Funny you should ask: The meal costs the same in US dollars as it did last week, last year, and two years ago. (I did recieve change from my purchase, and amazingly, $6.85 is just about the right number.)
Same size and quality sandwich, same weight for the chip bag, same 12 oz. can of Pepsi.
Funny thing is: in years past, it took me more minutes to earn enough money to pay for it!
And since I spent dollars earned this year, not dollars earned last year or last decade or back when I was mowing lawns, the price to me, in terms of labor units, is going DOWN!
<< <i>Beautiful Spring day in Baleyville. Checking in with a "fabric of society" newsflash:
Paying for my lunch today, when given the choice of a crispy $10 Federal Reserve Note or an AU 1962 Franklin half, the cashier chose the $10 bill as payment for my sandwich, chips, and soda.
Everyone else pay for items with FRNs recently, or have any of you been bartering silver and lead yet? >>
If you think everything will be like it is in 20 years as it is today, then continue on with your love and trust of the FRN. If you can see the blatant signs on the wall, and look forward a tiny bit, you will soon come to the realization that the dollar is a dying species.
Imagine driving on a highway...going 65 mph, and simply scanning the road thats just 10 feet in front of you, rather than scanning the big picture as you drive. Chances are you would be dead within a few minutes or even seconds. Yep, no problems with this road! Looks nice and stable for the next 10 feet! BAM!
<< <i>Beautiful Spring day in Baleyville. Checking in with a "fabric of society" newsflash:
Paying for my lunch today, when given the choice of a crispy $10 Federal Reserve Note or an AU 1962 Franklin half, the cashier chose the $10 bill as payment for my sandwich, chips, and soda.
Everyone else pay for items with FRNs recently, or have any of you been bartering silver and lead yet? >>
If you think everything will be like it is in 20 years as it is today, then continue on with your love and trust of the FRN. If you can see the blatant signs on the wall, and look forward a tiny bit, you will soon come to the realization that the dollar is a dying species.
Imagine driving on a highway...going 65 mph, and simply scanning the road thats just 10 feet in front of you, rather than scanning the big picture as you drive. Chances are you would be dead within a few minutes or even seconds. Yep, no problems with this road! Looks nice and stable for the next 10 feet! BAM! >>
Some people are in great denial. The fog the fed has created has blinded many. $37 Silver and $1440 gold is simply a refection of how F$$ked up the economy is, but people don't believe it.
"Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
Seeing people going about their lives, blissfully having lunch, conversations, pleasantries... clear blue sky, sunshine and 80 degrees out, trees starting to green up....
kids playing and going to school, parents working and keeping house, friends getting together and laughing about funny stories.
Nobody realizes how miserable they are! someone should tell them! Someone should shout at their stupid ignorant faces that the world is ending!
FFirst we have no COLA increases from gov't for Soc. Sec.
Then General Mills talks of inflation,
then Walmart warns of inflation Still, inflation is "going to be serious," Wal-Mart U.S. CEO Bill Simon said during a meeting with USA TODAY's editorial board. "We're seeing cost increases starting to come through at a pretty rapid rate."
Eventually the currency markets will wake up to what is happening in the USA.
<< <i>Seeing people going about their lives, blissfully having lunch, conversations, pleasantries... clear blue sky, sunshine and 80 degrees out, trees starting to green up....
kids playing and going to school, parents working and keeping house, friends getting together and laughing about funny stories.
Nobody realizes how miserable they are! someone should tell them! Someone should shout at their stupid ignorant faces that the world is ending!
Don't they realize?!? >>
Who claims the world is ending Baley? Thats quite a claim indeed! All im saying is that our financial tools are in for some change. By the way Baley, out of all those "happy" and "blissful" families you see every day, I have to wonder how many of them are on food stamps. There are 43,000,000 people on them as of today in America. So look around Baley....the next time you stroll through the park seeing all the medicated......I mean "blissful" people. One in every 8 of those people only eats because the government feeds them. Just how much longer can that pace be kept up, and what happens when that ends? Look ahead my man, its coming.
All right Cassandra, I mean gecko , that's what this thread is for, exchange of opinions, and mixing of metaphors. Let's keep each other informed...
and I'll bet you any amount of US dollars you name, that US Dollars don't cease to exist, within any time frame you name. If they do go extinct, I'll pay you. If they don't, and time runs out, you pay me. Deal?
<< <i>Seeing people going about their lives, blissfully having lunch, conversations, pleasantries... clear blue sky, sunshine and 80 degrees out, trees starting to green up....
Don't they realize?!? >>
They probably do realize that gas is $4.00 a gallon. That makes them smile, I'm sure. They're happy the cost of lunch keeps going up. That makes them blissful. And the sun shines and trees turn green. They're happy to that whatever it is they're purchasing on the way home from their lovely day in the park, that they have to spend more $$ this year than they did last, unless of course they're buying a home. Oh, but if they have to sell their home and move into an larger one because they're having more blissful and innocent children but they can't sell their existing home. But that makes them happy too and everything is peaceful in the Happy Valley.... Smile, be Happy.
"Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
<< Imagine driving on a highway...going 65 mph, and simply scanning the road thats just 10 feet in front of you, rather than scanning the big picture as you drive. Chances are you would be dead within a few minutes or even seconds. Yep, no problems with this road! Looks nice and stable for the next 10 feet! BAM! >>
In California this condition is what's known as TULE FOG.
