~the Official, perpetual, "It's kinda SHTF but the US Dollar hasn't collaped yet" thead~
Baley
Posts: 22,661 ✭✭✭✭✭
So, as of today, there's food and goods on the store shelves, fuel at the gas stations, the power and water are on at home, the roads and schools and markets are open, and workers get paid in US dollars, and people and merchants accept them as payment for goods and services. (and it doesn't take a wheelbarrow full of cash to buy groceries)
Let's keep each other posted if any of this changes...
Let's keep each other posted if any of this changes...
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
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USDX = 75.63
Gold = $1,433.90
Silver = $37.44
I knew it would happen.
And most of us should not even be concerned with such a scenerio, as most will be dead. Many people think they are prepared, but they not. Even if you have 20 guns and a flame thrower, could you stop 200 people from advancing. Even if you have 2000 ounces of gold, what would you do if your neighbor doesnt want to sell you a side of beef? Even if you live on a farm, how will you heat your house in the winter or operate your tractor if you can not procure diesel fuel? You see, these scenerios are so far fetched, that they in all probablity will not occur. So why worry about it?
People have lived in much worse times than we will ever see---unless a comet hits us--and humankind has emerged more prosperous than before.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Radiation detected along the west coast from Japans nuke issues caused by that 7.0 quake
U.S. insolvent
Food prices at all time highs coupled with extremely high gas prices
US Military action in all corners of the globe (some legal, some illegal)
Houses being defaulted on
Banks closing
How do you define SHTF?
<< <i>So, as of today, there's food on the grocery store shelves, fuel at the gas stations, the power and water are on at home, the schools and churches and all the stores are open, and we both get paid in US dollars, and people an merchants accept them as payment.
Let's keep each other posted if any of this changes. >>
Pennsylvania calling - situation stable.
I'd have more details if I wasn't so busy taking profits from silver today.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
<< <i>A 6.8-7.0 quake just rocked Burma area
Radiation detected along the west coast from Japans nuke issues caused by that 7.0 quake
U.S. insolvent
Food prices at all time highs coupled with extremely high gas prices
US Military action in all corners of the globe (some legal, some illegal)
Houses being defaulted on
Banks closing
How do you define SHTF? >>
What you wrote has happened continously since 1945. And way before that if you exclude the radiation thing. And I disagree with the USA being insolvent. The USA is worth $100 of trillions--How much you think we could get for that little island called Manhattan, or that big cold block of land called Alaska? How much would China pay for Kansas so they could feed all their people?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Suttle unrolls toilet paper tax
I provided a few definitions in the OP, but am open to others. Maybe we all have different definitions of Shiznit and Fans..
Personally, I will start to get worried if I notice changes in my corner of the world that are apparent even without looking at the TV, computer, or newspaper.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Nobody is prepared for the worst case scenario if it all comes crashing down, and I mean no one and I mean all of it. If you have a big stash of silver or gold and you're dependent on selling/trading said silver or gold for necessities to survive for any length of time after about a month, you are not prepared.
On the other hand, other than gas going up a little and some groceries rising in price from time to time, everything is looking pretty good where I live. I'm with Baley.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
Box of 20
<< <i>could you stop 200 people from advancing. >>
Doh! Of course..
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>IMO, SHTF when Mel Gibson rides a motorbike. Even the Great Depression was not a SHTF scenerio.
And most of us should not even be concerned with such a scenerio, as most will be dead. Many people think they are prepared, but they not. Even if you have 20 guns and a flame thrower, could you stop 200 people from advancing. Even if you have 2000 ounces of gold, what would you do if your neighbor doesnt want to sell you a side of beef? Even if you live on a farm, how will you heat your house in the winter or operate your tractor if you can not procure diesel fuel? You see, these scenerios are so far fetched, that they in all probablity will not occur. So why worry about it?
