. Many economists think the real inflation rate is now about 10% per year. With compounding that rate, the dollar will lose half its value in about 8 years.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yes, prices are trending up for some things in some places and times, and down for other things in other places and times. Nothing new.
think the work ethic of the young and old today is different than it was in 1945-1970. Today nearly half the nation is on some form of welfare. I don't see the determination in the sheeple to save this country. Sure, there are pockets of "patriots" asserting themselves but I don't think it's enough.
Self-governance is out of style. The concept of what "America" was back then compared to what "Amerika" is today are on opposite ends of the spectrum. A major economic disaster is all the "one's" are waiting for.
Two (or six) more years of BHO should see that red line spike higher than WWII. If America fails, who will bail us out?
that would be interesting if "the work ethic" were one uniform thing. Do you see All of "the young and old" as One Thing that can be described so blithely, or are we talking about the Common Denominator to make such proclamations? Your reference to "the sheeple", does that include you and me? who are these sheeple?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Oh, I thought you were using it as an example of the supply/demand/price relationship as it relates to geographic arbitrage... because the logistics of getting fuel to a pump in Lahaina (or the middle of New York City, or Paris, or Yosemite valley, for examples) make fuel cost more in those places than those near oil wells and refineries)
Yes, prices are trending up for some things in some places and times, and down for other things in other places and times. Nothing new.
think the work ethic of the young and old today is different than it was in 1945-1970. Today nearly half the nation is on some form of welfare. I don't see the determination in the sheeple to save this country. Sure, there are pockets of "patriots" asserting themselves but I don't think it's enough.
Self-governance is out of style. The concept of what "America" was back then compared to what "Amerika" is today are on opposite ends of the spectrum. A major economic disaster is all the "one's" are waiting for.
Two (or six) more years of BHO should see that red line spike higher than WWII. If America fails, who will bail us out?
that would be interesting if "the work ethic" were one uniform thing. Do you see All of "the young and old" as One Thing that can be described so blithely, or are we talking about the Common Denominator to make such proclamations? Your reference to "the sheeple", does that include you and me? who are these sheeple? >>
Sheeple: those who lack critical thinking and march in lock step where the media/political class wants them to go. They are anesticized by Dancing with the Stars, Charlie Sheen, American Idol, Donald Trump, etc. They follow blindly and never question their leaders.
I don't know you personally but I don't think you are sheeple....could be wrong. You tell me.
"Work ethic" and "the young and old": Just making a generalization. I'm just pointing out that I don't think we have what it takes to get out of our (Country's) financial mess. I hope I'm wrong.
1) Doin' alright. How about you, Baley? Everything ok out there?
2) Wheelbarrow, still taking clay out of flowerbed to fill holes in the yard dug by the Chessie, and still filling the flowerbed with Miracle Gro dirt. Not using it for cash yet.
3) Nobody's tried to force their way in at my place yet, prolly cause of the dogs and the fence.
4) Fubar? No, not beyond reality. But not even close to the Baleyville where I grew up, either.
FUBAR LEVEL = holding steady at 48.5%. (50% is critical mass)
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>So, as of today, there's food on the grocery store shelves, fuel at the gas stations, the power and water are on at home, the schools and churches and all the stores are open, and we get paid in US dollars, and people and merchants accept them as payment for goods and services.
Let's keep each other posted if any of this changes... >>
I love this
don't mind Renman....his radio just got stuck on Alex Jones
Plan for the future, drive less --think more--- and buy from those who don't and can't.
My two foot tomato plants have little greenies, all is well.
The only real question to be asked is "what will happen after?" Will this just be the end of the dollar?
<< <i>We have created system where millions of people have captured all the wealth and then wrote hundreds of trillions of IOUs to themselves entitling themselves to the future labor of the millions who are under 40 and are entering a workforce with few decent jobs. Add to that the cost of a corrupt financial system, a corrupt government and a future designed around endless wars and its not hard to see the where the word "unsustainable" can fit.
The only real question to be asked is "what will happen after?" Will this just be the end of the dollar? >>
Agreed. The current system is unsustainable. Thats why i believe it will be changed "by the under 40 laborforce". The USA will flourish, as will the US dollar.
Finally got the garden rototilled. Has rained for nearly 3 straight weeks. Will be planted this week. Not sure I want to try to grow a single 1000# pumpkin or several 300-400 pounders.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Doom and Gloomers will always be with us. I think the US will come out of the kink and will ok one day. Maybe not in the next few years, but we'll fight back and look good.
I've already enjoyed several batches of red-skinned 'taters from my garden, have corn 3' high and lots of blooms on the 'mater plants. Still have power to the well to water my goats and cows to keep them fat and happy.
Gas is actually tracking down a few cents to $3.76. Just filled up yesterday and guess what? yep, they're taking cash still. Can you believe you can trade 3 or 4 pieces of paper for a gallon of gas? and only this time 5 years ago gas was higher!
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>welcome back Baley,
don't mind Renman....his radio just got stuck on Alex Jones
Plan for the future, drive less --think more--- and buy from those who don't and can't.
My two foot tomato plants have little greenies, all is well. >>
Who's Alex Jones?
My potatoes got "fried" two weeks ago due to a late season frost. Now it looks like they've have shaken it off and are sprouting green again. Same thing happened to my grapes. They are fine now. My strawberries surprise me every year. In the Fall I put a healthy heapin' of grass clippings on them. They sit buried under snow for two months and come April they sprout through the clippings.
(And now, here is a voice)
Toe to toe dancing very close
Body breathing almost comatose
Wall to wall people hypnotised
And they're stepping lightly
Hang each night in rapture
Back to back sacroiliac
Spineless movement and a wild attack
Face to face sightless solitude
And it's finger popping
Twenty four hour shopping in rapture
(The world is very different now
For man holds in his mortal hand
The power to abolish
All forms of human poverty
And all forms of human life)
Fab Five Freddy told me everybody's fly
DJ spinning I said "My, My"
Flash is fast flash is cool
Francois c'est pas flashe non due
And you don't stop sure shot
Go out to the parking lot
And you get in your car and drive real far
And you drive all night and then you see a light
And it comes right down and it lands on the ground
And out comes the man from Mars
And you try to run but he's got a gun
And he shoots you dead and he eats your head
And then you're in the man from Mars
You go out at night eating cars
You eat Cadillacs Lincolns too
Mercurys and Subaru
And you don't stop
You keep on eating cars
Then when there's no more cars you go out at night
And eat up bars where the people meet
Face to face
Dance cheek to cheek
One to one
Man to man
Dance toe to toe
Don't move too slow 'cause the man from Mars is through with cars
He's eating bars
Yeah wall to wall
Door to door
Hall to hall
He's gonna eat 'em all
Rapture
Be pure
Take a tour through the sewer
Don't strain your brain
Paint a train
You'll be singing in the rain
Said don't stop to the punk rock
(We are here today, not a victory of party)
(Party)
(Good record)
(And now, here is a voice)
Well now you see what you wanna be
Just have your party on TV
'Cause the man from Mars won't eat up bars where the TV's on
And now he's gone back up to space
Where he won't have a hassle with the human race
And you hip hop
And you don't stop
Just blast off sure shot
Because the man from Mars stopped eating cars
And eating bars
And now he only eats guitars
Get up!
Ooh, oh
Ooh, oh
Ooh, oh
Ooh, oh
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Will I be called
Is it Doomsday yet?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
what did you decide about those big pumpkins, Cohodk?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
it's comin'