You drive 55, can't see the leading edge of your hood and pray that no one stalls in lanes in front of you. IFR for the road. Tough on the nerves.
I believe I can out out run zombies as they are sort of slow. I just need to remember not to look back while I'm running. That always seems to be the downfall of many in the movies as they trip over an old tree root or beer bottle.
that's right MJ, the zombies tend to lurch along rather slowly, yet they are relentless. Don't look back and trip, it will catch up...
and if you get the drop on a zombie, ffsake, finish the job, don't just knock it down and run away, it will keep coming. seen that before
It is nice to see folks backing off the end-of-life-as-we-know-it conspriacy theories from all the sensational books and websites, and conceding that the 200+ year old US Dollar's, (America's unit of currency) foretold demise is being measured in "in 20 years," and perhaps 5% annual inflation figures, and is moderated to "some people in specific circumstances are hurtin'", and more welfare and more expensive wars (none of which is new to human history). Maybe this time it's not that different after all
<< <i>I believe I can out out run zombies as they are sort of slow. I just need to remember not to look back while I'm running. That always seems to be the downfall of many in the movies as they trip over an old tree root or beer bottle.
that's right MJ, the zombies tend to lurch along rather slowly, yet they are relentless. Don't look back and trip, it will catch up...
and if you get the drop on a zombie, ffsake, finish the job, don't just knock it down and run away, it will keep coming. seen that before
It is nice to see folks backing off the end-of-life-as-we-know-it conspriacy theories from all the sensational books and websites, and conceding that the 200+ year old US Dollar's, (America's unit of currency) foretold demise is being measured in "in 20 years," and perhaps 5% annual inflation figures, and is moderated to "some people in specific circumstances are hurtin'", and more welfare and more expensive wars (none of which is new to human history). Maybe this time it's not that different after all >>
The USD is not 200+ years old. In fact...in its current form....its only 40 years old.
It is nice to see folks backing off the end-of-life-as-we-know-it conspriacy theories from all the sensational books and websites, and conceding that the 200+ year old US Dollar's, (America's unit of currency) foretold demise is being measured in "in 20 years," and perhaps 5% annual inflation figures, and is moderated to "some people in specific circumstances are hurtin'", and more welfare and more expensive wars (none of which is new to human history). Maybe this time it's not that different after all
lol, what are you rambling on about, Baley? To be honest, I've never actually seen a real-live rolling train wreck in person - but that doesn't mean I wouldn't know it when I saw it. Same goes for our economic system.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>All right Cassandra, I mean gecko , that's what this thread is for, exchange of opinions, and mixing of metaphors. Let's keep each other informed...
and I'll bet you any amount of US dollars you name, that US Dollars don't cease to exist, within any time frame you name. If they do go extinct, I'll pay you. If they don't, and time runs out, you pay me. Deal? [/q
You seem like a fairly young man, if i place the bet and win your frns will be worthless. Would you be willing to wager metals? What would be a reasonable time frame for said bet? I would like MJ or Gecko to oversee this little experiement. Interested? Jason
Another sunny day in Illinois. The sun is out and children are playing and laughing. And their fathers are so happy and joyful. The state raised income taxes 60 percent so that their earnings power has shrunk. And the Cubs start playing ball today. Everyone is smiling. Businesses are shutting down because the Gov. raised corporate taxes. Isn't that lovely. My friend loves his kids and wives. He's a venture capitalist and has opened 11 businesses in Illinois but told me he won't open any more here because of new corporate tax rates. Isn't that lovely. Everyone in other states will be so happy, except probably California or New York...he won't open businesses there either. But the sun is shining.
"Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
<You seem like a fairly young man, if i place the bet and win your frns will be worthless. Would you be willing to wager metals? What would be a reasonable time frame for said bet? I would like MJ or Gecko to oversee this little experiement. Interested? Jason>
MJ does not have time to oversee said experiment. He is too busy reading the piecesofme Peace dollar mini series. So many twists and turns in that epic thread. However, If Lamar Burton smoehow makes his way into his thread I'm out. I don't have that much free time................MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Another sunny day in Illinois. The sun is out and children are playing and laughing. And their fathers are so happy and joyful. >>
Sounds like a beautiful Sunday morning at Pearl Harbor many years ago....right before the SHTF. A classic case of not being prepared. >>
Oh, it's wonderful in Illinois. I just returned from the store--I'm so happy I only pay 9.75% sales tax. It's okay though because the tax only eats away at my earnings power and I'm still happy because I live in the Happy Valley. Take my $$....stick your taxes up my A$$. I'll bend over so it's easier...but the sun doesn't shine there.
"Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
Immoral. Here in MD we pay 6% but I think this will be going up soon too. They will also increase the tolls, MTA fares(sticking it to those that still have jobs), etc this year also.
Would you know a rolling train wreck if YOU saw one?
Baley, do you happen to know anyone who might be having trouble with their finances, or who might be having trouble finding a job, or who might be a bit stressed out over their tax bill?
You and I aren't having those problems, but I come into contact with plenty of people who do. And that's no lie.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
So are you saying any of this is "different" from any time in human history? I mean, other than the percentage of such economically challenged people are above average in the present time?
Or a few percentage points more tax now than at other times past? What I'm asking is, fundamentally different now, that is so troubling TODAY?
You're being taxed by the government on behalf of so many "dependents" you don't even know, and that's ramping up. I agree this is a problem.
I've never claimed anything was perfect, just objecting to those who state or imply that the Dollar, the very fabric of American economic society is dying.