People have lived in much worse times than we will ever see---unless a comet hits us--and humankind has emerged more prosperous than before. >>
Completely agree. Now this is the definition of a shtf scenario. When too many people descend on your home to take what's yours regardless of how much ammo you have, then the S has hit the Fan. The only survivors will be those in organized gangs and hoards who are doing the descending "unto others." But eventually even the hoards will turn on themselves.
Who wants to live another day in such a scenario as you huddle in your house waiting to be descended upon?
But...with the intial word of a bad scenario coming at us....those store shelves will be empty within 24 hrs. If you're reading about it here, it's way too late to stock up.
roadrunner
<< <i>Personally, I will start to get worried if I notice changes in my corner of the world that are apparent even without looking at the TV, computer, or newspaper. >>
If you wait until your corner of the world is affected, then it's too late.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
<< <i>
<< <i>could you stop 200 people from advancing. >>
Doh! Of course..
Not with that antique...what you're gonna do after your clip of 30 runs out? By the time you get it reloaded, you'd be meeting your maker.
<< <i>
<< <i>IMO, SHTF when Mel Gibson rides a motorbike. Even the Great Depression was not a SHTF scenerio.
And most of us should not even be concerned with such a scenerio, as most will be dead. Many people think they are prepared, but they not. Even if you have 20 guns and a flame thrower, could you stop 200 people from advancing. Even if you have 2000 ounces of gold, what would you do if your neighbor doesnt want to sell you a side of beef? Even if you live on a farm, how will you heat your house in the winter or operate your tractor if you can not procure diesel fuel? You see, these scenerios are so far fetched, that they in all probablity will not occur. So why worry about it?
People have lived in much worse times than we will ever see---unless a comet hits us--and humankind has emerged more prosperous than before. >>
Completely agree. Now this is the definition of a shtf scenario. When too many people descend on your home to take what's yours regardless of how much ammo you have, then the S has hit the Fan. The only survivors will be those in organized gangs and hoards who are doing the descending "unto others." But eventually even the hoards will turn on themselves.
Who wants to live another day in such a scenario as you huddle in your house waiting to be descended upon?
But...with the intial word of a bad scenario coming at us....those store shelves will be empty within 24 hrs. If you're reading about it here, it's way too late to stock up.
roadrunner >>
Who would these people doing the descending be then ? Wouldn't it be the natural thing for neighbors to band together and repel them or does that make too much sense ? The worlds seen too many mad max movies.
<< <i>...what you're gonna do after your clip of 30 runs out? >>
I don't see any "clips" in that pic, but I do see one hell of a drum magazine.
<< <i>what you're gonna do after your clip of 30 runs out? >>
I'd explain but your question shows that you wouldn't understand the answer.
<< <i>My gold or silver is not for the SHTF scenario. Just for a hedge against the ever eroding dollar. >>
However, my 1,153 40% & 90% JFKs are for the "big one."
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
<< <i>cool... I didn't know the US Government owned Alaska, Manhattan, and Kansas! Then by all means sell one or more of them! With less outstanding debt, the confidence in the dollar will skyrocket, and prosperity will blossom for all! >>
The US Govt can own anything it wants. Emminent domain. But to make it easier to understand, how much is the oil in the Arctic Natl WildlLife Refuge, or the freshwater in the Everglades worth to China? Im sure they'd like to have both and are owned by the USA.
In 1941 the G told Boeing they were no longer making civilian aircraft and would now be making fighter planes. Same deal for General Motors. If you dont like, too bad.
In a SHTF scenerio, those in power in the US would do whatever it took to ensure THEIR survival, even if it meant selling YOUR home. Could you protect it?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I probably have seen too many Mad Max movies....lol.