Baley, I was going to reply with some stark realities in my own little world, but I'll spare you the melodrama. Suffice it to say that the fabric of our society is, and has been under attack, and that includes the dollar.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
At what point would you admit that the dollar is dying? What evidence would it take?
The dollar doesn't have a cold or the sniffles. It has the flu and the trouble is that it is spreading like one. Prepare and at least get a financial flu shot for yourself if you haven't already. Maybe you already have.
Carry on blissfully
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I will be in So Cal on Monday? Keep my beers cold and the barbie hot.
Oh, so even if it takes a wheelbarrow full of US dolllars to buy that proverbial loaf of bread you will still cling to the king dollar theory and not admit that it's over? I believe in the movie Soylent Green that they showed Edward G Robinson a flim clip of Baleyville before they shut off his lights for good. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I will be in So Cal on Monday? Keep my beers cold and the barbie hot.
Oh, so even if it takes a wheelbarrow full of US dolllars to buy that proverbial loaf of bread you will still cling to the king dollar theory and not admit that it's over? I believe in the movie Soylent Green that they showed Edward G Robinson a flim clip of Baleyville before they shut off his lights for good. MJ >>
I think Baley's point is that its just fine that a loaf of bread will cost a wheel barrow full of dollars.....AS LONG AS Baley's salary is 30,000 wheel barrows of dollars per year. Im serious...thats his whole premise, as misguided as it is.
FYI, if they ever start printing $1000 bills again..............never mind. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I think Baley's point is that its just fine that a loaf of bread will cost a wheel barrow full of dollars.....AS LONG AS Baley's salary is 30,000 wheel barrows of dollars per year. Im serious...thats his whole premise, as misguided as it is.
Reductum ad absurdum. Great tactic.
OK: Gecko's point is that the only meaningful measurement to take or care about in the whole wide universe, is the rate of change in the cost, in US dollars, of a loaf of bread.
Obviously, to state a trite little line that isn't even accurate is "misguided" in describing one's philosophy of life.
Tell ya what! I'll sound the hyperinflation alarm myself when the price of a loaf (a sourdough bagette, or a sliced wheat, not some fancy diamond dust and gold leaf crust loaf)
what? doubles? Let's say if someone pays $10 for a loaf of bread, in a confirmed, free-choice-market transaction, we come on here and I type the word "HYPERINFLATION" and "They were right" 100 times?
PM me if anyone wants to make it more interesting
Sorry, socal party was yesterday. Meet me in Vegas!
I'm in Vegas Tuesday night! Can we have that beer then?.............leaving for Michigan on Weds and LA/Seattle the following week if any of those places are better. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
"Gecko's point is that the only meaningful measurement to take or care about in the whole wide universe, is the rate of change in the cost, in US dollars, of a loaf of bread."
You have me pegged all wrong Baley. My contention is that the current levels of debt accumulation are entirely unsustainable. We have hopped on the vertical part of an exponential function Baley. I dont care what a loaf of bread costs today, tomorrow, or even next month. With the chart below, however.....I tend to wonder what that loaf of bread will cost in 5 years, AND I also wonder if my salary will keep lockstep with that increase. If the U.S. cant borrow themselves out of the following graph, then the only other option is to PRINT their way out. If we do hit 10-15% per year inflation (or even more), do you really think you will be getting 15% + raises each year?
<< <i>"Gecko's point is that the only meaningful measurement to take or care about in the whole wide universe, is the rate of change in the cost, in US dollars, of a loaf of bread."
You have me pegged all wrong Baley. My contention is that the current levels of debt accumulation are entirely unsustainable. >>
Geck--FYI only 43 cents of every fed tax dollar goes to pay the interest on the national debt. By 2020 it'll be twice that. What do you suppose a loaf of bread will cost then? Or put another way, how much do you think the value of a US dollar will be then? Huh??
"Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
I'd just be happy if all city, county, state and federal employees just joined the social security system so they could share in the cost and benefits of that lovely ponzi scheme like the rest of us.
And if they were responsible for their own health care costs....what a bonanza.
Public sector employees with unions, what a lovely thought.
When this little scam gets corrected, we may have a chance.
I'd just be happy if all city, county, state and federal employees just joined the social security system so they could share in the cost and benefits of that lovely ponzi scheme like the rest of us.
And if they were responsible for their own health care costs....what a bonanza.
Public sector employees with unions, what a lovely thought.
When this little scam gets corrected, we may have a chance. >>
Any federal employee hired on or after 1984 contributes to the Soc Sec system. Their pension from the US Gov. was also Drematically Reduced.
From approx 1984 on any new hire for city, county or state that doesn't contribute to Soc Sec ... does pay the medical part of Soc Sec.
Union employees, puplic or private are not the cause of your problems.
<< <i>Union employees, puplic or private are not the cause of your problems. >>
I disagree. They are the cause of my higher taxes at the state and local level. The sometimes outrageous pension promises for public "servants" are the problem of state, county and city governments who, unlike the federales, can't print their way out of it. Guess who foots that bill! This wasn't a problem as long as the ponzi kept moving forward. But with the reduction in real estate tax income and fewer people paying taxes because of job losses state, county and city governments are being forced to deal with the growing entitlement debt. Two choices: raise taxes or reduce benefits. The smart politicians are realizing the majority of their taxpayers are not beneficiaries of government employee benefits. Majority rules, end of story.
Unfortunately, bargaining for too much is what eventually drove jobs oversees for the private sector. Those unemployed union members have no one to blame but their greedy leaders who were too stubborn to make the necessary concessions to keep the jobs stateside.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
<< <i>Union employees, puplic or private are not the cause of your problems. >>
I disagree. They are the cause of my higher taxes at the state and local level. The sometimes outrageous pension promises for public "servants" are the problem of state, county and city governments who, unlike the federales, can't print their way out of it. Guess who foots that bill! This wasn't a problem as long as the ponzi kept moving forward. But with the reduction in real estate tax income and fewer people paying taxes because of job losses state, county and city governments are being forced to deal with the growing entitlement debt. Two choices: raise taxes or reduce benefits. The smart politicians are realizing the majority of their taxpayers are not beneficiaries of government employee benefits. Majority rules, end of story.
Unfortunately, bargaining for too much is what eventually drove jobs oversees for the private sector. Those unemployed union members have no one to blame but their greedy leaders who were too stubborn to make the necessary concessions to keep the jobs stateside. >>
Specifically to pensions:
Certainly unions have over reached in some situations and there are some problems. Most of those problems are being handled by unions by giving major concessions in all areas because of the reduced revnue from property taxes as you have noted.
The outrageous pensions "promises" made by local goverments to employees are ......... Contrary to what the news media puts out, it is as much as looking in the rear view mirror while driving down the road. There are no promises. Pension systems are funded for and by workers and local gov over the time of their employment. Pensions systems are seperate from local goverment and the local goverments don't own them. They stand alone. Funding for current employees have now become a problem. There are no promises!
The closest to promises are Soc Sec. But we all know that.
As far as US Gov. pensions for those hired after 1984, what's outragous is the lack of $ dollars they receive during retirement.
If you want to hate the school teacher in Wisconsin or your neighbor that is a local goverment worker ... have at it. They created the problem? Why don't you just take away their right to "ASK"
I would suggest to find the lions share of our countrys problems, google "national debt chart". Lots of charts to chose from .. my favorite is debt to GDP. Here's a hint 1980
Less taxes, less spending, less goverment ... reality ... less taxes, more spending, more debt.
What i see from the Debt to GDP chart is that the level of debt isn't as high as it was at the end of WWII. Now, I'm sure economic conditions weren't great from 1945-1970 but there was no one pushing around wheelbarrows full of money or total meltdown of the dollar.
Also noted that the slope of the current period is similar to that of WWII, guess we are fighting 3 different wars now (but how would it be funded if it become the kind of scale WWII was?)
<< <i>The outrageous pensions "promises" made by local goverments to employees are ......... Contrary to what the news media puts out, it is as much as looking in the rear view mirror while driving down the road. There are no promises. Pension systems are funded for and by workers and local gov over the time of their employment. Pensions systems are seperate from local goverment and the local goverments don't own them. They stand alone. Funding for current employees have now become a problem. There are no promises! >>
A pension is a promise by the employer for income after retirement. State, county and local pension promises are generally funded by small employee contributions and primarily with gains on investments of the pension fund. When fund investments go south, as they did with Walls Streets criminal behavior that surfaced in 2008, the the state, county and local governments (taxpayers) have to honor the retirement promise. Google CALPERS for a prime example of the mess. Public union employees, who are now facing the anger of taxpayers (and their elected officials) who do not want to pay the retirement cost, should really be focusing on the one's who stole from them - Wall Street. Part of the blame falls on state, county and local politicians who made outrageous pension promises just to get the public employee union endorsement/vote.
Wall Street screwed school teachers, and because the taxpayer doesn't want to bailout the failing pension fund with higher taxes, the taxpayer instantly becomes the bad guy. It's just another bailout being forced on the taxpayers who are finally saying "enuff!"
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
<< <i>The outrageous pensions "promises" made by local goverments to employees are ......... Contrary to what the news media puts out, it is as much as looking in the rear view mirror while driving down the road. There are no promises. Pension systems are funded for and by workers and local gov over the time of their employment. Pensions systems are seperate from local goverment and the local goverments don't own them. They stand alone. Funding for current employees have now become a problem. There are no promises! >>
A pension is a promise by the employer for income after retirement. State, county and local pension promises are generally funded by small employee contributions and primarily with gains on investments of the pension fund. When fund investments go south, as they did with Walls Streets criminal behavior that surfaced in 2008, the the state, county and local governments (taxpayers) have to honor the retirement promise. Google CALPERS for a prime example of the mess. Public union employees, who are now facing the anger of taxpayers (and their elected officials) who do not want to pay the retirement cost, should really be focusing on the one's who stole from them - Wall Street. Part of the blame falls on state, county and local politicians who made outrageous pension promises just to get the public employee union endorsement/vote.
Wall Street screwed school teachers, and because the taxpayer doesn't want to bailout the failing pension fund with higher taxes, the taxpayer instantly becomes the bad guy. It's just another bailout being forced on the taxpayers who are finally saying "enuff!" >>
"Small employee contributions"? I pay 9.125% of the GROSS of every single check I receive towards my pension. In an era where most Americans save less than 3% of their TAKEHOME towards retirement, im forced to contribute almost 10% of my pre-tax income. Now im the badguy because after 30 years of putting away 5-7 times more than the average person, i'll have a comfortable retirement? How did THAT happen?
Why are we fighting these wars? For Oil? To stop a terrorist attack? I wonder if that cost of a terrorist attack would be the cost of the all these wars of over a Trillion Dollars.