But if your neighbors weren't as prepared as you were, are you ready to share your 6-12 month supply of food, water, fuel, and/or ammo to get them all through a week or two? If so, then you're in a shtf scenario in week 2. If not, you're in a shtf scenario on day 1. I don't think most neighbors these days are as friendly as you see them on the Waltons or Dukes of Hazzard or even in Mayberry. My lakeside community has about 200 homes within a half mile radius. I certainly don't know the majority of them as the only time you might run into anyone is walking on a weekend. We have plenty of water, but probably not much in the way of food, fuel, or even ammo. If someone's kids are hungry, they're going to do what they have to in order to feed them.
roadrunner
<< <i>Who would these people doing the descending be then ? Wouldn't it be the natural thing for neighbors to band together and repel them or does that make too much sense ? The worlds seen too many mad max movies >>
How you gonna repel if you're not prepared to repel? Yelling at them probably won't do the trick.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
We've always farmed , so what exactly would you have us do ? Id imagine this scenario is repeated widely throughout the US , so while the innner cities may experience problems i don't forsee an invasion of cityslickers anytime soon.Sure the rural areas crime might increase as the city thugs seek richer pickings but getting out of here is another whole new ball game.
Every day there are people under water on their homes, or whose two-paychecks-from-homelessness has become just homeless. Every day there are healthy 50-year old fathers of 3 who have a heart attack or stroke and can't work. Every day the plant that built the town closes somewhere. Every day the insurance covers the fire damage, but not the 6 months of lost revenue and income.
Or a nasty divorce makes the S hit the fan.
Or the newest round of budget cuts makes the S hit the fan.
And every day there are people who defiantly bluster that the dollar hasn't collapsed, when it has lost 50% of its value in their own lifetime (if the roof falls over 50% of your house, has it not collapsed?).
And every day those same people proclaim gold and silver are foolish investments, when what could easily be bought for $275 10 years ago could now be sold not for 40% or 50% more, but rather 400% or 500%.
And if any of those people had prepared for the inevitable S hitting the fan, by insuring their homes, businesses, and families correctly, by taking good physical care of themselves, by living within their means, and by simply allocating a small portion of their savings to precious metals, then they wouldn't even stop to think that "but for the grace of god go they". Because the S would never have hit the fan for them.
--Severian the Lame
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Take cable away and there would be rioting in the streets. That's when you should be worried. Give the people cable and sing them a lullaby or let them buy from Home Shopping and there will be peace in the valley. Numb is good for the masses.
Some may argue that the dollar has already collapsed albeit via a slow drip over the past 80 years or so losing 95% of it's purchasing power. No one notices when it's done over time. Drip, drip, drip
It is what it is.
I'm not a buyer of a TSHTF scenerio ever happening. I hope I'm right. I'm prepared for one though I THINK, but I doubt I will have thought of everything as there is no way to know for sure what shape or form SHTF will come in. My advise, enjoy life, kiss your kids, pet your wife and take the dog to a lot of dinners and movies and tell those that you cherish, " I love you"...........often. Hope for the best and prepare yourself and your family for rough times. There is no defense for harriers so why worry about it.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>SHTF in America= no cable
Take cable away and there would be rioting in the streets. That's when you should be worried. Give the people cable and sing them a lullaby or let them buy from Home Shopping and there will be peace in the valley. Numb is good for the masses.
MJ >>
TV is the opiate of the masses, to paraphrase the capitalist critic.
I subscribe to the SHTF scenario, but agree that regardless we must love much and fret not.
<< <i>pet your wife and take the dog to a lot of dinners and movies >>
And you're still married?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
<< <i>pet your wife and take the dog to a lot of dinners and movies >>
And you're still married?
I'm not and it's probably obvious why now. I always seemed to have got that part confused. arrghhhhh. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>SHTF in America= no cable
Take cable away and there would be rioting in the streets. That's when you should be worried. Give the people cable and sing them a lullaby or let them buy from Home Shopping and there will be peace in the valley. Numb is good for the masses. >>
Sad, but true.
Personally I think TS(will)HTF once inflation really takes off and people start to see it for what it really is. This will be when an average salary no longer affords the comforts of a new big screen tv/furniture/car etc every few years.