<< <i>"Small employee contributions"? I pay 9.125% of the GROSS of every single check I receive towards my pension. In an era where most Americans save less than 3% of their TAKEHOME towards retirement, im forced to contribute almost 10% of my pre-tax income. Now im the badguy because after 30 years of putting away 5-7 times more than the average person, i'll have a comfortable retirement? How did THAT happen? >>
You're only the bad guy if you expect taxpayers to foot the rest of your retirement bill. At least you're paying yourself. Everyone is forced to pay into a "retirement" plan of some kind. Less than 10% is small. I pay self-employment taxes of 15.3% that go to social security and medicare and can only hope the ponzi is still in place when it's my turn to get a check in the mailbox.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
You're only the bad guy if you expect taxpayers to foot the rest of your retirement bill. At least you're paying yourself. Everyone is forced to pay into a "retirement" plan of some kind. Less than 10% is small. I pay self-employment taxes of 15.3% that go to social security and medicare and can only hope the ponzi is still in place when it's my turn to get a check in the mailbox.
How much is the total contribution at the end of the day, compared to the total benefit? That would be a reasonable question. A contribution rate of 9.125% doesn't mean much if the benefit amounts to 25% or 35% of someone's total income over his career. That's the real question as far as taxpayer funding is concerned. If anyone wants to throw their plan up for scrutiny, I'm sure we could all chime in and debate whether anyone is being overcompensated or not.
For the record, I have no retirement unless I pay 100% of it, and all I'll receive is how much it's worth when I retire. No guarantees.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Comments
(I did recieve change from my purchase, and amazingly, $6.85 is just about the right number.)
Same size and quality sandwich, same weight for the chip bag, same 12 oz. can of Pepsi.
Funny thing is: in years past, it took me more minutes to earn enough money to pay for it!
And since I spent dollars earned this year, not dollars earned last year or last decade or back when I was mowing lawns, the price to me, in terms of labor units, is going DOWN!
So overall Quality of Life is going UP!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Beautiful Spring day in Baleyville. Checking in with a "fabric of society" newsflash:
Paying for my lunch today, when given the choice of a crispy $10 Federal Reserve Note or an AU 1962 Franklin half, the cashier chose the $10 bill as payment for my sandwich, chips, and soda.
Everyone else pay for items with FRNs recently, or have any of you been bartering silver and lead yet? >>
If you think everything will be like it is in 20 years as it is today, then continue on with your love and trust of the FRN. If you can see the blatant signs on the wall, and look forward a tiny bit, you will soon come to the realization that the dollar is a dying species.
Imagine driving on a highway...going 65 mph, and simply scanning the road thats just 10 feet in front of you, rather than scanning the big picture as you drive. Chances are you would be dead within a few minutes or even seconds. Yep, no problems with this road! Looks nice and stable for the next 10 feet! BAM!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
<< <i>Beautiful Spring day in Baleyville. Checking in with a "fabric of society" newsflash:
Paying for my lunch today, when given the choice of a crispy $10 Federal Reserve Note or an AU 1962 Franklin half, the cashier chose the $10 bill as payment for my sandwich, chips, and soda.
Everyone else pay for items with FRNs recently, or have any of you been bartering silver and lead yet? >>
If you think everything will be like it is in 20 years as it is today, then continue on with your love and trust of the FRN. If you can see the blatant signs on the wall, and look forward a tiny bit, you will soon come to the realization that the dollar is a dying species.
Imagine driving on a highway...going 65 mph, and simply scanning the road thats just 10 feet in front of you, rather than scanning the big picture as you drive. Chances are you would be dead within a few minutes or even seconds. Yep, no problems with this road! Looks nice and stable for the next 10 feet! BAM! >>
Some people are in great denial. The fog the fed has created has blinded many. $37 Silver and $1440 gold is simply a refection of how F$$ked up the economy is, but people don't believe it.
kids playing and going to school, parents working and keeping house, friends getting together and laughing about funny stories.
Nobody realizes how miserable they are! someone should tell them! Someone should shout at their stupid ignorant faces that the world is ending!
Don't they realize?!?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Then General Mills talks of inflation,
then Walmart warns of inflation
Still, inflation is "going to be serious," Wal-Mart U.S. CEO Bill Simon said during a meeting with USA TODAY's editorial board. "We're seeing cost increases starting to come through at a pretty rapid rate."
Eventually the currency markets will wake up to what is happening in the USA.
<< <i>Seeing people going about their lives, blissfully having lunch, conversations, pleasantries... clear blue sky, sunshine and 80 degrees out, trees starting to green up....
kids playing and going to school, parents working and keeping house, friends getting together and laughing about funny stories.
Nobody realizes how miserable they are! someone should tell them! Someone should shout at their stupid ignorant faces that the world is ending!
Don't they realize?!? >>
Who claims the world is ending Baley? Thats quite a claim indeed! All im saying is that our financial tools are in for some change. By the way Baley, out of all those "happy" and "blissful" families you see every day, I have to wonder how many of them are on food stamps. There are 43,000,000 people on them as of today in America. So look around Baley....the next time you stroll through the park seeing all the medicated......I mean "blissful" people. One in every 8 of those people only eats because the government feeds them. Just how much longer can that pace be kept up, and what happens when that ends? Look ahead my man, its coming.
and I'll bet you any amount of US dollars you name, that US Dollars don't cease to exist, within any time frame you name. If they do go extinct, I'll pay you. If they don't, and time runs out, you pay me. Deal?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Seeing people going about their lives, blissfully having lunch, conversations, pleasantries... clear blue sky, sunshine and 80 degrees out, trees starting to green up....
Don't they realize?!? >>
They probably do realize that gas is $4.00 a gallon. That makes them smile, I'm sure. They're happy the cost of lunch keeps going up. That makes them blissful. And the sun shines and trees turn green. They're happy to that whatever it is they're purchasing on the way home from their lovely day in the park, that they have to spend more $$ this year than they did last, unless of course they're buying a home. Oh, but if they have to sell their home and move into an larger one because they're having more blissful and innocent children but they can't sell their existing home. But that makes them happy too and everything is peaceful in the Happy Valley.... Smile, be Happy.
In California this condition is what's known as TULE FOG.
You drive 55, can't see the leading edge of your hood and pray that no one stalls in lanes in front of you. IFR for the road. Tough on the nerves.
that's right MJ, the zombies tend to lurch along rather slowly, yet they are relentless. Don't look back and trip, it will catch up...
and if you get the drop on a zombie, ffsake, finish the job, don't just knock it down and run away, it will keep coming. seen that before
It is nice to see folks backing off the end-of-life-as-we-know-it conspriacy theories from all the sensational books and websites, and conceding that the 200+ year old US Dollar's, (America's unit of currency) foretold demise is being measured in "in 20 years," and perhaps 5% annual inflation figures, and is moderated to "some people in specific circumstances are hurtin'", and more welfare and more expensive wars (none of which is new to human history). Maybe this time it's not that different after all
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>I believe I can out out run zombies as they are sort of slow. I just need to remember not to look back while I'm running. That always seems to be the downfall of many in the movies as they trip over an old tree root or beer bottle.
that's right MJ, the zombies tend to lurch along rather slowly, yet they are relentless. Don't look back and trip, it will catch up...
and if you get the drop on a zombie, ffsake, finish the job, don't just knock it down and run away, it will keep coming. seen that before
It is nice to see folks backing off the end-of-life-as-we-know-it conspriacy theories from all the sensational books and websites, and conceding that the 200+ year old US Dollar's, (America's unit of currency) foretold demise is being measured in "in 20 years," and perhaps 5% annual inflation figures, and is moderated to "some people in specific circumstances are hurtin'", and more welfare and more expensive wars (none of which is new to human history). Maybe this time it's not that different after all >>
The USD is not 200+ years old. In fact...in its current form....its only 40 years old.
lol, what are you rambling on about, Baley? To be honest, I've never actually seen a real-live rolling train wreck in person - but that doesn't mean I wouldn't know it when I saw it. Same goes for our economic system.
I knew it would happen.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>All right Cassandra, I mean gecko
and I'll bet you any amount of US dollars you name, that US Dollars don't cease to exist, within any time frame you name. If they do go extinct, I'll pay you. If they don't, and time runs out, you pay me. Deal?
You seem like a fairly young man, if i place the bet and win your frns will be worthless. Would you be willing to wager metals? What would be a reasonable time frame for said bet? I would like MJ or Gecko to oversee this little experiement. Interested? Jason
<< <i>Another sunny day in Illinois. The sun is out and children are playing and laughing. And their fathers are so happy and joyful. >>
Sounds like a beautiful Sunday morning at Pearl Harbor many years ago....right before the SHTF. A classic case of not being prepared.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
MJ does not have time to oversee said experiment. He is too busy reading the piecesofme Peace dollar mini series. So many twists and turns in that epic thread. However, If Lamar Burton smoehow makes his way into his thread I'm out. I don't have that much free time................MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>Another sunny day in Illinois. The sun is out and children are playing and laughing. And their fathers are so happy and joyful. >>
Sounds like a beautiful Sunday morning at Pearl Harbor many years ago....right before the SHTF. A classic case of not being prepared. >>
Oh, it's wonderful in Illinois. I just returned from the store--I'm so happy I only pay 9.75% sales tax. It's okay though because the tax only eats away at my earnings power and I'm still happy because I live in the Happy Valley. Take my $$....stick your taxes up my A$$. I'll bend over so it's easier...but the sun doesn't shine there.
Immoral. Here in MD we pay 6% but I think this will be going up soon too. They will also increase the tolls, MTA fares(sticking it to those that still have jobs), etc this year also.
Box of 20
Would you know a rolling train wreck if YOU saw one?
Baley, do you happen to know anyone who might be having trouble with their finances, or who might be having trouble finding a job, or who might be a bit stressed out over their tax bill?
You and I aren't having those problems, but I come into contact with plenty of people who do. And that's no lie.
I knew it would happen.
Or a few percentage points more tax now than at other times past? What I'm asking is, fundamentally different now, that is so troubling TODAY?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I've never claimed anything was perfect, just objecting to those who state or imply that the Dollar, the very fabric of American economic society is dying.
Never said the dollar isn't under the weather
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I knew it would happen.
The dollar doesn't have a cold or the sniffles. It has the flu and the trouble is that it is spreading like one. Prepare and at least get a financial flu shot for yourself if you haven't already. Maybe you already have.
Carry on blissfully
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
When the majority of US citizens do their daily financial transactions in a different unit of account.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
It Fryday let's PARTY!
Just spent the past 3 hours icing 4 cases of Karl Strauss and grilling 150 kebabs for the big PARTY we're having Right Now!