Yes i agree. They will do whatever is necessary to stay in power even throwing out the constitution but only if the Armed Forces backs them up. They may not.
Box of 20
Roger, willco. Over, and out.
USDX = 75.63
Gold = $1,433.90
Silver = $37.44
Alright, great second post. These numbers must be one way to determine if and to what extent the excrement has hit the impeller?
So, what are those numbers for today (or yesterday?)
What numbers for those measures would mean that TSHTF (and I mean totally, not "some people are hurtin", not "we have some price inflation" but total COLLAPSE?)
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Good morning everyone! If you're reading this you still have electricity to your home
Yep and you will always be right as long as we do. The instant that we don't in a SHTF scenario no one will be able to tell you, we told you so
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
unless the site or the post is deleted for some other reason, I'd bet this thread will outlive all of us!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
These numbers must be one way to determine if and to what extent the excrement has hit the impeller?
USDX = impossible to guage, because the baseline is established from currencies that are fiat too.
Gold = rate of change = 40%/year, price indeterminate & negotiable
Silver = $37.44 = rate of change = 40%/year, price indeterminate & negotiable
<or>
New Currency declared.
Your choice - it's an "either / or".
I knew it would happen.
the "prices" for metals (and other goods, we presume) are changing very fast, unpredictably, and from place to place and time to time, as measured in the US Dollar and other fiat currencies.
and/or
the current "dollar" is extinct, retired, whatever, and a "new Unit" is instituted throughout the land.
Yes, that would be very disconcerting. We'll see if or when such events transpire. We are assuming in this case, the internet still works and we'll be able to discuss it?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
<< <i>Good morning everyone! If you're reading this you still have electricity to your home
Yep and you will always be right as long as we do. The instant that we don't in a SHTF scenario no one will be able to tell you, we told you so
MJ >>
Sounds strangely familiar -- great minds think alike?
12th post down, page 1
Glad to see the discussion continue, even if on another thread. Will copy and paste over to the other and personalize it for my times when needing encouragement...
Or two dummies
For the record I'm not a SHTF subscriber in the Mad Maxx sort of way. I would prefer to hear Baley babble on forever then then to have harriers and zombies nipping at my heels. Zombies scare the crap out of me. I will be whipping hunks of gold and silver at them to make my getaway. I believe I can out out run zombies as they are sort of slow. I just need to remember not to look back while I'm running. That always seems to be the downfall of many in the movies as they trip over an old tree root or beer bottle.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i><Sounds strangely familiar -- great minds think alike?>
Or two dummies
For the record I'm not a SHTF subscriber in the Mad Maxx sort of way. I would prefer to hear Baley babble on forever then then to have harriers and zombies nipping at my heels. Zombies scare the crao out of me. I will be whipping hunks of gold and silver at them to make my getaway. I believe I can out out run zombies as they are sort of slow. I just need to remember not to look back while I'm running. That always seems to be the downfall of many in the movies as they trip over an old tree root or beer bottle.
MJ >>
I think we should change the name of the SHTF scenario, to the "when Zombies rule" scenario, it has a certain Je ne sais quoi
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I'm planning on a move to Baleyville. That's where I grew up. I wanna go back, even if just for an occasional visit. >>
That is the county seat of Utopia. Me too...............MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>...I would prefer to hear Baley babble on forever then then to have harriers and zombies nipping at my heels. Zombies scare the crap out of me. I will be whipping hunks of gold and silver at them to make my getaway. I believe I can out out run zombies as they are sort of slow. I just need to remember not to look back while I'm running. That always seems to be the downfall of many in the movies as they trip over an old tree root or beer bottle.
MJ >>
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Paying for my lunch today, when given the choice of a crispy $10 Federal Reserve Note or an AU 1962 Franklin half, the cashier chose the $10 bill as payment for my sandwich, chips, and soda.
Everyone else pay for items with FRNs recently, or have any of you been bartering silver and lead yet?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I knew it would happen.