Everyone invited! Come on down to So. Cal.!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Oh, so even if it takes a wheelbarrow full of US dolllars to buy that proverbial loaf of bread you will still cling to the king dollar theory and not admit that it's over? I believe in the movie Soylent Green that they showed Edward G Robinson a flim clip of Baleyville before they shut off his lights for good. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I will be in So Cal on Monday? Keep my beers cold and the barbie hot.
Oh, so even if it takes a wheelbarrow full of US dolllars to buy that proverbial loaf of bread you will still cling to the king dollar theory and not admit that it's over? I believe in the movie Soylent Green that they showed Edward G Robinson a flim clip of Baleyville before they shut off his lights for good. MJ >>
I think Baley's point is that its just fine that a loaf of bread will cost a wheel barrow full of dollars.....AS LONG AS Baley's salary is 30,000 wheel barrows of dollars per year. Im serious...thats his whole premise, as misguided as it is.
FYI, if they ever start printing $1000 bills again..............never mind. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Reductum ad absurdum. Great tactic.
OK: Gecko's point is that the only meaningful measurement to take or care about in the whole wide universe, is the rate of change in the cost, in US dollars, of a loaf of bread.
Obviously, to state a trite little line that isn't even accurate is "misguided" in describing one's philosophy of life.
Tell ya what! I'll sound the hyperinflation alarm myself when the price of a loaf (a sourdough bagette, or a sliced wheat, not some fancy diamond dust and gold leaf crust loaf)
what? doubles? Let's say if someone pays $10 for a loaf of bread, in a confirmed, free-choice-market transaction, we come on here and I type the word "HYPERINFLATION" and "They were right" 100 times?
PM me if anyone wants to make it more interesting
Sorry, socal party was yesterday. Meet me in Vegas!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
You have me pegged all wrong Baley. My contention is that the current levels of debt accumulation are entirely unsustainable. We have hopped on the vertical part of an exponential function Baley. I dont care what a loaf of bread costs today, tomorrow, or even next month. With the chart below, however.....I tend to wonder what that loaf of bread will cost in 5 years, AND I also wonder if my salary will keep lockstep with that increase. If the U.S. cant borrow themselves out of the following graph, then the only other option is to PRINT their way out. If we do hit 10-15% per year inflation (or even more), do you really think you will be getting 15% + raises each year?
<< <i>"Gecko's point is that the only meaningful measurement to take or care about in the whole wide universe, is the rate of change in the cost, in US dollars, of a loaf of bread."
You have me pegged all wrong Baley. My contention is that the current levels of debt accumulation are entirely unsustainable. >>
Geck--FYI only 43 cents of every fed tax dollar goes to pay the interest on the national debt. By 2020 it'll be twice that.
What do you suppose a loaf of bread will cost then? Or put another way, how much do you think the value of a US dollar will be then?
Huh??
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I'd just be happy if all city, county, state and federal employees just joined the social security system so they could share in the cost and benefits of that lovely ponzi scheme like the rest of us.
And if they were responsible for their own health care costs....what a bonanza.
Public sector employees with unions, what a lovely thought.
When this little scam gets corrected, we may have a chance.
<< <i>At this point,
I'd just be happy if all city, county, state and federal employees just joined the social security system so they could share in the cost and benefits of that lovely ponzi scheme like the rest of us.
And if they were responsible for their own health care costs....what a bonanza.
Public sector employees with unions, what a lovely thought.
When this little scam gets corrected, we may have a chance. >>
Any federal employee hired on or after 1984 contributes to the Soc Sec system. Their pension from the US Gov. was also Drematically Reduced.
From approx 1984 on any new hire for city, county or state that doesn't contribute to Soc Sec ... does pay the medical part of Soc Sec.
Union employees, puplic or private are not the cause of your problems.
<< <i>Union employees, puplic or private are not the cause of your problems.
I disagree. They are the cause of my higher taxes at the state and local level. The sometimes outrageous pension promises for public "servants" are the problem of state, county and city governments who, unlike the federales, can't print their way out of it. Guess who foots that bill! This wasn't a problem as long as the ponzi kept moving forward. But with the reduction in real estate tax income and fewer people paying taxes because of job losses state, county and city governments are being forced to deal with the growing entitlement debt. Two choices: raise taxes or reduce benefits. The smart politicians are realizing the majority of their taxpayers are not beneficiaries of government employee benefits. Majority rules, end of story.
Unfortunately, bargaining for too much is what eventually drove jobs oversees for the private sector. Those unemployed union members have no one to blame but their greedy leaders who were too stubborn to make the necessary concessions to keep the jobs stateside.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
<< <i>
<< <i>Union employees, puplic or private are not the cause of your problems.
I disagree. They are the cause of my higher taxes at the state and local level. The sometimes outrageous pension promises for public "servants" are the problem of state, county and city governments who, unlike the federales, can't print their way out of it. Guess who foots that bill! This wasn't a problem as long as the ponzi kept moving forward. But with the reduction in real estate tax income and fewer people paying taxes because of job losses state, county and city governments are being forced to deal with the growing entitlement debt. Two choices: raise taxes or reduce benefits. The smart politicians are realizing the majority of their taxpayers are not beneficiaries of government employee benefits. Majority rules, end of story.
Unfortunately, bargaining for too much is what eventually drove jobs oversees for the private sector. Those unemployed union members have no one to blame but their greedy leaders who were too stubborn to make the necessary concessions to keep the jobs stateside. >>
Specifically to pensions:
Certainly unions have over reached in some situations and there are some problems. Most of those problems are being handled by unions by giving major concessions in all areas because of the reduced revnue from property taxes as you have noted.
The outrageous pensions "promises" made by local goverments to employees are ......... Contrary to what the news media puts out, it is as much as looking in the rear view mirror while driving down the road. There are no promises. Pension systems are funded for and by workers and local gov over the time of their employment. Pensions systems are seperate from local goverment and the local goverments don't own them. They stand alone. Funding for current employees have now become a problem. There are no promises!
The closest to promises are Soc Sec. But we all know that.
As far as US Gov. pensions for those hired after 1984, what's outragous is the lack of $ dollars they receive during retirement.
If you want to hate the school teacher in Wisconsin or your neighbor that is a local goverment worker ... have at it. They created the problem? Why don't you just take away their right to "ASK"
I would suggest to find the lions share of our countrys problems, google "national debt chart". Lots of charts to chose from .. my favorite is debt to GDP. Here's a hint 1980
Less taxes, less spending, less goverment ... reality ... less taxes, more spending, more debt.
Enuff!
As soon as China don't need US economy to build their economy and cuts US off then the SHTF!
Also noted that the slope of the current period is similar to that of WWII, guess we are fighting 3 different wars now (but how would it be funded if it become the kind of scale WWII was?)
<< <i>The outrageous pensions "promises" made by local goverments to employees are ......... Contrary to what the news media puts out, it is as much as looking in the rear view mirror while driving down the road. There are no promises. Pension systems are funded for and by workers and local gov over the time of their employment. Pensions systems are seperate from local goverment and the local goverments don't own them. They stand alone. Funding for current employees have now become a problem. There are no promises! >>
A pension is a promise by the employer for income after retirement. State, county and local pension promises are generally funded by small employee contributions and primarily with gains on investments of the pension fund. When fund investments go south, as they did with Walls Streets criminal behavior that surfaced in 2008, the the state, county and local governments (taxpayers) have to honor the retirement promise. Google CALPERS for a prime example of the mess. Public union employees, who are now facing the anger of taxpayers (and their elected officials) who do not want to pay the retirement cost, should really be focusing on the one's who stole from them - Wall Street. Part of the blame falls on state, county and local politicians who made outrageous pension promises just to get the public employee union endorsement/vote.
Wall Street screwed school teachers, and because the taxpayer doesn't want to bailout the failing pension fund with higher taxes, the taxpayer instantly becomes the bad guy. It's just another bailout being forced on the taxpayers who are finally saying "enuff!"
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
<< <i>
<< <i>The outrageous pensions "promises" made by local goverments to employees are ......... Contrary to what the news media puts out, it is as much as looking in the rear view mirror while driving down the road. There are no promises. Pension systems are funded for and by workers and local gov over the time of their employment. Pensions systems are seperate from local goverment and the local goverments don't own them. They stand alone. Funding for current employees have now become a problem. There are no promises! >>
A pension is a promise by the employer for income after retirement. State, county and local pension promises are generally funded by small employee contributions and primarily with gains on investments of the pension fund. When fund investments go south, as they did with Walls Streets criminal behavior that surfaced in 2008, the the state, county and local governments (taxpayers) have to honor the retirement promise. Google CALPERS for a prime example of the mess. Public union employees, who are now facing the anger of taxpayers (and their elected officials) who do not want to pay the retirement cost, should really be focusing on the one's who stole from them - Wall Street. Part of the blame falls on state, county and local politicians who made outrageous pension promises just to get the public employee union endorsement/vote.
Wall Street screwed school teachers, and because the taxpayer doesn't want to bailout the failing pension fund with higher taxes, the taxpayer instantly becomes the bad guy. It's just another bailout being forced on the taxpayers who are finally saying "enuff!" >>
"Small employee contributions"? I pay 9.125% of the GROSS of every single check I receive towards my pension. In an era where most Americans save less than 3% of their TAKEHOME towards retirement, im forced to contribute almost 10% of my pre-tax income. Now im the badguy because after 30 years of putting away 5-7 times more than the average person, i'll have a comfortable retirement? How did THAT happen?
Keep pointing fingers & bit<hing nothing gets done! Rinse ring repeat ~LaLaLaLa
Box of 20
<< <i>"Small employee contributions"? I pay 9.125% of the GROSS of every single check I receive towards my pension. In an era where most Americans save less than 3% of their TAKEHOME towards retirement, im forced to contribute almost 10% of my pre-tax income. Now im the badguy because after 30 years of putting away 5-7 times more than the average person, i'll have a comfortable retirement? How did THAT happen?
You're only the bad guy if you expect taxpayers to foot the rest of your retirement bill. At least you're paying yourself. Everyone is forced to pay into a "retirement" plan of some kind. Less than 10% is small. I pay self-employment taxes of 15.3% that go to social security and medicare and can only hope the ponzi is still in place when it's my turn to get a check in the mailbox.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
How much is the total contribution at the end of the day, compared to the total benefit? That would be a reasonable question. A contribution rate of 9.125% doesn't mean much if the benefit amounts to 25% or 35% of someone's total income over his career. That's the real question as far as taxpayer funding is concerned. If anyone wants to throw their plan up for scrutiny, I'm sure we could all chime in and debate whether anyone is being overcompensated or not.
For the record, I have no retirement unless I pay 100% of it, and all I'll receive is how much it's worth when I retire. No guarantees.
I knew it would happen.